If you go with a strong creature swapping route, giving things like Blazing Archon to someone could be entertaining. Suddenly they can't be attacked. You could still take their best guy, so it still benefits you. Just instead of the usual of trading a 1/1 token for their dude, you give them something that's actually good as well.
Ugh, why Collective Voyage? That card does NOT create games I want to remember. It creates games where super spike combos out and wins on turn five because timmies one and two fed him an extra eight lands.
You missed my edit as well: Hunted Troll. Came up with another card that suits the troll and can be used to help others out, but it might be too janky: Asceticism.
I didn't miss yours, I just never looked for an edit, lol.
In the same vein Hunted Phantasm is a pretty decent card on it's own. And giving the guy with the weakest board five chump blockers makes him quite happy.
True, I guess both are good enough, and those 1/1s aren't going to hurt me much.
Right, you only get to use one per activation, but that still works just fine with a sac outlet. Take Altar of Dementia, Woodfall Primus, and Mikaeus the Unhallowed.
1. Sacrifice the Woodfall to Altar, both Persist and Undying trigger. Choose one, let's say Persist.
2. Woodfall persists back with a -1/-1 counter on it.
3. Sacrifice the Woodfall to the Altar again. Persist won't trigger due to the -1/-1, but Undying will.
4. Woodfall Undies back with a +1/+1 counter on it.
5. Sacrifice Woodfall to the Altar, Undying doesn't trigger due to the +1/+1 counter, but Persist does.
6. Repeat forever.
Just figured it out, lol! Took me about 5 minutes in my head until i finally realized you can "every other" it. Let Undying trigger, than Persist, and repeat.
What do you mean by this, I am fairly certain that persist + undying + sac outlet means you get infinite sacrifices. Is there some other interaction that does not work?
I was wondering the same thing when I saw that. I'm pretty sure that persist and undying do work together.
From everything I've read, it does not.
It's an either or; either you let Persist trigger or you let Undying trigger. By the time one has triggered, the other cannot because your creature is already on the battlefield.
Up to you Scott, add in whatever you think would be best! I will say that Early Harvest seems like it's the most versatile, but depending on what else you plan on adding later, Elder Druid can also do some really fun stuff.
True, though Garruk is completely uninteractive. I'm not sure how that balances vs. Early Harvest. But, I'm just going to play the deck, you all are the builders, so it's your choice!
Puzzle Box always makes for fun games - it helps the screwed players catch up (land drops + new hand), while keeping the players who are ahead from winning (it's hard to combo off when your hand keeps cycling). And it isn't strictly group hug like Howling Mine.
And we've officially deviated from group hug, I love it! I know there's a LOT of hatred for Puzzle Box out there, but I think it's hilarious! Great suggestion!
I actually went back and re-edited the post to say Angus. I think Angus fits the idea of the deck better, but I mean... I don't know. I listed my reason in my post, in any case The only other one I could think would be good for this sort of deck might be Ragnar?
And thanks! She hates playing, but at the end of every game I know she secretly enjoyed beating me, lol.
I think I understand your intent, that's why I selected Deathless Angel. I think the card is awesome on its own, but it can also be used politically. (I was one of the folks who wished more cards included the word "target" when the Mothership ran its article on the subject.) I already have a few more suggestions for our list, but I'm waiting until more folks jump in.
It's a perfect example of what I'm looking for. Thank you.
I like the idea of sometimes doing amazing things that do not always profit you, but sometimes profit someone else. Yeah, I love to win, but is it really always about winning? I've done things that allowed my wife, who only plays because I ask her to, pull off incredible moves she never would have before, just to see her smile when she does it. I say bravo for making a memorable game that you guys will talk about weeks to come, rather than go for the throat.
Exactly. Well said Scott.
@Avarice Totem: this is another great example. It's not a "tree hugger" card, because it allows me to steal opponent's permanents, but it also gives them the opportunity to do the same. It's interactive with my opponents and is genuinely fun!
How about something like Minds Aglow or Avarice Totem? The former gives everyone something they want and it's a combined effort, and the latter should hopefully get a few laughs (or groans) as it gets passed around the table.
Those both sounds like very fun ideas!
@Grinning Demon: Deathless Angel is a great example of what I'm trying to build. It is a very good card that can keep my stuff from dying AND it can have an affect on my opponent's permanents too. What I'm trying to say is I want to play cards that interact with the table, and not just my own stuff or one item. Does that make any sense?
The fact that a situation is unique makes it memorable. You just described that you did something that you will all remember for a long time with a card you probably used in a lot of games you don't remember.
It's not the deck or the cards that create memorable plays, it's the way you use them. No need to build a deck around that, it will probably repeat it's plays all the time and that way, it will no longer be unique...
I think the difference is, Living Death is probably the only card I had that had the ability to turn a game like that around, and made that play so memorable. But having a deck that has the ability to make plays like that is where I'm aiming. I'm having a bit of a hard time fleshing out what I'm trying ot say, but I hope everyone is getting the jist of it.
