Except for infinite tokens with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Just activate it during your opponents end step and swing away.
It's cool and all, but I'd rather just have a better mana base, not that you can't have a solid 5 color mana base.
Activating Survival a bunch of times is a lot easier when you are running 3 colors instead of 5 and Survival is probably the most important card in the deck and immeasurably more important than Kiki-Jiki, imo.
With Desertion, it goes into play under your control instead of going to the graveyard. I don't think they can opt to put it in the command zone, but I'm not sure.
From the rulings:
I got that, but it says "If an artifact or creature spell is countered this way..."
The fact that you are countering their general may give them a chance to send it to the command zone instead of going through the typical motions of Desertion. Not sure either.
Ya, I think you need Desertion or Gather Specimens to steal their general. I think they can just put their general in the command zone when Spelljack counters it.
I don't think Desertion even works if your opponent knows what they are doing. Because of the oracle wording on Desertion, instead of them attempting to put that spell in their gy and you replacing that with gaining control of it, they can just put it in the command zone after it gets countered.
Am I wrong here? I've never Desertioned a general, but I have used the card several times.
I'd just play Vorosh. Neither W or R really add all that much and you have plenty of control options and tutors among the other colors.
More combos: The Devoted Druid + Quillspike kill is pretty standard for one player, but throw in Survival and you can get Molten-Tail Masticore to kill multiple players at once.
Don't forget that Devoted Druid has amazing synergy with Grim Poppet and Wickerbough Elder if they are in the gy with Ooze in play.
So in addition to the usual Vorosh colored creatures you'd want in the deck for Ooze, you should totally play Thalakos Scout. It makes it so your Ooze is pretty much impossible to kill. This is to supplement the Morphling + Thornling package.
Don't run 'mana counters' though. Anything that requires the opponent to pay x mana like Mana Leak will be pointless after the first few rounds of the game. Multiplayer games last a long time and people will have a ton of mana available.
See, this is an exaggeration, in my experience. Sure, sometimes people will have the spare mana, but sometimes they won't, and in a mp game, you are more likely to find someone who is tapping out for some huge bomb. Besides, you said "first few rounds", so I'm assuming people stop playing spells that cost more than 3 once the 6th turn starts...or am I way off here?
Anyway, it's entirely meta dependent. If wtwlf plays in a hyper competitive environment where people play really tight curves and/or try to combo out as soon as possible, Mana Leak and, at the very least, Complicate are going to be better than many of the counterspells listed in this thread. That said, from his responses, I'd assume this is not the type of group he plans on playing with.
The numbers aren't quite like I'd rank them, but those are 10 that I consider pretty good. I'd be remiss if I didn't also suggest Rewind and Complicate.
Some will probably tell you that leak effects aren't great in mp EDH, but they have their uses. There is always someone that taps out--the last two times I've cycled it(which would be the last two times I've used it), I countered a ritualed out Skithiryx and a Hellkite Overlord. If you're planning on playing Mono U, it may not be needed, but I love it in U/x decks.
Saying "Not to be a jerk" doesn't prevent you from being one if you just tag it on the beginning of a statement, unfortunately.
This is in fact the crazy plays in EDH thread, so anything that could be considered "crazy" (that being said there could be several different definitions and therefore some people consider some plays more crazier than others, if at all), in an EDH game, would in fact belong here.
Here's the thing: When I say "Not to be a jerk..." I'm not saying that I don't expect that you'll take it that way, or even that I care if you do. What I'm saying is that I'm not saying it just to be a jerk.*
Niv having a copy creature and Puzzle Box is slightly more "crazy" than a Jhoira deck suspending a giant creature and Obliterate. It just doesn't seem crazy enough to me, but that's not really your fault. I'm probably just desensitized by the numerous "crazy" Niv plays listed in this thread.
Anyway, if you and other Niv players find that stuff insane, more power to you. It's probably pretty fun, but I really don't think there is a sequence of plays involving Niv I could find entertaining**, but that's just different strokes, I suppose.
* And for the record, there is a difference between trying to be a jerk and not caring if you come off as one from time-to-time.
** Now, if you were to crack Memory Jar and cast Plagiarize + Twincast, I'd like it, but just because I have a love affair with those cards. It's not particularly nutty.
Though they are somewhat narrow in the decks they fit in, Pox and Death Cloud should provide something of what you're looking for. It sets everyone back on lands and in the case of Deathcloud, you'll probably wipe Eldrazi off the field. Of course, timing is key.
