I honestly have no idea how you all are winning vs any red deck w/ treasure cruise playing tons of mana dorks. You say the deck is good because of its speed? There is no sped when all your opponents will be able to interact by turn 2 which slows the deck down by at least another 2-3 turns.
Things I've noticed:
Can't beat 2x taxing counters on the draw vs a turn 1 delver.
Can't beat any red deck without carytid.
Woo's strategy is gamed toward winning those scenarios. This deck wont ever be good as long as those are problematic circumstances.
I am actually interested in how the following scenario plays out at a tournament.
Player A: I presented my deck to player B and he shuffled meticulously, I then drew a land. The odds of me drawing a land there were 10%. THis then happened again when the odds were 8%. He used the same technique.
Player B: I didn't see any cards while shuffling the deck.
Are you trying to argue that because we (as the camera) cannot see that jared sees what card the bottom card is (latter shuffled to the top), that we cannot directly incriminate him as to knowing the bottom/top card and thereby cheating? This is completely reasonable.
What is unreasonable is that you are equating are line of sight to that of jared's. Peripheral vision captures more light than the camera by its nature, but even more so, jared is viewing the library from a completely different angel. Some physics guy could easily tell us from the video what angels and height the bottom card could be viewed from. From my experience shuffling, I know I could have seen cards while mashing, obtaining said card, moving it to the bottom, and later putting it on top from any of those videos. We're not even considering the fact that jared doesn't have to directly learn the bottom card from his shuffling. Opponents all the time while fetching turn enough of their deck towards me for me to know whats on bottom and consequently jared could learn that info through glances while the opponent is shuffling and therefore not have to put that burden on himself.
I think the "hidden" zones is actually vastly superior to both V3 and prior V4. most of the time, I don't care whats in my yard. If my deck is all about it, sure I have to click -1- button to have it shown. IMO this helps me focus and pay much more attention to what cards are actually in my yard instead of what I perceived prior.
lightning helix is the best way to beat burn. If you are having trouble against twin/delver play spellskite in multiples. Transformational sideboard is not where you want to be in a combo deck where your opponent is boarding in more cheap interaction to kill your guys and counter your spells.
The way I see it, there are two entirely different ways to go about combo-ing.
In the traditional, mainstream build (12 dorks, 6 wisps), you hope to run your opponent out of removal and if they don't have it, your raw speed will be able to circumvent opposing gameplans. I think this is very strong for a game 1 plan.
In something without noble and with considerably less ways to "net" mana (combo w/ 2 dorks, cerulean wisps) fatestitcher is a consistent way to generate enough mana (even through path) mid combo. FYI, loot through deck, eventually you discard fatestitcher and are abel to unearth him for virtually 0 mana. If your opponent has a path, you can hopefully stockpile enough spells on the stack to net the mana needed to finish the game.
I'm up to 2 games where I wanted a flesh/blood, so perhaps it's time to cut the izzet staticaster. He is really dumb vs infect, which is a tight, tight matchup and very good against the traditional build of ascendancy combo. Additionally, he can double as a wincondition should your fatesticher be inaccessible(scavenging ooze, relic of prog.)
In response to the question regarding utopia sprawl, I will quote a very fundamental idea from the dredge thread. "Dredge loses most when it fails to dredge." Looking at the deck, what is our version of "dredging?" I believe the deck at its fundamentals is casting cantrips to find missing combo pieces. If you are skipping this step (you had them both in the opener) you are simply running above average. If you wanted to simply this more, it comes down to casting spells. Though, casting 1x per turn is a sure way to lose. Utopia sprawl serves this niche role of being an unkillable mana source that can also help combo through being a non-creature spell and sometimes helping you finish a game faster with fatestitcher.
A game of magic, in general, comes down to three things: Whose spells are "better", Who uses there spells "better" and who casts more spells.
That's how I feel about my list in particular. I also have never wanted to wish for fiery temper.
OH, cutting the muderous cut. Strictly worse than slaughter pact (which is definitely a card everyone has overlooked)
My lost to junk involved me being unable to find a 2nd ascendancy after cantrips and triple cruise. I died on turn 4 to affinity both games after getting flooded on wishes.
I think I need a 5th big spell in the main and I'm looking to cut a glittering wish. I'd like to hear some arguments against this blasphemy. Oh, and I still didn't want noble and having them would've fizzled me on two occasions. MVP right now is utopia sprawl.
Izzet charm is bad against those decks, so as long as the other cards do more, it's going to be net beneficial.
Mage typically on decay, but you could name pod/linvala/chord reasonably vs pod. Dryad arbor is important vs lily as your carytid cannot afford to die.
