I've already heard it as the "f-word" above the four letter "f-word" ☺☺☺☺ in some circles. It's not that I think it's the "new" ☺☺☺☺☺☺, it's simply another ☺☺☺☺☺☺ and is quickly being treated as such. The biggest difference is that frat boys across the country will probably never be shamed into not calling each other ☺☺☺☺ because it does not have as long and as sordid a history.
You can't seriously hope to have an intelligent debate about obscenity on a censored forum? If the MtGS community at large are happy to introduce an uncensored sub-forum (with all appropriate "I agree not to complain about language" boxes to tick) then this can go somewhere but as far as I see it you can't debate something without identifying explicitly ->
I agree. As insulting as this forums policy is, there really is no practical way to have this debate with it in effect.
It seems you both ascertained the content of the conversation despite the censors, so the assumption that this conversation cannot happen with censors is suspect.
What would be so impractical about minimization of risk in the face of uncertainty?
This whole question ignores reality. Not only are cancer risks all around us with or without our involvement, people can choose to minimize their risk already.
There's also a delicate balance to consider. Take charred foods for example. Raw or undercooked food has its own problems. Or how about limiting exposure to the sun which is needed for vitamin D.
Are we so afraid to compromise the sanctity of science that we force ourselves to act in absolutes even when none are available?
This fake balance attitude is inhumane.
[quote]So, having no concern, and hiking on Yucca Mountain, would be better?
This is not what I said. What I said is that being a "canceraphobe" in the same manner of a "germaphobe" can increase your cancer risk to a magnitude greater than your cancer-risk-lowering measures lowered your cancer risk.
Obviously, there are flat out stupid things you could do as well. I wouldn't roll around in Asbestos either. If I lived in a home with Asbestos I would also obviously fix that.
How has science made our society so fatalistic?
I would love for you to show that society is more fatalistic than before. Especially since it'd be pretty easy to say it's not - such as pointing to hell and brimstone religious fervor that held society in the belief pattern that doing anything outside of what they "should" would result in eternal damnation.
If you could overcome that, then you would have to point out how science has made people fatalistic. To show that science has influenced people into believing they cannot do anything to change their lot in life would be impossible. Hell, you couldn't be saying that there are cancer risk factors to be avoided.
-----
In the end, you are saying we should ban chemicals, and you have cited some industries and some agriculture as the users and distributors of these evil chemicals that causes cancer in our friends and neighbors with no value to society.
This premise is terrible to begin with. The word "chemicals" is bandied around too freely just like "organic" or "green" is. To further exaggerate the fear-mongering involved in your premise, you mitigate the prevalence of these chemicals in modern society and claim they have no value.
Facts of life: living in a bubble may or may not reduce your cancer risk.
In all seriousness, a carcinogen's effect is different for each individual. Some people can smoke a pack a day for 60+ years before dying from something not so directly linked to smoking, and some people die of lung cancer at 43 from minimal second and third hand exposure. I'm not saying there are not ways to generally reduce your cancer risk, but stressing about could be as much of a contributing factor as your actual exposure to cancer causing agents.
I will say that it's a great idea to try and protect children from exposure since it will greatly effect them more, and the harm doesn't go away easily if at all.
CARDNAME
Legendary Land [R]
~ enters the battlefield tapped. t: Add 1 to your mana pool. RR: Choose an opponent. ~ becomes a red and green Avatar with "This creature's power and toughness is equal to the number of tapped lands the chosen player controls" until end of turn. It's still a land.
CARDNAME
Legendary Land - Mountain [R] 7R,T: ~ deals damage equal to the number of mountains you control to target player. Then exile ~.
I make cases when I can, I guess I just haven't really done any this game.
Besides for that I can confirm the fact that I still have the ability to make people unlynchable, which personally I cannot see being on mafia ever.
Can you make yourself unlynchable?
Nope
Your role could easily be scum, in fact A_E had a similar pardon ability in F451 (just a quick example). If you had pardoned say... D_V's wagon you would obviously be scum.
@shibui: Lynching AI won't confirm his results - one of the players he investigated could still be the godfather. It'll only confirm that he really was a cop.
