This Mafia game is the second of the Cross-Town Throw-down series in collaboration with the MafiaScum forum community in an effort to share ideas and culture in the best way we know how: playing Mafia. The traditional Mafia ruleset will be used along with an experimental scoring rubric to pit MafiaScum players against MTG Salvation players in a shared arena. Each community has reviewed the setups for fairness and familiarity. Six players from each community will make up the population of the game, and each team must work together with an unfamiliar meta to overcome. May the best players win!
Player List:
[MS] Kami of Lunacy
[MTGS] Iso
[MTGS]VoxxicusTaredas
[MTGS] Cyan
[MS] Vierni Town Vanilla, lynched Day 1.
[MTGS] desCoures* Town Vanilla, had his core smashed to bits Night 1.
[MTGS]DYH Condoms Mafia Latent Role-Cop, was violently disassembled Night 1.
[MS] Thor665 Town Friendly Neighbor, was lynched Day 2.
[MTGS] Nachomamma8 Mafia Latent Bulletproof, was lynched Day 3.
[MS] Llamarble Town 1-shot Vig, was incinerated Night 3.
[MTGS]Cyouni Town Vanilla, lynched Day 4.
[MS] Tammy Town Vanilla, exploded Night 4.
Prod Key
* = 1 Prod
** = 2 Prods
*** = 3 Prods (if 3 in a day you WILL be replaced no matter how much you promise to post)
X = 4 Prods / replaced (4 prods overall will mean replacement)
Each Day will have a fixed deadline of “number of living players X 2”. When said deadline is reached lynch threshold will be reduced by one vote per each passing day until a lynch or no-lynch has happened. If two players are tied with the same number of votes the first to have reached that number of votes will be the lynch. The votecount indicate this by row placement (higher meaning earlier). If a lynch threshold ever reaches 0, everyone loses and the game is over.
NOTES
Previous Portal knowledge is not required for playing (but will probably increase overall enjoyment), this is so true that players character will be public information from the get go and have no bearing on alignment.
Also remember Jey will be my co-mod so please send all PMs to both of us.
Town win condition is: "You successfully save science when all threats to science are dead."
So your legislation against No Kill is based on your personal amusement and not having any better way to resolve Happily Ever After...?
I wouldn't say "for my personal amusement", but what I think makes for a more enjoyable experience for most players, however, that certainly does take into consideration what I think is more amusing. I (or anyone else) would never insert a rule thinking "everyone will hate this, so let me use this to make everyone life's miserable".
Don't you think this is a good, elegant fix? So far the only argument against this is that it reduces the scum power, and I've already taken this into consideration.
Why is this(doing the matches) a problem again? For bragging purposes? To me the best part is to do the drafts anyway, I like the discussion and creating a deck, piloting it and stuff does not matter all that much to me and maybe for the rest of you guys too.
But I don't know if the problem is really this or that the responsibles have just grown tired and cannot afford doing it anymore if so, how about trying to find other people to continue?
The second rule 4, I would note, by the way it is worded precludes talk in the Dead QT. I'm just pointing that out because I'm OCD (as are most mafia players, it seems) so...y'know.
Rule 6 and 10 - I have issue with enforced mafia kills. Mafia no-killing is a strategy, and one I have used to good effect in the past. I see no reason to rob them of that choice, if they think it benefits them to no kill, they should have the right to do so.
I know it's a strategy but this was not done randomly, mafia is penalized here but gain elsewhere.
I don't like the bold part of rule 14 - functionally, this means a town replacement in lylo equates to an auto scum win. Also it's just odd - the slot still exists, I am unsure why this would be a benefit to even bother with the book-keeping on, nor do I understand why a replacement should become immune from votes during the search, I like getting people to replace into slots with pressure - heck, I like replacing into slots with pressure.
You misunderstood, I've written that part again for clarity purposes.
15 seems random and punishes a team for matters that are likely out of their control. Blacklist players who flake, don't punish teams who had flakers.
Hehehe, yes it punishes teams with flakers but has other side effects as well.
1)When someone replace in I warn him about his situation, so he will know exactly where he stands, he has not the option to replace out. I think this has a positive influence in his responsibilities as a player, I believe when the punishment is palpable and instantaneous the peer pressure is much higher and is much harder for flakers to play. So far I haven't replaced any slot twice in my games.
