I agree with Chaos021 in regards to surgical not really being a good choice as a sideboard card in jund. My main issue with the card is that it requires some amount of setup to disrupt the combo decks, which makes it narrow. When I am playing jund I want to play cards that will allow me to increase percentages in more matchups, versatility is key.
Ha!! Yeah it was definitely Traitor of Ghet... these guys trying to make me look like a maniac haha I honestly didn't draw it the whole tournament, but the idea is that its there for the aggro matchups, ive tested it online and I have had good results with it
In my experience, 3 BBE was better bc I do not want to run 25 lands to support 4 of them since I flood wayyy too much when I do so. Also, lowering the probability of having Bob reveal a BBE is important. I decided to increase my removal count bc I kept losing to aggro decks on modo and also because Dallas meta usually has more aggro decks. Kitchen Finks main was a meta call to have an extra out main deck vs burn and other aggro decks, it can be swapped out for the 4th bbe if the meta turns into a midrange fest but at the moment i wouldnt dare... specially if storm and infect are real threats, these are matchups where we really dont want bbe
Agreed. I was testing against my buddy Ali Aintrazi, with the list he top 4ed the team open with (jeskai control) and I lost the majority of games, I tested sb games and I def improved my chances when I was able to resolve a blood moon, he runs search for azcanta so blood moon kept him from having the enchantment flip.
The scapeshift decks only have chandra and titan left, maybe baloth as win cons if you blood moon them... I have usually been able to beat those cards once they are locked out by blood moon.
In regards to Abrupt Decay: Spreading Seas, map were just an example of versatility... I could have mentioned any card with CC < 3 to make my point. It doesn't matter if these are not popular, in a modern tournament you will often play 10 different archetypes and its hard to be prepared for everything, which is why I prefer to run catchall cards such as decay, pulse, k command... I think you get where I'm getting at.
Jund can be built in so many different ways, my preference is to be as versatile as possible.
Jadine's analysis is pretty good, she points out several things I agree with. However, I disagree with a few others:
1. I never like to just concede matchups, or rather to ignore them. For instance, big mana decks... Through testing on mtgo I have found that these decks are still prevalent which is why I want a plan. Which leads into my second point.
2. Blood Moon. I love me some free wins. This card beats valakut all on its own and is helpful vs tron. I disagree when she says that fulminator is better since its good vs jeskai, but the thing is that blood moon is good there too!
3. Abrupt Decay. She is interested in lowering her curve and running 4 bolts. Therefore, cuts had to be made. I don't think 4 bolts is where I'd like to be and the reason is mainly Death Shadow, delve creatures and Thought Knot Seer. Decay sucks vs eldrazi but can still destroy expedition maps (when on the play) and random stuff like chalices, etc, but the reason why I like Decay is because it offers versatility. I want to be able to destroy Cranial Platings, or Death Shadow (withour fear of them holding up a one mana counter for it), Spreading Seas, etc etc
Been playing a good amount on modo, feeling pretty good about my chances for GP OKC... Been trying a list with Hazoret and Kitesail Freebooter (yes, Kitesail) and have 4-1'd three leagues, my losses have been to decks like UR through the breach and tron
Etched Champion is usually the reason I lose to affinity, been having a pretty bad run against affinity as of late. Heading into GP OKC I am definitely going to be ready for that matchup. In the main I am running a Grim Lavamancer and a Kalitas (which is not amazing but decent enough vs affinity if we can slow them enough, great vs ravager and races favorably). In the sb i plan on running the following options vs affinity: 1 damnation, 2 grudges, 1 kozileks return, 1 anger of the gods and 1 shatterstorm. I'd like to add another k return and cut anger just bc it is such a great answer for everything they have except ravager but its hard to justify when anger is so much better vs coco, humans, dredge and other aggro decks... so thats my conundrum at the moment
Hey didn't know you check in on this thread! Was a treat seeing you do that make-or-die play with Bob, choosing to terminate the Sculler instead of Flickerwisp. What was the thought process behind that decision?
Would love a deck tech - how instrumental has Hazoret been for you?
