Player A announces Phyrexian Metamorph. Metamorph does not target. Player B responds by destroying the only creature that is on the battlefield. Does metamorph come into play as a copy of the creature that was destroyed?
Ive gotta say that there are a ton of proliferate ideas out there but the most solid have a tendency to run in UB or UW vein. I have 2 proliferate decks put together. One is running Mind Sculptor and one isnt. However without giving up any trade secrets, lol!, contagion engine is way better than contagion clasp in both builds and also Triskelion is amazing in both builds. I can give you a shell of the deck but i think infuser is too slow. Just let me know which deck you want a shell for. lol!
@ Demonic Genocide - I understand what you're saying but when looking back at Kamigawa block with the Myojins, I'll use this example.
Myojin of Cleansing Fire - Remove the divnity counter. "Destroy each other creature."
Elspeths wording makes her susceptible to her own effect by the word preceding "other" which is all. Either this is bad wording by WotC or I just fail at the English language. I'm hoping for the first. LOL!
I think shes amazing as a card but her ultimate needs to be reworded to not include herself i.e. "Destroy each other permanent except tokens and lands." TBH it's the word "all" that's getting me. All signifies everything but tokens and lands regardless of what ability is doing it. Imagine for a second that wrath of god or day of judgment said this instead.
"Destroy all other permanents except tokens and lands."
Those spells would be placed into your graveyard along with all the other permanents.
This essentially is the same effect that elspeth produces except she would go to the graveyard as well and that is my problem.
I will definitely have to speak to my judge buddies regarding her ultimate wording and may even contact WotC regarding it.
EDIT:
All as defined by Websters dictionary is:
a: the whole amount, quantity, or extent of <needed all the courage they had> <sat up all night> b: as much as possible <spoke in all seriousness>
2 : every member or individual component of <all men will go> <all five children were present>
3 : the whole number or sum of <all the angles of a triangle are equal to two right angles>
6 : nothing but :only: a: completely taken up with, given to, or absorbed by <became all attention> b: having or seeming to have (some physical feature) in conspicuous excess or prominence <all legs> c: paying full attention with <all ears>
7 dialect: used up : entirely consumed —used especially of food and drink
8 : being more than one person or thing <who all is coming>
Other as defined by Websters is:
1 a: being the one (as of two or more) remaining or not included <held on with one hand and waved with the other one> b: being the one or ones distinct from that or those first mentioned or implied <taller than the other boys> c:second <every other day>
2 : not the same :different <any other color would have been better> <something other than it seems to be>
3 :additional <sold in the United States and 14 other countries>
4 a: recently past <the other evening> b:former <in other times>
5 : disturbingly or threateningly different :alien, exotic
Now someone explain to me how Elspeth lives through her own ability of "Destroy "ALL OTHER" permanents except tokens and lands."
I don't understand all the hype about elspeth. She blows herself up to. Look at the wording. "Destroy all other permanents except lands and tokens." Now unless I failed English class that means herself as well. Because in that context and wording it means everything but lands and tokens. Shes not reusable but she is good. She's not 1.0 good but she's good. I'm not taking that away from the card at all.
@Futagoza: T1: Mox Opal, Land, Memnite, Memnite, Steel Overseer
T2: Land, Tempered Steel, Swing for 8
T3: Pump again with steel Overseer, steady progress, proliferate, swing for 12 with 2 memnites, GG
I think thats dumb and I'm gonna build it.
At my shop here in Virginia we play by house rules for EDH. We take into consideration the fact that some things are just broken and have no home in the EDH format. With that being said most of the french list is followed with a few exceptions: Gifts Ungiven, Tolarian Academy, Sol Ring and Top are unbanned as well as Tinker. With that being said I would like to present my Dromar EDH deck for scrutiny. LOL! It is a combo of hardlock and infinite combos. Here we go:
Dromar - General
Creatue Package: 11
1 Jushi Apprentice
1 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
1 Uyo, Silent Prophet
1 Patron of the Moon
1 Palinchron
1 Erayo, Soratmi Ascendent
1 Willbender
1 Graceful Adept
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Sundering Titan
1 Zur the Enchanter
1 Linvala Keeper of Silence
Let me know what you think. The main win condition is to attack with zur once i tutor for him and he resolves and fetch erayos essence then play rule of law or arcane laboratory. I have checked over this through oracle and a few judges and oracle and the judges both say that its possible to do this as erayo is both a creature and enchantment simultaneously in the deck so he can be fetched with zur since his converted mana cost is 1U. Still though let me know what you think i could change.
