Once upon a time there was a discard deck that ran Noetic Scales and Null Broochfor a virtual soft-lock. The fact both cards are 4cc is kind of lame but I thought I would bring it up. Having negate on a stick in mono black seems really fun though.
yeah but f**k those LEDs. I'd have been on dredge if they didn't spiked up to the infinite... Legacy is just too much money. I'll hope to win dual lands with this deck (totally at random) in order to build something more "fair" like Delver strategies or who knows what else. For these months, i'll just ask if they have force of will, even if i'm not a SI player
Back in the day, I traded a 4th Ed. Bird of Paradise for 1 LED and a Cabal Therapy.
Is there a way to make this work in a mono black build? Is there anything that can be used to dig?
The version I play (got the list from my friend who also plays tournaments with the deck and does well) is mono black (main) with a splash of green in the sideboard. We got the original list from Michael Augustine that was featured last summer and have been working on it since. What we do agree on is that the deck is very strong if played properly with a well tuned list for your meta. There are so many details and possible plays you can make with the deck and it is really a pleasure to pilot. First of all, the list I play is something like this (i am constantly moving stuff around but generally this is what it looks like now.)
Your ideal hand will usually contain a discard spell, a couple of bells and a lantern. That should be enough to slow down your opponent until you can draw a bridge, tutor or sun droplet. If you are playing vs control that is enough to win unless they get very lucky or you don't play the cards right.
Codex Shredder does a lot of work. With lantern it lets you scry like the other bells but its second ability is often overlooked by people new to the deck. It has a built in regrowth for 5 mana which is relevant since getting back a destroyed or milled bridge is very very good.
Pithing Needle is a must in the main to shore up the affinity match up since they can attack with 0 power creatures and move over ravager counters, instant speed equip cranial plating or just attack with thropters and signal pest. Darkblast is also there to pick off signal pest and other problem creatures like dark confidant and grim lavamancer. One in the maindeck and up to 2 more in the board for matchups where they do work.
My friend plays 2x Surgical Extraction in his MD as he claims it has downright won him quite a few games by extracting a key card milled by his opponent.
It is very late here but I would like to continue discussing the deck, perhaps again soon.
Hey folks, been absent for a while. With the banning of Treasure Cruise I'm itching to jump back into the discard game. A few questions:
Darkblast in the SB, am I missing something? Some people are running a full 4, what 1 toughness targets are you primarily shooing away?
Waste Not: have people given up on this guy? I see Pack Rat is still popular, and given how creature heavy the meta is I would think Waste Not would be dumping out some serious Zombies.
Darkblast comes in usually for affinity and any deck running Noble Hierarch. The point is to nuke 0/1 problem creatures that can facilitate attacking under a hellbent ensnaring bridge (signal pest, ornithropter + instant speed cranial plating, or 0/1 with exalted trigger.
I doubt Ugin will have a place in this deck. We already have access to a better walker in Karn, and most lists don't even play him.
As for the argument that he is a board wipe, O-stone is already better at that job, since we can cast it for 3, pass the turn, and blow it during combat or EOT step, holding up counters and buying another turn while leaving 5 mana open to counter a gamechanger. All that and we can already recur it with ruins, search it out with fabricate, and discard it to thirst. All which we can't do with Ugin.
Karn is a better walker than Ugin in RG Tron, but in Mono U Tron Ugin is far superior due to the fact that we seldom produce 7 mana on turn 3 consistently. Karn is insane in RG Tron as its early presence makes it hard for opponents to come back, while in Mono U Tron it comes out too late to impact the board much by then. Ugin on the other hand wipes and threatens the opponent immediately after casting so I would say it is better than Karn in this deck.
I agree with you about Ugin being better in this deck specifically, but I meant a better planeswalker as in Karn is just a more powerful planeswalker in a vacuum. I still can't imagine playing either in this deck. I hope I am proven wrong as its always fun to have a new toy for the deck.
Must be a mistake with the decklist. No way he would run 2 main and 2 sb dread return targets with no reanimation spells. Weird. And he came first place...
I doubt Ugin will have a place in this deck. We already have access to a better walker in Karn, and most lists don't even play him.
As for the argument that he is a board wipe, O-stone is already better at that job, since we can cast it for 3, pass the turn, and blow it during combat or EOT step, holding up counters and buying another turn while leaving 5 mana open to counter a gamechanger. All that and we can already recur it with ruins, search it out with fabricate, and discard it to thirst. All which we can't do with Ugin.
Looks like a solid list so far. I might cut something ambitious for an Aphetto Alchemist since you are already running the bracers, and put in a blue regrowth effect like Archaeomancer.
I built a list that is french rules friendly as there are many people at my shop that also use these regulations (unfortunately).
One thing I notice about these lists is they either play no infect creatures or every single black infect creature ever printed.
In my list I included the following: Ichor Rats The enter the battlefield poison counter is great, even if it is removed right away, this can start the bleeding. Whispering Specter Looks very mediocre on paper, and is one of the weaker creatures in the deck but it can be a blowout. Phyrexian Crusader Not sure how anyone can consider not running this card. Pro red/white is huge in EDH. Plague Stinger Evasion and cheap. facilitates a turn 2/3 kill. Plague Myr Acceleration that also attacks for infect damage. Necropede didn't make the cut but an option if I find room.
I won't post my list as it is pretty generic, discard, tutors, accel and mass removal, with Postmortem Lunge as a standout to catch players off guard when they tap out for a wrath effect. I do run all the typical pump spells and X=swamps you control equipments. I think the fast infect creatures are great against blue decks, since you don't want to play control against them as they will soon bury you in card advantage.
I have had multiple turn 3 kills with this creature suite and a turn 2 kill which made the deck famous (infamous) at my card shop as being very unfair. It is quite easy actually with a hand with an infect creature, and a tutor.
