But it's not the ultimate argument against Adventure creatures, since they can be abused, too.
Think of bounce like Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal. You can also return it to your hand with stuff like Phyrexian Reclamation or Temur Sabertooth. You can abuse Rebound like Narset Transcendent to maximize value, you can use Young Pyromancer and other variants to get value out of the extra noncreature spell cast.
There are many synergies to explore with adventure. If you are 100% focused on abusing ETB creatures, then Adventure creatures are not viable. But I think that some of them, especially the instant removal ones, are very playable in many shells.
+ The Great Henge
- Guardian Project
very questionable swap, but first tests have shown that the Great Henge is a lot more powerful on average than one would think. Nevertheless I doubt that it stays, since the win-more potential is horrendous.
The second (extra) art version works for me. It shows a "little" theft and the Fae "borrows" the keys to unlock something. I will not block your attempt to get the keys back, I promise!
I would like to discuss the viability of Adventure creatures in Commander.
I know that my glasses are tinted in hype colours, but I still think these pushed Adventure creatures are really strong and "good stuff" material. The inherent card advantage of drawing a useful creature on top of a removal spell looks really powerful.
Do you think they will become instant staples? Or do you think, that ETB-creatures with even easier to abuse effects will outshine these creatures in the fight for a slot?
Gavony Township comes to mind and looks much better on paper.
Nevertheless, Kher Keep would be and most likely will be my cut. 0/1 token are just too limited in their usefulness and this land provides a nice option to improve combat stats.
Nevertheless, for a multiplayer cube this card is quite interesting. There is not much card advantage stuff in this guild. I will test it in the slot of Zhur-Taa Druid.
For me it's sadly Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet vs Rankle, Master of Pranks in a multiplayer cube and it's one of these rare occasions where it's not even changing much that I do the consideration with multiplayer in mind.
I have a weakness for token producers, and Kalitas provides a bit of that function. On the other hand Rankle will be devastating if not disrupted. Decisions, decisions...
I like this card a lot. 2/2 for W1 is quite impressive for such an utility card, scry 2 is useful for early turns and white is the color that has a very limited access to filtering, so it's a welcome inclusion. It's like a white version of Sage's Row Savant or Omenspeaker, but with more possible modes.
The flicker mode is limited to your creatures (you own) and therefore much weaker than something like Flickerwisp. Nevertheless, this mode is potent with cmc 5+ creatures and sometimes it will appear as late top deck and is much more valuable than 3 life of scry 2 at this point. Oh and you can Homeward Path a stolen creature with him
I am looking forward to test the prince.
Doesn't feel right to me. I mean, I am happy for those who seek to include all the power they get into their Cube... but this is nothing I would want to cube, it just feels kind of bland and uninspired.
I am also not playing True-Name Nemesis due to similar reasons - which irony, that it's a card that helps against it. It's like Wizards is creating a small minigame for your Cubes in which one silly card beats the next silly monstrosity
White is really the worst color for such cards if you ask me. There are of course many other possible candidates. Just think of Exsanguinate and stuff like that.
The thing that we should not forget: Powerlevel varies tremendously. Some people play with just precon decks, some people play with 3000 Dollar decks. The precon deck will not win just because it plays some banned I-win cards. But in the hands of the 3000 dollar decks, some cards like Paradox Engine become broken.
So the problem is, the same is true for stuff like Sol Ring. The casual guy can play Sol Ring and nothing horrible happens. The progamer will use it to win out of nowhere turn 4 or so. That's why some cards become problematic.
I support EDH and Oathbreaker in my Cube and a counter-theme has been more and more present.
Some recommendations:
Chasm Skulker is playable on its own, but very scary with even minimal support. Ixidron does not remove counters on your creatures, so it can be quite strong in a counter-deck. Disciple of Bolas can break a stalemate when used on a boosted creature.
Similarly, Prime Speaker Zegana, Greater Good, Traverse the Outlands and Rishkar's Expertise give you a nice payoff for having boosted creatures with a lot of strength. Spikeshot Elder becomes scary with some counters and mana. Dreamstealer is another good target for counters. Gyre Sage and Incubation Druid provide a nice mana boost for counters and Champion of Lambholt makes your creatures unblockable at some point. Evolution Sage is a very strong proliferate enabler, maybe the strongest we have. Just imagine her and Fertilid as a ramp-engine. The synergies are endless. Fathom Mage is another strong payoff card.
