A UWb token control (Favorable Winds, Intangible Virtue, Lingering Souls) deck might have a lot of fun with him. Besides, who doesn't want to make an end of turn Vapor Snag even sweeter.
Remove a dude, deal a point of damage, gain a 2/2 flyer all for U? Yes please.
Really anxious to see what Ajani 3.0 has in store to go with Talrand.
I'm really interested in the Beast Tracker. I can really see it replacing Green Sun's Zenith in a lot of ways post-rotation. Not as good, granted, but it's all we'll likely have.
I'm also wondering about the other 3 legendaries... Really wanna see what they do.
MBC and UB Tempo / Mill control seem strong from the spoiled lists, but I'm not sure either will truly be competitive. I could well be wrong, though.
Okay, so I've got a few friends who are somewhat into Magic and heavily into Halo.
While browsing some altered art cards, I saw some really cool Halo art and thought that combining the two would be the perfect way to get my friends back / really into magic.
So, I pulled up an old casual deck I had and took a look at it. It seemed perfect. It's an old Jund Devour-ish deck that was, at one time, a for-fun standard deck. I could easily see it being similar to the Flood of the Halo universe with Garruk playing the part of Gravemind and Sprouting Thrinax's being Carrier Forms.
A few minor changes have been made here or there and the deck is not exactly the once-Standard deck it used to be.
THE CHALLENGE:
I've decided to do another 2 decks based loosely on the Halo universe.
Alliance = Bant
Covenant = Grixis
Each should:
...have a budget of about $100.
...have 2 Planeswalkers.
...be relatively balanced with the deck already provided.
Bonus points for including a theme (such as the token / sacrifice theme of the sample deck list) and tying the flavor of the card to the Halo universe in some way.
I dream of one day taking these three decks to an artist (I've a few priced out already) and having each card art altered to fit each respective faction perfectly.
I may also one day do a 4th [artifact] deck to cover the Sentinels.
Note: I'm not really looking for critique on the sample deck. However, if you have any ideas on it (and still keeping it close to the $100 or so it's already at) please share.
In all seriousness, while I'll admit it's *incredibly* unlikely,
they could give us two Izzet PW's soon-
A big, splashy, expensive one (Niv-Mizzet) and a smaller, more "standard" one (Ral Zarek, Jace).
One thing to keep in mind though-
Ral's appearance in DotP does not mean we are guaranteed a Ral Zarek PW at any time-
they could have created him just for that, but it would make sense for him to show up eventually.
1) Niv's not a walker. As smart and powerful as he is, he never got the spark.
2) I don't think they'll give us another U or R walker anytime soon. Maybe in 2 or 3 of RTR... But I don't think it'll be in 1 simply because they gave us a new U and a new R walker in AVR. And I highly doubt they'll give us 2 so close together.
3) Jace doesn't make a lot of sense to me as a UR walker.
4) Kiora Atua was in DOTP before Ral. We've yet to see her on a card, though.
The begining of the season is always full of aggro decks. Control takes a little while to adjust before it comes back. Cavern of Souls also helped scare a lot of players off of control.
Control's not dead, it's just lying in wait.
As for being a 'healthy format', that will only last until the 3-4 'best decks' rise to the top and people either play them or play to beat them.
But that one card is the only truly new thing aggro decks have against UB and the only thing people tout when they cry that UB Control is no longer viable in the new competitive standard.
The simple fact is that control is (as it has always been) severely meta dependent. In a meta where WRR and Esper Control has stomped out aggro (my meta), UB control reins. The rock-paper-scissors of standard is nothing new.
Does Cavern of Souls allow every threat aggro plays to get through? No. Each Cavern allows ONE creature a turn to be uncounterable. One. Creature. Of a certain type. It's not the end of the world. UB still runs removal. Ghost Quarter is still a card. Tamiyo and Frost Titan still tap permanents. Cavern forces the control player to think more. But it makes the aggro player lazy.
UB Control isn't dead because of Cavern of Souls. Aggro's not the best match-up ever. It never really was... and Cavern doesn't help. But it doesn't make things unwinnable either.
