Any decrease in professional, high EV play impacts all players because the value of Magic singles is tied to professional Magic's existence. Without competitive tournaments with high value prizes, the high volume of constructed, high dollar cards getting sold plummets. If those constructed cards lose value, then the product as a whole loses value. So a casual player having no interest in competitive Magic is going to have a hard time justifying dropping $100 on a box when the average return is $30 or less.
Casual players who think that hurting pro play on any level doesn't risk hurting all players are delusional. If professional play becomes unviable then people will lose a lot of money on their collections.
No. Those casual players aren't all in to the EV of their return on a box. They bought innistrad for flavor and art, not for a playset of Avacyn or whatever the mythic monster of this set is. They buy boxes all the time for fun, collecting and just to crack packs. Casuals are who buy most of the fuel decks, intro packs, deck master'so toolkit, etc. Not people looking at EV. You can see them every week in the store looking for xyz jank rare for their pet Thallid deck. Magic has never needed the PT to thrive or survive, and those invested in the PT and chasing the dream of it still don't get that.
Magic and the PT aren't going anywhere. The next PT isn't going to cancel because PVDDR is sitting it out to pout. It will move along fine. I guarantee it. There's still money to be won in a game people love playing. The PT scene on the money train just thought they were invaluable when in fact they're entirely expendable and someone at WotC/Hasbro realized it.
I'm telling you this based off of looking at other games. The fighting game tournaments don't have to pay pros to show up. The pros get sponsors who help them travel, but equipment, etc. and the Pro players in those tourney's stay pro by doing one thing: winning. Not just showing up, winning. The Pro Tour may have different names in the next year, but it'll still be as popular as ever. Your average grinder might whine on Twitter and stand in solidarity, but when he/she has a chance at winning a PT/GP, guess what? They'll be one of the first to register.
What happened has nothing to do with judges. It has to do with their new CEO, I'd wager. He probably looked at that setup and said "Hold on. No one else is doing this. Why are we doing this? We're paying them $3000 to then take our prize money? No. They can get their own sponsors for that."
Meh, whatever. Magic's "pro" scene was just a bunch of pretentious elitists anyways. I am all about that aspect of the game dying. Besides, in a pay to win game such as this, the pros don't need more money to play with. They already have it.
It is not like this change effects most players in any way, shape, or form anyways.
This is a classic example of bizarro-logic where the wider world is some distant thing that doesn't affect an individual.
In this case, the protour *does* have an effect on the grassroots level of the game. The protour is something fans of the game talk about (kind of like how a keen football enthusiast will play once a week with some friends but also follow the professional game). It also filters down to the everyman player due to the qualifier events and urge to improve their play and be more competitive.
If FNM was the be-all and end-all of magic, the game would get weird. There wouldn't be a metagame to speak of, nothing would encourage people to be better at the game than mildly decent (let's face it, it's not hard to win an FNM once in a while) and it all comes from the top. Pros and the protour are the pinnacle that people aspire to, those are the players who show what's really possible in terms of expert play and strategy. Without that top-down influence, magic becomes a more fragmented, casual affair with less mass-appeal and no ability to form a big-stage high-visibility event like other games and e-sports have. It will recede into "that nerdy game for casuals" rather than "that nerdy game that actually has a decent pro circuit and deserves some respect for that"
Don't get me wrong, there are some issues with the protour. It's not perfect. But I think their decision this week was off the mark. It may have been made with good intentions, but i strongly believe they have the wrong kind of analysts putting together the proposals on this kind of thing. I would *love* to have a proper meeting with their decision makers and establish just what their train of thought was. I'm willing to bet there was some kind of consumer insight they were missing.
This is so off-base. Casual magic is what keeps magic alive. It always has been. Not the pro tour. Looks like the pros just got reminded of that. And a lot of pro fans. Magic doesn't need the tour for legitimacy. They have their 20+ years of thriving and being here to legitimize them. The pt could pay 10k to everyone in top 8 at every event and it would still be nerdy. LoL and Dota pay Millions to winning teams. Still nerdy as ever in the general public's eye.
It feels like a lot of "pro's" were getting to platinum status so they could just cash in on the huge "appearance" fees verse actually competing as a pro (meaning; you go to every GP/PT).
