If alignments remain untouched, you're in the same boat. IB seems adverse to being shot, whereas you were actively trying to get someone to shoot you (and specifically not lynch you) before. That bothers me a bit.
Quote from Iso »
No, our roles were entirely switched, though alignment remained untouched. I'm now the Elemental of Wind. I have his flavor and everything - and he is now the Elemental of Time, and has my flavor and all that.
Wait a second...
You specifically said:
Quote from Iso »
In addition, the existence of the ability that IB used on me strongly suggests that there is no anti-town Neutral, as that information would be included in the role PM flavor, and not only would that equal an auto-lynch, said Neutral would probably no longer be able to obtain their win condition.
My actual flavor doesn't in any way indicate alignment, and this game is supposed to keep flavor and alignment independant. (The quote from the signup thread was "Almost all roles have been designed to be able to play as either alignment. After all players have been randomly assigned a role, a mafia will be randomly selected from among them.")
Why would you think it would be different for a neutral?
Quote from Iso »
Well, unless dan and I were scum together (lol interactions), the only way this could be proven is if an ability against IB gets delayed or I use my new ability - which I can't use until Spring/Autumn...
...You're still missing my point, though. We can use ANY ability on IB, and the result will return "Unknown" until the next phase of the same type - we don't necessarily have to kill him to prove (now) his ability.
I will concede this, and I'm all for a non-lethal ability to be aimed at him. None have presented yet.
I'd like you to address the bolded above. Like, ASAP.
So is the way I was going about trying to obtain my ability the ONLY reason you thought I was a Neutral?
It was the overwhelming primary reason, yes.
Quote from Artifice »
I appreciate this line of logic. Now you need to determine if the Mod was available. Can you do that?
ZindaMod was most likely on, as he posted his votecount at 10:51. So this is absolutely reasonable that all three parties were present and doing their thing. Iso, I apologize for going down this road un-necessarily.
Quote from Iso »
In addition, the existence of the ability that IB used on me strongly suggests that there is no anti-town Neutral, as that information would be included in the role PM flavor, and not only would that equal an auto-lynch, said Neutral would probably no longer be able to obtain their win condition.
This I don't get. I thought it was only abilities that were revealed and switched?
Quote from IB »
You were, yes. But are you really calling it an OMGUS? Not sure how that works, DJC.
Well, the first time I call suspicion on you, you turn around and IGMEOY, claiming evidence that I still don't see as being verifiable. I'll give you that after looking at the timeline thing again, it now seems reasonable that things actually played out the way they did, so I'll give you that.
I would like to know how you can back up your caims surrounding this whole exchange, though. Like, with verifiable proof.
Quote from IB »
Additionally, your post leads me to believe that you are saying that Iso and I are the last two scum and orchestrated our entire interaction. Is this an accurate representation of your argument?
No. My argument is that I don't trust the exchange between you and Iso. I had been suspecting Iso of non-town behavior, and when you replaced in, the two of you seemed to have a great time riffing on each-other over this. That, plus the lack of confirmation means that I'm not sure what's happening, but I'm looking at it. Thus the unvote on Iso and the FoS on you both.
Quote from IB »
Are you drawing a dichotomy between Iso and I? Please explain your reasoning a bit better because your entire line of "Kill IB, if he's town, Iso is scum so kill Iso" runs completely against any thought process I can imagine that is townie. Are you also implying that if I were to flip scum that you would consider Iso town? Are you drawing a dichotomy or are you assuming Iso is scum either way? If you're assuming Iso is scum no matter what, what is your rationale for targeting me?
You have me incorrect again. My reasoning is simple; Iso supposedly passed you an ability that he claims will (possibly among other things) take a vig and "delay' it for a day. If we vig you and you immediately die, we have proof that Iso lied, and my belief that he's an anti-town role will hold water. (Your full reread would show that I believe him to likely be a neutral due to the way he was breadcrumbing and trying to get his role active) If you live, we have proof that Iso was telling the truth, which as I said will make me feel a lot better about him.
Why you'd jump in and pull that switch of all things in such an abrupt way is something altogether different.
