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  • posted a message on Steam Augury
    Quote from Smooth Criminal
    But there are no blue draw card that can dig deeper than 5 at this manacost range. Being worse than nonexistant card doesn't make a card bad.

    Obviously if there was better draw spell, you'd put it in your deck. So, what draw spells are strictly better than augury in Std and Modern at 3-5 mana?

    Who is claiming strictly better? I even said this card may have a niche in the metagame. But the card is too risky for most decks. Finding only one out in the top 5 will lose games for you, and it will happen often enough to affect results if your deck cannot turn the downside of the card into an upside.

    If we are sticking to UR control decks in standard, Thoughtflare will generally be better for consistently digging for outs, Opportunity will be better as a Sphinx's Revelation look-alike, and Divination might have to be used if earlier drawing is needed. These options are more consistent in their effects, and control thrives on consistency.

    Outside of Instants/Sorceries, Jace, Architect of Thought immediately comes to mind.

    I will repeat: This card may have a niche in standard because of its minuscule card pool.

    I hope you were kidding about modern. While nothing is strictly better, decks that want this card will probably want Gifts Ungiven more, and that is all that really needs to be said there.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Steam Augury
    Why are people evaluating this card in relation to FoF? Seems to me this card is more akin to Gifts Ungiven. What makes Gifts playable? The ability to control precisely what cards are in the pile and to set up traps for the opponent where no matter what cards they choose, the user gains an advantage. This means the deck needs cards that use the graveyard as a resource to make Gifts shine.

    This card is leagues apart from Fact or Fiction, but it is also much worse than Gifts. You cannot expect the top five cards to give you the ability to set up Gift traps. The ideal situation is an unreasonable one. If you expect your opponent to NOT know what card you need by turn 4, I don't know what to say.

    You opponent will almost certainly know what deck you are playing by turn four. This card is 2 colors, so that severely limits what decks it could fit into. This card is also not suited for certain play styles (such as combo or aggro). If you have this card in your deck, your opponent knows what you are basically planning to do, especially by turn four. (URX Control "Draw-Go"esque control)

    Therefore, your opponent will choose a pile based on board state and knowledge of the deck they are facing, which is enough information to ensure you get the worst of the two piles, regardless of how you engineer them. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but you have to be aware of that. You cannot bet on the off-chance that you will be able to "out-smart" your opponents. You have to judge the card in its worst state, then see if the benefits outweigh the risk in using the card.

    Quote from Smooth Criminal »
    Oh c'mon. There aren't that many bad scenarios for this.

    One of the following happens:
    - you don't need specific card
    - you need specific card and it isn't there in 5
    - you need specific card and there are 1 of them in 5
    - you need specific card and there are 2+ of them in 5

    Only 1 out of 4 is bad outcome.

    I count 2 bad outcomes there, which is one more than Divination or Thoughtflare. Needing a specific card and seeing either 0/5 or 1/5 are both bad outcomes.

    I am not saying this card is unplayable, but I am saying this card has a serious downside that cannot just be written off.

    This card seems to put your deck to the test. The deck this card fits into cannot value card quality higher than card advantage, since you have a good chance of not getting what you will need, even if this card finds it in the top 5. This type of mechanic seems to be in the same vein as Covenant of Minds, though obviously this card is better by virtue of being an instant and only 4 mana (at the very least).

    So, with a power level somewhere in between Covenant of Minds (unplayable) to Gifts Ungiven (playable in decks built around it), I say this card has a chance at filling a certain niche in a deck (whose existence in the format is not as stable as, for example, RDW) but other options will be generally better. If this card can find a deck that takes advantage of its perks (card advantage, graveyard shenanigans, EOT shenanigans) while maneuvering around its offsets (punisher effect) we could see this card make as big a splash as Vexing Devil, which is to say present in the metagame, but just barely.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [[M14]] Liturgy of Blood
    All right, so I was on the right track in comparing it with Corpsehatch. Both destroy a creature and give some mana back. They are also both constructed unplayable.

    At least it is common, unrestricted creature removal for limited.

    I disagree. At either instant or 2BB it would see tournament constructed play. At 3BB and sorcery though I just don't see it happening.

