Magic Market Index for Dec 28th, 2018
 
Magic Market Index for Dec 21st, 2018
 
Ultimate Masters: MMI Review
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from LnGrrrR »

    I was mainly ISOing to prove the point that Tom's schtick isn't THAT indecipherable.

    I mentioned it on my readslist on page 5, but I have him as the third towniest read (myself first obviously, then you, then him). Tom hasn't necessarily interacted a ton with people, but he doesn't just shoot something off and then ignore it. He followed up with Rhand, and he followed up on his suspicion of Shadow by posting a quote showing why he suspected him. It could just be scum!Tom laying out lines of attack, but doesn't feel that way to me. Also, the amount of people claiming he isn't providing reads is counter to what I'm seeing, so that looks like a false attack on him, either by misguided town or scum looking for an opening. I would be inclined to think the latter.


    Thanks. Who amongst those claiming Tom is obfuscating do you think is most likely to be scum?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    LnGrrrR: What do you make of Tom's ISO alignment wise? You've got a lot of information there and not a lot of analysis.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    It feels a lot like we are talking past each other; your 136 was reasons you think I’m scum, but the question I was asking was what were your specific thoughts on those four names I listed as town, not really “why do you think I’m scum?”

    For reference (don’t really want to go quote it all):
    I made that list
    You voted me
    I asked your issue with the list
    You said you took issue with the timing of it
    I said that seems like a vague reason to vote me
    You said it’s not the reason
    I said you sidestepped the initial question
    You gave me reasons you thought I was scum 136
    I posted my list
    So like, I can understand the question getting lost in all of that, but that’s probably why you feel like I didn’t re-engage, and I feel like you didn’t answer my question.


    OK. I read your #93 as guessing my motive for voting rather than a straight question. So I explained why I voted instead because it didn't have anything to do with whether I agreed with your reads or not.

    Since it transpires you were genuninely asking me those questions and not actually adressing my vote, I'll answer: at the time, I don't think I would call any of them slam dunk town reads. Cheesecake was (and is) looking the best of them, but the others are pretty tenuous really - certainly nowhere close to calling the game easy. That's why I think you didn't genuninely consider them all strong town reads - you just listed them because other people were and you wanted to join in and get town points for making town reads. And if you are scum, you probably didn't list four townies - being able to slip a buddy into the list provides even more incentive to put some hard, burgeoning consensus town reads on record. Plus the more general "rule of threes".



    Partly was when we had our little rambo off, I felt like it was townies bashing into each other. So cantrip/shadow/lngrr/ I have as townie (slightly hesitant on Eco). Other people I am town reading or null reading for different reasons.

    I almost I feel like Azrael is wolfy, mostly because I feel like I am scraping the barrel to come up with 3 people that can be wolves. Still early though.

    Lacking strong wolf reads right now. Light wolf reads on you/Highroller, slightly lighter on eco and rhand. But different meta than the quick and run I have gotten more accustom to. Moire used to just spitballing ideas, and interacting in almost real time. Trying to analyze posts after they have been dealt with for a while is tougher when other people have already commented on it.


    All of Shadow, Cantrip, and LnGrrR being town is a big call. What are the key indicators in your mind that it's all a big town hoohah? Who would be the scum around the edges of it?

    Also how come I get both a light town read and a light scum read?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from Vaimes »
    I think (at least) shadow would be aware enough of voting patterns for that kind of thing to not really apply.

    If he voted first and Cantrip followed, eh, maybe?


    Please could you rephrase that? I can't work out which way round you mean >_>
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    I like LnGrrR's examination of GJ's (lack of) vote. I find it slightly unsettling that he hasn't voted (as the only not-absent person to not attmept a vote), and I'm not really on board with these strong town read's GJ has been accruing.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from Cantripmancer »
    Frown I'm not trying to be snippy. It's the opposite: I feel pretty manic and stoked. Grin I just got done messaging Grape how much fun I'm having. If I'm making things less fun for you, please tell me and I'll scale it back (same goes for anyone else).