Quote from Pale Mage »
More people should join me in voting Archmage Eternal.
I still don't like AE's game. Or serious lack thereof.
DJ, I've given you as much information about my previous and current role as I can short of PM quoting - I was very specific when I claimed at L-2 as Indazeel.
It's also not unprovable - if either of us die, he'll flip Indazeel and I'll flip whatever the hell my new dude's name is. (Akaramol? I'd have to check my new role PM again.)
The issue for me is that, if I'm reading this all correctly, you two didn't switch alignments or be made aware of the other's alignment. The only thing that's changed is that you two have supposedly switched abilities. That doesn't confirm anything to start with, and what it does hint at is not particularly important at this point.
Quote from Iso »
Again, I have no idea at all why IB's ability worked on me, except that zindabad said it wasn't an error on his behalf and that he wouldn't tell me why the ability was allowed to work when I still have Out of Sync active.
This is why I asked you to review and re-explain both your new ability and your old one as specifically as you can. Because something does not add up right now. Either you're lying about your old ability, nothing happened, or IB is blocking you.
Quote from Iso »
Pretty sure it's supposed to be under-the-table, and as such, didn't move the Clock.
An active ability that completely switches abilities, and it doesn't move the clock? I have a hard time believing this.
Quote from Iso »
Also, firstly, why are you so eager for either IB or myself to die, especially since IB has verified my entire claim to be true?
Here's the thing -you're asking me to take the word of a new player who just showed up, supposedly used a fairly strong active ability that somehow didn't move the clock while you had a passive ability that supposedly should have deflected this exact instance further on into the game (but didn't), and as a result there's no mod-confirmed proof anything happened?
Compound this with the way you guys seemed to immediately hit it off, and how eager he was to target you, and then how mad your reaction was, followed up with a near instantaneous freak out, followed up by you then trying to clear him back?
And you're wondering why I'm not fully trusting all of this?
The time-stamps on the exchange are really close together too:
@10:07 -
Quote from IB »
I intend on confirming Iso once I'm done with my reread.
@10:11 -
Quote from Iso »
Are you confirming my ability or my alignment?
Am I going to have my ability after you confirm it and your own ability resolves against me on Day 4?
@10:22 -
Quote from IB »
Based on ZinaMod's explaining, both.
You will not have your ability any longer, but you will not be vanilla.
@10:24 -
Quote from Iso »
Oh well. So wait, what the hell is going to happen? Walk me through it, please. 'Cuz I'd love to still be able to become an Unkillable triple voter.
@10:27 -
Quote from IB »
I'd love to walk you through it, but I'd rather not walk everyone through it. Suffice it to say, you'll understand better once it happens.
@10:29 -
Quote from Iso »
Alrighty. Is it a Day ability? If so, can't wait. Is everyone else going to know I'm town or just you?
@10:30 -
Quote from IB »
Just me. But I plan on sharing.
@10:32 -
Quote from Iso »
Bah, alright.
Hope you plan to survive 'til Day 4, then.
@10:40 -
Quote from Iso »
Oh what the hell.
If you're scum, we're ****ed.
@10:41 -
Quote from Iso »
...well, guys, I am no longer Indazeel, the Elemental of Time. infectiousbaloth is.
So all this went down that quickly...including Mod intervention to make it all go down, it all happens in a half hour while you both are active on the forum?
Yeah...that's why I'm suggesting that we vig IB, so that we can verify if you were lying about your ability or not. I don't particularly trust him either right now. I don't see another way to legitamately prove it. If the vig is pushed off a day, I'll feel *much* better about you.
Quote from Iso »
Do you disagree with my assessment of his mindset in regards to swapping roles with me? If so, why?
I don't think it's a tell one way or the other. He supposedly stole an unkillable triple voter ability (assuming it gets active), and I'm supposed to feel good about that? It's a full-on WIFOM scenario.
Quote from Iso »
Secondly, why are you paying so little attention to how the roles have been working in this game?
You're absolutely right here. I'll give you that. I should have this stuff down better; my brain tends to grasp that we have two cops, and that one is a random target. The seasonal thing has been throwing me off all along.