    2BB and sorcery might have been tournament worthy. But 3BB and instant? I don't see how that would be playable. What would you be using the BBB for during your opponent's turn to justify the 5 mana you spent?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Deck] Rats at the door
    I'm not sure if you are over evaluating Door of Destinies or if you are misreading it. It only triggers on casting the rats, so Ogre Slumlord won't ever trigger the Door, nor will Pack Rat tokens, or Immortal Servitude.

    You have to have creatures to play after the Door is on board, but since the rats are so cheap, it really encourages you to play the rats first. By turn 5, how many rats will you realistically have kept in hand? Also, having it as a four-of runs the risk of drawing multiples, and since you would have to charge that newly drawn one up as well, multiples aren't so desirable. 3 Doors are the maximum.

    This deck needs a draw engine to get it going, and since your rats seem to like dying, Dark Prophecy may have a home here. I suppose you could try Underworld Connections as well. I would probably stay away from Blood Scrivener since it wouldn't stick around after board wipes, but it is an option too.

    There are ways to preemptively deal with Verdict, like Duress or the new Lifebane Zombie, if it is the largest issue. Or if you want to just give control in general a headache, put a Liliana of the Veil on the board.

    Also, Gutterskulk and Drainpipe Vermin are pretty bad cards. The Vermin may be necessary since you could use them to power up door immediately on turn 5, but the Gutterskulks are unnecessary. You really don't need that many rats so much as you need the draw engine.
    I'd say cut two Drainpipes and all the Gutterskulks.

    You probably don't have much of a matchup versus aggro decks, since their creatures are going to be much bigger than your tiny rats, which don't start growing until turn 5 (not including pack rat of course). Typhoid Rats aren't as threatening when every creature coming at you is a threat. I think your deck needs more removal alongside the draw engine of choice.

    With some changes, this deck could still be fun and rat themed while also stealing a few more wins than before. I say keep tweaking it!

    The deck really could use a Bad Moon-esque card or a proper lord. The rats don't hold up well by themselves (which is a flavor win on the bright side). Adaptive Automaton would have been a nice addition were it still around. They really should reprint that. It makes casual theme decks a ton more fun.

    I would say try something like:

    Then, I'd tweak from there.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[M14]] Liturgy of Blood
    Guys, this isn't color bleed. And I don't need to point to ancient cards to support this idea.

    But be aware, I am not talking about ritual effects (which are solidly red) since this isn't a ritual effect. This is a mechanic that returns some part of the mana you spent for an overcosted spell back.

    Who here remembers Rise of Eldrazi's //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+[eldrazi">+[spawn]"]Eldrazi Spawn token creature mechanic? The colors that created Eldrazi Spawn tokens were as follows:

    1. Green (Makes sense. The tokens fit with green's mastery of ramp)

    2. Red (Makes sense. The tokens had only one-shot mana ramp effects)

    And most important to this discussion
    3. Black

    There were four black cards that created Eldrazi Spawn tokens. Besides Pawn of Ulamog, the other three cards were fairly similar to Liturgy of [the Dead]'s mechanic.

    Dread Drone
    Essence Feed
    And this card's close relative: Corpsehatch

    So, it seems black has precedence for the ability to get a little bit of mana back from an overcosted spell.

    Also, why hasn't Corpsehatch been mentioned yet? It is a common creature removal that gives back temporary mana, albeit in the form of Eldrazi Spawn.

    Looking at Corpsehatch, I am thinking this card probably has cost 5 to stay a common. Sure, you don't get the tokens for blockers with Corpsehatch, but you get to destroy any creature and gain an extra mana in return with Liturgy. Sounds about the same power level to me, so they probably share the same mana cost as commons (unless they are really pushing this effect of course).

    My memory and reading comprehension skills failed me a bit there. -_- Corpsehatch is an uncommon.
    In that case, I have no idea how this could cost 4 mana and still be a common! That's a hell of a push!
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Single Card Discussion] Desecration Ooze
    Quote from Complex Pants
    I guess the way I think about him is the fact that he is a massive beater that can beat up a Baneslayer for 4cmc. ...