The magic of this theme is, that most cards are quite playable on their own, like Verdurous Gearhulk. But in combination with a support card, they become gross. Stuff like Hardened Scales, Doubling Season or Corpsejack Menace makes sure that you can do silly stuff, but they suffer from being not good on their own, compared to other cards I named. So the question is, how deep do you want to support this theme and depending on that, you can decide what to add.
I have two EDH groups and both use the new mulligan. We like it, although the casual part of people preferred the old one. The strongest argument seems to be "this mulligan is used in each format", which helps to accept it.
We use the modification that you do have a free mulligan, you also have a free mulligan if you have no lands on your hand (reveal) and we put each unused hand to the side but shuffle them only into the library at the end of the whole mulligan procedure.
What I like most is that you don't do silly things like "oh 1 Sol Ring, 1 Land and the rest is *****. I put 5 cards away and draw better suff, but keep my very explosive start"
Expropriate should typically be worse than Time Stretch. Blatant Thievery is a good card, but Time Warp is better, and I'd rather have 2 Time Warps than a Time Warp plus a Blatant Thievery most of the time, especially when the former comes at a lower cost. It's a great splashy card, but it only becomes a problem when someone other than the caster votes for time. That's a problem that you should head off before it resolves by explaining how stupid it is to vote for time. 3+ time walks is usually going to be insurmountable, but a timewalk plus a Blatant Thievery should not be (at least when Time Warp wouldn't win on its own).
I can't agree here. Time Stretch provides you an additional extra turn, but doesn't steal permanents. I doubt that you can establish as much power in your additional turn on the board as if you steal the best permanents of your opponents. Also, Time Stretch is not a solution, it doesn't remove a threat on your opponents side, Time Stretch can also be a dead card if you don't draw gas after casting it. Expropriate is just so much more of a "I win" card because of the combination of things it does.
ALso, Expropriate is better than Blatant Thievery, because it doesn't target and can steal even the scariest stuff.
Regarding the "but Expropriate is exiled"-argument: 1) if you want extra turn loops, you do not play Time Stretch but one of the cmc5 variants. Also, I have never seen a game where you would even need to use another Expropriate, if it resolves, that it's game over in 99% of cases. It's the very definition of a game ending spell.
I bet that Biorhythm has a lower quote of winning games compared to Expropriate, it's a dead card in many more cases...
Expropriate is so much better than most cards on the ban list. I can't take this ban list seriously and it's irony that they now offer these criteria - it all just looks even more random
But it's not the ultimate argument against Adventure creatures, since they can be abused, too.
Think of bounce like Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal. You can also return it to your hand with stuff like Phyrexian Reclamation or Temur Sabertooth. You can abuse Rebound like Narset Transcendent to maximize value, you can use Young Pyromancer and other variants to get value out of the extra noncreature spell cast.
There are many synergies to explore with adventure. If you are 100% focused on abusing ETB creatures, then Adventure creatures are not viable. But I think that some of them, especially the instant removal ones, are very playable in many shells.
Edit: Also, Giant Killer can be a good target for Ranger of Eos and Ranger-Captain of Eos
+ Giant Killer
- Topplegeist
I play Ranger of Eos and Ranger-Captain of Eos, so a tutorable removal spell with instant speed is quite attractive.
+ Charming Prince
- Relic Seeker
+ Brazen Borrower
- Raven Familiar
+ Murderous Rider
- Yahenni, Undying Partisan
+ Castle Embereth
- Kher Keep
+ Bonecrusher Giant
- Sin Prodder
+ Once Upon a Time
- Constant Mists
I am quite happy to remove the oppressive fog from my Cube
+ The Great Henge
- Guardian Project
very questionable swap, but first tests have shown that the Great Henge is a lot more powerful on average than one would think. Nevertheless I doubt that it stays, since the win-more potential is horrendous.
+ Garruk, Cursed Huntsman
- Vraska the Unseen
+ Escape to the Wilds
- Zhur-Taa Druid
+ Fabled Passage
- Ash Barrens
Do you think they will become instant staples? Or do you think, that ETB-creatures with even easier to abuse effects will outshine these creatures in the fight for a slot?
So I count 4 adventure creatures where the adventure part is an instant removal spell and the creature side is not awful.
Murderous Rider > Bonecrusher Giant > Brazen Borrower > Giant Killer, but I will play all four of them at 540 with multiplayer focus.