----------------
Quote from IB »
Um, what? Vig me and if I'm town, Iso's not town? Even though I confirmed that he was telling the truth? DJC, I don't care for this post at all. EGMEOY.
First off - just because you said Iso is confirmed doesn't magically make it stone truth. Without an ability that moves the clock, there's no mod-given proof anything happened, and I've made my case as to why I'm not comfortable with this.
Vig you, and if you live through it, Iso wasn't lying about his ability and you still have another day to do what you want. And since we know you guys didn't swap or reveal alignment, we know that we're not going to let an unkillable triple vote slip into possible scum hands. If you immediately drop dead, Iso lied, and we've caught what I still believe to be most likely a non-town aligned neutral.
Wasn't I on the top of your "town" list the last I checked? I'll see your "EGMEOY" and raise you an "OMGUS".
I think my biggest bout of confusion involving the ability IB used against me is that it was not delayed for an entire phase as I was told it would be from my initial role PM.
For the record, that and this:
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Iso is claiming an active ability (in his new role PM) that moves the Clock zero spaces. This gives you another example to work from.
...were the two things that I had in mind when I asked you to claim, Iso, with the second one being the main issue I had in mind. Can you go back and be *very* specific as to how both abilities were supposed to work?
-I don't like the exchange between Iso and IB. I don't like that IB appears to be someone that Iso has previous history with, and the two of them run the whole song and dance in a hurry.
-I don't like that it's essentially un-provable what actually happened if the clock doesn't move.
-Based on the first part above, I have to believe Iso was not truthful about his "deflect to tomorrow" ability.
-I also have a very hard time believing that a major active ability like that didn't move the clock.
-Don't like the Iso self-immolation post either.
You know what? We should vig IB right now. It will prove or disprove Iso's previous claim on the spot, and we can move on immediately knowing whether or not he's been lying. If IB drops dead and flips town, we have a very reasonable indicator on Iso not being town.
Alternately, Kpaca cops IB tonight, and we wait it out, but there are s many leaks possible in that plan that it feels just as bad.
unvote for now, but FoS Iso *and* IB until this fleshes out a bit more.
26-27: Votes vezok, then promptly turns around and votes DRey "because I can't spell apparently". Because DRey and vezokpiraka are easy names to confuse? Feels forced.
The added "(Trying to hit all the bases here.)" also baffles me a bit. (For context, this was right after DRey/Zas blew up in their faces.) What these two posts suggest to me is an intention to vote for a specific person independent of the context that he flubbed. No reason to make 27 if you're just making a random vote, which is what 26 looks like - much less add the two qualifiers.
In post #26, I mis-spelled "reunion", which was a reference to the fact that (as I also already explained) I tend to use my RVS votes as "sout outs" to players I've tangled with in past games.
Quote from LC »
38: "Worst scum-slip of all time" doesn't usually follow an unvote - which is important, I think, considering DRey was scum. The fact that he wants more from Zas I think is important, since the original debacle was scum theater.
It does when we've moved out of RVS. Which was what was happening in my mind with the whole "scum-slip" thing. Why do you think the unvote is what's critical here? And what's wrong with asking for more from Zasz, *especially* considering that he flipped the way he did?
Quote from LC »
71: ...and he fumbles the explanation. The line:
I'm disagreeing with Kpaca, because that was terribly-terrible if it was an out-in-the-open coach.
I'm disagreeing with Kpaca, because that was terribly-terrible if it was an out-in-the-open coach.
The "terribly-terrible" bit sounds like a dodge - it doesn't say anything about DRey/Zas' alignment, it just says they screwed it up (which they did). And as kpaca notes in 78, the implication actually supports them being scum - suggesting he unvoted to relieve pressure from the wagon building at the time.
How is this a 'fumble'? I wasn't going after Drey or Zasz...I was going after Kpaca for his accusation. I didn't think at the time that they were scum, which I explained in my reply to Iso's case already.