Yes, well it would still give us a lot of information that we could use. We'll have Cyouni, PoD, and Guardman's investigation results. We'll have the truth serum result on you. We have the scoria virus on Niv and someone else. I beleive PM's neutral claim, so there's that as well.
I worry about our numbers at this point, which is why I want a NL. But I'd say AI is 85% likely the last scum, so if we want to lynch Cyouni for info/Guardman, I would go along with that too.
I would prefer getting a result on someone AI has not investigated first. I'm also not worried about numbers yet.
9 alive right now -> lynch leaves 8 alive
1 death overnight -> 7 alive in the morning.
AI's lynch -> 6 alive, or game over.
1 death overnight -> 5 alive in the morning, maybe 4 if PM leaves the game.
If you are that worried, then PM should simply get the Scoria Virus back and hold onto it to win with the town and that would be the backup plan to two scum left alive.
That said, the NKs will be very telling at this point. Obviously they're not killing AI since a few days ago the players started to go into the whole "if AI is still alive, he must be scum!" point pretty much giving the scum the direction to go.
That said, I'm still game for lynching Cyouni - his last post was all around bad. Blaming a lack of mass claim on the item he chose to repair is lame, and the last arguments about lynching AI is good for Guardman and the town for revealing the information he gave as truthful, but if AI is scum then it's all out the window (assumption of two scum), and opening the "Guardman's second ability is scummy" window.
In fact, if that's the only way there won't be a no lynch, I will unvote, vote Cyouni. I really think Syrenz needs another set of eyes looking over his posts, but I'd rather we have an investigation result on PoD.
AlphaInsidious – Trevor Sartori OCCUPATION: Special Ambassador to the WTO COUNTRY: Italy, claimed after MMoD’s info ABILITIES: Political Connections – Passive/Day/Permanent - Learn alignment of someone he votes for during the day. Supervise – Targeting/Any/Permanent – Send name. First ability targeting them this period is countered. Can’t use in subsequent periods. ITEMS: n/a
Cyouni – Lucas Finch OCCUPATION: Pawn Shop Owner COUNTRY: USA ABILITIES: Repair – Active/Any/One-Shot – Repairs a discarded item. ITEMS: PDA – Dissemination – Active/Any/Permanent – Can send up to a 100 word message that is posted on a local message board anonymously. At the end of the period it was used a random message another player posted on the board is returned. Suit of Armour – Ancient Protection – Active/Day/Permanent – Protection from daykills. Amphetamines – Spike the Punch – Passive/Night/Permanent – Alows a player to post during the night, doesn’t count as night action. Syrenge of Adrenaline – Acceleration – Active/Night/One-Shot – Allows a player to do two actions, doesn’t count as an action, but causes the target to be venerable to kills. STATIC EFFECT: Cannot use items.
Guardman – Lodewijk Dutroux OCCUPATION: Great Overseer of the Order of Epigenitus COUNTRY: USA ABILITIES: Indoctrination – Active/Night/Permanent – We know what this does. Tribute to Overlords – Passive/Any/Permanent – This is the ability to absorb the passive abilities from the lynched indoctrinated people. ITEMS: n/a
Niv – Jorge Sur OCCUPATION: Mara Salvatrucha “Soldier” COUNTRY: El Salvador ABILITIES: n/a ITEMS: Shotgun – The Gun – Passive/Any/One-Shot* – A non-kill ability that targets him has to have a different target. *originally permanent. Shotgun – The Shell – Targeting/Any/One-Shot – Daykill.
Pale Mage – Asher Golta OCCUPATION: Terra Group VP, Int’l Division COUNTRY: Great Britain ABILITIES: n/a ITEMS: Scoria Virus (since passed, with Niv) – System Error – Passive/Any/Permanent – Abilities and items you have don’t work.
Penguin of Death – Doctor Samir Hasan OCCUPATION: Director General of the World Health Organization COUNTRY: Lebanon ABILITIES: Aquire Supplies – Active/Night/Permanent – Gets a point, when he has three points he gets an item (emergency supplies). ITEMS: Emergency Supplies – Targeting/Any/Permanent – Day or night doc protect. Discard if a player is targeted by a kill. If used by an untrained doctor, target dies after four periods.
shibui – Drew Handler OCCUPATION: AV Technician COUNTRY: Canada ABILITIES: Reverse Engineer – Finds out the information relating to a discarded item ITEMS: PDA – Dissemination – Active/Any/Permanent – Can send up to a 100 word message that is posted on a local message board anonymously. At the end of the period it was used a random message another player posted on the board is returned.
