Also does anyone know what vensers are for, Im still confused about them.
vensers are good against the mirror since they can bounce hypergenesis to your opponents hand and they are also good against dark depths since they can bounce marit lage... Cant think of any other matchup where he is relevant
Against dark depth the only hope game 1 is to putrefy their chalice of the void and get an iona naming black as soon as possible... game 1 is really tough otherwise cuz they can counter our hypergenesis with muddle the mixture, if they get marit lage out its pretty much over for the first game. Game 2 we bring in ingot chewer, wipe away and venser... even if they get marit lage we can answer with bounce
ok, in first place caldera hellion and reya in this deck are just dumb, please get real and propose ideas that might be beneficial for the deck. Think about the metagame and what changes could make the deck better against tier 1 decks, a good way to do this is by analizing the decks from PT austin and adjusting our list to improve our odds against the current metagame.
The problem with pillar of the paruns is that if the game gets prolonged to the point where you might have to hardcast your big creatures pillar of the paruns will totally screw you over, plus it also cuts out the possibility of hardcasting sakashima and venser. This is very relevant in the mirror, since you will most likely have to hardcast creatures in game 2 or 3 due to the fact that hypergenesis is almost always sided out. It is also important against dark depths since you always want to be able to hardcast venser if marit lage is ever released.
have you tested it while using Sundering Titan? Just wondering if you ever had to blow up your own against Zoo.
Very good point thanks for noticing this, I havent playtested the deck yet since i am still trying to get the cards but now i realize that sundering titan could hurt us, but in that case the most it could kill is one of our shock lands given that there are only 4 in the deck and 1 forest... I think the risk is worth it since this deck doesnt really need more than 3 lands anyways, and the reward for playing sundering titan would def be way greater against zoo given that they would probably lose more lands.
Why do you think vexing shusher is necessary and what would you take out for it?
what do you guys think about cutting 3 thought for knowledge and replacing them for 2 Putrefy and leaving the other card out to make the deck an even 60. My reasoning behind this idea is that putrefy pretty much deals with all the problems this deck has (meddling mage, ethersworn canonist and chalice of the void), and it makes the dark depth matchup a lot easier. There should also be 1 more putrefy in the side and 2 ingot chewer in the side. Here's what im planning on building:
I think this land base is very consistent, and its good against blood moon, PTE and Ghost Quarter.
The only thing im not too sure about is the sideboard, I dunno if I need vexing shusher at all since I dont know if the metagame will shift to counter intensive... Ravenous trap is amazing against dredge. Sundering Titan is really good against zoo. Venser helps against dark depths. Fungal Reaches and Meddling mage help out against the mirror.
I was wondering if anyone saw this list, any inputs would be appreciated, I like the landbase a lot but would like to know what everyone thinks... ohh and the sideboard is also a bit iffy right now, any help would be awesome
what do you guys think about cutting 3 thought for knowledge and replacing them for 2 Putrefy and leaving the other card out to make the deck an even 60. My reasoning behind this idea is that putrefy pretty much deals with all the problems this deck has (meddling mage, ethersworn canonist and chalice of the void), and it makes the dark depth matchup a lot easier. There should also be 1 more putrefy in the side and 2 ingot chewer in the side. Here's what im planning on building:
I think this land base is very consistent, and its good against blood moon, PTE and Ghost Quarter.
The only thing im not too sure about is the sideboard, I dunno if I need vexing shusher at all since I dont know if the metagame will shift to counter intensive... Ravenous trap is amazing against dredge. Sundering Titan is really good against zoo. Venser helps against dark depths. Fungal Reaches and Meddling mage help out against the mirror.
I really dont understand why evangelos chose to play those storage lands... does anyone know? the only situation in which they could be good is if u get mana screw.
Most of the times it seems like these storage lands would cause color screw though, given that they can only add two colors.
Another change would be to take out 3thirst for knowledge to add 2 putrefy and cut the third one to make the list an even 60 rather than 61. Putrefy seems like the perfect choice for many reasons: it deals with any creature (baneslayer) and at the same time it gets rid of those annoying chalices.
I would also run 2 putrefy and 2 ingot chewer on the side.
i would try to add 3 dauntless escort since this card is really good when played with judgement day, i would also run bant charm instead of negate since its more flexible plus the metagame is going to be filled with aggro so you want spells that will be able to deal with that.
so heres what i would do
-4 kor hookmaster
-1 steward of valeron
-3 negate
-1 sleep
-2 island, since its the most splashed color
+3 rhox warmonk
+3 Dauntless escort
+3 Bant charm
+2 forest, since you really wanna get that first turn noble hierarch and its the color with most drops
I like the list but this deck def needs black for terminate and other kill spells such as deathmark... baneslayer angel is a card to worry about and shouldnt be forgotten, im working on a list and i will post it soon
Blightning is really useful vs Kithkin decks. Though 3 mana could be reserved for Fallout against it, every card on their hand counts. Less threats means more chances of going against it.
My problem with blightning and the reason for which I took it out is because I realized by the time i play it (assuming its played on turn 3) it doesnt really have an effect on the board, and its a whole turn I dedicate to it, meaning that all the threats that my opponent has dropped before the blightning resolves will keep on dealing massive damage to my life total (which is even worse if he goes first due to spectral procession and honor of pure)... even if I leave my opponent on top deck mode, it is irrelevant unless i can kill all his threats.
what do you think about adding black knight to the sideboard? although i dont think i can cast it consistently when i need it... or maybe shreikmaw could also be an alternative since it gives me a 2 for 1 late game and early game its also good, ideas?
ok i am having a really tough time at FNM's, everytime im about to make top 8 i get screwed over by kithkin and ive come to the conclussion that this deck probably cant beat kithkin here's my list
I basically side in my whole sideboard except for the anathemancer's, so thats 11 cards. I take out,
4 flame javelin: since im bringing in infest and 1 more fallout, it makes sense to take out the 3 drop that only kills one creature for the massive removals, infest gets rid of the forge tender as well.
