I am not sure why people like History of Benalia. That card seems so meh to me. It occupies space in the deck that I think is better dedicated to Gideon and other wincons. Right now, if I feel the need, I run Sunscourge Champion. The casting cost is better as it only required W2 rather than WW1 and it can offer pretty much everything HoB offers. In fact, I think it offers significantly more, as the matchups I want it in, it gains me 6 life, while the HoB's top end bonus is to buff 2/2s that I won't be attacking with anyway. It's significantly better against aggro and control. Can anyone help me understand why HoB doesn't suck?
I love UW control. Have done since I got to play FoW and Kjeldoran Outpost and Approach is probably the best finisher we've ever been offered. I am not convinced putting the Approaches away is going to make us stronger. I already run two Gearhulks in the main, but I almost never even try to protect them. Abrade? OK. Bye GH. They really function as flashback on another spell I want/need and, if I'm lucky, an occasional block. Running more of them just turns on Vraska's Contempt and all the other nonsense cluttering up our oppo's hands. I don't want to fight them on their ground: creatures. Approach fights them on ground they aren't prepared for.
I agree wholeheartedly with codaddy. Some really suspect choices there. I'm not going to worry about the pros and cons of Teferi until I can test it, but Evolving Wilds is dubious for a couple of reasons. Only 2 Settles, only 2 Approaches and the SB is a mess. Although, the use of Lyra in the transformational board makes some sense to me. I dislike her in the MB, but going with a mix of Cats and Angels for G2 might make a little sense. I also like the Memorial to Genius. I used to run the other land that did that in my first version of this deck, but it rotated.
I don't know who he's tilting at either, but it doesn't really matter. My argument against Lyra is not that she dies to removal. Everything dies to removal. My argument against her and -- especially -- building around her, is that right now running no dorks G1 strands a ton of cards in our opponents' hands. It makes about 15% of their draws dead before we even play the 1st land. It's basic Art of War -- our enemy is looking to fight us in a place we aren't attacking.
Also, comparing Lyra to Baneslayer is more than a little bit strong. I get that she's a 5 mana 5/5 flyer with lifelink and that's good, but Walletslayer isn't legendary. Also, Walletslayer usually went in decks that are very different to the one we are running. More often than know you drew removal out with things like Knight of the White Orchid and other dorks. Those decks were generally just more reliant on dorks than we are.
Am I alone in thinking that the new Teferi PW is just not that good? As for him being "the best PW in Standard"...You have met Chandra and Gideon, right? Both are categorically more powerful and I think Vraska is better too. (Hell, Chandra is Legacy quality!) Tef bears testing but, at first glance at least, looks decidedly mediocre. That doesn't matter though. The question is how it fits into the game plan. Does it help us or hinder us? What does it do more efficiently than the options we currently have available to us? Right now we have Gideon at 3CMC forcing oppos to extend into our sweepers -- neatly fitting right into our strategy. Also, not incidentally, Gideon wins the mirror!
As for Lyra Dawnbringer: Yeah, let's just turn on all the removal clogging up our opponents' hands. One of the things that has us so well positioned right now is that most oppos are running 8-12 removal cards that do almost nothing against us. Even when we run Gearhulks, they tend to function more as extra Settles and Glimpses than actual threats. They do their primary job on cast and if you get to block or turn them sideways then you are getting a bonus. I don't usually care that much when my Gearhulk is killed right away. Playing Lyria instead of sweeping your oppo's board and counting on her lifelink to keep you alive will only result in you being sad when they Contempt her away.
Fall of the Thran: Oh FFS! I can't believe people are really even thinking about the card in THIS (!) deck. I want to cast a seven mana sorcery! Ideally with counterspell back up. I am terrified of someone else resolving Armageddon, not looking to cast it myself.
I understand that people are excited about the new set -- and it does look like a pretty decent design effort from WoTC (something that's long overdue) -- but let's not get carried away by Christmas Morning-itis. All of these cards may function in a UW control shell...but it's going to be a very different deck than the one we run now.
For me, the new set offers Syncopate and Seal Away. If you want to go Esper then the reprint land is good too. And that's it.
this is my first post. Sry for my clumsy english, but im not native speaker. Im playing some ponza for a while. My first tournament i went 2-2. Lost against this fast hollow one deck 0-2 and against CoCo. I didnt know how this combo works and the opponent got it fast. I did not have some good sb cards, because i didnt know what exactly to expect. Other games where against jund and a gifts deck. Here, blood moon on turn two, was the win condition.
Maybe here is some space for sb discussion for decks, which are not a good matchup for ponza, like fast Decks eg. bogles Deck.
My SB changes often, for trying some different options. But im not sure, because there is so much varations of decks.
