Fae is always going to be a thorn in the side. If anyone remembers the end of the old standard where fae and 5cc was dominate, you may remember the fact that alot of people were boarding in Wydwen, the Biting Gale.
The theory being that playing threats like Wydwen and V. Clique on their turn forces them to either waste mana and counter it or find removal. Possibly leaving us an uninterupted turn to spend our man. Which is good in both the Fae and mirror matchs.
@BigblueJew: I won't repost my entire argument against Wren's Run Vanquisher, but its about 3 posts before yours. Can you dispute any of that with actual play experience?
It looks like you have a total of 11 "Elves", which seems pretty light, and I honestly wouldn't ever run more than 1 nameless Inversion. How often are you actually putting a Vanquisher down on turn 2?
Other notes
- Is there a reason you have no Reflecting Pools in your manabase? With KotR able to search them up, it seems almost criminal to avoid them for any reason other than budget. I think you can easily cut Gilt-Leaf Palace, which was necessary in standard, but isn't anymore since we have fetchlands now.
- How has Behemoth Sledge been working out for you? I cut it from my list after it repeatedly cost too much mana to cast/equip and be useful.
- How have Birds of Paradise been working out? Are they ever useful if you don't drop them on turn 1? I understand with Doran in play they can swing for 1 . . . but how often is that actually important?
- Depending on the meta, I think you should seriously consider a maindeck Bojuka Bog. With Vengevine, Demigod, Reveillark, and a bunch of persisty dudes . . your'e gonna want to empty the graveyard every once in a while.
J
I love Vanquisher, If my math is correct i have an approx. a 31% of having it on turn 2 and i have a decent chance of triggering it.So far I have not had a problem of casting it for 2 when I have it.
As for the Reflecting Pools, I am just trying to cut down on the non basics because Fulmanator is still in the format. I feel with the fetch lands I can cut down on the non basics. The Gilt-Leaf Palaces are decent, I was running 4 and I cut them to 2. They will probaly be gone by this weekend after some more testing. I am still trying to tweak the manabase and is the first on my list.
All i have to say about the sledge is it ends stalemates. I was testing against Fae tonight and when it hits the tables it just ends the games. Yes it is a 1 of so its not always consistant but I just like having the power to end the game on the spot.
The Birds are for the fact that I feel like we are "Zoo" deck in the format and we need to be as aggressice as possible. Having the extra mana just makes the deck that much faster. The only reason Birds, Nobles and Llanowars were not in the decks in Amsterdam is because of Punishing Fire/Grove. Since thats gone we can take advantage. With a Bird out we can power out doran faster than decks can mana leak it on the play and usally on the draw because of tap lands.
The bog is probaly going side board, I dont feel the effects of the graveyards being that powerful but atleast 1 will be side boarded. It may be moved to the main, and probaly will be.
@WNxChias- I love path, its one of the best removal spells ever. I run it because it fixes problems for good. Pulse will always be good, its just personal preference that I run 3. Nameless is still good and people underestimate it.
As for the Elspeth, I love her. I could just not justify the 3rd one.
I like the idea of a black splash but the way the meta is shaping up right now with vengevine and possibly affinity coming back...red is looking better and better....
so ive been thinking bout if affinity does come back what are we going to do...
shatter storm is to expensive. what else could we use??
According to Craig Wescoe, who played a very close list to this, the deck rolls on UW, and the only real way to lose that match up is landing a Linvala early in the game....
So i guess what I am getting at is Linvala, Keeper of Silence a main deck card. And what else are we going to do against this deck.
Cecilia- Do you think that the deck absolutely needs to have the Swords in them..... I have been testing a 4c Balance deck without the Swords and replacing them with the Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows combo.... I have been oblitorating Merfolk and Survival Vine.
I am just looking for some feedback and see what everyone thinks. I am really struggling with the sideboard...if anyone has any ideas I am open to the help
Maze Should be in the deck.....as well as atleast 3 Tectonic Edges....They are both good....
In the mirror match I had last Friday Night I held off my opponent's Colonnades with the Maze alone until I could hit a Tec Edge. It also stop Gideon from beating in your face.
Im not going to comment on the sideboard first off, everyone has what they think they need.
First- Cut a card to go to 60 I suggest something like the Time Sieve
Second- I understand that Dark Tutelage is tutorable but Dark Confidant is just better..... So I would -3 Dark Tutelage and -1 Counterspell for +4 Dark Confidants.
Last- I dont even think you need the wasteland....I would probaly drop it for the 4th counter balance
Heres a link to the list I think you would be very interested with
I really like this deck. I just dont know if I like the black splash or not. The Extipate would help in the mirror and against things like Reanimator. And I am not sure about the 4 Ethersworn Canonists sideboarded even though they seem really good against things like storm and ANT.
The theory being that playing threats like Wydwen and V. Clique on their turn forces them to either waste mana and counter it or find removal. Possibly leaving us an uninterupted turn to spend our man. Which is good in both the Fae and mirror matchs.
