Are scry land mana bases not a thing anymore? I was constructing a decklist to buy in paper and fetchlands are far out of my budget. Are fetchland mana builds superior to scrylands? I heard some positive words about scrylands earlier so I'd love to get some clarity!
Thanks!
I was one of the folks on here touting the 8 Temple builds, and people are still playing the 8 Temple Versions. Chad Derk T8'ed a 157 person SCG Premier IQ with one last week, though SCG called it "Storm".
The important note on the 8 Temple manabase is to have ~1/2 of your lands able to come into play untapped. Derk and I basically came to the same manabase conclusions, though I play -1 Watery Grave, -1 Hallowed Fountain, -1 Gemstone Mine and +1 Darkslick Shores, +1 Seachrome Coast, +1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All. I like having a single Boseiju in the maindeck since it completely breaks the matchup with anyone running Counters. I side it out and drop to 19 lands against anyone without counter effects.
Other than that, I don't think we need MD Conflagrate. The 3rd Phyrexian Unlife seems so much better. I also swap between 3rd Pact of Negation and Conjurer's Bauble, though Bauble is not nearly as good in the shuffle-less version since you can't bottom a discarded Ad Nauseam for as much value. It still opens up hands with Lightning Storm and cantrips when it's not being relevant.
Chad Derk
T8 SCG Premier IQ (157 players)
2/22/2015
My thought process for Wear was that it would be useful when using Phyrexian Unlife, but thinking further you'd just cast Angel's Grace after drawing the whole deck and then can use Patrician's Scorn without worry. In which case, perhaps I should include one of the 1-cost artifact removal cards instead?
Play Disenchant. Sometimes you need to destroy something that's stopping you from comboing off, like a Stony Silence or Ethersworn Canonist. You can't rely on Patrician's Scorn in those situations.I don't think it's that common to encounter an artifact AND enchantment that you want to kill at the same time, now that Pod is gone (e.g. Pod/Spellskite+Eidolon). So there's not much reason to play an artifact removal spell that costs red mana instead of Disenchant.
I like Wear//Tear in the sideboard since there are many matchups where enchantment removal for W is very good: Jeskai Ascendency (not sure if this will still be a deck), Pyromancer's Ascension, and Splinter Twin. It's also very good against Blood Moon since keeping a white up isn't too hard, whereas keeping 1W up to float out of a Blood Moon on the turn it comes down is a lot tougher. I run 4x Gemstone Mine in my 8 Temple build, so the flexibility to hit artifacts is pretty good before even considering Pentad Prism, SSG, or Lotus Bloom in a pinch. Having the constant upside of enchantment removal for W with the ability to hit artifacts in the rare corner cases has been very good for me. I've only ever fused it once, but that helped me to get around a Chalice of the Void set at 1 and a Stony Silence to free up my Pentad Prism for Angel's Grace/Ad Nauseam on the following turn. Yup. Disenchant wouldn't have been enough.
I do think it's best to have an enchantment removal beyond Patrician' Scorn to battle Blood Moon in the 8 Temple builds; the fetch versions probably don't need to worry about it. To get out under a Blood Moon with Patrician's Scorn, you need to draw a white source, PScorn, and Angel's Grace. By then, you're hoping that you also have Ad Nauseam so you can get value out of your Grace or you're just burning it. With Wear//Tear, you only need a white source and a Wear//Tear and you're out. This is a lot easier to assemble when you're drawing pieces.
Out of curiosity can someone explain to me the reasoning for or against using a copy of Desperate Ritual over the 4th SSG?
Having Desperate Ritual let's you go off easier with 2 SSG in your deck, but it's also far less useful in general. It's rare that you need RRR other than when you're firing off a Lightning Storm. Even 4 SSG builds can go off with 2 SSG + any land you play after drawing your deck so it's not like Desperate Ritual opens up a hugely unique line of play.
I have a few questions about your SB strategy. I noticed you're cutting Pentad Prism in most matchups. I find it very interesting and wasn't the direction I was going. I was usually cutting 1x Sleight of Hand, 1x SSG in those cases. I also usually cut a Boseiju, Who Shelters All and drop to 19 lands in any match where counters are unlikely since we're usually damage racing and Bose isn't so great in those spots. On the other hand, Pentad Prism is quickening our clock (even more than a SSG) which seems like what we want to be doing. I might be totally wrong, though.
Day 1 at Omaha:
Record: 3-1 Round 5: RW Soul sisters?
Game 1: He turn one norin the wary or w/e's me and I know this is gonna suck. I out race him and deal 32 damage or w/e to kill him past the life he gained
Game 2: Similar start but I silenced him in his upkeep once to slow him down. Went off on T4 and had to use conflagrate to kill him since I would have had exactly lethal and he had RW up (was worried about helix).
