This totally change things. Since this play makes no sense as scum. swish is now confirmed town no question asked, sorry for suspecting you.
Also we now HAVE to follow my previous plan since both the SSC and the bomb guy are outted, if we no lynch scum will have perfect information to make the best kill without triggering the bombs and risking themselves.
In fact thinking about this setup some more I've come with yet another good planTM yeah I'm this awesome.
I want the FW guy to steal my bomb, if you are townie there's simply no excuse for not doing it since it both:
a)free swish's from the fear of being stole and lynched afterwards.
b)make the scum NK at least a bit risky for them since they do not will have info on who has the bomb again, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO NOT OUT YOURSELF.
WG credit has just plummeted since he was both buddying with me in an unnatural way and swish, who is now confirmed town suspects him so much he's willing to die to kill WG, even so we must discuss things more thoughtfully swissh, please do not fire blindly, let the town as a whole decide the target.
PRP had a good read but was unable to convince anyone that he was right. So he ultimately had very little to do with my lynch.
/barn
Not wanting to be that guy, Pope had little to no relevance to your lynch, I even loled when he said "I managed to get AI lynched and now I'm going to get Zion lynched", pretty amusing.
At first I thought that this was a flaw in the setup, but I really should have known better.
How claiming yet another protective role when me, Cyan, Seppel had already claimed is a flaw in the setup? Do you think a everyTownieIsProtectiveRole would be a nice setup? Had you not claimed Armored for no reason, the end could've been completely different since no one wanted to lynch you but your teamates.;)
As for meta arguments. Meta prevented mislynches on Zionite and AE, at the very least, and was largely responsible for Axel getting lynched.
I don't think meta prevented a Zion mislynch, you did by correctly reading him, and not only because of meta, everything about him screamed town imho, his actions, his posts, the intention, being a servant and meta pointed at him being town.
AE was confirmed because the 4 servants confirmed town block and Axel was just POE imho, before the day of his lynch he never was in any real danger.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that one of the reasons I chose to keep myself alive instead of sacrificing was that I had no idea whether Axel would be putting in the endgame effort, given how much he had been lurking (along with his work situation).
I don't know why you wanted so much to die since you played well and you are hard to read. You weren't in any real danger of being lynched until POE dictated it was only you or the Pope.
I'll admit I played a terrible game, but this is one thing I think I did well. Cyan already knew I was town from my meta; I just tried to show what he may be referring to. I think that the whole "self-meta isn't applicable" thing isn't as solid as it seems. Yes, in a world where everyone plays optimally and in their own self interest, it makes perfect sense that self-meta is invalid. But the simple fact is that most players aren't bothering to change their meta based on self-reflection unless they're playing a gimmick, and even then they're dodging the meta arguments completely instead of changing their playstyle. Every time I've tried to change my playstyle "because meta", I've gotten lynched. So I've just accepted that I play the way I play and stopped trying to change it.
That said, I should really listen to my team more; concentrate on my town reads rather than tunneling on my scum reads. That would make me a more useful player overall.
I think you are being very hard on yourself, if you reread the game with full knowledge you will notice you were largely correct about everything, yes you tunneled on Pope but after you burned out on him you overcame that quite nicely.
You were right about Eron(you almost saved him), Meg(you saved him imho), Pope(eventually), Cyan, me. I think you were pivotal to this win and I think you are the town MVP.
@DRey: If it were at all possible, I have less respect than ever for your capability at playing this game.
You really should stop saying such things, it does not achieve anything but create bad feelings everywhere. I never disrespected you before so please do the same to me.
You replaced in, acted like a giant tool, were wrong about everything that I can remember,
I don't remember being a fool, I was correct about the 4 servants being town, about Meg (I died bodyguarding him), about Eron. The only think I was wrong was Seppel, but I think he deserved it.
and then called my play into question when it was easy for you to do so because you could see the whole setup.
Far from the truth, if you reread the game you will probably notice this was probably your worst game ever. Note that I'm not saying you are a bad player, you aren't, but this showing was quite awful. You were wrong about everything dude. At least you were right about Zion, but I still do not understand how you could push Meg's lynch. I mean, he was scummy I agree but he was the only claimed investigative role AND was just one shot. There was no way the town had no investigative power. Also I don't know why you weren't pushing AI like a mofo after me and Eron flipped and you knew you were armored.
For all that you want to get on my case, the only lynch that I feel was poor was EtR. Seppel and Guardman got what they deserved. And if I weren't around at the end of the game, Zionite clearly would have gotten mislynched, and I don't think that the town would have pulled it out from there.
I 100% agree here, but if you got your own way Meg would've been lynched and Tar Nked and the town would not recover from there also.
I agree that the AI bus was bad. I didn't want to lynch AI, but I didn't think he would actually get lynched that day since the town was so bad =/ Again, I accept responsibility.