Quote from LC »
He also makes another strong statement on Wessel, and then says he has "no honest read yet". Setting aside the awkward "honest", this kind of wishy-washy tone is classic scum (if you want to see some, go look at my Day 1 play in Kitten Star Trek.)
Explained in my reply to Iso...but you're attacking me here for not having a solid read on the first page of the game and on my first interaction with someone?
Quote from LC »
127: I don't buy the coaching explanation. He says he was being sarcastic and that it was clearly not coaching. But that doesn't gel with this original lines:
If that's coaching, it's the worst scum-slip of all time.
I'm disagreeing with Kpaca, because that was terribly-terrible if it was an out-in-the-open coach.
Both of these (the bolded parts) leave open the possibility that it wasn't a coach. This claim that he knew all along and was testing kpaca is disingenuous at best, and more likely a lie.
Already addressed several times over, but these mesh just fine if you take my explanation that I was sarcastic in the first quote. Where did I ever say I knew it was a coach all along? I didn't think it was (and fought for my point of view strongly) until just recently, and in light of the scum reveals.
And where did I say I was testing Kpaca?!?!?!?
Quote from LC »
Plus there's the choice bit about Zas:
Quote from LC »
As for "looking for more from Zaz"...as I said, I didn;t think that was coaching, so I wanted more content to get a read. At this point...null, but he does happen to be the only real active topic.
As for "looking for more from Zaz"...as I said, I didn;t think that was coaching, so I wanted more content to get a read. At this point...null, but he does happen to be the only real active topic. Explains his fence-sitting as waiting for more content, then proceeds to fence-sit again!
There's a drastic difference between fence-sitting and being asked for a point of view on a specific interaction and calling that interaction a null tell.
Quote from LC »
159: Oh, so he reacted to the misspelling of "reunion", which... doesn't appear in 27 at all. And he felt the need to vote again? That doesn't make sense. I could understand if he changed his vote to dodge a spam warning, but he doesn't say that, he gives this half-baked "anal about proper spelling" bit.
Hooray...you've got it now. But again, you're a post late. The mention of the misspelling in the second RVS vote was in response to the first one. And again...RVS. You're familiar with what those letters mean, right?
Looking at AE in reverse posting order is really un-nerving. This is a polar opposite to what my few experiences have been in games with him. Dropping in once aweek or so to point out that he's not into the game doesn't help town at all; the actual content has been a similar level of involvement, and no follow-through. I wish I had more to say here, but I don't have any meat to base anything off of. Looking to read more of the early posting as time permits tomorrow, but my feeling right now is fueled by nothing other than the fact that the other games I've played with AE have seen him nearly in the driver's seat IIRC.
I can't get behind shooting iLord at this point. My gut says town, although I fully admit that I haven't been paying him a ton of attention as of late for the same reason. I'll read here after I finish on AE, but I'm not supporting a decision here until I do.
@PM, anyone else looking for my dissection of the LC case on me:
Sorry for the delay. I simply have not been available to post from my home computer in the past few days. I'm not running from this at all, and I'll do a PBPA response as soon as is possible.
You have many posts. Feel free to link me up to the scumhunting if you feel I have missed it. I have a reason why I haven't been real interested in you, but it isn't a strong investigative record.
That's actually reasonable. I've admittedly not been a strong hunter in this game. The beginning of this game is a mess for me for RL reasons, and I've only been able to sink in with the day today.
Of that, I've been looking at Iso front and center, which is also admittedly not new ground for the game. I'm trying as i can to re-read on my phone during the day, and what I'm looking for at current is whether he sits as scum or some level of neutral. (To that end, @Wessel, I'd also like to know why you think there aren't neutrals...)
In reading, I started thinking about Brin and AE, which was why I started asking Brin questions in the last couple of days. AE is nearly absent, so I'm re-reading him in the early game. He was "cleared" by Brin with a limited cop claim, and I'm not quite necessarily sold there. I'll explain why once I have a better feel for the early game on both.
That said:
Quote from Brinatoo »
I will remind you that I have no control over whom is targeted.
When I asked you about this a few days ago, you decided to tell me you were a taco that crapped ice cream. Why the change of heart today versus then?