    Unless Baneslayer's controller is saccing to the demon's ability (highly unlikely), Baneslayer Angel's protection means Desecration Demon won't be beating up any Baneslayers anytime soon.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on gain control of permanent instant
    Quote from DrWorm
    Yes, I am very clear on that. What I am not clear on is exactly what the OP is trying to do to abuse (make use of) it.

    I can't speak for the OP, but this trick he is talking about could play a central role in a casual Leyline of Singularity+ Clone Effects + Permanent Stealing Effects deck.

    Though, I cannot see this trick coming into play at any other time. Nor do I see why the stealing effect needs to be instant.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Making a Scarecrow deck...
    Quote from Moss_Elemental
    And with all those artifact creatures, how about Scarecrone to get them back and draw a card?

    You could also use the less thematic Trading Post if you like the returning artifact cards to your hand route and the "sac artifact: Draw" ability as well.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Making a Scarecrow deck...
    Lorwyn and Morningtide changelings and Mistform Ultimus are colored scarecrows, among other things. Adaptive Automaton can be a scarecrow lord. Master of Etherium can also help since most scarecrows are artifact creatures.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [SCD] Bane Alley Broker
    Quote from Evenoire
    Actually you still can. The only reason you exile them face down is so that it is still unknow to your opponents WHAT exactly you exiled.

    To clarify this, here is the link. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=482521&highlight=broker

    So basically, no, you cannot.
    Posted in: BW Tokens
  • posted a message on [Deck] BG/x Aggro "Evolggro"
    Quote from megatog201
    Would the 3 color aggro version run farseek? It's not an aggro card, but smooths the mana base nicely. Or abundent growth? That at least only costs 1, so slows you down a lot less while also smoothing you out. Idk. Thoughts?

    I tried out abundant growths. They just were getting in the way of tempo. I found that I rarely wanted to play them early since early dropping creatures was more necessary, and later on when I needed them, I wouldn't have the mana to cast all that I needed for explosiveness. I do like the card, and I do use it heavily in other decks, but I don't think it is an aggro card. I would never farseek if I could play lol troll or strangleroot, and this deck desperately needs to hit one of those two drops early.

    I can see someone trying out a more mid-ranged focused evolve list using farseek, mana bloom maybe, and abundant growths to smooth out mana, but that is an entirely different deck.

    Edit: To be fair, my interest in this deck isn't really here. I have been more focused on other decks (a Sphere of Safety prison deck, and a naya collective blessing-keyrunes deck). I was just testing some evolve creatures to see how they play out to help me better evaluate them. My non-investment in this deck may be producing a bias and I don't want to lead anyone on, spouting my first impressions as word of law. I played an extremely sub-optimal list in only a handful of games. Grains of salt should be taken by all.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [GTC] Gatecrash MWS Patch (122/249)
    I would also second the notion that going picture-less is fine. I just want to thank you a bunch for the swift updates! It is much appreciated!
    Posted in: Third Party Products
  • posted a message on [Single Card Discussion] Five-Alarm Fire
    Quote from dudebro
    Another wasted card by playing it to safe... Had it cost RR it might find a home in rdw. R2 and maybe viable for some sort of token variation who knows. Would also of been huge had the wording been when a creature deals damage instead.

    Huge is probably an understatement. If it triggered on any creature-sourced damage, then Hellrider would be FAF's best friend.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] BG/x Aggro "Evolggro"
    Are you coming to these conclusions without the gildmage? My testing shows he is the heart of the deck. You don't run out of gas and late game "bad topdecks" are good all of a sudden.

    I have not tested the guildmage actually. I suppose it was a huge oversight on my part. However, I still have doubts as to its need here as an aggro deck. I feel like the guildmage belongs in a different sort of deck.

    A more important strike against the guildmage here, though, is that the mana base is still an issue, and I do not think the guildmage is worth running a higher amount of blue on its own. GU,GG,andGB for two drops is pretty much impossibly unreliable, only possible through overuse of shocklands (if that) which causes the match-up between any aggro deck to become an uphill battle with you shooting yourself in the foot periodically. Even if blue is just splashed and the guildmage is meant to be played later as a draw engine so as to not interrupt the explosiveness of Strangleroot Geist or the looming threat of Lotleth Troll, the guildmage still requires a heavy blue commitment (actually, a heavy color commitment in general) which this deck cannot provide reliably, not in its current form at least.