Im testing some cards atm, like this wolfbriar elemental, because sometimes it feels like there is not enough pressure. Mana is often more than enough and so i thought this could be a good deal: eg for 7 Mana u get 4 Creatures on the table with one card. Sure you get a titan if u have one, but against white it is often removed after "comes into play".
I would like to test some other cards like Shivan Wumpus, Flametongue Kavu, Chain Reaction or Shrapnel Blast.
This Wumpus can be a turn 2 beater or it is like a additional Stone Rain. Often it is turn 2 BBE, but it feels some times weak, especially when u get a bird or elf. Even a stone rain feels not enough, sometimes.
Chain Reaction i think, can be good for some bigger creatures. Like this Hollow one 4/4. With an own Elf on the table and oppenents creatures there is a good chance to kill everything.
Shrapnel Blast i thought of, because often i have tracker with a few clues, but it gets removed really fast, most of the times. So i thought how i could get some additional value out of the clues, other than pia and kiran and of course card draws.
I saw this card Dualcaster Mage. I think this could be some sb option. Sure it is not great hit by BBE.
So, this is what i want to tell you.
I thank you for reading this and would be glad if u tell your thoughts about this.
So I played a 8-man event Monday night with UW Approach, going 3-0. Got kind of lucky with my match-ups and draws though. There were three dinos players in the room and I got them all.
I the last round my oppo mulled to 5 in G2 after losing G1. Not going to go into a ton of detail here as this match-up is so lopsided it's not worth talking about. I will say that I beat one guy without casting any of my Settles. I remember it clearly because I had all four in my hand when I cast my second Approach in two turns.
Sorry for having to ask here, but is there anywhere that the Esper builds are discussed here? I have really loved playing the deck, but am pretty committed to the black cards in it. Thanks in advance!
Since it we can't talk about Esper or Jeskai Approach list here, which still seems funny to me
Agreed. I like being able to compare the builds since all three play a similar style and have similar challenges.
I'm not going to bother scrolling back, but I seem to recall a lot of discussion of the Jeskai and Esper variants. Until Baffling End came out I was firmly in the 3C versions, but I don't think that's necessary anymore.
BBE is going to be terrible in this deck. You guys are already talking about cutting BoP, weakening the T2 options which have long been a major success factor for Ponza. Someone started talking about Rabblemaster, FFS. There are only two placed BBE is going to be worth it's slot: Jund and Assault - and Assault already get's better value from its Blue cards.
Think it through: BBE is a hasty 3/2 that gives you a random <4 drop. A 3/2 for 4 in Modern is already unplayable. Cascade would often make the card worth thinking about, but only if you can control what you're going to hit. Let me tell you, cascading into Utopia Sprawl is never going to feel good. Same thing goes for the elf. So what are you hoping for? Blood Moon and Stone Rain? On T4! Guess what I want to be casting on 4. Titan! Or Dragon! I'm hoping to already have Blood Moon in play by then, or have already hit Stone Rain and Acid Moss. Moreover...if I haven't, I'm prolly losing and BBE isn't going to turn anything around for me.
Here's another thought: How often are you going to look at BBE and Stone Rain in your hand and decide to cast BBE? The correct answer is pretty much never. If you are about to lose to Shadow and need the blocker is pretty much the only thing I can think of, and that's not a winning line.
Go ahead and test the hell out of it, but I played BBE a ton when he was in standard (He was amazing in Swans) and won't be wasting time/slots on BBE in Ponza.
Pretty much the same approach only without Authority of the Consuls. I have a 4th Baffling End, a couple of two-mana counters and a third Champion coming in.
The Green looks like it could offer something, however if I'm going to play a G-based combo deck I'm probably going to run Scapeshift. It's fast, it's consistent and it's proven.
I sleeved up the Medvec deck and while I haven't played against a human being yet, I've goldfished about 30 draws to get a feel for which cards come up and it feels a bit clunky. Obviously you can't make game decisions without an opponent, but the number of times you get Kiki but no Exarch or vice-versa, isn't insignificant. On the other hand, I did get a couple of T2 kills. Going T1 Looting into T2 SSG/As Foretold/LE is pretty stupid. It also offers some very cute redundancies. T1 Looting discarding Kiki, T2/3 EOT Exarch into T3/4 Goryo's is pretty quaint. Finally if your oppo nukes your yard, you can always just play the combo on the table.
However, it is a pure combo deck and very different to the control deck we have been discussing here. While I have no objection to the two decks sharing space -- especially given what appears to be a lack of energy being given to individual discussion boards -- it will be important to make sure we differentiate between the decks we are discussing as we go so people can pay attention to the decks they are personally focused on.
