@R3doxNL, I think that not playing the full set of Faithless Lootings is a mistake. Whats the reason behind that decision? Also, what did you substitute it for? Sorry if you've already explained it.
One thing to be aware though when playing against Thing in the Ice is whether you have a Conflagrate in the graveyard. When I was playing the Pyromancer Ascension deck, I often would flip Thing only for my Dredge opponent to get a conflag in the bin and destroy me from 12+ life.
So what is the grave hate we should be playing? I've seen Memory's Journey, Bog and Leyline. I feel like Leyline takes at least 3 SB slots, but is a bit better than Bog, but Bog can be played as a 1-2 of.
I think that Leyline is really good if you're playing the full set of Bridges (as it prevents your opponent from removing the Bridges) but as a 4-of. Otherwise, I would agree that either 2 bogs or 2 memory's journey is enough.
Brige from below. So. This card is what makes game 1 against burn "winnable" and makes Thought-Knot seer look like a pile of crap. It makes creature matchups super lop sided, and it has the added benefit of "maybe my opponent screws up". After practicing a TONNE with it, i ended up cutting 1 haunted dead for a conflag (from 2 dead to 1) which with 4 bridges in the deck, is a mistake. Discarding a bridge "on command" gives you a "surprise factor" that makes the card a lot better. I would have wanted 2 dead and i knew it, but it was really tough to take something out so i didn´t (mainly because i would have wanted another land too, just in case).
You're playing Bridges, without Gargadons? How good are they without the free sac outlet? Won't creatures trading in combat, or a Burn player point a burn spell at their own creature just exile all of them?
On another note, what do people think about Scrapyard Scrounger? I haven't much discussion about it here, but surely it has some potential in this deck, right?
I do agree that the red gearhulk and new Nissa are pretty good for the deck, just gotta wait till next week before I get to play with em. My LGS doesn't allow new cards until their actual release date. Can't wait to test em out. =)
The fastlands would make the UR version far better. I just don't feel the white splash is better than having Blood Moon in the SB.
@KingBrago,
I feel that this deck is better suited to be aggro/combo, rather than combo/control. Our spells aren't high impact enough to make the inclusion of Snapcaster Mage truly worth it.
I feel like GDD is a win more card. It is a worse finisher than Inferno Titan and Stormbreath Dragon. It doesn't help us survive against Burn/Aggro like Thragtusk and Baloth. As for card advantage, the Garruks and Chandra are much better. Land destruction starts to lose effectiveness later in the game. The game we lose, IMO, are those where we manage to land some early landD, but fail to find a threat to close out the game before they are able to rebuild. Having said that, if you're going for a budget version of the deck, similar to one SaffronOlive posted on MtGGoldfish, then yes, GDD is a suitable candidate. Otherwise, there are more than enough better alternative available to fill the slots in the deck.
@D90Dennis14: Did you do any more testing with Trinisphere? I also think it pairs greatly with our LD. Especially landing one T2 which means they can't cast anything (if we're on the play) and we can follow it up with T3 land destruction. It also hoses down decks like Infect, Death Shadow Aggro etc. which are dense with 1 CMC spells.
Again, I feel Trinisphere is also win more. What would you replace for it though?
Im thinking about sanctity myself after losing straight rounds to burn with gnaw in hand all post g1.
I guess it makes sense to hedge against Burn now since Dredge mirrors are infrequent. What else would you bring the leylines in against though? Do we really care about T1 discard from Abzan/Jund? Or is it specifically for the Burn matchup?
Revival is one of those things that you either like or dislike in the deck. It gives a way to win against an infinite life combo, but when I play(ed?) 2 in the deck, I found that they don't really do enough. Plus, if you're using them to "regrowth" a threat/trigger Ascension, the 2 life might not always be irrelevant. If you were to watch Sam Black's post-game wrap up, he mentions that the revivals were not really a big deal. The slots that they occupy in the deck are the flex slots. Feel free to test it out. However, if you really want to play them, I think would be better to treat them as actual combo pieces and play 3, just so that you could actually find them consistently to go off.
If you dislike Visions, the usual substitute is Sleight of Hand.
Jacob Baugh's list that made T16 in SCG Orlando had 4 Leyline of Sanctity in the SB. What do you guys think about that? Could it be that SCG made a mistake and that they are actually Leyline of the Void ?
I was thinking about building this deck, not sure what other sideboard cards i want right now so that is a work in progress. I know my build isnt running Ascension but this was the closest thread i could find. Would love some feedback on the deck because its either this, or Nacatyl Burn for what i build next.
I think your list is more suitable in the Burn page. I'm sure there will be some discussion on Naya vs Jeskai vs traditional Burn there. Unfortunately, Burn plays a little different than this deck, even though they both might seem similar, but each deck has its own pros and cons. I'm fairly certain that the decklist you posted is more closely related to Burn than it is to our deck here, so posting there might get you more useful feedback, rather than steering our Ascension deck discussions off course. Having said that, I might be wrong though, what does everybody else think?
I have Sleight of Hand in the deck instead of Visions of Beyond. I also went down to 2 Faithless Looting since I also run Izzet Charm. Sleight of Hand is effectively "draw 2, discard (put on bottom) 1". Visions are great once my graveyard is full but I have often found myself wanting to cast them earlier than that just to get a new card or transform Thing in the Ice.
I am trying to avoid going too heavy on Sorceries as I want to be able to Transform Thing in the Ice on an opponent's end step or in response to removal if needed so I will see how this list plays with Probes, Serum Visions, Faithless Looting, and Sleight of Hand.
