The situation here is ridiculous. Start with an obscenely low cap and then charge $2 for every gig over that (when it costs them what? a penny?).
This is pretty much a slick maneuver by Bell to a) kill Netflix which recently came in and threatened their business model of charging really high prices for movies on demand and b) to kill the small ISP's who offer no cap Internet but get the bandwidth from Bell (basically, us Canadian taxpayers paid for the infrastructure, then the CRTC sold it to Bell to let them price gouge us but forced them to provide bandwidth to other ISP's).
The side-effects (no YouTube, Steam etc.) don't really matter to them.
Yay for the CRTC being in bed with the big telecoms.
Luckily, the Conservatives have indicated that they will reverse this bill.
...coincidentally, right on time for them to get reelected.
At first glance, the evidence you mentioned seemed to check out. Gut was telling me otherwise, though, so I went back and had another look.
OK.
The one thing that is bothering me about Syrenz is what Cyan pointed out that as people said he wasn't being as aggressive as his town games he started shifting his behaviour to be more aggressive.
Going to reread MH. Didn't really see her last couple of posts as very scummy, but she's using a lot of jokes and pandering to players which I don't like.
This is the worst vote in this game. You are rocketing up the scum list.
On a side note: unvote: Vote Azrael
Az what reactions did you hope to obtain via your faked pr, rampant posting in said fake pr throughout the forums, and specifically your recent post stating we should vote for you (need I remind you guys Az usually is telling the truth when he says things like "vote for me! It will help you guys!"
Frankly Az may be town, but we cannot allow him to just "be Az being Az". It's too easy to get lulled into a feeling that we should allow him to be aloof because he is probably helping us. However, I say the benefits of Az being aloof and town are far outweighed by the potential detriments of Az acting aloof and actually being scum.
Az needs to be drawn into the game in language that isn't that of insanity, or he needs to be voted for.
Alright, first I would like to whole-heartedly apologize to all of you. I had originally intended to only skip through the random phase, but after that, whenever I went back to catch up I'd read a while, then get distracted and not end up back here until way too late get caught up. So, again, sorry for this. Unfortunately, now it is once again too late for a large post, but I will say that I am considering Syrenz as mostly town, and like Azrael as scum the best. Vote: Azrael.
I do this in every game? I'm pretty sure the only other game I played with you recently I did do this, you were scum, and you poo-pooed it like you are doing here. Last time you said "it's obvious you are only motivated by a gigantic chip on your shoulder" or something to that effect.
Anyways, since you are obviously not going to cooperate, I would again like to ask for people to vote Az. I mean at the least we should take him deadly serious when he says we should vote for him :rolleyes:. Or we could just let him do whatever he wants based on reputation and hope he isn't scum.
I don't really understand what your position is on Az. Are you saying that we should lynch him and hope he is scum?
Let's look a little more closely at the sequence of events (I'm big on timelines these days.)
79: I outline my suspicions of Syrenz. 80: Syrenz responds. 84: Az calls me scummy for my attack on Syrenz. 91: AI continues his attacks on Syrenz. 92: Skander backs Syrenz's response to Cyan's vote (implicitly showing he thinks Syrenz is town) citing an example of how he behaved similarly in Doha Mafia without providing links. 94: MH says Syrenz is town. 95: Cyan restates that he thinks Syrenz is scum. 98: Az states he suspects Cyan and I. 99: Having now gone back to reference the episode in Doha to which Skander referred, I present posts 1152 and 1153 from that game, then state that I'm sold by Skander's evidence. 104: Arcadic states he thinks Syrenz has "come out worse" from that exchange. 105: Cyan states he doesn't think that the posts Skander mentioned and that I displayed are actually relevant to this situation. 107: Syrenz responds to AI and Cyan. 108: kpaca states that Syrenz is scum and votes him in follow-up post 109. 110: Ged posts some wishy-washy stuff with no clear conclusion. 115: I attack Syrenz, quoting posts 1152 and 1153 from Doha in their entirety to illustrate the contrast between Syrenz's posts in this game.
Syrenz says that the difference in position between posts 99 and 115 makes me scum. You don't go that far, stating only that I'm not "genuinely analyzing the meta" and "fitting the meta to whatever read you want to have on him."