    I imagine the Zameck Guildmage would work better in a more midrangy build, sacrificing power for a greedier mana base and cards to help make it consistent (farseeks, possibly mana blooms, abundant growths, etc). That build probably likes Thragtusk, too.

    Though I suppose more testing is required. More testing is always a good thing.

    You may be right, Biomass is a hit or miss, I might just remove that too to be truthful, but plays well with the smaller creatures that are played since late game we could make them all 4/4's at instant speed. (arbor Elf, ExpOne ect.)

    I was curious as to the applications that Wolfir Silverheart may have in the deck as a two-of. Perhaps that is what you want instead of the Mutations. Gives a use to the little guys in the later game while not shrinking the big guys. Plus, it's not useless on its own as a top-deck, and is a creature to pitch to Lotleth in desperation. Besides, Mutation would probably have to be cast for 6 to be worth it most of the time anyway. I'd try that out if you're sticking with that basic skeleton there.

    Another idea I was looking into were applications of Unleash cards here. I have not tested them, but they may or may not be useful here. Rakdos Cackler is another aggressive one drop for B if necessary. I was also considering thinning out some color requirements with Thrill-Kill Assassin, a card I like but is not necessarily good enough here or elsewhere. Also probably not good enough is the idea of using Young Wolf as another one-drop for G this time, lessening a burden of the need for B turn one should Cackler prove to have its uses. That was all pure idea generation without any testing here.

    Of note: Unleashed Cackler does help evolve Experiment One, meaning T1 Experiment, T2 Cackler, Rancor is a viable option.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] BG/x Aggro "Evolggro"
    I screwed around on MWS a bit to test a few hands of a few different lists to see how the cards interacted. Here are my thoughts:

    Frankly, the blue creatures are not as explosive as the green or black creatures, and a splash of blue seems unnecessary.

    I found Crab-limb Shark awkward here as neither Lol Troll or the Ghastly Strangler triggered its evolve, and playing it after turn two was usually outclassed by opponent's plays.

    My initial thoughts with play testing Cloudfin Raptors were nightmarish. Getting the open blue mana turn one either forced me to take a bunch of shockland damage with the mana base, or neglect the black side of the deck. Not only that, but it was only good in the opening hand, or when I had a Corpsejack Menace. Other than those problems, it also never triggered the other evolvers and was a horrible topdeck time and time again.

    I did like Corpsejack Menace in the deck. Those two counters matter a lot for evolvers and sometimes Strangleroot. Playing a second Menace was even funnier, even if that only happened once. However, I think we may need a few more good on-curve Evolvers for Corpsejack to be worth its slot, honestly.

    I think the deck would have been fine staying three colors with more evolvers if the creatures did not have the oddest combinations of creature types. Cavern of Souls does not help fix color at all here. (If only the krasises were mutants!)

    Sticking to mainly GB is the way to go. Blue splashes are probably unneeded unless a good 3 drop evolver comes around requiring it. The three spot really needs a good evolve creature. Curving into Corpsejack is hugely powerful, but the options available are lackluster.

    (For the record though, Crocanura > Elusive Krasis, but neither are aggressive enough for an aggro approach.)

    Experiment One is awesome. It really is synonymous with Champion of the Parish in this build, though a slower version since the explosiveness comes from a four drop (Menace) rather than a two drop (Gather the Townsfolk). Other than explosiveness factor, though, they really feel and play similarly, at least in the opening turns.

    Gyre Sage is not that aggressive without Corpsejack, and its mana ability is pretty useless since it can't fix colors.

    Biomass Mutation is interesting, but I don't think we have enough creature production to matter. Not to mention, the creatures we use are often larger than the mana we can pump into Mutation.

    Those were my thoughts on some of the possible interactions of the deck. If there are good evolvers in the set yet to come, I think we may be able to produce the shell of a viable deck (well, variant). Otherwise, I am not sure that this is any better than the Kiblar's list just yet.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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