Back on topic, I feel that Sleigh vs Visions is up to personal decklist preference. I think that if you're going for Thing maindeck, then Visions is slightly better due to the ability to transform at instant speed. However, if you follow Sam Black's list with Swiftspears main and Thing in the SB, then Sleight is far superior.
Also, WHEE~~~ 100th post after years of Skulking on MTGS forums =).
I mean, if you manage to draw into a Titan or Dragon, or have a T2 Blood Moon on the play, then you're already winning and KWR doesn't really matter. Its those games where you get the "ramp deck problem (TM)" of having only ramp cards where KWR truly shines coz Arbor Elf and BoP become actual clocks. I'm not actually playing Dragon coz I prefer having maindeck Baloth and Thragtusk due to the heavy Burn and Abzan presence in my LGS meta. For those creatures, the trample REALLY matters, especially against Souls. Being able to trade with a Goyf is also a plus.
Having said that, I have only played 1 event (3 matches; 7 games) since I added KWR to the deck. So far, it has yet to result in me needing to Mulligan, nor has it actually hindered my mana development.
I have considered playing 1 Slime maindeck as a bullet for Primal Command. I would probably only really add it if Worship becomes popular. I think the Sabertooth combo is a little too cute.
Don't really like the Ravine. Not much point in playing it as just a 1-of. Also, it comes into play tapped. IMO, the best thing about Wolf-Run, isn't that it gives us something to do with the excess man (i.e. mana sink), but rather that it makes all the anaemic creatures so much better later in the game. Trample is also HUGELY relevant against Lingering Souls.
It has for me. Arbor Elf beatdown. Birds too. Very useful when you've blown up a few of the opponent's land, but haven't drawn into a win condition. Making full use of extra mana, turning it into relevant damage keeps the pressure up on the opponent.
I think that Leyline is really good if you're playing the full set of Bridges (as it prevents your opponent from removing the Bridges) but as a 4-of. Otherwise, I would agree that either 2 bogs or 2 memory's journey is enough.
Mods are gonna merge this and the old thread, right?
You're playing Bridges, without Gargadons? How good are they without the free sac outlet? Won't creatures trading in combat, or a Burn player point a burn spell at their own creature just exile all of them?
On another note, what do people think about Scrapyard Scrounger? I haven't much discussion about it here, but surely it has some potential in this deck, right?
How have the Trinisphere been going for you?
I do agree that the red gearhulk and new Nissa are pretty good for the deck, just gotta wait till next week before I get to play with em. My LGS doesn't allow new cards until their actual release date. Can't wait to test em out. =)
@KingBrago,
I feel that this deck is better suited to be aggro/combo, rather than combo/control. Our spells aren't high impact enough to make the inclusion of Snapcaster Mage truly worth it.
I feel like GDD is a win more card. It is a worse finisher than Inferno Titan and Stormbreath Dragon. It doesn't help us survive against Burn/Aggro like Thragtusk and Baloth. As for card advantage, the Garruks and Chandra are much better. Land destruction starts to lose effectiveness later in the game. The game we lose, IMO, are those where we manage to land some early landD, but fail to find a threat to close out the game before they are able to rebuild. Having said that, if you're going for a budget version of the deck, similar to one SaffronOlive posted on MtGGoldfish, then yes, GDD is a suitable candidate. Otherwise, there are more than enough better alternative available to fill the slots in the deck.
Again, I feel Trinisphere is also win more. What would you replace for it though?
I guess it makes sense to hedge against Burn now since Dredge mirrors are infrequent. What else would you bring the leylines in against though? Do we really care about T1 discard from Abzan/Jund? Or is it specifically for the Burn matchup?
Revival is one of those things that you either like or dislike in the deck. It gives a way to win against an infinite life combo, but when I play(ed?) 2 in the deck, I found that they don't really do enough. Plus, if you're using them to "regrowth" a threat/trigger Ascension, the 2 life might not always be irrelevant. If you were to watch Sam Black's post-game wrap up, he mentions that the revivals were not really a big deal. The slots that they occupy in the deck are the flex slots. Feel free to test it out. However, if you really want to play them, I think would be better to treat them as actual combo pieces and play 3, just so that you could actually find them consistently to go off.
If you dislike Visions, the usual substitute is Sleight of Hand.
I think your list is more suitable in the Burn page. I'm sure there will be some discussion on Naya vs Jeskai vs traditional Burn there. Unfortunately, Burn plays a little different than this deck, even though they both might seem similar, but each deck has its own pros and cons. I'm fairly certain that the decklist you posted is more closely related to Burn than it is to our deck here, so posting there might get you more useful feedback, rather than steering our Ascension deck discussions off course. Having said that, I might be wrong though, what does everybody else think?
Back on topic, I feel that Sleigh vs Visions is up to personal decklist preference. I think that if you're going for Thing maindeck, then Visions is slightly better due to the ability to transform at instant speed. However, if you follow Sam Black's list with Swiftspears main and Thing in the SB, then Sleight is far superior.
Also, WHEE~~~ 100th post after years of Skulking on MTGS forums =).
Having said that, I have only played 1 event (3 matches; 7 games) since I added KWR to the deck. So far, it has yet to result in me needing to Mulligan, nor has it actually hindered my mana development.
I have considered playing 1 Slime maindeck as a bullet for Primal Command. I would probably only really add it if Worship becomes popular. I think the Sabertooth combo is a little too cute.