Anyway, best of luck
Basically I was at 4 life with Blood moon in play when i drew terminate, sculler had my damnation and flickerwisp was going to bring me down to 1 on its next attack. The decision was to either kill flickerwisp and hope i find an answer for my own Bob before it kills me, mind you my opponent is locked by my moon but he still has a swamp in play and could potentially draw a fatal push to kill my bob and start attacking w his sculler. I felt like my opponent still had live draws and i also knew that I had lots of turns where my own bob could kill me if i dont draw a removal spell for it. Therefore, I went for the high risk high reward play of killing sculler since that meant i had to only dodge one bob trigger as I was getting my damnation back to my hand but couldnt cast it the same turn due to my own moon. It ended up working out, I was very conscious that I needed to get lucky, but this involved getting lucky only once, the other option involved getting lucky potentially multiple times and that was my reasoning.
Hazoret was insane the whole tournament, I loved it. I just wish I would have played vs grixis DS a bit more. Hazy absolutely seals the game in that matchup, I didnt play against DS until day 2 when i was already dead for top 8. I did however play vs tron 4 times and went 2-2, the wins involved blood moon draws and the losses where those games that I didn't have the moons. Matchup is just so hard.
My buddy Michael Olson finished top 32, we had a pretty similar list. He decided to go against blood moon in favor of fulminator mage. But I convinced him into running a Hazoret and he told me that it was great for him. He had a split of 1 kalitas and 1 hazy, where I had 2 Hazorets. In retrospect, maybe I should have had that same split with Kalitas, since Kalitas is great vs matter reshaper and races tron pretty well, I just thought that DS was going to be more popular. But I was wrong, tron was everywhere!
I am not agreeing on Jund being on its death bed, but its certainly hard to win tournaments now. I play Jund every FNM still, I do also manage to have more wins than losses but ever so often I get paired against some kind of Big Mana deck which screws with my score and prevents me from winning the FNMs. I am always up in the better half of the participants but am struggling to reach to number 1. I feel there are just too many bad or hard matchups for Jund where we just have too many dead cards. We are the king of removal, but against all those Scapehisft, Tron or Control decks it feels at least a third of our deck is just dead. Sometimes more, sometimes less. So its definitely hard to pilot the deck and adjusting it to the meta when half of the meta just dodges most of our goodstuff cards.
My win % vs big mana decks has improved a ton with blood moon. Scapeshift is a cake walk once you slam the moon. Tron is the only matchup where they are still capable of winning through the blood moon, thanks to expedition map and having all is dust. Still don't really know how to improve that matchup, been trying several things but ive only managed to go 50/50 vs them.
I am currently working on tuning a Big Boros deck for GP Louisville and SCG Invitational in Indianapolis.
As soon as I have solved a few issues I will be posting my list.
I am thoroughly convinced that Burning Earth is not playable as it stands right now, and I am 100% that Ember Swallower is our beater to go on 4! He is nuts!
I am looking for a card that is good vs control, I like Possibility Storm but I feel very intimidated by Elspeth. The idea of having my opponent cast Jace AOT into Elspeth means trouble.
Magma Jet is a trap, don't play it. Shock is strictly better, we have Temple of Triumph anyways if you are in the market for Scry.
Yeah this vamp is the problem but you think in the 4 turn the other Player always gome 10 life if u draw nice hand.
When u down manabarbs u have all speel for 3 or less mana.
If the toher player play anithing 3 points for him nighthawk, etc.
Bloodghast Is the porblem
Rlly my meta is Vamp i use 3 dragon claw and the manabarbs. Why the Dragon? becuase i need time the other player always gain life if i gains life too i have more time for topdeck nice cards.
Cant really understand what your saying, if u could elaborate a little bit more on your reasoning for dragon's claw slot in the sb, ohh and good grammar would be nice as well.