I feel like this line is the what is confusing a lot of people:
The appearance fees we awarded for Platinum pros were meant to assist in maintaining the professional Magic player’s lifestyle
I take this to mean, that fees given to platinum pro's are meant to help a pro continue to travel and participate in EVERY event, to be able to test and prepare for events, which should lead to a corresponding performance befitting a "pro." My guess is that too many people rushed to platinum, to obtain the $3000 fee and not continually acting as a pro.
Living as a pro means that you are a professional MTG player. Not a full-time teacher who happens to play MTG during weekends, or a part-time whatever who plays MTG. As an analogy, in sports, pro athletes receive a salary to support the pro athlete lifestyle, which means they can concentrate on their craft instead of working another job. Obviously, there is a ton more money in pro sports than in MTG, but the concept is the same.
Except, don't a lot of them have "real" jobs? Isn't LSV with some company doing game design? Isn't Finkel in stocks/investments? Is it Saito, I believe, who owns a game store. I'd bet most magic pros actually have real-life jobs, not just magic.
WotC shouldn't be paying pros, IMO, to play. If you qualified and you want to play you foot the bill and build your legacy on your own. I think they should increase the payouts for lower placings (32-64/128) to actually help those players attend more events.
I'm curious about other games. Does LoL pay teams to play? Does SMITE or Dota? Does Capcom foot the bill for Daigo or Tokido to play on the CPT? Is NRS paying Sonic Fox? I'm honestly curious if any other game is run this way. I haven't heard of one, but I've never even thought about it before. Magic needs to move to outside sponsors being actual sponsors and not them paying people to take their money. Guys playing with SCG and CFB shirts need to get money from their sponsor to chase the cup. Not WotC.
Avalon hill is known for strategy board games... Lone Shark does lots of role playing cards games... The overall atmosphere is pretty creepy and I have no idea what "Project Riboflavin" is supposed to mean...
It's likely a creepy and atmospheric strategy game, likely with a board. The only sad part is that I can already see this going the same way as all WOTC games that aren't Magic and D&D.
Riboflavin is vitamin B. Not sure how that fits. Blood maybe? Vampires? Who owns V:TES now?
In real magic, if you have access to 6 mana, you probably don't want cantripping creatures.
In competitive Magic, you mean. Casual tabletop Magic is "real" Magic to players who enjoy it.
"" for truth. As deathsjester said, the silent majority of magic players aren't FNM/SCG/PT players. They're filthy casuals and we're proud of it.
@flaminginfinity
Cutting edge efficiency where? I play that card in more than 1 commander deck and it's a HOUSE. Between it and a few others it gives mono-g some serious draw. It's expensive mana wise but you have to realize it's like delver in that it rewards you for doing what your color wants to do anyway. Green plays dudes. It makes each creature have a rider of "and draw a card". Mm, mmmm, mmm. Tasty.
Magic outside of standard IS still real magic, btw.
Edit: putting that effect on a two drop would warp every format of magic outside vintage into oblivion.
I had a friend that ran that deck. He still does. But when he does I break out my old friend Anafanza and her army of absolute hate bears, with all the black in the world to tutor for them and their exiling spell friends. Few things feel better than absolutely shutting down graveyard shenanigan decks. Green, white, black and a 3 Cmc General that hates on the effect gives you so many ways to make their lives hell.
Honestly, at least the way the UR is going, it seems like it's a way to wrap up the Ugin/Kozilek plotline while leaving room for them to come back later.
I think part of why they're getting so soundly defeated is everyone realized that building them up into giant threats was dumb and problematic. Magic already has a real problem with having too many apocalyptic threats. Having three more that couldn't ever be stopped was not just incredibly cliche for the setting, but didn't offer any meaningful way to advance any of the given stories.
The Eldrazi aren't characters; they're a natural disaster. Not having a viewpoint character die to a natural disaster isn't a problem.
Your last bit really made me see things a bit differently. You're right. And Magic players are the zendikari. They've changed Ulamog and Kozilek into Ula and Cosi. They've forgotten what they are and have attached their own lore/wants/feelings on to them. Damn. Well played, WotC.