That was quite strange, the whole town onto Zion and you and Axel onto AI, had you both jumped any other wagon the lynch would probably not be AI but your credit would plummet. The truth is the situation was quite dire, you guys had little moving space because there were so many confirmed townies at that point it's not even funny.
What I actually wanted was for AI to bus me, but since we couldn't communicate, that was impossible.
There was no way for AI or anyone to bus you, your role was pro-town and confirmable, you only turned viable for a lynch after you failed to prove yourself, had AI tried to bus you with crap reason he probably would end up lynched even earlier.
And even then I was wrong about DRey. I was absolutely convinced that with the limited killing power we had seen that DRey and I couldn't both be town. :S
I want an explanation for that because to me your reason was "DRey claimed bodyguard as scum before so he's scum now", with such kind of reasoning, I will never be able to be town role anymore since I've claimed all kind of roles as scum already.
And if if you think a meager bodyguard and your semi-protective Joat is way too much protective power in a 16 player game you need to improve your setup gaming skills.
If I were scum, I would have killed Zionite and as fade would have said "derf I tried to out-WIFOM the scum because I thought they would kill RobRoy oh well".
I thought the very same thing in the spec chat. But an even better plan probably was to claim roleblock and NK Tar who was the biggest threat at that point.
I respect your right to make gambits. I do. It's just that your false claim absolutely got you mislynched.
Let me rephrase.
STOP FAILING AT FALSE CLAIMING YOUR ROLE AS TOWN. GAWD.
/barn
Had Gman not falseclaimed he could've survived, but by falseclaiming that outrageous stuff he just ensured his lynch. Not saying surviving as VT would be good, it would not since VT claims should be lynched 99% of the times anyway.
There are now 2 SSC's. We lynch one SSC, who fires on the other SSC, who gets to fire on anyone.
What are the chances we hit scum there?
0,821428571428571428571428571429 or
1-( 5/8)*(4/7)*(3/6)
that's the chance of hitting town AND town AND town.
What's the point of this?
---------
Anyway, we are all over the place, the sad truth is that we have no idea of who's scum or not and we should not gamble risking to lose the game on the spot. Since my plan has not got any traction the only acceptable choice is to reduce the possibility of a mislynch by reducing the pool of suspects by one increasing the chances of a correct lynch from 3/8 to 3/7.
vote no lynch
----
My suspects are Iso and swish, but I'm unwilling to lynch anyone toDay for stated reasons, there's simple no reason to, the setup is open and there's no way for scum to punish us (except by hitting a good artifact but this is inevitable).
Ok, since no one wants to go with the best plan, let's go with second best one.
Everyone rereads, posts their final reads and stuff. No lynch toDay, reevaluate tomorrow depending on the flip putting more weight into the words of the next confirmed town.
I mentioned this in another thread, but I think a way to implement a "minigame" would be to implement a global effect based off some sort of parameters. Maybe someone dies, and the lynch takes -1 less, or it's a horror game that has a Daytime and a Nighttime, with various bonuses to each faction at those times.
Reading some games on this and other sites, I think the Ogre Mafia with its concept of money, and a current Walking Dead game on mafiascum, both have some interesting ideas.
I like this guy, he clearly does his homework.
For other good examples of minigames that were done right here see amnesia and intrigue.
DRey: I understand what you are saying, but you are ignoring that just as good knowledge can increase your hit rate, bad knowledge can lower it. Your plan goes all in. We have exactly zero room for error in your plan and even if we hit scum we still lose a town. I prefer trying to lynch scum and play the odds with the number of protections.
Come on Gman, we have zero room for error with or without my plan, to think otherwise is to be naive, and even being naive and considering we will have a successful protection toNight why disregard this possibility only when using my plan? Using my plan does not involve asking our protective roles to not fire.
Ignoring numbers, if we lynch one guy we have a X% chance of hitting one scum, if we lynch two guys we have X+Y% chance of hitting one scum. And that's what we really need to do, to lynch the first scum is always the hardest part, after we find this one the rest will be easier by using interactions.
Which idea? I haven't provided any.
But yeah, looks like there's none in charge, I say you guys reunite and appoint someone. Xyre was doing an excellent job but I'm afraid he's not available anymore.
But let me extrapolate the question since I don't think we should be polluting the thread with such requests. How is the reviewer approval process being handled now? Is Az still responsible for it? I contacted him a while ago but in the end nothing was done about it.
I'll be honest, I keep forgetting I'm in this game. I have my reread open at page 24 (15 PPP) but it's hard for me to get engaged when I think half the game is scum.
I'll try to finish it soon but I have some obligations I need to take care of at the moment. Maybe tonight or tomorrow night?
How many games are you playing? Also if you aren't reading why are you refusing my plan without really knowing what you are disagreeing with?