Not to be rude, but could you be more clear about how this request compares to "You Build The Deck: Group Hug"?
That's not rude at all, it's a valid question. The difference is, I don't want to build group hug. I want to build a deck that can and will win, but isn't focused on soley winning and, as Jivanmukta said "spike douchebag" plays.
What I really want is to go back to where I started in EDH, where it was about having fun and playing with people you enjoy, not about who can win, combo, etc. the fastest... which it has become in many areas (and many people seem to represent that here in how they talk to others).
I guess it's not entirely different, but group hug isn't the direction I want to head, at least that's now how I view it.
Recently, I was reading one of Sheldon's articles on SCG (located here), this particular article was announcing the new bannings/unbannings for commander, and while reading the article, I came across a line that, like many others, struck pretty close to home...
"Create games that you'd love to remember, not the ones others would like to forget."
Now, what that means may vary for some, but to me it simply means "have fun." Worry less about winning, combos, etc. and more about the game you're playing and who you're playing it with.
That next night, Thursday, was the weekly meet-up for my social playgroup that I've been playing in for years, and conincidentally have developed a lot of good friendships through that group. By the time we got our decks out, what Sheldon said had left my train of thought, and we all focused on the one thing anyone cared about: "WHAT??? PRIMEVAL GOT BANNED!?!"
Yes, it was quite the discussion, but eventually everyone settled down and shuffled up to play. Through the course of the first game, one of my good friends, Mike, was sitting on one Swamp and a Mox Diamond (both played first turn) and had been discarding every turn since. At that time, what Sheldon had said came back into my head; "Create games that you'd love to remember, not the ones others would like to forget." I realized that Mike actually had the biggest graveyard, and although I was fighting a tough battle to win this game (Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord + Lord of Extinction was my intended method), I thought "what if I didn't go for the win, and instead just tried to have fun?"
At that time, I cast, what was the WORST timed Living Death in the history of magic. It was met with quite a bit of 'shock and awe', but more importantly, the look on Mike's face when he realized that we was going to go from the worst board position to the best, was priceless. Nearly all of his graveyard was put into play, while I got back a lonely Sakura-Tribe Elder and my other opponents got back one or two irrelevant creatures. After triggers resolved, Mike was left with a full board (his yard contained multiple creatures with CiP abilities, two being "destroy target creature" abilities) and the only other creature out there was a lonely Tribe Elder.
Mike won that game in amazing fashion, and we will always remember that game because of it. Although I've invested a lot into my Jarad and Krenko decks and they win a good portion of the time, I realized that's not at all what matters. What really matters is having fun with friends and big splashly plays that you'll never forget. That is what the Rules Committee has been protecting, and I think I finally get it.
---------------------------------
As some of you may have skipped over the first part, I'll give you a tl;dr of this thread, I'm looking to build a deck that embodies Sheldon's quote, that will give me only as much enjoyment as I get out of my opponents and will be genuinely fun to play and play against. This is your challenege. I have not chosen a Commander, because that is part of the fun of a challenege. There is no budget to this list, and it can run as many nonbasics as the community likes, but I ask that you please keep the heart of what I've said here in mind.
I'll start by simply adding a card that I think can even out things like poor shuffling and mana shortages: Collective Voyage. It can also set ahead decks that were further ahead already, however, our most competitive decks have a distinct lack of basics, and Voyage punishes that.
Dragon Shield used to make these, except thicker and more room for cards. I know they fit 100 cards double sleeved and were near unbreakable in my "oopsies!" experience.
In the vein, what do you think of cards like Forbidden Orchard and Defense of the Heart?
Which we don't have...
I didn't miss yours, I just never looked for an edit, lol.
Tree Hugger lol...
True, I guess both are good enough, and those 1/1s aren't going to hurt me much.
Now THAT is a great example of what I'm talking about! Well done good sir!
Just figured it out, lol! Took me about 5 minutes in my head until i finally realized you can "every other" it. Let Undying trigger, than Persist, and repeat.
Thanks!
From everything I've read, it does not.
It's an either or; either you let Persist trigger or you let Undying trigger. By the time one has triggered, the other cannot because your creature is already on the battlefield.
Love it! It's one of those cards that sets you up to win and does it at a generally low cost.
Love Icy Manipulator! That's exactly the kind of card I was talking about! Nice!
... and since *almost* no one is reposting the deck with their add, I'll oblige.
1 Ragnar
Creatures [1]
1 Deathless Angel
1 Constant Mists
Sorceries [1]
1 Collective Voyage
1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
1 Icy Manipulator
38 Basics
Up to you Scott, add in whatever you think would be best! I will say that Early Harvest seems like it's the most versatile, but depending on what else you plan on adding later, Elder Druid can also do some really fun stuff.
True, though Garruk is completely uninteractive. I'm not sure how that balances vs. Early Harvest. But, I'm just going to play the deck, you all are the builders, so it's your choice!