2)Blood invigorate games, it gives info for the town no matter what and keeps games more active. Replacement feists greatly reduce the morale of the players and has negative repercussions on the game.
This one is staying and is unlikely to matter particularly in this game with highly regarded players, and remember there's always the failsafe "barring exceptional gamebreaking situations".
I'm talking about this from a player's perspective (not a modding perspective) but I know I have been *extremely* anxious to check a player's alignment after a flip as town, to the point of checking the thread multiple times each Day to see "has the host put Night up yet?". While I understand your point of governors, I feel as though the cost outweights the benefits, as I feel as though governors are used sparingly enough to not make every twilight period 24 hours.
That's actually a very good point as I know this feeling very well, the governor point was very minor. The real point is:
I want consistence, players want consistence. It's very bad to have randomly variable twilights because they do have an impact in games. Imagine you have reread a game in twilight or is doing some twilight gambit that require time, written a big wall of text and when you are about to post, the mod comes and ends the day. With a pre-determined time you know exactly where you stand.
Also I need time to write and stuff to prepare, so the twilight cannot be very low because I may be busy and I hate breaking rules, particularly the ones I've created myself :D.
That being said I think we can improve this, so the twilight now will be a 12 hours minimum and 24 hours maximum. I'm sure that with the help of my co-mod I can do this.
I understand that this is a controversial rule but, personally, I dislike it. I can understand the reasoning why you'd include something like this (to prevent situations like Arianrhod in WWE, where a outed scum has no reason to post) but I disliked the rule in USUDM and the quick Days 2 and 3 were a huge part of my apathy towards that game.
Again, we have the player vs mod spectrum, where as a mod, I understand why you'd include a rule like this, while my player side dislikes it intensely.
Yeah, I will just remove this, there's no defensors of this one, just detractors so there's no reason to keep this one.
What is the purpose of a rule like this? I don't see it solving any existing problem and I feel as though it takes away the strategic element of a no-kill.
There's a minor problem it solves, the "no-lynch, no-kill" stalemate. This rule does a lot of good things for the games.
a)Increase the viability/power of no-lynches (no-lynches are always polemic and they usually bring up good conversation).
b)Does open up possibilities for the mafia to trick the town into a no-lynch for their own personal gain.
c)Greatly reduce the WIFOM possibilities about a no-night kill, removing a lot of unmafia talk. Btw I know this weakens the mafia and strengthens the town.
d)Reduce the chances of a no-kill night (unfun). More blood = more happiness. Games with no blood = boring games.
I do not like this - I feel as though a protective role should know if they were roleblocked or redirected. If you were designing a game based around hidden information then I could see myself using this but I feel as though a power role should know that a roleblock is present in the game.
And here is the part where the town gets the shaft. Actually I got this from MS and while it makes no sense from a flavor standpoint, when flavor gets in the way of a good game, flavor always loses. In the end we need to rely more in real mafia and not in mod-confirmation townies, get mad-confirmed by your behavior not because the mod said "Hey John, last night Mary doc protected you, she's now the confirmed doc". The truth is that our playerbase has got lazy and spoon feed because of such moderation styles, there's so many games here that are determined just because of confirmed power roles existance and not behavior here it's not even funny. Mafia should not lose because of that.
I have little doubt the way MS handles this is the superior one and this one is also staying. Oh, and also this impact game balance. I'm aware of it and all my games are designed with this in mind.
TLDR: We are doing it wrong, let's learn with our brothers at MS and improve.
I know you disagree with me on this for modding philosophy, but I feel that a rule regarding changing the rules at any time should be present. I understand that you like sticking to the rules no matter what and hate to break them, but I feel like you should allow yourself some leeway on the rules to prevent a trainwreck situation (USUDM says hi again).
That's an implicit rule, as you remember well, I've tweaked both the original Innistrad deadline system and USUDM suicide system on the fly. You are correct I'm very unlikely to change rules on the get go, but when it's necessary to prevent a catastrophe rest assured I will pull the trigger.
I actually am totally fine with that rule, and on MS it's, more or less, the norm.
I actually dislike the idea that a Doc would be told if he was roleblocked or not - that seems too town advantageous. I don't even understand why they remotely should be told - they protected a player, either that player lives or that player dies; what deeper information do they deserve than that? They're not an information role, they're a protective role.