Quote from Brinatoo »
Of DJC, iLord, Iso, dan, and Art- who would you want to be lynched and who do you refuse to lynch.
Why is Art on this list? I can understand the rest based on current interest and votecount, but *you've* got more votes than he does.
I didn't say fishy. I said circumstantial-but-troubling. At the very least, it makes it look worse when you complained about the game stagnating.
The bolded above is a completely different thing than what you said. I'm *not* ok with is you trying to point at my documented absences as being a valid reason to call me out.
As for this, if I'm here, and the game is stagnating, I'll call it what it is. But I have far less personal issue with you making a comment like this, rather than the one you did.
As for Niv, you were his most visible suspect before he died. Scum have an incentive to shoot their critics. It's also circumstantial, but I think it's worth at least noting that nobody else fits the metaphorical bill there.
This is absolutely the textbook definition of WIFOM.
Taken in context, I'm the guy that gets into a drunken altarcation with Niv, screams "I'll kill you you bastard!" as we're being separated, and then the cops find his body in a dumpster behind the bar the next day.
Quote from Liquidity Crisis »
1) It's not obvious that he has a secret objective.
?!?!?!?!?! Is this a sacrastic reply, or are you serious here?
Quote from Liquidity Crisis »
Which is why you'd normally check other games to confirm! Which is why it's so strange that you didn't! Doubly so when the behaviors you noticed are so typical of bad scum.
In light of this, what were your thoughts on my other games?
Quote from Pale Mage »
I'd kinda like to see you respond to his points he's presented so far since you have the time to post. I can relate to a busy life, and if it's going to be a while before we get to see what a hunting DJ looks like it might be helpful to see how a DJ responds to attacks.
I'm more than happy to do this if this is really necessary, but I absolutely don't want to create a protracted situation where I'm giving LC things to respond to while he's still finishing his case. It turns the game thread into a total mess involving two or more different back-and-forths happening at the same time. I'd rather have a full case to speak to, and give him a single response.
I will say I responded to Iso and Niv fairly extensively, so it's honestly not that I'm dodging a response, and it's not that I haven't shown how I respond to attacks.
Can you speak to the bolded part above, though? I'm not sure where you come to that conclusion.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Thanks, I think. I have a remote, crackpot theory based on a move Brinatoo pulled in another game (as scum) that Brinatoo and AE could be the last two scum. Wouldn't that be amusing with all of us basically ignoring them?
Then again, there's no way to know as neither have said much since Day.
There's a reason I'm digging on Brin's cop reveal right now, and some parts of this are pretty spot on as to why.
To avoid filling this thread with three different back-and-forths over the same subject, I'm waiting untill you finish your whole case before I address it in full.
I will say that I asked for why you thought Niv's case had merit, and you instead responded with a whole case of your own, one that largely barns Iso's. I'd still like to know what you think regarding him, since that was your 'in' to attacking me. I'm also interested in (IIRC) your statement about me having the best reason to attack Niv as well.
For now, I'll continue with my own hunting, but I promise to respond to you in full when you finish. I'll certainly have things to say, not the least of which is regarding your contention that my absence was fishy while I was on business and taking care of my sick son. For the record -this game takes a back-seat to my family *every* goddamn time, and Mod will verify that I tried to replace out at that point to deal with things and not bog the game down for you guys, so drop that horse**** line of reasoning at any point.
Anyway, So I've been thinking of possibilities of there being two mafias.
The theories are kind of wild if I was to get into that, so disregarding those thoughts I only trust WoD, kpaca, and Alpha- the 3 that led to a scums death.
When I had done a bit of that reread, iLord's post struck me as town. His posts seemed logical- but that isn't necessarily always pro-town. I will continue this week and look for tells that are "too-knowledgeable" so to speak and look over what Iso had to say.
Why did you cop AE? What made him a better target over someone like Is, who was busy making a wild breadcrumb on his abilities? IIRC, AE was about in the same place at that point as he is now, which is nearly invisible...