4 demigod's: which are being replaced by the chaotic backlash
3 terminate: being replaced for deathmark since forge tender has pro red.
and the oher 2 cards left to bring in are 2 everlasting torment which are amazing in combination with volcanic fallout, shutsdown the activated ability of the forge tender, and stops the lifegain from ajani and/or knight of meadowgrain
The problem arises when i play my infest or fallout turn 3 when they have already played a turn one figure, turn two honor of pure and turn 3 wizened cenn... which is pretty much gg for me... i dunno whats the right way to beat this deck and im really annoyed by it, are there any changes that anyone could recommend and the right way to sideboard and play against it...
Id appreciate any help, I know there are only 2 weeks left until kithkin rotates out but i just wanna beat it at least once before it does, sort of a personal vendetta i have against it lol.
vensers are good against the mirror since they can bounce hypergenesis to your opponents hand and they are also good against dark depths since they can bounce marit lage... Cant think of any other matchup where he is relevant
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Fungal Reaches
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Creatures (23)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Progenitus
4 Angel of Despair
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Violent Outburst
2 Demonic Dread
4 Ardent Plea
3 Hypergenesis
3 Putrefy
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Meddling Mage
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Spitebellows
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Firespout
2 Wipe Away
Very good point thanks for noticing this, I havent playtested the deck yet since i am still trying to get the cards but now i realize that sundering titan could hurt us, but in that case the most it could kill is one of our shock lands given that there are only 4 in the deck and 1 forest... I think the risk is worth it since this deck doesnt really need more than 3 lands anyways, and the reward for playing sundering titan would def be way greater against zoo given that they would probably lose more lands.
Why do you think vexing shusher is necessary and what would you take out for it?
I was wondering if anyone saw this list, any inputs would be appreciated, I like the landbase a lot but would like to know what everyone thinks... ohh and the sideboard is also a bit iffy right now, any help would be awesome
4 Angel of Despair
4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Progenitus
2 Akroma Angel of Fury
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sakashima the Impostor
Spells
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
2 Demonic Dread
3 Hypergenesis
3 Firespout
2 Putrefy
1 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Fungal Reaches
1 Calciform Pools
1 Gemstone Caverns
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Meddling Mage
1 Putrefy
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Fungal Reaches
2 Sundering Titan
3 Ravenous Trap
I think this land base is very consistent, and its good against blood moon, PTE and Ghost Quarter.
The only thing im not too sure about is the sideboard, I dunno if I need vexing shusher at all since I dont know if the metagame will shift to counter intensive... Ravenous trap is amazing against dredge. Sundering Titan is really good against zoo. Venser helps against dark depths. Fungal Reaches and Meddling mage help out against the mirror.
Most of the times it seems like these storage lands would cause color screw though, given that they can only add two colors.
I would probably take out all 4 of the storage lands to add 3 pillar of the paruns and one forest due to ghost quarter and path to exile.
Another change would be to take out 3thirst for knowledge to add 2 putrefy and cut the third one to make the list an even 60 rather than 61. Putrefy seems like the perfect choice for many reasons: it deals with any creature (baneslayer) and at the same time it gets rid of those annoying chalices.
I would also run 2 putrefy and 2 ingot chewer on the side.
so heres what i would do
-4 kor hookmaster
-1 steward of valeron
-3 negate
-1 sleep
-2 island, since its the most splashed color
+3 rhox warmonk
+3 Dauntless escort
+3 Bant charm
+2 forest, since you really wanna get that first turn noble hierarch and its the color with most drops
My problem with blightning and the reason for which I took it out is because I realized by the time i play it (assuming its played on turn 3) it doesnt really have an effect on the board, and its a whole turn I dedicate to it, meaning that all the threats that my opponent has dropped before the blightning resolves will keep on dealing massive damage to my life total (which is even worse if he goes first due to spectral procession and honor of pure)... even if I leave my opponent on top deck mode, it is irrelevant unless i can kill all his threats.
what do you think about adding black knight to the sideboard? although i dont think i can cast it consistently when i need it... or maybe shreikmaw could also be an alternative since it gives me a 2 for 1 late game and early game its also good, ideas?
I basically side in my whole sideboard except for the anathemancer's, so thats 11 cards. I take out,
4 flame javelin: since im bringing in infest and 1 more fallout, it makes sense to take out the 3 drop that only kills one creature for the massive removals, infest gets rid of the forge tender as well.
4 demigod's: which are being replaced by the chaotic backlash
3 terminate: being replaced for deathmark since forge tender has pro red.
and the oher 2 cards left to bring in are 2 everlasting torment which are amazing in combination with volcanic fallout, shutsdown the activated ability of the forge tender, and stops the lifegain from ajani and/or knight of meadowgrain
The problem arises when i play my infest or fallout turn 3 when they have already played a turn one figure, turn two honor of pure and turn 3 wizened cenn... which is pretty much gg for me... i dunno whats the right way to beat this deck and im really annoyed by it, are there any changes that anyone could recommend and the right way to sideboard and play against it...
Id appreciate any help, I know there are only 2 weeks left until kithkin rotates out but i just wanna beat it at least once before it does, sort of a personal vendetta i have against it lol.