I've had the same experiences against Burn decks. The only times I've beaten them, it's been after board on the back of Leyline of Sanctity. Or Two Leylines of Sanctity.
I've put together the RU version with Hollow Ones and Dragonlords for a fun switch up. It's not as competitive as the Mono-U version, but it has its own amusement factors. I am hoping to get some thoughts on what kind of transitional SB to run. I am not in love with the Aggro sideboard that Magic Aids is running. Right now I have 3 Kiki-Jiki, 4 Exarchs, 2 Pestermites, 4 Spirit Guides and 2 Dispels. The alternatives that come to mind off the top of my head with be Breach/Emrakul or Platinum Emperion combo.
I figure I'll have some fun with this for a week, then go back to control.
Yeah...that was about the wrongiest wrong I've ever wronged.
I agree wholeheartedly with codaddy. Some really suspect choices there. I'm not going to worry about the pros and cons of Teferi until I can test it, but Evolving Wilds is dubious for a couple of reasons. Only 2 Settles, only 2 Approaches and the SB is a mess. Although, the use of Lyra in the transformational board makes some sense to me. I dislike her in the MB, but going with a mix of Cats and Angels for G2 might make a little sense. I also like the Memorial to Genius. I used to run the other land that did that in my first version of this deck, but it rotated.
Also, comparing Lyra to Baneslayer is more than a little bit strong. I get that she's a 5 mana 5/5 flyer with lifelink and that's good, but Walletslayer isn't legendary. Also, Walletslayer usually went in decks that are very different to the one we are running. More often than know you drew removal out with things like Knight of the White Orchid and other dorks. Those decks were generally just more reliant on dorks than we are.
As for Lyra Dawnbringer: Yeah, let's just turn on all the removal clogging up our opponents' hands. One of the things that has us so well positioned right now is that most oppos are running 8-12 removal cards that do almost nothing against us. Even when we run Gearhulks, they tend to function more as extra Settles and Glimpses than actual threats. They do their primary job on cast and if you get to block or turn them sideways then you are getting a bonus. I don't usually care that much when my Gearhulk is killed right away. Playing Lyria instead of sweeping your oppo's board and counting on her lifelink to keep you alive will only result in you being sad when they Contempt her away.
Fall of the Thran: Oh FFS! I can't believe people are really even thinking about the card in THIS (!) deck. I want to cast a seven mana sorcery! Ideally with counterspell back up. I am terrified of someone else resolving Armageddon, not looking to cast it myself.
I understand that people are excited about the new set -- and it does look like a pretty decent design effort from WoTC (something that's long overdue) -- but let's not get carried away by Christmas Morning-itis. All of these cards may function in a UW control shell...but it's going to be a very different deck than the one we run now.
For me, the new set offers Syncopate and Seal Away. If you want to go Esper then the reprint land is good too. And that's it.
Sorry pal, but Dualcaster Mage is not a legal Modern card.
I the last round my oppo mulled to 5 in G2 after losing G1. Not going to go into a ton of detail here as this match-up is so lopsided it's not worth talking about. I will say that I beat one guy without casting any of my Settles. I remember it clearly because I had all four in my hand when I cast my second Approach in two turns.
I'm not going to bother scrolling back, but I seem to recall a lot of discussion of the Jeskai and Esper variants. Until Baffling End came out I was firmly in the 3C versions, but I don't think that's necessary anymore.
Think it through: BBE is a hasty 3/2 that gives you a random <4 drop. A 3/2 for 4 in Modern is already unplayable. Cascade would often make the card worth thinking about, but only if you can control what you're going to hit. Let me tell you, cascading into Utopia Sprawl is never going to feel good. Same thing goes for the elf. So what are you hoping for? Blood Moon and Stone Rain? On T4! Guess what I want to be casting on 4. Titan! Or Dragon! I'm hoping to already have Blood Moon in play by then, or have already hit Stone Rain and Acid Moss. Moreover...if I haven't, I'm prolly losing and BBE isn't going to turn anything around for me.
Here's another thought: How often are you going to look at BBE and Stone Rain in your hand and decide to cast BBE? The correct answer is pretty much never. If you are about to lose to Shadow and need the blocker is pretty much the only thing I can think of, and that's not a winning line.
Go ahead and test the hell out of it, but I played BBE a ton when he was in standard (He was amazing in Swans) and won't be wasting time/slots on BBE in Ponza.
However, it is a pure combo deck and very different to the control deck we have been discussing here. While I have no objection to the two decks sharing space -- especially given what appears to be a lack of energy being given to individual discussion boards -- it will be important to make sure we differentiate between the decks we are discussing as we go so people can pay attention to the decks they are personally focused on.
I figure I'll have some fun with this for a week, then go back to control.