If alignments remain untouched, you're in the same boat. IB seems adverse to being shot, whereas you were actively trying to get someone to shoot you (and specifically not lynch you) before. That bothers me a bit.
Wait a second...
You specifically said:
My actual flavor doesn't in any way indicate alignment, and this game is supposed to keep flavor and alignment independant. (The quote from the signup thread was "Almost all roles have been designed to be able to play as either alignment. After all players have been randomly assigned a role, a mafia will be randomly selected from among them.")
Why would you think it would be different for a neutral?
I will concede this, and I'm all for a non-lethal ability to be aimed at him. None have presented yet.
I'd like you to address the bolded above. Like, ASAP.
--->DJ
It was the overwhelming primary reason, yes.
ZindaMod was most likely on, as he posted his votecount at 10:51. So this is absolutely reasonable that all three parties were present and doing their thing. Iso, I apologize for going down this road un-necessarily.
This I don't get. I thought it was only abilities that were revealed and switched?
Well, the first time I call suspicion on you, you turn around and IGMEOY, claiming evidence that I still don't see as being verifiable. I'll give you that after looking at the timeline thing again, it now seems reasonable that things actually played out the way they did, so I'll give you that.
I would like to know how you can back up your caims surrounding this whole exchange, though. Like, with verifiable proof.
No. My argument is that I don't trust the exchange between you and Iso. I had been suspecting Iso of non-town behavior, and when you replaced in, the two of you seemed to have a great time riffing on each-other over this. That, plus the lack of confirmation means that I'm not sure what's happening, but I'm looking at it. Thus the unvote on Iso and the FoS on you both.
You have me incorrect again. My reasoning is simple; Iso supposedly passed you an ability that he claims will (possibly among other things) take a vig and "delay' it for a day. If we vig you and you immediately die, we have proof that Iso lied, and my belief that he's an anti-town role will hold water. (Your full reread would show that I believe him to likely be a neutral due to the way he was breadcrumbing and trying to get his role active) If you live, we have proof that Iso was telling the truth, which as I said will make me feel a lot better about him.
Why you'd jump in and pull that switch of all things in such an abrupt way is something altogether different.
I still don't like AE's game. Or serious lack thereof.
--->DJ
The issue for me is that, if I'm reading this all correctly, you two didn't switch alignments or be made aware of the other's alignment. The only thing that's changed is that you two have supposedly switched abilities. That doesn't confirm anything to start with, and what it does hint at is not particularly important at this point.
This is why I asked you to review and re-explain both your new ability and your old one as specifically as you can. Because something does not add up right now. Either you're lying about your old ability, nothing happened, or IB is blocking you.
An active ability that completely switches abilities, and it doesn't move the clock? I have a hard time believing this.
Here's the thing -you're asking me to take the word of a new player who just showed up, supposedly used a fairly strong active ability that somehow didn't move the clock while you had a passive ability that supposedly should have deflected this exact instance further on into the game (but didn't), and as a result there's no mod-confirmed proof anything happened?
Compound this with the way you guys seemed to immediately hit it off, and how eager he was to target you, and then how mad your reaction was, followed up with a near instantaneous freak out, followed up by you then trying to clear him back?
And you're wondering why I'm not fully trusting all of this?
The time-stamps on the exchange are really close together too:
@10:07 -
@10:11 -
@10:22 -
@10:24 -
@10:27 -
@10:29 -
@10:30 -
@10:32 -
@10:40 -
@10:41 -
So all this went down that quickly...including Mod intervention to make it all go down, it all happens in a half hour while you both are active on the forum?
Yeah...that's why I'm suggesting that we vig IB, so that we can verify if you were lying about your ability or not. I don't particularly trust him either right now. I don't see another way to legitamately prove it. If the vig is pushed off a day, I'll feel *much* better about you.
I don't think it's a tell one way or the other. He supposedly stole an unkillable triple voter ability (assuming it gets active), and I'm supposed to feel good about that? It's a full-on WIFOM scenario.
You're absolutely right here. I'll give you that. I should have this stuff down better; my brain tends to grasp that we have two cops, and that one is a random target. The seasonal thing has been throwing me off all along.