She's a threat that opponents will go out of their way to neutralize for fear of her emblem. She protects herself with her +1. And starts at a pretty high loyalty. She's pretty much perfect.
Here's a few of my favorite games with her:
UB Control (me) VS. Esper Walkers: I'm on the play. It's been a tough match and I'm pretty sure my opponent's running low on threats. He drops Giddeon on 8 lands, playing around my Mana Leak. The Gidfather is now his only threat on board and I have no way to deal with him in hand (I'm looking at a Black Sun's Zenith and crying a little inside). That is... Until I reread Tamiyo. I slam her down with a grin on my turn 8... And proceed to tap Giddeon turn after turn... The look on my opponent's face was priceless.
UWb Control (me) vs BW Tokens: It's about turn 9 or so... I've got Tamiyo out and she's in rough shape. She's been keeping a Doomed Traveler tapped down but my opponent's played a Lingering Souls and really wants her dead. Tamiyo goes to 3 on the attack and he flashes back Lingering looking to put her out on his next swing. On my turn, I topdeck a land. I'm feeling desperate... I -2 Tamiyo to draw three cards. I rip into a Day of Judgement, A Lingering Souls, and a Mana Leak. Day hits, Lingering hits, and the game is mine from there out.
This poll is no longer relevant. U/B Permission is basically dead in competitive Standard. Sure, it smacks the snot out of Esper and Solar Flare, but it just dies now versus all the G/W Aggro, W/x/x Humans, Zombies, even Pod, thanks to Cavern of Souls.
Right now, it is not even a playable deck.
Overstatement much?
My meta is nothing but Esper Walkers, Solar Flare, and WRR. UB cleans house here. A few kids bring zombies, pod, delver, and G/R. Humans is all but dead in my area.
Cavern of Souls is amazing for aggro decks. I won't ever delude myself into thinking that it's not. But it FAR from kills UB control. If anything, it makes running UB control more fun. People lean on the card like a crutch to play through counterspells for their creatures and I maindeck 3 Ghost Quarters (a luxury I have over 3 color decks thanks to a solid 2-color mana base).
UB Still runs spot removal for the creatures that get through and Mana Leaks, Negates, and Dissipates can still be used on non-Cavern creatures and any other permanent.
I just don't understand how people write off an entire archetype because of one card.
Okay, so... I haven't really read though much of the first 10 pages here... But has anyone thought about slipping in a Birthing Pod or 2? Seems like it could be a bit of fun.
This deck was originally played [as far as I've found] by Billy Vasilakis and Eric Beard at SCG Tampa in March. It was altered a bit by Frank Lepore. I'm not sure how well it did.
I haven't played it, but I removed a Geist and added a Mortarpod. I love that thing paired with deathtouch (from Vault or Garruk Wolves).
As to changes in your list:
> I'd drop the Entreat down to 2 max. It wins games, but you don't want to see it for your first 4 turns.
> Mcpatches is right, Parallel Lives needs to come out.
> Gavony Township definitely needs to be in your deck. But I like having it WITH Vault, not instead of it.
Cloudshift -(blink)-> Snapcaster -(flashback)-> Cloudshift -(blink)-> Snapcaster -(flashback)-> Something else (Gather the Townsfolk for 2 more dudes in the 2nd Main?)
Cloudshift is exiled upon flashback from Snapmeister so you can't just do it "until you have no mana left".
Actually, no on the dice. Do not use dice as "tokens" at a higher-REL event.
I usually bring a pair of each token my deck can create and dice.
Example: Lingering Souls makes 2 tokens, so I put out one token card and a die on it at 2. If I flash back after they tap, I produce the second token card and put a die on it as well (also at 2).
As I'll never have more than tapped or untapped tokens, I never need to worry about having more than 2 physical token cards for each creature type. I just move the die and remove the irrelevant token card when all the tokens end up the same way (tapped or untapped). It helps from cluttering up the space with a ton of tokens and creatures and whatnot. Things get messy and complicated like that.