Match 6: Rhino pod
Sideboard:
Out: 2x prism 2x pact of negation 2x serum visions
In: 3x leyline 1x drown in sorrow 1x supreme verdict 1x slaughter pact
Is Wear //Tear good here? I guess there's just no more room to side stuff out, but I'd probably moving at least 1 Wear // Tear in place of Boseiju. They have 3 major threats if they keep pod around: Sin Collector,Reclamation Sage, and Eidolon of Rhetoric/Ethersworn Canonist. Of course, a well-timed Pod can result in a Sin Collector/Reclamation Sage, but a Pod sticking around becomes severely threatening through Restoration Angel (on a disruption creature), and then Entomber exarch. I don't think I want a Pod in play. Wear //Tear is also conveniently Slaughter Pact #3 against those Rule of Law creatures.
For what it's worth, the build that won a grinder trial at GP Omaha this weekend was an 8 Temple build. I've been looking extra closely at that list. It's fairly stock, but does the Echoing Truth thing main and runs 2x wear/Tear and a Disenchant out of the side.
Link to the List? I'll be messing around with my mana for a while but don't think I would go above maybe ~9 total Temples+Fetches, I enjoy my Rainbow/Utility/Basic Land configurations too much.
Right now I'm on the 8 Temple plan but I think it's really close. Both versions have their merits. The mana is good in both but Temples seem to smooth the draws out a bit. 4 Fetches make you slightly more resilient to Blood Moon, but shorten your opponents clock and randomize your deck. They're also not great if you're in top deck mode to get a combo piece.
For what it's worth, the build that won a grinder trial at GP Omaha this weekend was an 8 Temple build. I've been looking extra closely at that list. It's fairly stock, but does the Echoing Truth thing main and runs 2x wear/Tear and a Disenchant out of the side.
I wonder if there's an 8 Temple, 4 fetch list possible. Last week I played 8 Temple, 2 Fetch with no major issues.
I've been playing this deck for a little while and it seems that being slightly more resistant to Blood Moon with fetches isn't worth giving up the consistency that you get for little cost with the Temples. More often than not you're racing in the current meta and getting turn 4's (sometimes 3) more frequently is overall better for the deck. It also makes your Scry's so much better and turns Peer Through Depths into a powerhouse. The Temples let you play fewer lands to free up space for more ways to get and defend the combo.
I think the biggest knock against the 8 Temple plan is the fact they enter tapped. You really want to have untapped lands for Turn 2 and/or Turn 3 so it's really important to keep the density of untapped lands high. I still MD Boseiju but I don't think keeping Tolaria MD works well with the Temples. I haven't had a problem with it, though, since this deck is pretty good at controlling its top card of the library.
Anyone know what kind of sleeves these are? I had them from a few years ago and would like to buy more. I'm guessing that they are green dragon shield. Can anyone confirm? No ultrpro logo on the front of the sleeve.
I happen to work at a place with a Ph.d in entomology so I asked him as well. He indicated it's a hover fly (bee fly) in the genus Xenox and is one of 4 species but could not tell me which without the specimen in hand. Some google action confirmed. The more you know!
You DO realize JFK half dollars (as well as all us coin currency) stopped being silver by 1965 right? Those 1968 half dollars are worth their face value and nothing more.
As indicated, this statement is incorrect. They dropped to 40% silver in 1965, whereas all other US coinage went to fully clad in the same year.
Long term value probably sits with magic cards. I never hear of anyone selling or looking for NBA trading cards. Didn't even know they were still a thing.
I was one of the folks on here touting the 8 Temple builds, and people are still playing the 8 Temple Versions. Chad Derk T8'ed a 157 person SCG Premier IQ with one last week, though SCG called it "Storm".
The important note on the 8 Temple manabase is to have ~1/2 of your lands able to come into play untapped. Derk and I basically came to the same manabase conclusions, though I play -1 Watery Grave, -1 Hallowed Fountain, -1 Gemstone Mine and +1 Darkslick Shores, +1 Seachrome Coast, +1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All. I like having a single Boseiju in the maindeck since it completely breaks the matchup with anyone running Counters. I side it out and drop to 19 lands against anyone without counter effects.
Other than that, I don't think we need MD Conflagrate. The 3rd Phyrexian Unlife seems so much better. I also swap between 3rd Pact of Negation and Conjurer's Bauble, though Bauble is not nearly as good in the shuffle-less version since you can't bottom a discarded Ad Nauseam for as much value. It still opens up hands with Lightning Storm and cantrips when it's not being relevant.