Okay so I dont do alters at all. LOL! Earlier in the thread, i apologize if this has already been posted, there was a discussion as to why SCG would commission someone to do alters for them. I have the answer. I recently attended the PTQ in Richmond, VA where I saw the exact same alters that were on this thread being sold for $20 a pop. I hope that answers your questions. Again sorry if this has already been answered or posted.
1 Sealed and 1 Draft @ the Richmond Convention Center in Richmond Va.
Went 3-0-1 in sealed with the beats! B/W levelers. ID in the last round to guarantee even prize split. Highlights were turn 4 Hand of Emrakul and turn 5 Pestilence Demon (He's a house in limited). My ID and me played it out for fun. Went to 3 games but I would have won had we actually played.
9 Prize Packs - Highlight was a foil dragonlord.
Draft was single elimination. B/W levelers again. Housed my first opponent. Got hosed by my second opponent.
2 Prize Packs - Highlight was a momentous fall.
All in all a great day. Had lots of fun, met tons of new people and prized out. That's all a magic player can ask for.
Okay maybe this is just me and my love for the CG and the storyline but I feel that the big "screw up" was the time spiral block storyline. I know it tied up a lot of loose ends i.e. windgrace and the black planes-walker I cant remember his name right now. During the entire book thought Teferi says that venser is different and can walk the planes but that his spark is different. This im assuming comes as an evolution and an easing in of the neo-walker style. They're not all powerful anymore cause the rifts are sealed and the like. Karn walks out right as the rift above tolaria is closed but his spark wasnt taken. Dont get me wrong I love the old and neo walkers alike. I think they work mechanically and storyline wise. Am I tired of seeing them all the time? Yes. Do I think they need to expand the storylines? Yes. Do planeswalkers stay on the plane their spark ignited on? No. So with so many neo-walkers around and them still not aging but not being all powerful does that make for an intense storyline? Yes. Does Jace come from Ravnica? Yes. Did one of us know that before agents of artifice? No. So their storys are extremely exciting and we get to revisit some old places and storylines we love. I think walkers of old and walkers of new are great in their own respects. They don't need to fuel the storyline but they need to be involved.
Gideon 2WW
Planeswalker - Gideon
+1 - Prevent all damge dealt to you and creatures you control until your next upkeep.
-2 - Target player can't play spells and creatures that player controls cant attack you on that players next turn.
-X - Search for an Enchantment or Artifact card with converted mana cost X or less, if you do shuffle your library and put that card on top of your library.
-7 - All creatures and lands target player controls dont untap during their controllers next untap step.
[3]
Tell me if Im wrong or this overpowered or what.
You asked for a sample deck list and this is what ill give you. Some choices in this deck are a personal preference to colors that i wanna play as opposed to what the original progenitor of the deck i built used. so here we go:
Creatures - 2
2 Trinket Mage
Artifacts - 13
3 Chrome Mox
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Tormods Crypt
1 Sword of the Meek
Instants - 18
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic Command
3 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Muddle the Mixture
Sorceries - 2
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
Other Spells - 2
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Now this is the part that can differ in many ways. The land base is not really shaky by any means but can still do with some tweaking. I substituted the original 2 Hallowed fountains for 2 Watery Graves. They both serve the same purpose and apparently the 2 fountains were there to help with wrath/day mana (which i have had no problem producing).
Basic Land - 8
6 Island
2 Plains
Nonbasic Lands - 14
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Mystic Gate
1 Tolaria West
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Ancient Den
1 Seat of Synod
Legendary Land - 1
1 Academy Ruins
Thats just a sample decklist that you can tweak with all you want. However now I'll go over playing the deck. I have personally played this deck against several match ups from dredge to mill to zoo to affinity. Ill try to break this down the best i can.