However, be aware that tables get bumped and dice with more faces tend to roll more when pushed. This causes problems. Regular dice that aren't super round on the edges seem to work the best and I probably wouldn't take anything with more faces than a standard 6-sided die.
Hope you guys can understand what I'm talking about with all my rambling...
However, I also agree that he's not that good. I'll be waiting for a few months before I pick mine up (similar to how I got my Sorin 2.0s)
A UWb token control (Favorable Winds, Intangible Virtue, Lingering Souls) deck might have a lot of fun with him. Besides, who doesn't want to make an end of turn Vapor Snag even sweeter.
Remove a dude, deal a point of damage, gain a 2/2 flyer all for U? Yes please.
Really anxious to see what Ajani 3.0 has in store to go with Talrand.
I'm also wondering about the other 3 legendaries... Really wanna see what they do.
MBC and UB Tempo / Mill control seem strong from the spoiled lists, but I'm not sure either will truly be competitive. I could well be wrong, though.
While browsing some altered art cards, I saw some really cool Halo art and thought that combining the two would be the perfect way to get my friends back / really into magic.
So, I pulled up an old casual deck I had and took a look at it. It seemed perfect. It's an old Jund Devour-ish deck that was, at one time, a for-fun standard deck. I could easily see it being similar to the Flood of the Halo universe with Garruk playing the part of Gravemind and Sprouting Thrinax's being Carrier Forms.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tukatongue Thallid
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Sprouting Thrinax
3 Scarland Thrinax
ENCHANTMENTS (7)
2 Necrogenesis
3 Grave Pact
2 Goblin Assault
2 Phyrexian Vault
1 Loxodon Warhammer
PLANESWALKERS (2)
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
SPELLS (3)
3 Terminate
LAND (23)
4 Khalni Garden
4 Savage Lands
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Treetop Village
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
THE CHALLENGE:
I've decided to do another 2 decks based loosely on the Halo universe.
Alliance = Bant
Covenant = Grixis
Each should:
...have a budget of about $100.
...have 2 Planeswalkers.
...be relatively balanced with the deck already provided.
Bonus points for including a theme (such as the token / sacrifice theme of the sample deck list) and tying the flavor of the card to the Halo universe in some way.
I dream of one day taking these three decks to an artist (I've a few priced out already) and having each card art altered to fit each respective faction perfectly.
I may also one day do a 4th [artifact] deck to cover the Sentinels.
Note: I'm not really looking for critique on the sample deck. However, if you have any ideas on it (and still keeping it close to the $100 or so it's already at) please share.
Thank you.
1) Niv's not a walker. As smart and powerful as he is, he never got the spark.
2) I don't think they'll give us another U or R walker anytime soon. Maybe in 2 or 3 of RTR... But I don't think it'll be in 1 simply because they gave us a new U and a new R walker in AVR. And I highly doubt they'll give us 2 so close together.
3) Jace doesn't make a lot of sense to me as a UR walker.
4) Kiora Atua was in DOTP before Ral. We've yet to see her on a card, though.
Someone, somewhere, needs to work up a UG Draw-Go list. This land would ensure that you don't ever have to tap mana on your own turn.
The begining of the season is always full of aggro decks. Control takes a little while to adjust before it comes back. Cavern of Souls also helped scare a lot of players off of control.
Control's not dead, it's just lying in wait.
As for being a 'healthy format', that will only last until the 3-4 'best decks' rise to the top and people either play them or play to beat them.
The simple fact is that control is (as it has always been) severely meta dependent. In a meta where WRR and Esper Control has stomped out aggro (my meta), UB control reins. The rock-paper-scissors of standard is nothing new.
Does Cavern of Souls allow every threat aggro plays to get through? No. Each Cavern allows ONE creature a turn to be uncounterable. One. Creature. Of a certain type. It's not the end of the world. UB still runs removal. Ghost Quarter is still a card. Tamiyo and Frost Titan still tap permanents. Cavern forces the control player to think more. But it makes the aggro player lazy.