I love Vanquisher, If my math is correct i have an approx. a 31% of having it on turn 2 and i have a decent chance of triggering it.So far I have not had a problem of casting it for 2 when I have it.
As for the Reflecting Pools, I am just trying to cut down on the non basics because Fulmanator is still in the format. I feel with the fetch lands I can cut down on the non basics. The Gilt-Leaf Palaces are decent, I was running 4 and I cut them to 2. They will probaly be gone by this weekend after some more testing. I am still trying to tweak the manabase and is the first on my list.
All i have to say about the sledge is it ends stalemates. I was testing against Fae tonight and when it hits the tables it just ends the games. Yes it is a 1 of so its not always consistant but I just like having the power to end the game on the spot.
The Birds are for the fact that I feel like we are "Zoo" deck in the format and we need to be as aggressice as possible. Having the extra mana just makes the deck that much faster. The only reason Birds, Nobles and Llanowars were not in the decks in Amsterdam is because of Punishing Fire/Grove. Since thats gone we can take advantage. With a Bird out we can power out doran faster than decks can mana leak it on the play and usally on the draw because of tap lands.
The bog is probaly going side board, I dont feel the effects of the graveyards being that powerful but atleast 1 will be side boarded. It may be moved to the main, and probaly will be.
@WNxChias- I love path, its one of the best removal spells ever. I run it because it fixes problems for good. Pulse will always be good, its just personal preference that I run 3. Nameless is still good and people underestimate it.
As for the Elspeth, I love her. I could just not justify the 3rd one.
3 Plains
4 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Murmuring Bosk
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Putrid Leech
3 Wilt-Leaf Leige
3 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Chameleon Colossus
4 Loam Lion
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Elspeth, the Knight-Errant
2 Path to Exile
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Nameless Inversion
4 Oust
4 Pre-ordain
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Day of Judgement
3 Jace the Mind Scultoptor
2 Flashfreeze
2 Condem
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Volition Reins
2 Everflowing Chalice
2 Jace Berleen
1 Gideon Jura
2 Flash Freeze
4 Archive Trap*
3 Celestial Purges
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Revoke Existence
2 Luminarch Ascension
(*)Not sure seems good on paper needs more testing.
If you have any comments please feel free to Message me.
Edit* Stupidity set in and forgot the deck tags
so ive been thinking bout if affinity does come back what are we going to do...
shatter storm is to expensive. what else could we use??
Michael Lapine
2010 TCGplayer Wizard World Series - NYC
Type II Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Lotus Cobra
3 Nissa Revane
3 Nissa's Chosen
2 Genesis Wave
8 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Eldrazi Monument
4 Leyline of Vitality
4 Obstinate Baloth
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Sylvan Ranger
4 Tajuru Preserver
According to Craig Wescoe, who played a very close list to this, the deck rolls on UW, and the only real way to lose that match up is landing a Linvala early in the game....
So i guess what I am getting at is Linvala, Keeper of Silence a main deck card. And what else are we going to do against this deck.
3 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Punishing Fire
3 Counterbalance
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Daze
3 Fire Spout
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Trygon Preditor
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountian
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Meddling Mage
1 Hibernation
Heres an updated list that I am testing...I took out the 3rd Vendilion Clique and the 4th top for 2 Spell Pierces. In the side I added 3 Sword to Plowshare, 2 Meddling Mages, 1 Oblivion Ring and added 1 Hibernation for decks like N/O and survival.
Any comments and advise would greatly be appriciated.
~BBJ
4 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Punishing Fire
3 Counterbalance
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Daze
3 Fire Spout
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Trygon Preditor
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Preordain
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountian
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progentius
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Firespout
2 Meddling Mage
4 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Punishing Fire
4 Counterbalance
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Daze
4 Fire Spout
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Trygon Preditor
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Mountian
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progentius
2 Ancient Grudge
I am just looking for some feedback and see what everyone thinks. I am really struggling with the sideboard...if anyone has any ideas I am open to the help
1 back to basics
4 firespouts
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 COP: RED
1 Aura of Silence
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Runed Halo
As you can see I am 2 Cards short. I am looking for something good again Merfolk and the new Mosswart bridge deck
In the mirror match I had last Friday Night I held off my opponent's Colonnades with the Maze alone until I could hit a Tec Edge. It also stop Gideon from beating in your face.
Im not going to comment on the sideboard first off, everyone has what they think they need.
First- Cut a card to go to 60 I suggest something like the Time Sieve
Second- I understand that Dark Tutelage is tutorable but Dark Confidant is just better..... So I would -3 Dark Tutelage and -1 Counterspell for +4 Dark Confidants.
Last- I dont even think you need the wasteland....I would probaly drop it for the 4th counter balance
Heres a link to the list I think you would be very interested with
Counter-top Thopter by Josh Guibault
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of the Meek
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Tormod's Crypt
Enchantments
4 Counterbalance
1 Moat
1 Oblivion Ring
Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifact Lands
1 Seat of the Synod
Basic Lands
6 Island
2 Plains
Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
Legendary Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Back to Basics
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Humility
1 Serenity
1 Extirpate
2 Hydroblast