Decks built around Partial Paris most likely won't be effective under Vancouver. This is to be expected. I believe Vancouver encourages decks built along traditional deck-building values. You shouldn't be able to run a low count of any effect and bank on it being in your opening seven. I've been thriving on playing against decks that made deck-building decisions around the powers of Partial Paris. In the new world order, they're woefully unreliable. It's going to take time for the community at large to build decks that run consistently and effectively under Vancouver. I don't think anyone can argue that many decks are no longer playable with the transition from Partial Paris to Vancouver, but I do think there's a strong argument that said decks should never have been playable in the first place.
That last line hits the nail on the head.
Partial Paris was a huge enabler and a real problem. For decks relying on a single combo it was similar to 2-3 extra tutors before a card has ever been played. And you could run a greedy, greedy mana base while looking through your top 17-20 cards for what you wanted/needed.
I think it's a good change and have only seen more competitive games the past few weeks. PP, especially with the first free, was a no-brainer. Now I'm seeing a lot more hesitancy after the first free to 7, and even sometimes for that first 7. This exact convo came up last Sunday in one of my usual groups as I had to debate hard on a mulligan in a 5-color deck. In the past it would have been a snap pp to find more reliable mana.
I have an old Alienware m15x laptop. The AC adapter died just before the warranty ran out and dell sent me a new one with much lower specs. Also, the battery died, and it only runs on the adapter. Is it possible for the machine to run slow and lag in games due to insufficient power? I only ask because when I use the adapter for my m17x that works, it does run much better. Before I buy a new battery and adapter I just want to make sure my rudimentary test and conclusion could be correct.
As to why I'm wondering: I'm trying to let my son use the m15x to play swtor with me. It lags horribly on lowest settings with the 65w adapter(choppy, choppy gameplay. Almost like it's not even using the nvidia card). Runs fine up to high settings with the 150w adapter.
I realize it seems like I've answered my own question but I thought I'd ask someone who may know for sure if this is a possible cause before I shell out 100$ for an adapter and new battery.
It's not a terrible card, just needs the right build, like the Omnath/Titania mentioned above. I actually like playing obscure old cards with huge amounts of text so points for that. Also the art is great.
My favorite variations of counterspell are all 6 mana, and Time Stop might be the top. It's also absolutely number 1 on the list of really expensive pieces of cardboard I wish I owned by route of the tenth edition foil version that has no reminder text, only the words "End the turn."
Also, if I'm reading that right and random card of the day is moving to a completely different thread, you played Time Stop on this thread.
I knew about the flavor on the foil(weren't there a couple cards in tenth like this?). I had no idea on the price. Never would have guessed. Wow. I need to start buying splashy foils of EDH playables in every set. Edh leads to some crazy price jumps.
No. Those casual players aren't all in to the EV of their return on a box. They bought innistrad for flavor and art, not for a playset of Avacyn or whatever the mythic monster of this set is. They buy boxes all the time for fun, collecting and just to crack packs. Casuals are who buy most of the fuel decks, intro packs, deck master'so toolkit, etc. Not people looking at EV. You can see them every week in the store looking for xyz jank rare for their pet Thallid deck. Magic has never needed the PT to thrive or survive, and those invested in the PT and chasing the dream of it still don't get that.
Magic and the PT aren't going anywhere. The next PT isn't going to cancel because PVDDR is sitting it out to pout. It will move along fine. I guarantee it. There's still money to be won in a game people love playing. The PT scene on the money train just thought they were invaluable when in fact they're entirely expendable and someone at WotC/Hasbro realized it.
I'm telling you this based off of looking at other games. The fighting game tournaments don't have to pay pros to show up. The pros get sponsors who help them travel, but equipment, etc. and the Pro players in those tourney's stay pro by doing one thing: winning. Not just showing up, winning. The Pro Tour may have different names in the next year, but it'll still be as popular as ever. Your average grinder might whine on Twitter and stand in solidarity, but when he/she has a chance at winning a PT/GP, guess what? They'll be one of the first to register.
What happened has nothing to do with judges. It has to do with their new CEO, I'd wager. He probably looked at that setup and said "Hold on. No one else is doing this. Why are we doing this? We're paying them $3000 to then take our prize money? No. They can get their own sponsors for that."