----------------
First off - just because you said Iso is confirmed doesn't magically make it stone truth. Without an ability that moves the clock, there's no mod-given proof anything happened, and I've made my case as to why I'm not comfortable with this.
Vig you, and if you live through it, Iso wasn't lying about his ability and you still have another day to do what you want. And since we know you guys didn't swap or reveal alignment, we know that we're not going to let an unkillable triple vote slip into possible scum hands. If you immediately drop dead, Iso lied, and we've caught what I still believe to be most likely a non-town aligned neutral.
Wasn't I on the top of your "town" list the last I checked? I'll see your "EGMEOY" and raise you an "OMGUS".
--->DJ
For the record, that and this:
...were the two things that I had in mind when I asked you to claim, Iso, with the second one being the main issue I had in mind. Can you go back and be *very* specific as to how both abilities were supposed to work?
-I don't like the exchange between Iso and IB. I don't like that IB appears to be someone that Iso has previous history with, and the two of them run the whole song and dance in a hurry.
-I don't like that it's essentially un-provable what actually happened if the clock doesn't move.
-Based on the first part above, I have to believe Iso was not truthful about his "deflect to tomorrow" ability.
-I also have a very hard time believing that a major active ability like that didn't move the clock.
-Don't like the Iso self-immolation post either.
You know what? We should vig IB right now. It will prove or disprove Iso's previous claim on the spot, and we can move on immediately knowing whether or not he's been lying. If IB drops dead and flips town, we have a very reasonable indicator on Iso not being town.
Alternately, Kpaca cops IB tonight, and we wait it out, but there are s many leaks possible in that plan that it feels just as bad.
unvote for now, but FoS Iso *and* IB until this fleshes out a bit more.
--->DJ
Grand-standing aside, I'd like you to claim. I have a very strong reason for asking for this that I'll gladly reveal after you do.
In specific, name claim and details on the swap ability that IB used on you.
--->DJ
I tagged back in in Flame Warriors. By PM-ing WoD, not proclaiming that I would in-thread.
It looks like a real cheap way of saying, 'Hey...proof I'm town! I can't be scum and replace back in, can I?"
--->DJ
In post #26, I mis-spelled "reunion", which was a reference to the fact that (as I also already explained) I tend to use my RVS votes as "sout outs" to players I've tangled with in past games.
It does when we've moved out of RVS. Which was what was happening in my mind with the whole "scum-slip" thing. Why do you think the unvote is what's critical here? And what's wrong with asking for more from Zasz, *especially* considering that he flipped the way he did?
How is this a 'fumble'? I wasn't going after Drey or Zasz...I was going after Kpaca for his accusation. I didn't think at the time that they were scum, which I explained in my reply to Iso's case already.
Explained in my reply to Iso...but you're attacking me here for not having a solid read on the first page of the game and on my first interaction with someone?
Already addressed several times over, but these mesh just fine if you take my explanation that I was sarcastic in the first quote. Where did I ever say I knew it was a coach all along? I didn't think it was (and fought for my point of view strongly) until just recently, and in light of the scum reveals.
And where did I say I was testing Kpaca?!?!?!?
There's a drastic difference between fence-sitting and being asked for a point of view on a specific interaction and calling that interaction a null tell.
Hooray...you've got it now. But again, you're a post late. The mention of the misspelling in the second RVS vote was in response to the first one. And again...RVS. You're familiar with what those letters mean, right?
More later on the second part.
--->DJ
My apologies...you did answer me already.
Was there a correct answer to this, Iso? You don't miss anything, and you're the king of researching and building giant PBPA cases.
Coach much?
confirm vote ten times over
Who does this *in-thread*, unless they're trying to draw up a cheap town parallel?
--->DJ
Looking at AE in reverse posting order is really un-nerving. This is a polar opposite to what my few experiences have been in games with him. Dropping in once aweek or so to point out that he's not into the game doesn't help town at all; the actual content has been a similar level of involvement, and no follow-through. I wish I had more to say here, but I don't have any meat to base anything off of. Looking to read more of the early posting as time permits tomorrow, but my feeling right now is fueled by nothing other than the fact that the other games I've played with AE have seen him nearly in the driver's seat IIRC.