Nevertheless, Kher Keep would be and most likely will be my cut. 0/1 token are just too limited in their usefulness and this land provides a nice option to improve combat stats.
Nevertheless, for a multiplayer cube this card is quite interesting. There is not much card advantage stuff in this guild. I will test it in the slot of Zhur-Taa Druid.
I have a weakness for token producers, and Kalitas provides a bit of that function. On the other hand Rankle will be devastating if not disrupted. Decisions, decisions...
I like this card a lot. 2/2 for W1 is quite impressive for such an utility card, scry 2 is useful for early turns and white is the color that has a very limited access to filtering, so it's a welcome inclusion. It's like a white version of Sage's Row Savant or Omenspeaker, but with more possible modes.
The flicker mode is limited to your creatures (you own) and therefore much weaker than something like Flickerwisp. Nevertheless, this mode is potent with cmc 5+ creatures and sometimes it will appear as late top deck and is much more valuable than 3 life of scry 2 at this point. Oh and you can Homeward Path a stolen creature with him
I am looking forward to test the prince.
I am also not playing True-Name Nemesis due to similar reasons - which irony, that it's a card that helps against it. It's like Wizards is creating a small minigame for your Cubes in which one silly card beats the next silly monstrosity
Finale of Glory
Expropriate
Rise of the Dark Realms
Insurrection
Genesis Wave
White is really the worst color for such cards if you ask me. There are of course many other possible candidates. Just think of Exsanguinate and stuff like that.
The thing that we should not forget: Powerlevel varies tremendously. Some people play with just precon decks, some people play with 3000 Dollar decks. The precon deck will not win just because it plays some banned I-win cards. But in the hands of the 3000 dollar decks, some cards like Paradox Engine become broken.
So the problem is, the same is true for stuff like Sol Ring. The casual guy can play Sol Ring and nothing horrible happens. The progamer will use it to win out of nowhere turn 4 or so. That's why some cards become problematic.
Some recommendations:
Chasm Skulker is playable on its own, but very scary with even minimal support.
Ixidron does not remove counters on your creatures, so it can be quite strong in a counter-deck.
Disciple of Bolas can break a stalemate when used on a boosted creature.
Similarly, Prime Speaker Zegana, Greater Good, Traverse the Outlands and Rishkar's Expertise give you a nice payoff for having boosted creatures with a lot of strength.
Spikeshot Elder becomes scary with some counters and mana.
Dreamstealer is another good target for counters.
Gyre Sage and Incubation Druid provide a nice mana boost for counters and Champion of Lambholt makes your creatures unblockable at some point.
Evolution Sage is a very strong proliferate enabler, maybe the strongest we have. Just imagine her and Fertilid as a ramp-engine. The synergies are endless.
Fathom Mage is another strong payoff card.
The magic of this theme is, that most cards are quite playable on their own, like Verdurous Gearhulk. But in combination with a support card, they become gross. Stuff like Hardened Scales, Doubling Season or Corpsejack Menace makes sure that you can do silly stuff, but they suffer from being not good on their own, compared to other cards I named. So the question is, how deep do you want to support this theme and depending on that, you can decide what to add.
We use the modification that you do have a free mulligan, you also have a free mulligan if you have no lands on your hand (reveal) and we put each unused hand to the side but shuffle them only into the library at the end of the whole mulligan procedure.
What I like most is that you don't do silly things like "oh 1 Sol Ring, 1 Land and the rest is *****. I put 5 cards away and draw better suff, but keep my very explosive start"
I can't agree here.
Time Stretch provides you an additional extra turn, but doesn't steal permanents. I doubt that you can establish as much power in your additional turn on the board as if you steal the best permanents of your opponents. Also, Time Stretch is not a solution, it doesn't remove a threat on your opponents side, Time Stretch can also be a dead card if you don't draw gas after casting it. Expropriate is just so much more of a "I win" card because of the combination of things it does.
ALso, Expropriate is better than Blatant Thievery, because it doesn't target and can steal even the scariest stuff.
Regarding the "but Expropriate is exiled"-argument: 1) if you want extra turn loops, you do not play Time Stretch but one of the cmc5 variants. Also, I have never seen a game where you would even need to use another Expropriate, if it resolves, that it's game over in 99% of cases. It's the very definition of a game ending spell.
I bet that Biorhythm has a lower quote of winning games compared to Expropriate, it's a dead card in many more cases...