Disagree on a few things here. Wake has won me many games, just destroys mono-colored generals, I won't be removing it.
I've had goblin recruiter for a long time in mine, glad to see you learned to respect it, but IMO fitting in Goblin Ringleader to combo with it is a must.
Goblin Assault has always been good for me. It has synergies with so many cards in the deck, makes fodder for skullclamp and helm, and is just card advantage. I won't remove it. Even if my opponent takes it after Confusion hits, I'm usually stealing whatever they took with the token with norin back anyways, since Norin is the real combo with Confusion, not assault. Forcing all goblins to attack can be an issue, but somewhat avoidable albeit annoying.
This is just my opinions, from my own experience playing, of course I'm heavily influenced by my own meta.
It really isn't. Entomb for vengeful pharaoh in response to an attack sounds legit but then when you draw it again next turn you realize you are pretty much down a card.
In my own testing and from other people playing grimgrin the consensus is that Pharaoh is not good.
Back in the day, I traded a 4th Ed. Bird of Paradise for 1 LED and a Cabal Therapy.
Sorry I just like that story.
Thanks.
The version I play (got the list from my friend who also plays tournaments with the deck and does well) is mono black (main) with a splash of green in the sideboard. We got the original list from Michael Augustine that was featured last summer and have been working on it since. What we do agree on is that the deck is very strong if played properly with a well tuned list for your meta. There are so many details and possible plays you can make with the deck and it is really a pleasure to pilot. First of all, the list I play is something like this (i am constantly moving stuff around but generally this is what it looks like now.)
Discard Spells
Bells
Godmode
Tutor
3 Infernal Tutor
Utility
Mana
Your ideal hand will usually contain a discard spell, a couple of bells and a lantern. That should be enough to slow down your opponent until you can draw a bridge, tutor or sun droplet. If you are playing vs control that is enough to win unless they get very lucky or you don't play the cards right.
Codex Shredder does a lot of work. With lantern it lets you scry like the other bells but its second ability is often overlooked by people new to the deck. It has a built in regrowth for 5 mana which is relevant since getting back a destroyed or milled bridge is very very good.
Pithing Needle is a must in the main to shore up the affinity match up since they can attack with 0 power creatures and move over ravager counters, instant speed equip cranial plating or just attack with thropters and signal pest. Darkblast is also there to pick off signal pest and other problem creatures like dark confidant and grim lavamancer. One in the maindeck and up to 2 more in the board for matchups where they do work.
My friend plays 2x Surgical Extraction in his MD as he claims it has downright won him quite a few games by extracting a key card milled by his opponent.
It is very late here but I would like to continue discussing the deck, perhaps again soon.
Darkblast comes in usually for affinity and any deck running Noble Hierarch. The point is to nuke 0/1 problem creatures that can facilitate attacking under a hellbent ensnaring bridge (signal pest, ornithropter + instant speed cranial plating, or 0/1 with exalted trigger.
This list is absolutely horrible. The two card combo that doesn't win the game is bad. The mana curve is bad. Stick with a more traditional list.
I agree with you about Ugin being better in this deck specifically, but I meant a better planeswalker as in Karn is just a more powerful planeswalker in a vacuum. I still can't imagine playing either in this deck. I hope I am proven wrong as its always fun to have a new toy for the deck.
Must be a mistake with the decklist. No way he would run 2 main and 2 sb dread return targets with no reanimation spells. Weird. And he came first place...
As for the argument that he is a board wipe, O-stone is already better at that job, since we can cast it for 3, pass the turn, and blow it during combat or EOT step, holding up counters and buying another turn while leaving 5 mana open to counter a gamechanger. All that and we can already recur it with ruins, search it out with fabricate, and discard it to thirst. All which we can't do with Ugin.
One thing I notice about these lists is they either play no infect creatures or every single black infect creature ever printed.
In my list I included the following:
Ichor Rats The enter the battlefield poison counter is great, even if it is removed right away, this can start the bleeding.
Whispering Specter Looks very mediocre on paper, and is one of the weaker creatures in the deck but it can be a blowout.
Phyrexian Crusader Not sure how anyone can consider not running this card. Pro red/white is huge in EDH.
Plague Stinger Evasion and cheap. facilitates a turn 2/3 kill.
Plague Myr Acceleration that also attacks for infect damage.
Necropede didn't make the cut but an option if I find room.
I won't post my list as it is pretty generic, discard, tutors, accel and mass removal, with Postmortem Lunge as a standout to catch players off guard when they tap out for a wrath effect. I do run all the typical pump spells and X=swamps you control equipments. I think the fast infect creatures are great against blue decks, since you don't want to play control against them as they will soon bury you in card advantage.
I have had multiple turn 3 kills with this creature suite and a turn 2 kill which made the deck famous (infamous) at my card shop as being very unfair. It is quite easy actually with a hand with an infect creature, and a tutor.
I've had goblin recruiter for a long time in mine, glad to see you learned to respect it, but IMO fitting in Goblin Ringleader to combo with it is a must.
Goblin Assault has always been good for me. It has synergies with so many cards in the deck, makes fodder for skullclamp and helm, and is just card advantage. I won't remove it. Even if my opponent takes it after Confusion hits, I'm usually stealing whatever they took with the token with norin back anyways, since Norin is the real combo with Confusion, not assault. Forcing all goblins to attack can be an issue, but somewhat avoidable albeit annoying.
This is just my opinions, from my own experience playing, of course I'm heavily influenced by my own meta.
It really isn't. Entomb for vengeful pharaoh in response to an attack sounds legit but then when you draw it again next turn you realize you are pretty much down a card.
In my own testing and from other people playing grimgrin the consensus is that Pharaoh is not good.