I have come to the conclussion that the vamps matchup w RDW relies on luck for us to win, they have wayyy too much hate against us... hexmage first strike is really annoying, bloodghast just keeps coming back, tendrils sets us back way too much, etc etc But ever since i switched to play barely boros with day of judgment maindeck and this matchup has gotten a lot easier! once you wrath their board you just drop an ajani vengeant and its pretty much over, they cant come back from that on top of that you are burning with all the burn spells u draw... just something to think about, maybe barely boros is the way to go if we want to be able to beat vamps and kor firewalker
Tera targets 2 of opponent's Land and Oblivion Ring while Oblivion Ring targets Knight. Stack = Ardent Plea, destroy Land #1, destroy Land #2, Destroy Oblivion Ring, Return from Oblivion Ring effect and Exile effect from Oblivion Ring.
End result HyperGenesis player with Tera and one Elephant, while opposing player loses 2 land with Knight exiled and gains 2 Elephants - no way to destroy Ardent Plea.
Tera targets 2 of opponent's Land and Oblivion Ring while Oblivion Ring targets Terastadon. Stack = Ardent Plea, destroy Land #1, destroy Land #2, Destroy Oblivion Ring, Tera Targets 1 of his land and 2 more of his opponents.
End result Tera and 1 Elephant for Hypergenesis player, while opponent has 4 Elephants, Kird Ape and lost 4 land. Ardent Plea still in play.
i know that when u start naming and ordering your triggers the last thing u put on the stack is the first one that happens and active player goes first.
So for example if we want the knight to be exiled in example 1 we have to go like this: o-ring targets knight reliquary; terastodon targets land 1, land 2 and o-ring. So know the stack is checked and the last thing that was put on it happens first for the active player. Terastodon triggers go off first and destroys land 1, land 2 and o-ring. Elephants are put into play. This in turn triggers o-ring's second ability and is put on the stack last again and in turn is checked inmediately after the terastodon trigger, since it hasnt removed anything yet nothing will return to play. Then next thing checked on the stack is O-ring's first trigger which was targetting knight of the reliquary and removing it permanently since oring has already been destroyed with its seconds ability already triggered.
is this right? the only part im not sure of is the bolded sentences, since i am not sure if that triggers as soon as it is destroyed, if thats correct then this is the only way knight of the reliquary (or any other permanent w oring) could be removed permanently
i am having a major issue against faeries, it just seems like i cant beat them... all i have against them is vexing shusher but apparently thats not enough, could ricochet trap be a good replacement? i run 2 vexing shusher but it doesnt really seem to work very well for me, so i might just change it to 4 ricochet trap
Jeskai tempo is way easier.
In regards to Abrupt Decay: Spreading Seas, map were just an example of versatility... I could have mentioned any card with CC < 3 to make my point. It doesn't matter if these are not popular, in a modern tournament you will often play 10 different archetypes and its hard to be prepared for everything, which is why I prefer to run catchall cards such as decay, pulse, k command... I think you get where I'm getting at.
Jund can be built in so many different ways, my preference is to be as versatile as possible.
1. I never like to just concede matchups, or rather to ignore them. For instance, big mana decks... Through testing on mtgo I have found that these decks are still prevalent which is why I want a plan. Which leads into my second point.
2. Blood Moon. I love me some free wins. This card beats valakut all on its own and is helpful vs tron. I disagree when she says that fulminator is better since its good vs jeskai, but the thing is that blood moon is good there too!
3. Abrupt Decay. She is interested in lowering her curve and running 4 bolts. Therefore, cuts had to be made. I don't think 4 bolts is where I'd like to be and the reason is mainly Death Shadow, delve creatures and Thought Knot Seer. Decay sucks vs eldrazi but can still destroy expedition maps (when on the play) and random stuff like chalices, etc, but the reason why I like Decay is because it offers versatility. I want to be able to destroy Cranial Platings, or Death Shadow (withour fear of them holding up a one mana counter for it), Spreading Seas, etc etc
Been playing a good amount on modo, feeling pretty good about my chances for GP OKC... Been trying a list with Hazoret and Kitesail Freebooter (yes, Kitesail) and have 4-1'd three leagues, my losses have been to decks like UR through the breach and tron
Basically I was at 4 life with Blood moon in play when i drew terminate, sculler had my damnation and flickerwisp was going to bring me down to 1 on its next attack. The decision was to either kill flickerwisp and hope i find an answer for my own Bob before it kills me, mind you my opponent is locked by my moon but he still has a swamp in play and could potentially draw a fatal push to kill my bob and start attacking w his sculler. I felt like my opponent still had live draws and i also knew that I had lots of turns where my own bob could kill me if i dont draw a removal spell for it. Therefore, I went for the high risk high reward play of killing sculler since that meant i had to only dodge one bob trigger as I was getting my damnation back to my hand but couldnt cast it the same turn due to my own moon. It ended up working out, I was very conscious that I needed to get lucky, but this involved getting lucky only once, the other option involved getting lucky potentially multiple times and that was my reasoning.