I can't get behind shooting iLord at this point. My gut says town, although I fully admit that I haven't been paying him a ton of attention as of late for the same reason. I'll read here after I finish on AE, but I'm not supporting a decision here until I do.
@PM, anyone else looking for my dissection of the LC case on me:
Sorry for the delay. I simply have not been available to post from my home computer in the past few days. I'm not running from this at all, and I'll do a PBPA response as soon as is possible.
Did something get sorted, then? What's the sudden vote for?
--->DJ
Fair enough. If I don't see something by tomorrow night (I'm AFK for game night in Amherst tonight), I'll dig it and respond to current.
That's actually reasonable. I've admittedly not been a strong hunter in this game. The beginning of this game is a mess for me for RL reasons, and I've only been able to sink in with the day today.
Of that, I've been looking at Iso front and center, which is also admittedly not new ground for the game. I'm trying as i can to re-read on my phone during the day, and what I'm looking for at current is whether he sits as scum or some level of neutral. (To that end, @Wessel, I'd also like to know why you think there aren't neutrals...)
In reading, I started thinking about Brin and AE, which was why I started asking Brin questions in the last couple of days. AE is nearly absent, so I'm re-reading him in the early game. He was "cleared" by Brin with a limited cop claim, and I'm not quite necessarily sold there. I'll explain why once I have a better feel for the early game on both.
That said:
When I asked you about this a few days ago, you decided to tell me you were a taco that crapped ice cream. Why the change of heart today versus then?
Why is Art on this list? I can understand the rest based on current interest and votecount, but *you've* got more votes than he does.
--->DJ
The bolded above is a completely different thing than what you said. I'm *not* ok with is you trying to point at my documented absences as being a valid reason to call me out.
As for this, if I'm here, and the game is stagnating, I'll call it what it is. But I have far less personal issue with you making a comment like this, rather than the one you did.
This is absolutely the textbook definition of WIFOM.
Taken in context, I'm the guy that gets into a drunken altarcation with Niv, screams "I'll kill you you bastard!" as we're being separated, and then the cops find his body in a dumpster behind the bar the next day.
?!?!?!?!?! Is this a sacrastic reply, or are you serious here?
In light of this, what were your thoughts on my other games?
I'm more than happy to do this if this is really necessary, but I absolutely don't want to create a protracted situation where I'm giving LC things to respond to while he's still finishing his case. It turns the game thread into a total mess involving two or more different back-and-forths happening at the same time. I'd rather have a full case to speak to, and give him a single response.
I will say I responded to Iso and Niv fairly extensively, so it's honestly not that I'm dodging a response, and it's not that I haven't shown how I respond to attacks.
Can you speak to the bolded part above, though? I'm not sure where you come to that conclusion.
There's a reason I'm digging on Brin's cop reveal right now, and some parts of this are pretty spot on as to why.
--->DJ
To avoid filling this thread with three different back-and-forths over the same subject, I'm waiting untill you finish your whole case before I address it in full.
I will say that I asked for why you thought Niv's case had merit, and you instead responded with a whole case of your own, one that largely barns Iso's. I'd still like to know what you think regarding him, since that was your 'in' to attacking me. I'm also interested in (IIRC) your statement about me having the best reason to attack Niv as well.
For now, I'll continue with my own hunting, but I promise to respond to you in full when you finish. I'll certainly have things to say, not the least of which is regarding your contention that my absence was fishy while I was on business and taking care of my sick son. For the record -this game takes a back-seat to my family *every* goddamn time, and Mod will verify that I tried to replace out at that point to deal with things and not bog the game down for you guys, so drop that horse**** line of reasoning at any point.
--->DJ
Why did you cop AE? What made him a better target over someone like Is, who was busy making a wild breadcrumb on his abilities? IIRC, AE was about in the same place at that point as he is now, which is nearly invisible...
--->DJ
Sure...I'll bite. Why again? What about Niv's case 'still stands'?
--->DJ