Mage on decay is the best way to not have a dead card such as silence vs these decks. Reactive spells like simic charm or faith's sheild simply aren't good. All in all, the best way to beat decya is to hold ascendancy until you can cast at least 2 instant speed cantrips while your ascendancy is getting decay'd from your 1st sorcery cantrip, generating enough value.
Congrats, ktkenshinx, you have unravelled the supermega topsecret tech (although, to be fair, actually running it was a whimsical idea at best).
Also, it's worth to note that Surgical and Extirpate can only remove cards already in the yard. That means, you've probably already cast the first Wish. That probably means you've already gotten what you need from the side (by my observations it's usually the Ascendancy, or directly the kill spell if you already have an Ascendancy), so that means you are most likely winning and don't need more Wishes. That said, I don't play the deck myself (although for the past week I've played over 20 games against it, at least they are fairly quick) and feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.
Since Glittering Wish exiles itself when resolved, any Wishes in the yard had to be discarded, countered, or milled. This means that your day already wasn't starting off well, so Extractions will start sealing the deal.
Noble hierarch is bad. 9 dorks are the only good dorks... why play bad cards?
Linvala is fine if you have simic charm. Gut shot helps out of the board.
I also like having 2 izzet charm 2 wear tear for eidolon/canonist
I'm personally more comfortable outright killing Linvala (post-board games tend to go on longer for me), but to each their own.
Also, how often does Gut Shot slow Pod down enough that Simic Charm can actually be used on Linvala instead of some random beater? (When I tested trying to protect my combo from Jund's Abrupt Decay with Simic Charm from the Wishboard, I ended up burning the Charm on their Goyf or Bob too often.)
I don't ever have problems with goyf/bob decks. I dont bring it in. Instead, I board in my meddling mage and dryad arbor, taking out izzet charms.
Noble hierarch is bad. 9 dorks are the only good dorks... why play bad cards?
Linvala is fine if you have simic charm. Gut shot helps out of the board.
I also like having 2 izzet charm 2 wear tear for eidolon/canonist
Never had a problem beating graveyard hate. I would love my opponents to bring that in as it means they aren't going to present a clock. I think we're over thinking the fact that scours #1 role is to "draw a card."
Been testing for the last 2 days rigorously.
Here's my current list:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
3 Cerulean Wisps
4 Glittering Wish
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
3 Mana Confluence
3 Windswept Heath
4 Manamorphose
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Treasure Cruise
3 Thought Scour
2 Izzet Charm
1 Fatestitcher
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Island
SB: 3 Gut Shot
SB: 1 Jeskai Ascendancy
SB: 1 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Guttural Response
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Scarscale Ritual
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Silence
SB: 1 Dryad Arbor
SB: 1 Simic Charm
Cards that I have under close examination are cerulean wisps and manamorphose. with fatestitcher in the main, it's essentially impossible to fizzle through lack of mana. The first izzet charm is outstanding, but I can very easily see 3 being too many. I don't miss noble at all and I think that card is detrimental more often than not. I'll answer any questions for those who have them, but I feel that this is getting close to the optimal 75, +/- 7 cards.
I have tested the following in the main:
Noble, ideas unbound, dryad arbor, temple garden, crimson wisps
And the following in the sb:
Island (moved to main), flesh/blood (excessive)
Cards I would be interested to see how well they do:
2nd fatestitcher, 2nd gutteral, lightning helix, peek, quicken, simian spirit guide.
Things I've noticed:
Can't beat 2x taxing counters on the draw vs a turn 1 delver.
Can't beat any red deck without carytid.
Woo's strategy is gamed toward winning those scenarios. This deck wont ever be good as long as those are problematic circumstances.
Player A: I presented my deck to player B and he shuffled meticulously, I then drew a land. The odds of me drawing a land there were 10%. THis then happened again when the odds were 8%. He used the same technique.
Player B: I didn't see any cards while shuffling the deck.
Judge: ????????
Are you trying to argue that because we (as the camera) cannot see that jared sees what card the bottom card is (latter shuffled to the top), that we cannot directly incriminate him as to knowing the bottom/top card and thereby cheating? This is completely reasonable.
What is unreasonable is that you are equating are line of sight to that of jared's. Peripheral vision captures more light than the camera by its nature, but even more so, jared is viewing the library from a completely different angel. Some physics guy could easily tell us from the video what angels and height the bottom card could be viewed from. From my experience shuffling, I know I could have seen cards while mashing, obtaining said card, moving it to the bottom, and later putting it on top from any of those videos. We're not even considering the fact that jared doesn't have to directly learn the bottom card from his shuffling. Opponents all the time while fetching turn enough of their deck towards me for me to know whats on bottom and consequently jared could learn that info through glances while the opponent is shuffling and therefore not have to put that burden on himself.