Hazoret was insane the whole tournament, I loved it. I just wish I would have played vs grixis DS a bit more. Hazy absolutely seals the game in that matchup, I didnt play against DS until day 2 when i was already dead for top 8. I did however play vs tron 4 times and went 2-2, the wins involved blood moon draws and the losses where those games that I didn't have the moons. Matchup is just so hard.
My buddy Michael Olson finished top 32, we had a pretty similar list. He decided to go against blood moon in favor of fulminator mage. But I convinced him into running a Hazoret and he told me that it was great for him. He had a split of 1 kalitas and 1 hazy, where I had 2 Hazorets. In retrospect, maybe I should have had that same split with Kalitas, since Kalitas is great vs matter reshaper and races tron pretty well, I just thought that DS was going to be more popular. But I was wrong, tron was everywhere!
My win % vs big mana decks has improved a ton with blood moon. Scapeshift is a cake walk once you slam the moon. Tron is the only matchup where they are still capable of winning through the blood moon, thanks to expedition map and having all is dust. Still don't really know how to improve that matchup, been trying several things but ive only managed to go 50/50 vs them.
As soon as I have solved a few issues I will be posting my list.
I am thoroughly convinced that Burning Earth is not playable as it stands right now, and I am 100% that Ember Swallower is our beater to go on 4! He is nuts!
I am looking for a card that is good vs control, I like Possibility Storm but I feel very intimidated by Elspeth. The idea of having my opponent cast Jace AOT into Elspeth means trouble.
Magma Jet is a trap, don't play it. Shock is strictly better, we have Temple of Triumph anyways if you are in the market for Scry.
Just a few ideas to get started...
Take it easy,
Joe Herrera
@joetruuu
Cant really understand what your saying, if u could elaborate a little bit more on your reasoning for dragon's claw slot in the sb, ohh and good grammar would be nice as well.
I have come to the conclussion that the vamps matchup w RDW relies on luck for us to win, they have wayyy too much hate against us... hexmage first strike is really annoying, bloodghast just keeps coming back, tendrils sets us back way too much, etc etc But ever since i switched to play barely boros with day of judgment maindeck and this matchup has gotten a lot easier! once you wrath their board you just drop an ajani vengeant and its pretty much over, they cant come back from that on top of that you are burning with all the burn spells u draw... just something to think about, maybe barely boros is the way to go if we want to be able to beat vamps and kor firewalker
i know that when u start naming and ordering your triggers the last thing u put on the stack is the first one that happens and active player goes first.
So for example if we want the knight to be exiled in example 1 we have to go like this: o-ring targets knight reliquary; terastodon targets land 1, land 2 and o-ring. So know the stack is checked and the last thing that was put on it happens first for the active player. Terastodon triggers go off first and destroys land 1, land 2 and o-ring. Elephants are put into play. This in turn triggers o-ring's second ability and is put on the stack last again and in turn is checked inmediately after the terastodon trigger, since it hasnt removed anything yet nothing will return to play. Then next thing checked on the stack is O-ring's first trigger which was targetting knight of the reliquary and removing it permanently since oring has already been destroyed with its seconds ability already triggered.
is this right? the only part im not sure of is the bolded sentences, since i am not sure if that triggers as soon as it is destroyed, if thats correct then this is the only way knight of the reliquary (or any other permanent w oring) could be removed permanently