    To clarify, you're not impacting my fun or anything, I'm just finding it weird that you're being quite short with people (going all in on LnGrrR, "NOTED" against GJ, sniping at Vaimes, challenging Rhand to the THUNDERDOME). But you're not really under any pressure, nor would I associate this with you as either alignment - pressure or not. Maybe it is just over excitement that's being expressed in an odd way. After your V/LA (why bother declaring this for under a day??) could you take a step back and see if you can more calmly reflect on things?

    +++++

    Quote from shadowlancerx »

    @eco: Are you officially past the point of engaging with me, just asking the thread ethereally about my motivation for posts I make?


    Given that you were so keen to discuss my reasons for voting you, but followed my response in #136 with nothing apart from a quick OMGUS by putting me at the bottom of your nulls list, I wouldn't say I was the one willfully not engaging.

    Glibness aside, #236 was actually a direct invitation for you to explain why you moved your vote - although I grant it was phrased rather rhetorically.

    ++++++

    Quote from tomsloger »
    actually thinking about this while driving and i dont want this to just be the reflexive snippy comment it was at the time

    Rhand scum for picking one thing from my entire iso of calling people scum and deciding im serious about that one to push me for it. And its actually worse than that it isnt even a push its a question in the same post as calling me and cantrip his scumteam *like he doesnt want an uninfluenced answer*

    vote: rhand


    Tom: Thoughts on Rhand/Shadow as w/w? It would explain why Rhand was so happy to accept Shadow's "mindmeld" in #138. Also while I have you, what do you think about Shadow's #149 ("Random hottake: Cantrip is intentionally trying to play in a feisty manner to mask his alignment from the likes of myself/Tom.")

    RE: Tom in general, I think I have a decent framework for reading him here. I can't really discuss details until he's given me enough data points, but I know what I'm looking for. Right now, he's in my town bucket for thinking along the lines to me RE: Shadow at least.

    +++++++

    Quote from Vaimes »
    Vaimes
    Cheesepuff, Lngr, Eco
    names
    Cantrip?
    shadow

    Cantrip has me a bit kerfluffled, but I'm only just now starting page three.


    Hey Vaimes, as I understand it, you're getting bad feelings about both Shadow and Cantrip. Do you think that their proximity of voting for LnGrrR is indicative of them being not knowingly aligned?

    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    One day I'll learn to preview my posts.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from LnGrrrR »

    @Eco, regarding scumtells that aren't really tells, I'm guessing you think, "Voting someone who isn't in the game during RVS" falls in the same category?


    I wouldn't say it falls into the same buzzwordy category, but that one relies on context - are they doing it to avoid engaging, or do they think it might go somewhere?

    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Unvote, Vote Highroller

    Shadow has obviously made his position on that clear. Why the switch? Can't take the heat?

    Quote from Vaimes »
    Eco, I see a thing you're doing and I have to ask if you're doing it on purpose?


    I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Random hottake: Cantrip is intentionally trying to play in a feisty manner to mask his alignment from the likes of myself/Tom. Which, scum!cantrip would obviously feel the need to do, but town!cantrip may also attempt it for the sake of it.


    Would be keen to hear Tom's take on this
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    wow, nice quote mangle there. I meant to just quote Cantrip's 146 but apparently I suck
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    Hi GJ, try not to let your sore loser syndrome affect your totally real scumread on me, yeah?
    Eh....why are you skimming on the first real life day of the first game Day when there's only a hundred posts since your last post? Or rather, why did you feel the need to pop in, [captain obvious observation], [random generic townread], [snarky unproductive response]? As opposed to something thoughtful and constructive that actually touches on current events?[/quote]

    Are you in a bad mood or something Cantrip? You're being kind of snippy, but I don't really associate that with you as either alignment under the current very minimal pressure you're under.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery

    They became wolf tells though, because wolves were found to be doing that in past games, would you not agree? The mistake people make is that they assume town never does that.


    In danger of veering to far into abstract theory, I don't agree. They become seen as wolf tells because they're the sort of thing people thinki wolves do, without necessarily actually having support in practise.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    @eco: not trying to shade you, you sidestepped my question entirely and then cast it poorly and I want to know why.