Syrenz – Katrien Darko OCCUPATION: Chairwoman of the General Council COUNTRY: Belgium ABILITIES: Exculpate – Active/Day/Permanent – Makes people unlychable Chairwoman’s Fiat – Passive/Day/Permanent – Makes people take one less vote to be lynched. ITEMS: n/a
zindabad – Harry Milton OCCUPATION: FBI Los Angeles Counterintelligence COUNTRY: USA ABILITIES: Override – Post Action/Day/One-shot – Any vote count corrections take place. ??? – Passive/???/??? – ??? ITEMS: Cell Phone – Passive/Any/Permanent – Chat with people with a cell phone.
It seems you both ascertained the content of the conversation despite the censors, so the assumption that this conversation cannot happen with censors is suspect.
There's also a delicate balance to consider. Take charred foods for example. Raw or undercooked food has its own problems. Or how about limiting exposure to the sun which is needed for vitamin D.
This is not what I said. What I said is that being a "canceraphobe" in the same manner of a "germaphobe" can increase your cancer risk to a magnitude greater than your cancer-risk-lowering measures lowered your cancer risk.
Obviously, there are flat out stupid things you could do as well. I wouldn't roll around in Asbestos either. If I lived in a home with Asbestos I would also obviously fix that.
I would love for you to show that society is more fatalistic than before. Especially since it'd be pretty easy to say it's not - such as pointing to hell and brimstone religious fervor that held society in the belief pattern that doing anything outside of what they "should" would result in eternal damnation.
If you could overcome that, then you would have to point out how science has made people fatalistic. To show that science has influenced people into believing they cannot do anything to change their lot in life would be impossible. Hell, you couldn't be saying that there are cancer risk factors to be avoided.
-----
In the end, you are saying we should ban chemicals, and you have cited some industries and some agriculture as the users and distributors of these evil chemicals that causes cancer in our friends and neighbors with no value to society.
This premise is terrible to begin with. The word "chemicals" is bandied around too freely just like "organic" or "green" is. To further exaggerate the fear-mongering involved in your premise, you mitigate the prevalence of these chemicals in modern society and claim they have no value.
In all seriousness, a carcinogen's effect is different for each individual. Some people can smoke a pack a day for 60+ years before dying from something not so directly linked to smoking, and some people die of lung cancer at 43 from minimal second and third hand exposure. I'm not saying there are not ways to generally reduce your cancer risk, but stressing about could be as much of a contributing factor as your actual exposure to cancer causing agents.
I will say that it's a great idea to try and protect children from exposure since it will greatly effect them more, and the harm doesn't go away easily if at all.
Doesn't make it right.
CARDNAME
Legendary Land [R]
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
t: Add 1 to your mana pool.
RR: Choose an opponent. ~ becomes a red and green Avatar with "This creature's power and toughness is equal to the number of tapped lands the chosen player controls" until end of turn. It's still a land.
CARDNAME
Legendary Land - Mountain [R]
7R,T: ~ deals damage equal to the number of mountains you control to target player. Then exile ~.
Yes, well it would still give us a lot of information that we could use. We'll have Cyouni, PoD, and Guardman's investigation results. We'll have the truth serum result on you. We have the scoria virus on Niv and someone else. I beleive PM's neutral claim, so there's that as well.
I would prefer getting a result on someone AI has not investigated first. I'm also not worried about numbers yet.
9 alive right now -> lynch leaves 8 alive
1 death overnight -> 7 alive in the morning.
AI's lynch -> 6 alive, or game over.
1 death overnight -> 5 alive in the morning, maybe 4 if PM leaves the game.
If you are that worried, then PM should simply get the Scoria Virus back and hold onto it to win with the town and that would be the backup plan to two scum left alive.
That said, the NKs will be very telling at this point. Obviously they're not killing AI since a few days ago the players started to go into the whole "if AI is still alive, he must be scum!" point pretty much giving the scum the direction to go.