Zoo and Any variant - Try to assemble the combo as fast as possible. You really dont play anything until turn 3 which will be a thirst hopefully. lol! Now that statement isnt to say that you let goyf hit the board or anything. Now I will tell you that chalice and path are almost useless in this match up as you dont want zoo having an extra land on you. So for sideboarding options I generally take out the 3 path and 1 chalice for 3 baneslayer angel and 1 extra snare. Now this deck does have the ability to kill u fast so as i said before get ur combo out first.
Example gifts package = sword, foundry, muddle and tolaria west. this will guarantee you the combo asap. Plus dont be afraid to play ur moxen without imprinting.
Dredge - Again try to assemble ur combo as fast as possible. If you cannot the backup plan is to get trinket mage and search out tormods crypt. This is almost an auto win for tezzeret. I am not taking away from dredge at all by saying that as it is an extremely solid deck and can kill u possibly anywhere between 4th and 7th turn. As for sideboarding options I prefer to put in the other crypt and relic for more graveyard kill. i generally take out the chalice and the shackles as they are too slow.
Affinity - Generally this up to if you draw the right removal and the right amount of Engineered Explosives. If you pull and EE for 0 on turn one then u almost always blow up their land and maybe mantle or ornithopter, depending on which build ur playing against. Now to be honest this match up is tough. I have lost probably about 40% of the matches against this deck and its variants. If you can stick an EE for 0 and blow it turn 2 then thats ur best bet. Path serves u great in this match up as Affinity doesn't play any basics. Side-boarding in this match up is crazy as i take out the crypt and chalice for pithing needle and the th copy of path. Spellbomb also serves u well as a deterrent. Also a lock on affinity becomes thopter foundry with vedalken shackles on the board. They cannot get past that without some sort of issue.
Well I'm pretty tired for right now. So I hope my explanation of tez and how i play it and what my sideboarding options are. I hope to hear that you ran this deck sometime in the near future. Oh I almost forgot to include the sideboard. LOL!
i would have to say that out of the possible three cards that we have somewhat spoiled (as i reserve my judgment until i see a pic of this guy) this is the strongest. For the standard environment as it is, with Jund being so heavy in the meta (at least 55 - 60%), then this is a great answer to even out the field. Now I will agree with some that it is no Mana Drain or Force of Will. However it is extremely strong no matter what turn you play it on. If this card is real then I see the archtype of U/W/X being extremely strong. You Have access to Flashfreeze, Essence Scatter, This spell and double negative/swerve if you go with red as x. You also have the ability to go B/R/U and secure yourself with cruel, terminate, bolt, blightning and anything else that goes with that deck.
This card is a strong contender for a "Good" counter spell award. Its power level is right on mark with most of the card advantage for jund and acts as a force spike against baneslayer or more. You guys who are looking at it as a godsend, that it is not. It's a solid spell that allows a lot of flexibility. Those who say it "sucks" are either aggro players or green stompy players who love the format when there's no blue counter, that's good by the way cancel isn't by any stretch of the imagination, and hate it when there is.
Everyone knows who im talking about. It's all of us. We all do it and the spoiling of this potential spell has done it. We blue mages hate when there's no good counter in the format and the aggro players hate it when there is. So we all need to play what we like to play and live with what WotC gives us.
maelstrom archangel and brilliant ultimatum are the only two ways i can think of to get him ouot cheaper and quicker. unless you do some crazy stuff with composite golem.
Myojin of Cleansing Fire - Remove the divnity counter. "Destroy each other creature."
Elspeths wording makes her susceptible to her own effect by the word preceding "other" which is all. Either this is bad wording by WotC or I just fail at the English language. I'm hoping for the first. LOL!
I think shes amazing as a card but her ultimate needs to be reworded to not include herself i.e. "Destroy each other permanent except tokens and lands." TBH it's the word "all" that's getting me. All signifies everything but tokens and lands regardless of what ability is doing it. Imagine for a second that wrath of god or day of judgment said this instead.
"Destroy all other permanents except tokens and lands."
Those spells would be placed into your graveyard along with all the other permanents.
This essentially is the same effect that elspeth produces except she would go to the graveyard as well and that is my problem.