I don't support DRey's SSC plan either. I think his numbers are misleading since they only include random chance. Also I would rather hedge our bets on the NK failing then a SSC going off and hitting scum if the SSC is town.
Finally someone who has the decency to gives a reason for disagreeing with me, unfortunately(?) the reason is wrong.
As you noticed, the numbers I've used are considering FULLY randomized lynches. The thing is: we are not lynching randomly, and that actually INCREASE our chances because we are lynching people that are likely to be scum and not random people. Lynching random people can hit scum but the chances are lower than lynching scummy people.
Imagine there's a dichotomy between 2 people, lynching randomly has a 50% chances of hitting. However if we take those guys behavior and lynch scummiest the chances are much higher, I would say near 100% in that case because the pool of suspects is so low it's hard to miss.
And you think anyone who disagrees with you is scum.
No, I don't, but I know Iso is not a dumbass, he knows I know my stuff and he read my math so he should be at least.
a)accepting the plan.
b)saying why the plan is bad and discussing it with me.
He's not doing anything like that, in fact he's not doing anything and this is completely unlike him. I've checked post counts and I've already passed him in posts despite being a replacement for less than a week. Iso is ignoring this game, a game in mylo and this does not look good to him, that's why I'm suspecting him, it has nothing to with accepting my reasons or not.
Btw, why the meaning of the smile? I don't want to take any conclusions so please explain to me.
I'm done talking to you. I won't support this plan.
No you are not "done with me" I've asked you a serious question and one that shows your scum fakeness.
1)Your reads wave like the sea, they change constantly even withing same day without any apparent reason.
2)You keep making potshots at everyone, even your "town" reads are target of your potshots. You are determined to make everyone look scummy, in fact you look delighted when people say stupid ****.
3)You are easy to persuade by your scumreads, when someone one deem scummy say something the logical procedure of a townie is to highly suspect that something, for example, the more you say WG should be lynched the less I want to lynch him.
4)You carefully read the thread (I know this because you are answering stuff and posting) however it seems you deliberately ignore particular stuff that does not suit you and keep asking the same questions again and again for no apparent reason. I can only imagine you are trying to muddle the waters.
5)You are scum.
Also we now HAVE to follow my previous plan since both the SSC and the bomb guy are outted, if we no lynch scum will have perfect information to make the best kill without triggering the bombs and risking themselves.
In fact thinking about this setup some more I've come with yet another good planTM yeah I'm this awesome.
I want the FW guy to steal my bomb, if you are townie there's simply no excuse for not doing it since it both:
a)free swish's from the fear of being stole and lynched afterwards.
b)make the scum NK at least a bit risky for them since they do not will have info on who has the bomb again, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO NOT OUT YOURSELF.
WG credit has just plummeted since he was both buddying with me in an unnatural way and swish, who is now confirmed town suspects him so much he's willing to die to kill WG, even so we must discuss things more thoughtfully swissh, please do not fire blindly, let the town as a whole decide the target.
unvote
Not wanting to be that guy, Pope had little to no relevance to your lynch, I even loled when he said "I managed to get AI lynched and now I'm going to get Zion lynched", pretty amusing.
How claiming yet another protective role when me, Cyan, Seppel had already claimed is a flaw in the setup? Do you think a everyTownieIsProtectiveRole would be a nice setup? Had you not claimed Armored for no reason, the end could've been completely different since no one wanted to lynch you but your teamates.;)
/barn
I don't think meta prevented a Zion mislynch, you did by correctly reading him, and not only because of meta, everything about him screamed town imho, his actions, his posts, the intention, being a servant and meta pointed at him being town.
AE was confirmed because the 4 servants confirmed town block and Axel was just POE imho, before the day of his lynch he never was in any real danger.
I don't know why you wanted so much to die since you played well and you are hard to read. You weren't in any real danger of being lynched until POE dictated it was only you or the Pope.
I think you are being very hard on yourself, if you reread the game with full knowledge you will notice you were largely correct about everything, yes you tunneled on Pope but after you burned out on him you overcame that quite nicely.
You were right about Eron(you almost saved him), Meg(you saved him imho), Pope(eventually), Cyan, me. I think you were pivotal to this win and I think you are the town MVP.
You really should stop saying such things, it does not achieve anything but create bad feelings everywhere. I never disrespected you before so please do the same to me.
I don't remember being a fool, I was correct about the 4 servants being town, about Meg (I died bodyguarding him), about Eron. The only think I was wrong was Seppel, but I think he deserved it.
Far from the truth, if you reread the game you will probably notice this was probably your worst game ever. Note that I'm not saying you are a bad player, you aren't, but this showing was quite awful. You were wrong about everything dude. At least you were right about Zion, but I still do not understand how you could push Meg's lynch. I mean, he was scummy I agree but he was the only claimed investigative role AND was just one shot. There was no way the town had no investigative power. Also I don't know why you weren't pushing AI like a mofo after me and Eron flipped and you knew you were armored.
I 100% agree here, but if you got your own way Meg would've been lynched and Tar Nked and the town would not recover from there also.
That was quite strange, the whole town onto Zion and you and Axel onto AI, had you both jumped any other wagon the lynch would probably not be AI but your credit would plummet. The truth is the situation was quite dire, you guys had little moving space because there were so many confirmed townies at that point it's not even funny.
There was no way for AI or anyone to bus you, your role was pro-town and confirmable, you only turned viable for a lynch after you failed to prove yourself, had AI tried to bus you with crap reason he probably would end up lynched even earlier.
I want an explanation for that because to me your reason was "DRey claimed bodyguard as scum before so he's scum now", with such kind of reasoning, I will never be able to be town role anymore since I've claimed all kind of roles as scum already.
And if if you think a meager bodyguard and your semi-protective Joat is way too much protective power in a 16 player game you need to improve your setup gaming skills.
I thought the very same thing in the spec chat. But an even better plan probably was to claim roleblock and NK Tar who was the biggest threat at that point.
/barn
Had Gman not falseclaimed he could've survived, but by falseclaiming that outrageous stuff he just ensured his lynch. Not saying surviving as VT would be good, it would not since VT claims should be lynched 99% of the times anyway.
0,821428571428571428571428571429 or
1-( 5/8)*(4/7)*(3/6)
that's the chance of hitting town AND town AND town.
What's the point of this?
---------
Anyway, we are all over the place, the sad truth is that we have no idea of who's scum or not and we should not gamble risking to lose the game on the spot. Since my plan has not got any traction the only acceptable choice is to reduce the possibility of a mislynch by reducing the pool of suspects by one increasing the chances of a correct lynch from 3/8 to 3/7.
vote no lynch
----
My suspects are Iso and swish, but I'm unwilling to lynch anyone toDay for stated reasons, there's simple no reason to, the setup is open and there's no way for scum to punish us (except by hitting a good artifact but this is inevitable).
Festering Newt
Everyone rereads, posts their final reads and stuff. No lynch toDay, reevaluate tomorrow depending on the flip putting more weight into the words of the next confirmed town.
I like this guy, he clearly does his homework.
For other good examples of minigames that were done right here see amnesia and intrigue.
Ignoring numbers, if we lynch one guy we have a X% chance of hitting one scum, if we lynch two guys we have X+Y% chance of hitting one scum. And that's what we really need to do, to lynch the first scum is always the hardest part, after we find this one the rest will be easier by using interactions.
But yeah, looks like there's none in charge, I say you guys reunite and appoint someone. Xyre was doing an excellent job but I'm afraid he's not available anymore.
But let me extrapolate the question since I don't think we should be polluting the thread with such requests. How is the reviewer approval process being handled now? Is Az still responsible for it? I contacted him a while ago but in the end nothing was done about it.
As you noticed, the numbers I've used are considering FULLY randomized lynches. The thing is: we are not lynching randomly, and that actually INCREASE our chances because we are lynching people that are likely to be scum and not random people. Lynching random people can hit scum but the chances are lower than lynching scummy people.
Imagine there's a dichotomy between 2 people, lynching randomly has a 50% chances of hitting. However if we take those guys behavior and lynch scummiest the chances are much higher, I would say near 100% in that case because the pool of suspects is so low it's hard to miss.
Do you understand now?
No, I don't, but I know Iso is not a dumbass, he knows I know my stuff and he read my math so he should be at least.
a)accepting the plan.
b)saying why the plan is bad and discussing it with me.
He's not doing anything like that, in fact he's not doing anything and this is completely unlike him. I've checked post counts and I've already passed him in posts despite being a replacement for less than a week. Iso is ignoring this game, a game in mylo and this does not look good to him, that's why I'm suspecting him, it has nothing to with accepting my reasons or not.
Btw, why the meaning of the smile? I don't want to take any conclusions so please explain to me.
No you are not "done with me" I've asked you a serious question and one that shows your scum fakeness.
1)Your reads wave like the sea, they change constantly even withing same day without any apparent reason.
2)You keep making potshots at everyone, even your "town" reads are target of your potshots. You are determined to make everyone look scummy, in fact you look delighted when people say stupid ****.
3)You are easy to persuade by your scumreads, when someone one deem scummy say something the logical procedure of a townie is to highly suspect that something, for example, the more you say WG should be lynched the less I want to lynch him.
4)You carefully read the thread (I know this because you are answering stuff and posting) however it seems you deliberately ignore particular stuff that does not suit you and keep asking the same questions again and again for no apparent reason. I can only imagine you are trying to muddle the waters.
5)You are scum.