Chad Derk
T8 SCG Premier IQ (157 players)
2/22/2015
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Deceit
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 City of Brass
1 Plains
1 Island
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Angel's Grace
3 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Conflagrate
1 Lightning Storm
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
2 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Gigadrowse
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Silence
1 Disenchant
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Spellskite
1 Favor of the Mighty
LSV playing the deck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wuv1QxRzkA
Solid Player at a small store: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aet02Lo8IM
Solid Player makes it to the finals of his event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHYtY6H4fFU
Reuben Bresler and Jared Boettcher, who played it at the Pro Tour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO2NFZpmOVk
The funny thing is that Junk is a matchup that haunts our nightmares. You're reasonably favored in this match.
I like Wear//Tear in the sideboard since there are many matchups where enchantment removal for W is very good: Jeskai Ascendency (not sure if this will still be a deck), Pyromancer's Ascension, and Splinter Twin. It's also very good against Blood Moon since keeping a white up isn't too hard, whereas keeping 1W up to float out of a Blood Moon on the turn it comes down is a lot tougher. I run 4x Gemstone Mine in my 8 Temple build, so the flexibility to hit artifacts is pretty good before even considering Pentad Prism, SSG, or Lotus Bloom in a pinch. Having the constant upside of enchantment removal for W with the ability to hit artifacts in the rare corner cases has been very good for me. I've only ever fused it once, but that helped me to get around a Chalice of the Void set at 1 and a Stony Silence to free up my Pentad Prism for Angel's Grace/Ad Nauseam on the following turn. Yup. Disenchant wouldn't have been enough.
I do think it's best to have an enchantment removal beyond Patrician' Scorn to battle Blood Moon in the 8 Temple builds; the fetch versions probably don't need to worry about it. To get out under a Blood Moon with Patrician's Scorn, you need to draw a white source, PScorn, and Angel's Grace. By then, you're hoping that you also have Ad Nauseam so you can get value out of your Grace or you're just burning it. With Wear//Tear, you only need a white source and a Wear//Tear and you're out. This is a lot easier to assemble when you're drawing pieces.
Having Desperate Ritual let's you go off easier with 2 SSG in your deck, but it's also far less useful in general. It's rare that you need RRR other than when you're firing off a Lightning Storm. Even 4 SSG builds can go off with 2 SSG + any land you play after drawing your deck so it's not like Desperate Ritual opens up a hugely unique line of play.
I have a few questions about your SB strategy. I noticed you're cutting Pentad Prism in most matchups. I find it very interesting and wasn't the direction I was going. I was usually cutting 1x Sleight of Hand, 1x SSG in those cases. I also usually cut a Boseiju, Who Shelters All and drop to 19 lands in any match where counters are unlikely since we're usually damage racing and Bose isn't so great in those spots. On the other hand, Pentad Prism is quickening our clock (even more than a SSG) which seems like what we want to be doing. I might be totally wrong, though.
Some other questions:
Why the Silence here? I don't think they can really interact with our combo in any way. Isn't 4th Serum Visions/Pentad just better here?
Is Wear //Tear good here? I guess there's just no more room to side stuff out, but I'd probably moving at least 1 Wear // Tear in place of Boseiju. They have 3 major threats if they keep pod around: Sin Collector,Reclamation Sage, and Eidolon of Rhetoric/Ethersworn Canonist. Of course, a well-timed Pod can result in a Sin Collector/Reclamation Sage, but a Pod sticking around becomes severely threatening through Restoration Angel (on a disruption creature), and then Entomber exarch. I don't think I want a Pod in play. Wear //Tear is also conveniently Slaughter Pact #3 against those Rule of Law creatures.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpoma15/grand-prix-trial-winning-decklists-2015-01-10
David Siegfried piloted it.
The 8 Temple builds (typically) don't run Fetches at all.
For what it's worth, the build that won a grinder trial at GP Omaha this weekend was an 8 Temple build. I've been looking extra closely at that list. It's fairly stock, but does the Echoing Truth thing main and runs 2x wear/Tear and a Disenchant out of the side.
I wonder if there's an 8 Temple, 4 fetch list possible. Last week I played 8 Temple, 2 Fetch with no major issues.
I think the biggest knock against the 8 Temple plan is the fact they enter tapped. You really want to have untapped lands for Turn 2 and/or Turn 3 so it's really important to keep the density of untapped lands high. I still MD Boseiju but I don't think keeping Tolaria MD works well with the Temples. I haven't had a problem with it, though, since this deck is pretty good at controlling its top card of the library.
Can I get a little help on the one I posted?
3x Damnation NM
1x Misdirection NM-/LP+
B:
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Watery Grave
A or B for long term value and playability/trade bait factor.
Never seen one of these before.
As indicated, this statement is incorrect. They dropped to 40% silver in 1965, whereas all other US coinage went to fully clad in the same year.