I will definitely have to speak to my judge buddies regarding her ultimate wording and may even contact WotC regarding it.
EDIT:
All as defined by Websters dictionary is:
a : the whole amount, quantity, or extent of <needed all the courage they had> <sat up all night> b : as much as possible <spoke in all seriousness>
2
: every member or individual component of <all men will go> <all five children were present>
3
: the whole number or sum of <all the angles of a triangle are equal to two right angles>
4
: every <all manner of hardship>
5
: any whatever <beyond all doubt>
6
: nothing but : only: a : completely taken up with, given to, or absorbed by <became all attention> b : having or seeming to have (some physical feature) in conspicuous excess or prominence <all legs> c : paying full attention with <all ears>
7
dialect : used up : entirely consumed —used especially of food and drink
8
: being more than one person or thing <who all is coming>
Other as defined by Websters is:
1
a : being the one (as of two or more) remaining or not included <held on with one hand and waved with the other one> b : being the one or ones distinct from that or those first mentioned or implied <taller than the other boys> c : second <every other day>
2
: not the same : different <any other color would have been better> <something other than it seems to be>
3
: additional <sold in the United States and 14 other countries>
4
a : recently past <the other evening> b : former <in other times>
5
: disturbingly or threateningly different : alien, exotic
Now someone explain to me how Elspeth lives through her own ability of "Destroy "ALL OTHER" permanents except tokens and lands."
@Futagoza: T1: Mox Opal, Land, Memnite, Memnite, Steel Overseer
T2: Land, Tempered Steel, Swing for 8
T3: Pump again with steel Overseer, steady progress, proliferate, swing for 12 with 2 memnites, GG
I think thats dumb and I'm gonna build it.
Dromar - General
Creatue Package: 11
1 Jushi Apprentice
1 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
1 Uyo, Silent Prophet
1 Patron of the Moon
1 Palinchron
1 Erayo, Soratmi Ascendent
1 Willbender
1 Graceful Adept
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Sundering Titan
1 Zur the Enchanter
1 Linvala Keeper of Silence
Tutor package: 12
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Vampiric TUtor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Grim Tutor
1 Bribery
1 Acquire
Card Draw Package: 8
1 Tidings
1 Opportunity
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Frantic Search
1 Gush
1 Windfall
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Deep Analysis
Counter Package: 9
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Ertais' Meddling
1 Perplex
1 Hinder
1 Cancel
1 Spelljack
1 Force of Will
1 Dissipate
Board Control Package: 6
1 Decree of Pain
1 Rout
1 Mutilate
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Akroma Vengeance
Artifact Package: 7
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Amulet of Vigor
Filter Package: 3
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Recall
1 Relearn
Misc. Card Package: 8
1 Debtors Knell
1 Capsize
1 High Tide
1 Rule of Law
1 Time Warp
1 Time Stretch
1 Arcan Laboratory
1 Reminisce
Lands: 35
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswepth Heath
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrublands
1 River of Tears
1 Meteor Crater
1 Reliquary Tower
9 Islands
5 Swamps
5 Plains
Let me know what you think. The main win condition is to attack with zur once i tutor for him and he resolves and fetch erayos essence then play rule of law or arcane laboratory. I have checked over this through oracle and a few judges and oracle and the judges both say that its possible to do this as erayo is both a creature and enchantment simultaneously in the deck so he can be fetched with zur since his converted mana cost is 1U. Still though let me know what you think i could change.
Went 3-0-1 in sealed with the beats! B/W levelers. ID in the last round to guarantee even prize split. Highlights were turn 4 Hand of Emrakul and turn 5 Pestilence Demon (He's a house in limited). My ID and me played it out for fun. Went to 3 games but I would have won had we actually played.
9 Prize Packs - Highlight was a foil dragonlord.
Draft was single elimination. B/W levelers again. Housed my first opponent. Got hosed by my second opponent.
2 Prize Packs - Highlight was a momentous fall.
All in all a great day. Had lots of fun, met tons of new people and prized out. That's all a magic player can ask for.
Gideon 2WW
Planeswalker - Gideon
+1 - Prevent all damge dealt to you and creatures you control until your next upkeep.