    Alright, I'll stop being coy, even though you didn't ask for my reasons, you presumed them and presumed incorrectly. I voted you because I agree with Tom that town Shadow would be more likely to feel loose enough to bandwagon onto Eco with his bro rather than just observe but not join in. I felt that your town reads list was presented at a time when they were starting to acquire town cred and at a time when people were gaining town cred for posting town reads - it looked like an attempt to cash in by committing to the budding consensus and try and get into a town circle. Finally I felt like your vote on LnGrrR was a bit of a setup - you were so keen to see LnGrrR's response, but I don't really agree that's it's forced nonchalance, nor that "oh crap shutting up" would be a more likely thing for a townie to do. So the vote looks opportunistic after intentionally avoiding straight following Cantrip.

    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Screw it, I’ve basically already declared it, and it will be better to have at one person say diffinitively than multiple people cryptic about it:

    I am Vanilla Town. That’s how I know there are Vanilla Town.


    Great work. What were you trying to achieve by heavily implying it and now confirming it? How does this benefit the town?

    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    Cantrip comes across super honest, and in (her...? sorry can't remember) way, trying to push the game out of RVS and not let something slide.

    As for Shadow, I think scum!Shadow would barn Cantrip with some throw away line, rather than wait for my explanation. The "awakward" explanation is... weird to me, but I know a lot of stuff I say that makes perfect sense doesn't always to others, in real life and here, so...*throws hands in air*

    Nothing on Cheesecake so far, but I haven't looked at his posts in isolation.


    *Squints* Can't tell if attempting to appease attackers or genuninely understanding their motivations.

    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    @Eco: See above for my thoughts behind LnG fishing when he knows it's bad. And don't tell me that scum haven't been caught for similar/even less, because I know they have. The possibility isn't even a Question in my mind.


    I don't quite agree - scum get caught off less, but I think they still get caught off more nuance (even if that nuance is "they tried to make a RVS joke that betrayed uncharacterstic nervousness *ahem*). I just don't think scum would basically ask "hey gang who is power" and expect it to a) reveal anything or b) fail to get noticed. Or rather, I don't really believe that you believe that as strongly as you say you do.

    But right now, I'm working on a soft un-aligned between Shadow and Cantrip (since this is too much theatre and I don't think they'd want to both tie themselves by consecutive voting at this stage), so I guess I'll leave it and see how Cantrip's convictions in this matter evolve.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery

    @Eco: Can you explain the town mindset behind LGr's fishing?


    Townies are dumb? It's not like I think it was a townie thing to do, or that there was a good reason for it, but I think fishing (and especially the obvious kind that is essentially asking "power roles please raise your hands") is within the same set of scumtells as OMGUS and WIFOM - things people like to vote over but are very low-value as scum tells.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 1 International Men (and Women) of Mystery
    Quote from shadowlancerx »

    So...you take issue with the timing of my town list and that’s why you think I’m scum? That seems...vague.


    That's not the only reason, nor did you ask for them. But nice shade attempt.


    Quote from Cantripmancer »
    Not that I remember. I feel like LnGrrrR got caught up in the generally jovial and playful tone of the posts up until then and thought he might get away with some light fishing, if worded correctly (especially after his first attempt went un-remarked upon). (Yes, I truly believe that he's scum and that he obviously fished. I just think he thought he'd get away with it.) Why does it put you "in a quandry"?


    Becuase I find it Questionable that you believe so strongly that scum would be so obvious. Does LnGrrR really srike you as the type of person to play riskily or think he can get away with things?


    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    Hello supertownyEco!

    Mostly curiosity. I don't necessarily mind getting people on me though, as I am not a super awesome player and I can second guess myself, so the sooner I can lock in strong feelings one way or another, the better. It's not so much that I expect heat, but I am not shocked when it happens. Though looking back at a few games, I think I am over-remembering earlier games on this site.

    @Shadow, it's more so that I feel cantrip's attack on me was towny, and you not immediately jumping on was towny. GJ not voting me at all may be it, but that might be his meta. His Townlean on cheesecake for volume posting also felt a bit forced. To me, that's a weird reason to town read someone early on D1, 2 pages in, with most of it being opening day shenanigans RVS.


    Since you have apparently managed to get some strong feelings out of it, could you explain those more? What about the opposing behaviours of Cantrip and Shadow are towny? Do you have an opinion on Cheescake's alignment?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.