Firstly, the latter quote doesn't mean that I'm scum and it doesn't mean that what I posted isn't accurate. Townies fit metas, posts, cases, any sort of evidence into their current reads all the time.
Secondly, I dispute the claim that "the tide was turning" between posts 79 and 99, then again between 99 and 115. What actually happened was that two players who hadn't commented on the Syrenz situation before post 99 backed Syrenz as town (Skander and Azrael) and two players who hadn't commented on the Syrenz situation before post 115 attacked him as scum (kpaca and Arcadic.) Nobody changed his or her position except me. AI and Cyan maintained their attacks on Syrenz; MH, Az and Skander maintained that he was not scum. All that happened was that I changed my mind. Like I already said, I went back and closely reviewed the actual posts from this game and Doha again, then came to a new conclusion.
Looking at your timeline I see it isn't as bad as I thought. But I'm still kind of confused what exactly made you go back and review the meta more closely.
Thanks to everyone who expressed concern for me. I left Egypt years ago and now live in the United States (after first spending time in the UK), so my internet isn't actually cut off.
Good to hear
I'm getting slightly lost in this Syrenz-meta argument (don't really see a huge difference between the different games) but I liked Syrenz's point that you accepted my initial meta read but then went back and reread it when the tide changed again. That doesn't read as genuinely trying to analyze his meta, that reads as fitting the meta to whatever read you want to have on him.
And shadowfury is probably just another gimmick. That or it's someone with 40 posts that joined 3 months ago that somehow A)found the mafia forum before any others and B)hasn't posted anywhere else on the site. And has never played another game of mafia, but didn't sign up for any basics, but signed up for a Specialty.
I thought he was a gimmick as well. That's kind of a key point here imo. If he's an experienced player then his post was extremely opportunistic. If he's a newb then it's not a big deal. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt because I don't know of anyone who's lied about being a gimmick (except for players that would be banned by outing themselves, i.e. jordman, naka).
I would bet quite a bit of money that shadowfury is a gimmick, and had already been treating him as such; not a noob, and actually an experienced and likely good player.
I really don't like this vote, and the hypocrisy behind it is humorous. But you literally straight barn someone else, and then vote. And while what Jobie posted are somewhat legit points against shadowfury, they aren't nearly strong enough for people to straight barn them without adding anything else to the wagon.
At least Ged tried to being something else in with his vote, although he kind of just rephrases what was already said. Still it was something. Your vote, the 2nd on shadowfury at the time, wouldn't really be questioned when shadowfury flipped town because you would have been on the wagon so early. So there is a lot to gain. And if it doesn't, then you can easily unvote and say something similar to "The evidence against him didn't really amount to anything blah de blah unvote" and nobody would really question that either, because at that point it would probably be very true.
So, the opportunity to get on the early wagon against someone who is most likely to be town (I really don't see a bus possible here), with little potential to gain attention when he flipped town, in addition to not giving anything else to justify his vote, makes him look very scummy in my eyes.
Did Nom_Anor plant the Deadly Tripwire on himself...and kill himself?
Red Omega killed him. It was an interesting scenario there, because the tripwire wouldn't trigger until the next night he was also immune to watch and tracks so Zionite simply saw Nom Anor target himself
Nom Anor couldn't trigger his own tripwires anyway because he was an Assassin.
Which reminds me, one of the things I was really happy at how it worked out were the Professions. It added flavour and also added interactivity. Professions allowed us to give an item-extra kill combined with the Jooya Berries (see Az's role) to the mafia and not worry about them bypassing the Jooya Berries' downside because Az was the only assassin on the scumteam.
I'm pretty happy with how the game turned out. I'm disappointed that the Contracts mechanic barely had any impact on the game given that it was our big draw, but I'm happy that the central game (abilities, items, flavor) was interesting enough that it didn't actually matter. I do think that Contracts have potential but they just didn't click in this game.
The one thing that I'm annoyed about is PM dying N1. His role was one of my favorites and it was a pity it didn't get the chance to see play.
Congrats to the town and atlseal on the win and great job modding Syrenz.
EDIT: This made me think of a neat role. Siamese twins. They share everything (like super powered lovers). One killed = both killed, one copped = both copped, etc.