UB Control isn't dead because of Cavern of Souls. Aggro's not the best match-up ever. It never really was... and Cavern doesn't help. But it doesn't make things unwinnable either.
She's a threat that opponents will go out of their way to neutralize for fear of her emblem. She protects herself with her +1. And starts at a pretty high loyalty. She's pretty much perfect.
Here's a few of my favorite games with her:
UB Control (me) VS. Esper Walkers: I'm on the play. It's been a tough match and I'm pretty sure my opponent's running low on threats. He drops Giddeon on 8 lands, playing around my Mana Leak. The Gidfather is now his only threat on board and I have no way to deal with him in hand (I'm looking at a Black Sun's Zenith and crying a little inside). That is... Until I reread Tamiyo. I slam her down with a grin on my turn 8... And proceed to tap Giddeon turn after turn... The look on my opponent's face was priceless.
UWb Control (me) vs BW Tokens: It's about turn 9 or so... I've got Tamiyo out and she's in rough shape. She's been keeping a Doomed Traveler tapped down but my opponent's played a Lingering Souls and really wants her dead. Tamiyo goes to 3 on the attack and he flashes back Lingering looking to put her out on his next swing. On my turn, I topdeck a land. I'm feeling desperate... I -2 Tamiyo to draw three cards. I rip into a Day of Judgement, A Lingering Souls, and a Mana Leak. Day hits, Lingering hits, and the game is mine from there out.
Overstatement much?
My meta is nothing but Esper Walkers, Solar Flare, and WRR. UB cleans house here. A few kids bring zombies, pod, delver, and G/R. Humans is all but dead in my area.
Cavern of Souls is amazing for aggro decks. I won't ever delude myself into thinking that it's not. But it FAR from kills UB control. If anything, it makes running UB control more fun. People lean on the card like a crutch to play through counterspells for their creatures and I maindeck 3 Ghost Quarters (a luxury I have over 3 color decks thanks to a solid 2-color mana base).
UB Still runs spot removal for the creatures that get through and Mana Leaks, Negates, and Dissipates can still be used on non-Cavern creatures and any other permanent.
I just don't understand how people write off an entire archetype because of one card.
I haven't played it, but I removed a Geist and added a Mortarpod. I love that thing paired with deathtouch (from Vault or Garruk Wolves).
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Hero of Bladehold
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Primeval Titan
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Strangleroot Geist
PLANESWALKERS [2]
2 Garruk Relentless
SORCERIES [7]
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Lingering Souls
ENCHANTMENTS [2]
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Mortarpod
LANDS [25]
6 Forest
2 Gavony Township
3 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Swamp
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Vault of the Archangel
2 Woodland Cemetery
1 Acidic Slime
1 Batterskull
2 Celestial Purge
2 Corrosive Gale
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Naturalize
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Timely Reinforcements
Keep in mind that this is a pre-AVR list.
As to changes in your list:
> I'd drop the Entreat down to 2 max. It wins games, but you don't want to see it for your first 4 turns.
> Mcpatches is right, Parallel Lives needs to come out.
> Gavony Township definitely needs to be in your deck. But I like having it WITH Vault, not instead of it.
Cloudshift is exiled upon flashback from Snapmeister so you can't just do it "until you have no mana left".
I usually bring a pair of each token my deck can create and dice.
Example: Lingering Souls makes 2 tokens, so I put out one token card and a die on it at 2. If I flash back after they tap, I produce the second token card and put a die on it as well (also at 2).
As I'll never have more than tapped or untapped tokens, I never need to worry about having more than 2 physical token cards for each creature type. I just move the die and remove the irrelevant token card when all the tokens end up the same way (tapped or untapped). It helps from cluttering up the space with a ton of tokens and creatures and whatnot. Things get messy and complicated like that.
However, be aware that tables get bumped and dice with more faces tend to roll more when pushed. This causes problems. Regular dice that aren't super round on the edges seem to work the best and I probably wouldn't take anything with more faces than a standard 6-sided die.
Hope you guys can understand what I'm talking about with all my rambling...