I would prefer that extensions be given when the mod feels it's conducive to gameplay (e.g. the moderator or two players are not available when the deadline falls) and not because the Town can't get their act together.
My extension rule is pretty consistent: there's no extensions, you know from the get go your whole time, if your team cannot get their act together, the other team will.
An easier way to think about the gimmicky deadline rule is to think it's just the usual "when deadline arrives the biggest wagon is lynched instead of a no-lynch" with just a little more leeway.
This probably will sound harsher then I want but...
Why people think Iso is a good player again? He did everything wrong here and his reads were terrible. The only thing he did correct was to give Gman a second shot when he no idea what item Gman had so it could have ended in disaster. In the end he lucked out Gman had the only item that could stop scum and had correct reads.
I greatly disliked the random part of this games mechanics and unfortunately it kinda dictated the game ending.
In re: deadlines and activity - You can say that Voxxicus' absence made the D1 deadline extension rather courteous, but considering that all of the Days went right up to deadline because decisions were tough to come by, I'd be for shorter Day phases on the next go-round. Consistent prod rules would be nice as well.
I think I've got this, the rules are pretty consistent about this: the clock is always ticking, the clock is ticking faster and the clock never stops. There's also no deadline extensions and prods are enforced.
Once the lynch threshold has been reached, nothing can prevent that lynch and the game is considered to be in "twilight" for 24 hours. Posting during twilight is allowed.
My reasoning for this is twofold.
a)to prevent players to guess governor kind of roles based on the twilight presence or not.
b)To prevent situations where players want to say stuff before night but are prevented by a Very Active Moderator or where players don't really know how much time they have to post before the mod comes and ends the day. Consistence if good and I like.
4. The Scum have a communal 1-shot suicide pill. Meaning, once per game a scum player can vote for themselves to suicide ending the day, no twilights in this case.
That's a pet peeve of me that I'm perfectly willing to abandon if no one likes it.
I like this as a way to let the scum to be able to trade their biggest asset (their life) to reduce town coordination. It's a tactical weapon, good in the hands of smart players (giving the scum time to breathe), and terrible in the hands of weaker players (that may suicide in a whim). It also quicken the game and prevent "we will lynch X toDay but let's stay here doing nothing until deadline just because we can and if anyone want to push for the early end of the Day people will say it's scummy" gamestates.
Again, from previous experiences (in a less improved version where the town could also suicide and it was unlimited) this is probably highly controversial and I'm willing to remove this if majority dislike it.
First I'm thrilled that people are still interested in this series since I'm the next host and I wasn't really sure if it would continue. I'm particularly happy to see some known faces from my short time at MS (except Fate cause I'm still bitter he single handily lynched me in Chrono Trigger ;)) and I'm proud to say I'm a Vi fan. I learned to design and host games mostly reading your guides.
I wasn't really following the game but I felt very strongly that the pace was glacial, come on how many days we had on Day 1? I think we broke a new record or something. I think Zion should've been stricter with the deadlines and maybe prods (). I'm particularly talking about this because I'm a advocate of a quicker pace in mafia games, I think that games get much more enjoyable when stuff is happening all the time (fast and furious) so it's harder for players to get bored and lose interest. I design my games/rules with this in mind. Because of that my games are usually quicker and have less posts than usual.
I'm talking about this because to me it will be an honor to host a game to such a fantastic group of players and I want it to run flawlessy so I want to ask about feedback for you guys about my rule set. So please check it out and provide feedback until I'm still able to tweak it. I've created this rule set mixing some things I found enjoyable from mods both from MS and here.
@about ISO feature, actually we have a way to do MS style ISOs here, it's just more complicated than there (btw it would be sweet if Curse implemented MS's ISO). Just create a blank search with just the name of a player, all his posts will be shown in inverse time order.
I have a Specialty in review but my reviewers say it's not anywhere complicated enough to be a Specialty - but it has 2 scum teams.
Wat do???
Your reviewers are wrong. There are just two types of games, normal and non-normals. Normals have pretty strict requirements and yours certainly do not fit, so it's instantly upgraded to speciality.
Specialities are not the place just for "complex or innovative" games anymore, this has changed when the normal queue was restructured. I also think that contrary to popular belief games get more enjoyable the less complexity they have, and yes this includes veterans. New World Order for the win.
I'm concerned about a bad game firing and hurting the reputation of the site. Especially if minor changes can be made to fix it. I've seen too many games lately that sucked even though they were reviewed, reviewers make mistakes too.
If people want to out because the game has issues, I would rather see them do it now instead of replacing out or feeling bad once the game started.
I think you both are correct and have valid points, in retrospect I think those issues should be addressed with the moderators by PM privately.
Also maybe now is the time for yet another discussion for the betterment of the forums. In MS all games have a cap time for the signups. If I remember well its two weeks, and after that games that are not filled are postponed for the next in line.
I think it's a healthy way to guarantee no game get stuck in the signups forever without hard feelings and that players are not forced to join just for the queue to move on (which is bad). How about one week for small games (12 or less players) and two weeks for big games?
Also lifting the "one at a time" requirement is a big mistake since it will just make both games have a hard time filling.
But Legendary samurai was terrible Iso, requiring people to be lynched twice for them to be actually lynched was like the worst idea ever, I expected never to see that again since it was one of the reasons for that game to turn into a festival of lurkers.
I don't like to say bad stuff about games that haven't even finished, but since everyone is doing there's no need to hold back... I think this game will play terrible since it does mix a lot of bad ideas together: twice to lynch, random lynching, multiple accounts to play (everyone who has played with a gimmick know how prone to error and tiring this become eventually), way too many players.
At least ZDS reviewed it so it's probably balanced.
There is a non-zero percent chance that both Swishh and Iso are scum btw.
Iso could easily be aggressively bussing to try and earn himself "confirmed" town in the endgame.
While true, the chances of that are next to zero for two reasons.
1)By creating a dichotomy of themselves they guarantee a scum lynch toDay.
2)When one scum goes down it's 100% easier to catch the others in comparison to games with zero scum caught. The first scum is always the hardest.
3)Why prolong the game for one more day when you can end it now? Scum always want to end the game now than later.
TLDR: Iso either is confirmed town or we lose and I have no regrets. I will never in hell let him be lynched after this.
Why am I not reading? If you said this previously, I apologize for missing this, but I had assumed it was based on something more substantial. Your blanket statement of "scum aren't willing to reread to investigate anyone" is based on what experience? They obviously won't actually reread to find scum, since they know who the scum are, but it looks like you're saying that scum will never do research into the past which is honestly just ludicrous. If I had realized this previously, I would have pointed this out, and if I did and am forgetting then
That's a gross simplification of my thought process, I didn't clear Karn because "scum aren't willing to reread to investigate anyone", it's quite deeper than that but I'm lazy to explain because I have difficulty with explaining myself and your language so find and reread my previous post about this and try to understand my reasoning, if you still have doubts return to me and I will expand.
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Iso
Thor665 (3) - Vierni, desCoures, llamarble
Cyouni (1) - Tammy
Not Voting (4) - Nachomamma8, Cyouni, Voxxicus, DYH
With 12 still alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Iso
Thor665 (2) - Vierni, desCoures
Cyouni (1) - Tammy
Not Voting (5) - Nachomamma8, llamarble, Cyouni, Voxxicus, DYH
With 12 still alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
This Mafia game is the second of the Cross-Town Throw-down series in collaboration with the MafiaScum forum community in an effort to share ideas and culture in the best way we know how: playing Mafia. The traditional Mafia ruleset will be used along with an experimental scoring rubric to pit MafiaScum players against MTG Salvation players in a shared arena. Each community has reviewed the setups for fairness and familiarity. Six players from each community will make up the population of the game, and each team must work together with an unfamiliar meta to overcome. May the best players win!
Player List:
VoxxicusTaredasDYHCondoms Mafia Latent Role-Cop, was violently disassembled Night 1.* = 1 Prod
** = 2 Prods
*** = 3 Prods (if 3 in a day you WILL be replaced no matter how much you promise to post)
X = 4 Prods / replaced (4 prods overall will mean replacement)
Waypoints
1. Starring!(Day 1)
3. He was a faithful companion(Night 1)
4. Double Kill(Day 2)
General rules of mafia, please read at least the bolded just in case.
Each Day will have a fixed deadline of “number of living players X 2”. When said deadline is reached lynch threshold will be reduced by one vote per each passing day until a lynch or no-lynch has happened. If two players are tied with the same number of votes the first to have reached that number of votes will be the lynch. The votecount indicate this by row placement (higher meaning earlier). If a lynch threshold ever reaches 0, everyone loses and the game is over.
NOTES
Previous Portal knowledge is not required for playing (but will probably increase overall enjoyment), this is so true that players character will be public information from the get go and have no bearing on alignment.
Also remember Jey will be my co-mod so please send all PMs to both of us.
Town win condition is: "You successfully save science when all threats to science are dead."
Don't you think this is a good, elegant fix? So far the only argument against this is that it reduces the scum power, and I've already taken this into consideration.
I'm ready. I can create "Portal 2 Mafia" anytime given the greenlight.
But I don't know if the problem is really this or that the responsibles have just grown tired and cannot afford doing it anymore if so, how about trying to find other people to continue?
Good catch, fixed.
I know it's a strategy but this was not done randomly, mafia is penalized here but gain elsewhere.
You misunderstood, I've written that part again for clarity purposes.
Hehehe, yes it punishes teams with flakers but has other side effects as well.
1)When someone replace in I warn him about his situation, so he will know exactly where he stands, he has not the option to replace out. I think this has a positive influence in his responsibilities as a player, I believe when the punishment is palpable and instantaneous the peer pressure is much higher and is much harder for flakers to play. So far I haven't replaced any slot twice in my games.
2)Blood invigorate games, it gives info for the town no matter what and keeps games more active. Replacement feists greatly reduce the morale of the players and has negative repercussions on the game.
This one is staying and is unlikely to matter particularly in this game with highly regarded players, and remember there's always the failsafe "barring exceptional gamebreaking situations".
That's actually a very good point as I know this feeling very well, the governor point was very minor. The real point is:
I want consistence, players want consistence. It's very bad to have randomly variable twilights because they do have an impact in games. Imagine you have reread a game in twilight or is doing some twilight gambit that require time, written a big wall of text and when you are about to post, the mod comes and ends the day. With a pre-determined time you know exactly where you stand.
Also I need time to write and stuff to prepare, so the twilight cannot be very low because I may be busy and I hate breaking rules, particularly the ones I've created myself :D.
That being said I think we can improve this, so the twilight now will be a 12 hours minimum and 24 hours maximum. I'm sure that with the help of my co-mod I can do this.
Yeah, I will just remove this, there's no defensors of this one, just detractors so there's no reason to keep this one.
There's a minor problem it solves, the "no-lynch, no-kill" stalemate. This rule does a lot of good things for the games.
a)Increase the viability/power of no-lynches (no-lynches are always polemic and they usually bring up good conversation).
b)Does open up possibilities for the mafia to trick the town into a no-lynch for their own personal gain.
c)Greatly reduce the WIFOM possibilities about a no-night kill, removing a lot of unmafia talk. Btw I know this weakens the mafia and strengthens the town.
d)Reduce the chances of a no-kill night (unfun). More blood = more happiness. Games with no blood = boring games.
And here is the part where the town gets the shaft. Actually I got this from MS and while it makes no sense from a flavor standpoint, when flavor gets in the way of a good game, flavor always loses. In the end we need to rely more in real mafia and not in mod-confirmation townies, get mad-confirmed by your behavior not because the mod said "Hey John, last night Mary doc protected you, she's now the confirmed doc". The truth is that our playerbase has got lazy and spoon feed because of such moderation styles, there's so many games here that are determined just because of confirmed power roles existance and not behavior here it's not even funny. Mafia should not lose because of that.
I have little doubt the way MS handles this is the superior one and this one is also staying. Oh, and also this impact game balance. I'm aware of it and all my games are designed with this in mind.
TLDR: We are doing it wrong, let's learn with our brothers at MS and improve.
That's an implicit rule, as you remember well, I've tweaked both the original Innistrad deadline system and USUDM suicide system on the fly. You are correct I'm very unlikely to change rules on the get go, but when it's necessary to prevent a catastrophe rest assured I will pull the trigger.
My extension rule is pretty consistent: there's no extensions, you know from the get go your whole time, if your team cannot get their act together, the other team will.
An easier way to think about the gimmicky deadline rule is to think it's just the usual "when deadline arrives the biggest wagon is lynched instead of a no-lynch" with just a little more leeway.
Why people think Iso is a good player again? He did everything wrong here and his reads were terrible. The only thing he did correct was to give Gman a second shot when he no idea what item Gman had so it could have ended in disaster. In the end he lucked out Gman had the only item that could stop scum and had correct reads.