I've had this idea as well. The thing is it's actually just a hydra-account with a double-vote when you think about it.
Name, preferably. If we wanted to take it a step further (although it seems a bit early to be doing this) we could discuss if and how our characters are related to one another in the story. Maybe another Day.
Other options include gender or whether your role PM references Vincent/the Red Faction in general, and if so, if it's in a positive or negative light. Any other ideas?
Nothing off the top of my head.
Why, did you hear that something happened to him?
Well, he lives in Egypt doesn't he? Quite a bit of turmoil there atm. They've cut off all Internet access.
Every time I see someone use 'D1' as a justification it makes me cringe. The fact that you only brought up 'it's D1' after some pressure makes me think it's an after-the-fact excuse and not what you were thinking when you voted Cyan.
Oh, and heads up, Cyan has never read me wrong. When it gets to mid game and he pegs me as town, you can bet that the only way it won't be true is if we're buddies. And even then he'll bus me.
I'm not liking how Zindabad barns Skander after it looks like people are vouching for me being town and agrees my posts are similar. And then after kpaca (and Arcadic) posts his support of the wagon, goes and agrees with Cyan that my posts are different (using the very same posts as before at that).
Really? Cyan states some doubt against dC's towniness, and this is how AI and Ged react? It's like you have no faith in him as a player. I, for one, would like to believe that a town Cyan would consider dC mod-confirmed town.
Vote: Cyan
This is an extremely opportunistic vote. This is also a nice sentence, especially considering it only comes up after some pressure:
I think he's faking his PR to make it harder for people to read him.
He hasn't done this as town in any games I've seen but everyone knows about the time he did it as scum.
Az likes to have his fun at the beginning of games. I don't know specifically about faking PR's but you were in Doha and he behaved in an odd manner there as well (as town).
Pretty sure you're aware enough as town to not try and place a second 'random vote' on someone, and savvy enough as scum to try and pass this move off as town.
Vote Syrenz
And what exactly is he doing here? Getting someone speedlynched?
Wait so if X player did that it would be ok? But if Y player did that it wouldn't be? No it is either acceptable on all grounds or unacceptable period. So explain. Who is it ok for and who isn't it ok for and why?
No, in this regard Cyan is correct. Of course different players have different expectations.
Here are the relevant responses to Cyan's vote. I wasn't bothered at all by Syrenz's vote, but his responses to Cyan were what interested me.
These posts I've quoted above - especially the bolded sections - remind me of scum who are voted early in the game for obviously innocuous "offenses." They know their attackers have got nothing, but (because of their guilty consciences) attempt to protest their innocence and to make it clear that what they did is either typical or something that "everyone does", which is usually completely true.
A townie in this situation ignores or dismisses Cyan. A scum takes him seriously because he's worried about what might develop from this non-existent scumtell.
This situation reminds me eerily of Doha mafia where on D1 AI attacked Syrenz (both town). Syrenz's responses there had much the same feeling as they do here, professing his innocence and saying that the attack was bogus.
If the wagon takes off he can pursue the mislynch while claiming the vote was random. If the wagon doesn't take off he can jump ship...while claiming the same.
Really? You think that his plan is to leave a random vote on you and hope that it makes it all the way to a lynch with nobody realizing that he hasn't commented on the wagon (he would have to not make any mention of you in your scenario) and that he's still random-voting on a serious wagon. The scum scenarios presented by you and Cyan are really bad.
P.S. Syrenz hasn't unvoted despite ample opportunity. Let's think about that for a second.
Please.
I think this random vote business is being blown out of proportion and zindabad's points don't do much for me either, considering Doha where Syrenz behaved in much the same way.
Oh I do, it's just very within peoples' character. And I like waiting until after most of an issue before commenting so that I can delay whoever's doing the stuff I find suspicious from finding out that I find them suspicious for as long as possible.
This is pretty much a slick maneuver by Bell to a) kill Netflix which recently came in and threatened their business model of charging really high prices for movies on demand and b) to kill the small ISP's who offer no cap Internet but get the bandwidth from Bell (basically, us Canadian taxpayers paid for the infrastructure, then the CRTC sold it to Bell to let them price gouge us but forced them to provide bandwidth to other ISP's).