Hmm, just realized these might be construed as extremely griefer-iffic, but what are you gonna do? LD that also hits creatures is pretty hard to think of as fun for most.
It happens. I remembered it from when I was trying to make Peasant Reanimator.
It's cool and all, but I'd rather just have a better mana base, not that you can't have a solid 5 color mana base.
Activating Survival a bunch of times is a lot easier when you are running 3 colors instead of 5 and Survival is probably the most important card in the deck and immeasurably more important than Kiki-Jiki, imo.
I got that, but it says "If an artifact or creature spell is countered this way..."
The fact that you are countering their general may give them a chance to send it to the command zone instead of going through the typical motions of Desertion. Not sure either.
I don't think Desertion even works if your opponent knows what they are doing. Because of the oracle wording on Desertion, instead of them attempting to put that spell in their gy and you replacing that with gaining control of it, they can just put it in the command zone after it gets countered.
Am I wrong here? I've never Desertioned a general, but I have used the card several times.
Edit: And Black Lotus...
Is this for a local group with a different banned list?
More combos: The Devoted Druid + Quillspike kill is pretty standard for one player, but throw in Survival and you can get Molten-Tail Masticore to kill multiple players at once.
Don't forget that Devoted Druid has amazing synergy with Grim Poppet and Wickerbough Elder if they are in the gy with Ooze in play.
So in addition to the usual Vorosh colored creatures you'd want in the deck for Ooze, you should totally play Thalakos Scout. It makes it so your Ooze is pretty much impossible to kill. This is to supplement the Morphling + Thornling package.
See, this is an exaggeration, in my experience. Sure, sometimes people will have the spare mana, but sometimes they won't, and in a mp game, you are more likely to find someone who is tapping out for some huge bomb. Besides, you said "first few rounds", so I'm assuming people stop playing spells that cost more than 3 once the 6th turn starts...or am I way off here?
Anyway, it's entirely meta dependent. If wtwlf plays in a hyper competitive environment where people play really tight curves and/or try to combo out as soon as possible, Mana Leak and, at the very least, Complicate are going to be better than many of the counterspells listed in this thread. That said, from his responses, I'd assume this is not the type of group he plans on playing with.
2. FoW
3. Hinder
4. Forbid
5. Cryptic Command
6. Desertion
7. Counterspell
8. Negate (sooooo good)
9. Arcane Denial
10. Dismiss
The numbers aren't quite like I'd rank them, but those are 10 that I consider pretty good. I'd be remiss if I didn't also suggest Rewind and Complicate.
Some will probably tell you that leak effects aren't great in mp EDH, but they have their uses. There is always someone that taps out--the last two times I've cycled it(which would be the last two times I've used it), I countered a ritualed out Skithiryx and a Hellkite Overlord. If you're planning on playing Mono U, it may not be needed, but I love it in U/x decks.
I got that part when I read it. Basically, Niv Mizzet + Consecrated Sphinx, no matter who it belongs to, isn't terribly amazing to me.
Here's the thing: When I say "Not to be a jerk..." I'm not saying that I don't expect that you'll take it that way, or even that I care if you do. What I'm saying is that I'm not saying it just to be a jerk.*
Niv having a copy creature and Puzzle Box is slightly more "crazy" than a Jhoira deck suspending a giant creature and Obliterate. It just doesn't seem crazy enough to me, but that's not really your fault. I'm probably just desensitized by the numerous "crazy" Niv plays listed in this thread.
Anyway, if you and other Niv players find that stuff insane, more power to you. It's probably pretty fun, but I really don't think there is a sequence of plays involving Niv I could find entertaining**, but that's just different strokes, I suppose.
* And for the record, there is a difference between trying to be a jerk and not caring if you come off as one from time-to-time.
** Now, if you were to crack Memory Jar and cast Plagiarize + Twincast, I'd like it, but just because I have a love affair with those cards. It's not particularly nutty.
Not to be a jerk, but we get it. I think any "Crazy plays" involving Niv Mizzet are either exaggerated in their awesomeness/played out.
In fact, most plays involving someone using their general pretty much like it is supposed to be used don't really belong here, imo.
Hmm, just realized these might be construed as extremely griefer-iffic, but what are you gonna do? LD that also hits creatures is pretty hard to think of as fun for most.