-2 - Target player can't play spells and creatures that player controls cant attack you on that players next turn.
-X - Search for an Enchantment or Artifact card with converted mana cost X or less, if you do shuffle your library and put that card on top of your library.
-7 - All creatures and lands target player controls dont untap during their controllers next untap step.
[3]
Tell me if Im wrong or this overpowered or what.
Creatures - 2
2 Trinket Mage
Artifacts - 13
3 Chrome Mox
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Tormods Crypt
1 Sword of the Meek
Instants - 18
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic Command
3 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Muddle the Mixture
Sorceries - 2
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
Other Spells - 2
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Now this is the part that can differ in many ways. The land base is not really shaky by any means but can still do with some tweaking. I substituted the original 2 Hallowed fountains for 2 Watery Graves. They both serve the same purpose and apparently the 2 fountains were there to help with wrath/day mana (which i have had no problem producing).
Basic Land - 8
6 Island
2 Plains
Nonbasic Lands - 14
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Mystic Gate
1 Tolaria West
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Ancient Den
1 Seat of Synod
Legendary Land - 1
1 Academy Ruins
Thats just a sample decklist that you can tweak with all you want. However now I'll go over playing the deck. I have personally played this deck against several match ups from dredge to mill to zoo to affinity. Ill try to break this down the best i can.
Zoo and Any variant - Try to assemble the combo as fast as possible. You really dont play anything until turn 3 which will be a thirst hopefully. lol! Now that statement isnt to say that you let goyf hit the board or anything. Now I will tell you that chalice and path are almost useless in this match up as you dont want zoo having an extra land on you. So for sideboarding options I generally take out the 3 path and 1 chalice for 3 baneslayer angel and 1 extra snare. Now this deck does have the ability to kill u fast so as i said before get ur combo out first.
Example gifts package = sword, foundry, muddle and tolaria west. this will guarantee you the combo asap. Plus dont be afraid to play ur moxen without imprinting.
Dredge - Again try to assemble ur combo as fast as possible. If you cannot the backup plan is to get trinket mage and search out tormods crypt. This is almost an auto win for tezzeret. I am not taking away from dredge at all by saying that as it is an extremely solid deck and can kill u possibly anywhere between 4th and 7th turn. As for sideboarding options I prefer to put in the other crypt and relic for more graveyard kill. i generally take out the chalice and the shackles as they are too slow.
Affinity - Generally this up to if you draw the right removal and the right amount of Engineered Explosives. If you pull and EE for 0 on turn one then u almost always blow up their land and maybe mantle or ornithopter, depending on which build ur playing against. Now to be honest this match up is tough. I have lost probably about 40% of the matches against this deck and its variants. If you can stick an EE for 0 and blow it turn 2 then thats ur best bet. Path serves u great in this match up as Affinity doesn't play any basics. Side-boarding in this match up is crazy as i take out the crypt and chalice for pithing needle and the th copy of path. Spellbomb also serves u well as a deterrent. Also a lock on affinity becomes thopter foundry with vedalken shackles on the board. They cannot get past that without some sort of issue.
Well I'm pretty tired for right now. So I hope my explanation of tez and how i play it and what my sideboarding options are. I hope to hear that you ran this deck sometime in the near future. Oh I almost forgot to include the sideboard. LOL!
Sideboard - 15
3 Baneslayer Angel
3 Meddling Mage
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Negate
1 Path to Exile
1 Tormods Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pithing Needle
Well there ya go.
Best of Luck,
Soulermuzik
This card is a strong contender for a "Good" counter spell award. Its power level is right on mark with most of the card advantage for jund and acts as a force spike against baneslayer or more. You guys who are looking at it as a godsend, that it is not. It's a solid spell that allows a lot of flexibility. Those who say it "sucks" are either aggro players or green stompy players who love the format when there's no blue counter, that's good by the way cancel isn't by any stretch of the imagination, and hate it when there is.
Everyone knows who im talking about. It's all of us. We all do it and the spoiling of this potential spell has done it. We blue mages hate when there's no good counter in the format and the aggro players hate it when there is. So we all need to play what we like to play and live with what WotC gives us.