I greatly disliked the random part of this games mechanics and unfortunately it kinda dictated the game ending.
I think I've got this, the rules are pretty consistent about this: the clock is always ticking, the clock is ticking faster and the clock never stops. There's also no deadline extensions and prods are enforced.
My reasoning for this is twofold.
a)to prevent players to guess governor kind of roles based on the twilight presence or not.
b)To prevent situations where players want to say stuff before night but are prevented by a Very Active Moderator or where players don't really know how much time they have to post before the mod comes and ends the day. Consistence if good and I like.
That's a pet peeve of me that I'm perfectly willing to abandon if no one likes it.
I like this as a way to let the scum to be able to trade their biggest asset (their life) to reduce town coordination. It's a tactical weapon, good in the hands of smart players (giving the scum time to breathe), and terrible in the hands of weaker players (that may suicide in a whim). It also quicken the game and prevent "we will lynch X toDay but let's stay here doing nothing until deadline just because we can and if anyone want to push for the early end of the Day people will say it's scummy" gamestates.
Again, from previous experiences (in a less improved version where the town could also suicide and it was unlimited) this is probably highly controversial and I'm willing to remove this if majority dislike it.
First I'm thrilled that people are still interested in this series since I'm the next host and I wasn't really sure if it would continue. I'm particularly happy to see some known faces from my short time at MS (except Fate cause I'm still bitter he single handily lynched me in Chrono Trigger ;)) and I'm proud to say I'm a Vi fan. I learned to design and host games mostly reading your guides.
I wasn't really following the game but I felt very strongly that the pace was glacial, come on how many days we had on Day 1? I think we broke a new record or something. I think Zion should've been stricter with the deadlines and maybe prods (). I'm particularly talking about this because I'm a advocate of a quicker pace in mafia games, I think that games get much more enjoyable when stuff is happening all the time (fast and furious) so it's harder for players to get bored and lose interest. I design my games/rules with this in mind. Because of that my games are usually quicker and have less posts than usual.
I'm talking about this because to me it will be an honor to host a game to such a fantastic group of players and I want it to run flawlessy so I want to ask about feedback for you guys about my rule set. So please check it out and provide feedback until I'm still able to tweak it. I've created this rule set mixing some things I found enjoyable from mods both from MS and here.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zUAdSkMP52CaufNcz-tqw3tN5Lw0NaCQnKG1cHg00t0/edit
@about ISO feature, actually we have a way to do MS style ISOs here, it's just more complicated than there (btw it would be sweet if Curse implemented MS's ISO). Just create a blank search with just the name of a player, all his posts will be shown in inverse time order.
Specialities are not the place just for "complex or innovative" games anymore, this has changed when the normal queue was restructured. I also think that contrary to popular belief games get more enjoyable the less complexity they have, and yes this includes veterans. New World Order for the win.
Also maybe now is the time for yet another discussion for the betterment of the forums. In MS all games have a cap time for the signups. If I remember well its two weeks, and after that games that are not filled are postponed for the next in line.
I think it's a healthy way to guarantee no game get stuck in the signups forever without hard feelings and that players are not forced to join just for the queue to move on (which is bad). How about one week for small games (12 or less players) and two weeks for big games?
Also lifting the "one at a time" requirement is a big mistake since it will just make both games have a hard time filling.
I don't like to say bad stuff about games that haven't even finished, but since everyone is doing there's no need to hold back... I think this game will play terrible since it does mix a lot of bad ideas together: twice to lynch, random lynching, multiple accounts to play (everyone who has played with a gimmick know how prone to error and tiring this become eventually), way too many players.
At least ZDS reviewed it so it's probably balanced.
1)By creating a dichotomy of themselves they guarantee a scum lynch toDay.
2)When one scum goes down it's 100% easier to catch the others in comparison to games with zero scum caught. The first scum is always the hardest.
3)Why prolong the game for one more day when you can end it now? Scum always want to end the game now than later.
TLDR: Iso either is confirmed town or we lose and I have no regrets. I will never in hell let him be lynched after this.
That's a gross simplification of my thought process, I didn't clear Karn because "scum aren't willing to reread to investigate anyone", it's quite deeper than that but I'm lazy to explain because I have difficulty with explaining myself and your language so find and reread my previous post about this and try to understand my reasoning, if you still have doubts return to me and I will expand.