In the traditional, mainstream build (12 dorks, 6 wisps), you hope to run your opponent out of removal and if they don't have it, your raw speed will be able to circumvent opposing gameplans. I think this is very strong for a game 1 plan.
In something without noble and with considerably less ways to "net" mana (combo w/ 2 dorks, cerulean wisps) fatestitcher is a consistent way to generate enough mana (even through path) mid combo. FYI, loot through deck, eventually you discard fatestitcher and are abel to unearth him for virtually 0 mana. If your opponent has a path, you can hopefully stockpile enough spells on the stack to net the mana needed to finish the game.
I'm up to 2 games where I wanted a flesh/blood, so perhaps it's time to cut the izzet staticaster. He is really dumb vs infect, which is a tight, tight matchup and very good against the traditional build of ascendancy combo. Additionally, he can double as a wincondition should your fatesticher be inaccessible(scavenging ooze, relic of prog.)
In response to the question regarding utopia sprawl, I will quote a very fundamental idea from the dredge thread. "Dredge loses most when it fails to dredge." Looking at the deck, what is our version of "dredging?" I believe the deck at its fundamentals is casting cantrips to find missing combo pieces. If you are skipping this step (you had them both in the opener) you are simply running above average. If you wanted to simply this more, it comes down to casting spells. Though, casting 1x per turn is a sure way to lose. Utopia sprawl serves this niche role of being an unkillable mana source that can also help combo through being a non-creature spell and sometimes helping you finish a game faster with fatestitcher.
A game of magic, in general, comes down to three things: Whose spells are "better", Who uses there spells "better" and who casts more spells.
That's how I feel about my list in particular. I also have never wanted to wish for fiery temper.
OH, cutting the muderous cut. Strictly worse than slaughter pact (which is definitely a card everyone has overlooked)
This was my list:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Cerulean Wisps
4 Glittering Wish
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
2 Mana Confluence
3 Windswept Heath
4 Manamorphose
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Treasure Cruise
3 Thought Scour
2 Izzet Charm
1 Fatestitcher
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Island
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Utopia Sprawl
SB: 1 Gut Shot
SB: 1 Jeskai Ascendancy
SB: 1 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Guttural Response
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Scarscale Ritual
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Silence
SB: 1 Dryad Arbor
SB: 1 Simic Charm
SB: 2 Lightning Helix
SB: 1 Murderous Cut
My lost to junk involved me being unable to find a 2nd ascendancy after cantrips and triple cruise. I died on turn 4 to affinity both games after getting flooded on wishes.
I think I need a 5th big spell in the main and I'm looking to cut a glittering wish. I'd like to hear some arguments against this blasphemy. Oh, and I still didn't want noble and having them would've fizzled me on two occasions. MVP right now is utopia sprawl.
Mage typically on decay, but you could name pod/linvala/chord reasonably vs pod. Dryad arbor is important vs lily as your carytid cannot afford to die.
Mage on decay is the best way to not have a dead card such as silence vs these decks. Reactive spells like simic charm or faith's sheild simply aren't good. All in all, the best way to beat decya is to hold ascendancy until you can cast at least 2 instant speed cantrips while your ascendancy is getting decay'd from your 1st sorcery cantrip, generating enough value.
I don't ever have problems with goyf/bob decks. I dont bring it in. Instead, I board in my meddling mage and dryad arbor, taking out izzet charms.
Linvala is fine if you have simic charm. Gut shot helps out of the board.
I also like having 2 izzet charm 2 wear tear for eidolon/canonist
Here's my current list:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
3 Cerulean Wisps
4 Glittering Wish
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
3 Mana Confluence
3 Windswept Heath
4 Manamorphose
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Treasure Cruise
3 Thought Scour
2 Izzet Charm
1 Fatestitcher
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Island
SB: 3 Gut Shot
SB: 1 Jeskai Ascendancy
SB: 1 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Guttural Response
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Scarscale Ritual
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Silence
SB: 1 Dryad Arbor
SB: 1 Simic Charm
Cards that I have under close examination are cerulean wisps and manamorphose. with fatestitcher in the main, it's essentially impossible to fizzle through lack of mana. The first izzet charm is outstanding, but I can very easily see 3 being too many. I don't miss noble at all and I think that card is detrimental more often than not. I'll answer any questions for those who have them, but I feel that this is getting close to the optimal 75, +/- 7 cards.
I have tested the following in the main:
Noble, ideas unbound, dryad arbor, temple garden, crimson wisps
And the following in the sb:
Island (moved to main), flesh/blood (excessive)
Cards I would be interested to see how well they do:
2nd fatestitcher, 2nd gutteral, lightning helix, peek, quicken, simian spirit guide.