That said, I'm still game for lynching Cyouni - his last post was all around bad. Blaming a lack of mass claim on the item he chose to repair is lame, and the last arguments about lynching AI is good for Guardman and the town for revealing the information he gave as truthful, but if AI is scum then it's all out the window (assumption of two scum), and opening the "Guardman's second ability is scummy" window.
In fact, if that's the only way there won't be a no lynch, I will unvote, vote Cyouni. I really think Syrenz needs another set of eyes looking over his posts, but I'd rather we have an investigation result on PoD.
OCCUPATION: Special Ambassador to the WTO
COUNTRY: Italy, claimed after MMoD’s info
ABILITIES:
Political Connections – Passive/Day/Permanent - Learn alignment of someone he votes for during the day.
Supervise – Targeting/Any/Permanent – Send name. First ability targeting them this period is countered. Can’t use in subsequent periods.
ITEMS:
n/a
Cyouni – Lucas Finch
OCCUPATION: Pawn Shop Owner
COUNTRY: USA
ABILITIES:
Repair – Active/Any/One-Shot – Repairs a discarded item.
ITEMS:
PDA – Dissemination – Active/Any/Permanent – Can send up to a 100 word message that is posted on a local message board anonymously. At the end of the period it was used a random message another player posted on the board is returned.
Suit of Armour – Ancient Protection – Active/Day/Permanent – Protection from daykills.
Amphetamines – Spike the Punch – Passive/Night/Permanent – Alows a player to post during the night, doesn’t count as night action.
Syrenge of Adrenaline – Acceleration – Active/Night/One-Shot – Allows a player to do two actions, doesn’t count as an action, but causes the target to be venerable to kills.
STATIC EFFECT: Cannot use items.
Guardman – Lodewijk Dutroux
OCCUPATION: Great Overseer of the Order of Epigenitus
COUNTRY: USA
ABILITIES:
Indoctrination – Active/Night/Permanent – We know what this does.
Tribute to Overlords – Passive/Any/Permanent – This is the ability to absorb the passive abilities from the lynched indoctrinated people.
ITEMS:
n/a
Niv – Jorge Sur
OCCUPATION: Mara Salvatrucha “Soldier”
COUNTRY: El Salvador
ABILITIES:
n/a
ITEMS:
Shotgun – The Gun – Passive/Any/One-Shot* – A non-kill ability that targets him has to have a different target. *originally permanent.
Shotgun – The Shell – Targeting/Any/One-Shot – Daykill.
Pale Mage – Asher Golta
OCCUPATION: Terra Group VP, Int’l Division
COUNTRY: Great Britain
ABILITIES:
n/a
ITEMS:
Scoria Virus (since passed, with Niv) – System Error – Passive/Any/Permanent – Abilities and items you have don’t work.
Penguin of Death – Doctor Samir Hasan
OCCUPATION: Director General of the World Health Organization
COUNTRY: Lebanon
ABILITIES:
Aquire Supplies – Active/Night/Permanent – Gets a point, when he has three points he gets an item (emergency supplies).
ITEMS:
Emergency Supplies – Targeting/Any/Permanent – Day or night doc protect. Discard if a player is targeted by a kill. If used by an untrained doctor, target dies after four periods.
shibui – Drew Handler
OCCUPATION: AV Technician
COUNTRY: Canada
ABILITIES:
Reverse Engineer – Finds out the information relating to a discarded item
ITEMS:
PDA – Dissemination – Active/Any/Permanent – Can send up to a 100 word message that is posted on a local message board anonymously. At the end of the period it was used a random message another player posted on the board is returned.
Syrenz – Katrien Darko
OCCUPATION: Chairwoman of the General Council
COUNTRY: Belgium
ABILITIES:
Exculpate – Active/Day/Permanent – Makes people unlychable
Chairwoman’s Fiat – Passive/Day/Permanent – Makes people take one less vote to be lynched.
ITEMS:
n/a
zindabad – Harry Milton
OCCUPATION: FBI Los Angeles Counterintelligence
COUNTRY: USA
ABILITIES:
Override – Post Action/Day/One-shot – Any vote count corrections take place.
??? – Passive/???/??? – ???
ITEMS:
Cell Phone – Passive/Any/Permanent – Chat with people with a cell phone.