This is so off-base. Casual magic is what keeps magic alive. It always has been. Not the pro tour. Looks like the pros just got reminded of that. And a lot of pro fans. Magic doesn't need the tour for legitimacy. They have their 20+ years of thriving and being here to legitimize them. The pt could pay 10k to everyone in top 8 at every event and it would still be nerdy. LoL and Dota pay Millions to winning teams. Still nerdy as ever in the general public's eye.
Except, don't a lot of them have "real" jobs? Isn't LSV with some company doing game design? Isn't Finkel in stocks/investments? Is it Saito, I believe, who owns a game store. I'd bet most magic pros actually have real-life jobs, not just magic.
WotC shouldn't be paying pros, IMO, to play. If you qualified and you want to play you foot the bill and build your legacy on your own. I think they should increase the payouts for lower placings (32-64/128) to actually help those players attend more events.
I'm curious about other games. Does LoL pay teams to play? Does SMITE or Dota? Does Capcom foot the bill for Daigo or Tokido to play on the CPT? Is NRS paying Sonic Fox? I'm honestly curious if any other game is run this way. I haven't heard of one, but I've never even thought about it before. Magic needs to move to outside sponsors being actual sponsors and not them paying people to take their money. Guys playing with SCG and CFB shirts need to get money from their sponsor to chase the cup. Not WotC.
Riboflavin is vitamin B. Not sure how that fits. Blood maybe? Vampires? Who owns V:TES now?
"" for truth. As deathsjester said, the silent majority of magic players aren't FNM/SCG/PT players. They're filthy casuals and we're proud of it.
@flaminginfinity
Cutting edge efficiency where? I play that card in more than 1 commander deck and it's a HOUSE. Between it and a few others it gives mono-g some serious draw. It's expensive mana wise but you have to realize it's like delver in that it rewards you for doing what your color wants to do anyway. Green plays dudes. It makes each creature have a rider of "and draw a card". Mm, mmmm, mmm. Tasty.
Magic outside of standard IS still real magic, btw.
Edit: putting that effect on a two drop would warp every format of magic outside vintage into oblivion.
Probably "an ass kicking for Sorin turning her into Avacyn."
Your last bit really made me see things a bit differently. You're right. And Magic players are the zendikari. They've changed Ulamog and Kozilek into Ula and Cosi. They've forgotten what they are and have attached their own lore/wants/feelings on to them. Damn. Well played, WotC.
That last line hits the nail on the head.
Partial Paris was a huge enabler and a real problem. For decks relying on a single combo it was similar to 2-3 extra tutors before a card has ever been played. And you could run a greedy, greedy mana base while looking through your top 17-20 cards for what you wanted/needed.
I think it's a good change and have only seen more competitive games the past few weeks. PP, especially with the first free, was a no-brainer. Now I'm seeing a lot more hesitancy after the first free to 7, and even sometimes for that first 7. This exact convo came up last Sunday in one of my usual groups as I had to debate hard on a mulligan in a 5-color deck. In the past it would have been a snap pp to find more reliable mana.
I have an old Alienware m15x laptop. The AC adapter died just before the warranty ran out and dell sent me a new one with much lower specs. Also, the battery died, and it only runs on the adapter. Is it possible for the machine to run slow and lag in games due to insufficient power? I only ask because when I use the adapter for my m17x that works, it does run much better. Before I buy a new battery and adapter I just want to make sure my rudimentary test and conclusion could be correct.
As to why I'm wondering: I'm trying to let my son use the m15x to play swtor with me. It lags horribly on lowest settings with the 65w adapter(choppy, choppy gameplay. Almost like it's not even using the nvidia card). Runs fine up to high settings with the 150w adapter.
I realize it seems like I've answered my own question but I thought I'd ask someone who may know for sure if this is a possible cause before I shell out 100$ for an adapter and new battery.
Thanks!
Do I really need to add /sarcasm?
I knew about the flavor on the foil(weren't there a couple cards in tenth like this?). I had no idea on the price. Never would have guessed. Wow. I need to start buying splashy foils of EDH playables in every set. Edh leads to some crazy price jumps.