If TV has taught us nothing...
And we've officially deviated from group hug, I love it! I know there's a LOT of hatred for Puzzle Box out there, but I think it's hilarious! Great suggestion!
Done!
1 Ragnar
Creatures [1]
1 Deathless Angel
1 Constant Mists
Sorceries [1]
1 Collective Voyage
1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
Lands [38]
38 Basics
If it wasn't for Collective Voyage and Veteran Explorer, I'd say Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer, though someone might be interested in having him in the deck regardless.
What about Karona, False God? She's pretty interactive, lol!
It's a perfect example of what I'm looking for. Thank you.
Haha, Pheldagriff is honestly one of the most hated commanders I've ever come across, lol... hence my worry of selecting it.
Exactly. Well said Scott.
@Avarice Totem: this is another great example. It's not a "tree hugger" card, because it allows me to steal opponent's permanents, but it also gives them the opportunity to do the same. It's interactive with my opponents and is genuinely fun!
Those both sounds like very fun ideas!
@Grinning Demon: Deathless Angel is a great example of what I'm trying to build. It is a very good card that can keep my stuff from dying AND it can have an affect on my opponent's permanents too. What I'm trying to say is I want to play cards that interact with the table, and not just my own stuff or one item. Does that make any sense?
I think the difference is, Living Death is probably the only card I had that had the ability to turn a game like that around, and made that play so memorable. But having a deck that has the ability to make plays like that is where I'm aiming. I'm having a bit of a hard time fleshing out what I'm trying ot say, but I hope everyone is getting the jist of it.
That's not rude at all, it's a valid question. The difference is, I don't want to build group hug. I want to build a deck that can and will win, but isn't focused on soley winning and, as Jivanmukta said "spike douchebag" plays.
What I really want is to go back to where I started in EDH, where it was about having fun and playing with people you enjoy, not about who can win, combo, etc. the fastest... which it has become in many areas (and many people seem to represent that here in how they talk to others).
I guess it's not entirely different, but group hug isn't the direction I want to head, at least that's now how I view it.
"Create games that you'd love to remember, not the ones others would like to forget."
Now, what that means may vary for some, but to me it simply means "have fun." Worry less about winning, combos, etc. and more about the game you're playing and who you're playing it with.
That next night, Thursday, was the weekly meet-up for my social playgroup that I've been playing in for years, and conincidentally have developed a lot of good friendships through that group. By the time we got our decks out, what Sheldon said had left my train of thought, and we all focused on the one thing anyone cared about: "WHAT??? PRIMEVAL GOT BANNED!?!"
Yes, it was quite the discussion, but eventually everyone settled down and shuffled up to play. Through the course of the first game, one of my good friends, Mike, was sitting on one Swamp and a Mox Diamond (both played first turn) and had been discarding every turn since. At that time, what Sheldon had said came back into my head; "Create games that you'd love to remember, not the ones others would like to forget." I realized that Mike actually had the biggest graveyard, and although I was fighting a tough battle to win this game (Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord + Lord of Extinction was my intended method), I thought "what if I didn't go for the win, and instead just tried to have fun?"
At that time, I cast, what was the WORST timed Living Death in the history of magic. It was met with quite a bit of 'shock and awe', but more importantly, the look on Mike's face when he realized that we was going to go from the worst board position to the best, was priceless. Nearly all of his graveyard was put into play, while I got back a lonely Sakura-Tribe Elder and my other opponents got back one or two irrelevant creatures. After triggers resolved, Mike was left with a full board (his yard contained multiple creatures with CiP abilities, two being "destroy target creature" abilities) and the only other creature out there was a lonely Tribe Elder.
Mike won that game in amazing fashion, and we will always remember that game because of it. Although I've invested a lot into my Jarad and Krenko decks and they win a good portion of the time, I realized that's not at all what matters. What really matters is having fun with friends and big splashly plays that you'll never forget. That is what the Rules Committee has been protecting, and I think I finally get it.
---------------------------------
As some of you may have skipped over the first part, I'll give you a tl;dr of this thread, I'm looking to build a deck that embodies Sheldon's quote, that will give me only as much enjoyment as I get out of my opponents and will be genuinely fun to play and play against. This is your challenege. I have not chosen a Commander, because that is part of the fun of a challenege. There is no budget to this list, and it can run as many nonbasics as the community likes, but I ask that you please keep the heart of what I've said here in mind.
I'll start by simply adding a card that I think can even out things like poor shuffling and mana shortages: Collective Voyage. It can also set ahead decks that were further ahead already, however, our most competitive decks have a distinct lack of basics, and Voyage punishes that.
1 Up To You
1 Your Choice
1 Whatchya Thinkin
1 Collective Voyage
38 Basics
Check.
Check.
...aaaaand check!
Dragon Shield used to make these, except thicker and more room for cards. I know they fit 100 cards double sleeved and were near unbreakable in my "oopsies!" experience.