The side-effects (no YouTube, Steam etc.) don't really matter to them.
Yay for the CRTC being in bed with the big telecoms.
Luckily, the Conservatives have indicated that they will reverse this bill.
...coincidentally, right on time for them to get reelected.
OK.
The one thing that is bothering me about Syrenz is what Cyan pointed out that as people said he wasn't being as aggressive as his town games he started shifting his behaviour to be more aggressive.
Going to reread MH. Didn't really see her last couple of posts as very scummy, but she's using a lot of jokes and pandering to players which I don't like.
Thanks
I had lots of fun creating and watching the game. It was especially enjoyable leaving all the hard bits to Syrenz
Hmm, I'm the 115th. Though I've got nothing on Cyan...
Just one of many
EDIT: ZDS won Most Funny Member
Why did you unvote atlseal? Additionally, what changed between this post and the one right before it?
Is this a pressure vote?
...because?
I don't really understand what your position is on Az. Are you saying that we should lynch him and hope he is scum?
Looking at your timeline I see it isn't as bad as I thought. But I'm still kind of confused what exactly made you go back and review the meta more closely.
Is this gut or do you have a reason for saying this?
Ugh, really?
Good to hear
I'm getting slightly lost in this Syrenz-meta argument (don't really see a huge difference between the different games) but I liked Syrenz's point that you accepted my initial meta read but then went back and reread it when the tide changed again. That doesn't read as genuinely trying to analyze his meta, that reads as fitting the meta to whatever read you want to have on him.
I thought he was a gimmick as well. That's kind of a key point here imo. If he's an experienced player then his post was extremely opportunistic. If he's a newb then it's not a big deal. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt because I don't know of anyone who's lied about being a gimmick (except for players that would be banned by outing themselves, i.e. jordman, naka).
Why is Shadowfury most likely town?
Red Omega killed him. It was an interesting scenario there, because the tripwire wouldn't trigger until the next night he was also immune to watch and tracks so Zionite simply saw Nom Anor target himself
Nom Anor couldn't trigger his own tripwires anyway because he was an Assassin.
Which reminds me, one of the things I was really happy at how it worked out were the Professions. It added flavour and also added interactivity. Professions allowed us to give an item-extra kill combined with the Jooya Berries (see Az's role) to the mafia and not worry about them bypassing the Jooya Berries' downside because Az was the only assassin on the scumteam.
The one thing that I'm annoyed about is PM dying N1. His role was one of my favorites and it was a pity it didn't get the chance to see play.
Congrats to the town and atlseal on the win and great job modding Syrenz.
I've had this idea as well. The thing is it's actually just a hydra-account with a double-vote when you think about it.
Nothing off the top of my head.
Well, he lives in Egypt doesn't he? Quite a bit of turmoil there atm. They've cut off all Internet access.
What does this mean?
Every time I see someone use 'D1' as a justification it makes me cringe. The fact that you only brought up 'it's D1' after some pressure makes me think it's an after-the-fact excuse and not what you were thinking when you voted Cyan.
Do not like.
Do like.
This is an extremely opportunistic vote. This is also a nice sentence, especially considering it only comes up after some pressure:
Unvote Vote atlseal
Az likes to have his fun at the beginning of games. I don't know specifically about faking PR's but you were in Doha and he behaved in an odd manner there as well (as town).
Sure. What do you have in mind?
And what exactly is he doing here? Getting someone speedlynched?
No, in this regard Cyan is correct. Of course different players have different expectations.
This situation reminds me eerily of Doha mafia where on D1 AI attacked Syrenz (both town). Syrenz's responses there had much the same feeling as they do here, professing his innocence and saying that the attack was bogus.
Really? You think that his plan is to leave a random vote on you and hope that it makes it all the way to a lynch with nobody realizing that he hasn't commented on the wagon (he would have to not make any mention of you in your scenario) and that he's still random-voting on a serious wagon. The scum scenarios presented by you and Cyan are really bad.
Please.
I think this random vote business is being blown out of proportion and zindabad's points don't do much for me either, considering Doha where Syrenz behaved in much the same way.
You 'like'? You must 'love'.
Indeed. Looks pretty awesome.
I really hope not :mad::mad::mad: