MTG Salvation

If your deck artificially narrows metagame diversity, you'll take a ban. If that line sounded like something a politician would say, it's probably because it set off your BS meter. So if in six months, Twin starts performing like its a rocket, get ready for your ban.

Is that honestly a format people are happy with? A format where people become scared to play they best deck because if it reaches a certain threshold of wins/metagame saturation, you take a ban?

I'm out. I can just not care about Modern, but there were a bunch of players out there who did care, and are now more skittish to invest heavily or invest at all.

Quote from Sam I am »

This format doesn't ban Jace, stoneforge, or jitte so It's going to be completely dominated by stoneblade

It also doesn't ban deathrite or BBE, so It will be completely dominated by jund

It also doesn't ban glimpse of nature, or GSZ so it will be completely dominated by elves

It also doesn't ban GSZ or birthing pod, so it will be completely dominated by pod.

It also doesn't ban top, so It will be completely dominated by countertop

It also only restricts dread return, so it will be completely dominated by dredge.

It also only restricts Dark Depths, so it will be completely dominated by dark depths.

It also only restricts blazing shoal, so it will be completely dominated by infect.

It also doesn't ban cloudpost, so it will be completely dominated by 12 post.

It also doesn't ban artifact lands, so it will be completely dominated by affinity

It also doesn't ban ponder or preordain, so it will be completely dominated by delver and storm

This sounds like a format. Turn on some death metal, and let us fight to the death in the arena like our ancestors have done in days of old.
I'm in.

Quote from Valanarch »

Quote from ElAzar »

Quote from Poster X »

1 you didn't see him NOT look at the bottom card. Every other action he took was consistent with actions that would be taken if you knew what the card was and wanted to cheat.

I think its this kind of argument why it was called a witchhunt.

"no your honor, i didnt see her perform witchcraft, but i also didnt see her not perform witchcraft, and yet the cattle went ill and the corn was rotten on the field, so there is evidence enough, isn´t it?

I was one of the people who was looking at the videos, and yes, it was obvious that he did shuffle in an unusual way, but i believe some people do thinks like that as a lucky charm. For a clear proof of cheating, you have to proof he know what the card was, and i couldn´t find that proof in the videos. But maybe we just have a diffrent opinion what evidence means.

The whole point never was if he was a cheater or not, but if there is real evidence enough to be sure.
And that hasn´t changed, despite the outcome. That people seem to think they "won" because he might be a cheater, dosnt mean they won, because if he is a cheater or not wasn´t the point.

Boettcher turned me into a newt!

But you got better? He still received his deserved punishment for his ban according to the DCI after their investigation. I'd would have liked to see their evidence, since they had access to a body of evidence; much more than we do in a few video links.

The art has been on the decline for a while. Magic art has evolved with the game's direction over the years. I do miss the more exotic and flamboyant art from the past.

@Monkey222: Treasure Cruise.

Yeah, this whole thing kinda sucks. Sending EBgames customer support an email or something could be helpful.

As cool as the ultimate is, the rest of the card is sub-par.

Ante seems like a funny, fun, degenerate concept I'd love to get my friends suckered into.....I mean convinced into playing. But it would have be with cheap broken diversion decks and a drinking game.

Prismatic seems brutal.

Wizards has a love-hate relationship with card draw permanents that can lower variance, so lands like Horizon Canopy in a cycle might be taboo for Standard. Unless they printed them into an eternal legal product only, which would be swell

Only place worse than the epicenter of Homulilly might be in the eye of Kriemhild Gretchen. Either way, both of those locations have larger problems than Ebola if you know the reference

Ebola is a terrifying disease but the misinformation and scare campaign in the media doesn't help anyone in my opinion.

Quote from Richard Arschmann »

The art was so much stranger in the 2000s. Lorwyn and Kamigawa both have completely bizarre creatures that are unlike anything you'd see in a fantasy game. I don't think MTG should return to that, necessarily.

I disagree. Older Magic art where no one knew what was happening by Drew Tucker, Amy Weber etc emphasized the game's origines and basis around DnD. Bizarre at least has some character, and less generic is never bad.

Obligatory link.

It's worth pointing out that the concept of counterspells being unfun to play against is by no means universal. I actually learned how to play when playing against mono-blue permission, and to this day, I still have the most fun in those tight battles of wits.

I also strongly disagree with something like Mana Leak ruining standard. What happened however is that WotC used focus groups and learned that the most common reaction was that something countered did "nothing" whereas a creature killed was "answered". This illusion of non-interaction verses interaction became the the guiding principle for modern design.

@Mondu: I remember those decks. The Mirage-Tempest Type2 Mono-Blue was sweet.

Quote from urweak »

So gravity is just a theory too? Technically?

Yes, but you're clearly missing my point if you really think I believe that. My point was technicalities in science don't always reflect the reality of public perception.

For instance, the CDC does have a patent on an Ebola strain. Conspiracy theorists and idiots postulate from this technically true fact that the US invented Ebola. The reality is that they had to for researchers to be able to have access to the virus without paying royalties.

Quote from urweak »

Aka, when all else fails, make up a completely random statistic to support your argument.

Okay, so I used Australia's Health Department website which was actually talking about measles risks in the vaccine section (I'm not an immunologist so I didn't know the figures offhand). So lets start again and I'll cite this time. The 'brain damage' issue you're talking about is probably coming from the risk of Febrile Seizure, which is 8 out of 10,000. The number varies whether it's the MMRV or the MMR vaccine, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, that's the higher statistic. Febrile Seizures aren't dangerous when it's a short seizures, and 95% of the time children will not experience serious side effects. It's the other 3-5%, who are already predisposed to febrile seizures who may have a problem. That what they mean by 'brain damage', the vaccine is linked to a slightly higher rate of febrile seizures, but for children with a family history the vaccine is contraindicated anyway.

The car accident statistic came from here, where is shows that about 1 in 10,000 people are killed in car accidents annually.

Quote from urweak »

Why are you rambling about autism? I never once said anything about that, nor did Paul. Maybe he is talking about something similar to this womens case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ztiAN9k584 Are you just looking for an argument to push your agenda? Because you sunk your teeth in there really quick and starting going on about autism.

Lol, you mean this woman? Edit: I should not here I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at the stupid scam this lady was trying to pull, and the audacity she had to go on the news. It's amazing how quickly people will buy into scams. I mean, things like that are heartbreaking and scary, but it's amazing to me that people will give 'truthy' stories like that the benefit of the doubt, but not medical science.

Seriously though, the reason I'm saying autism is because it's the only 'mental disorder' that has ever been linked to vaccines in any kind of serious way, although the major study was later determined to be fraudulent.

Also, to be fair here, you should know that I actually work in public health. I'm not just a random guy spouting rhetoric here.

Quote from urweak »

There have been cases of out breaks within communities with vaccinated children. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions that it's because of a greater number of unvaccinated children. Vaccines aren't 100% effect, but with herd immunity, they don't need to be.

This isn't really true either, as the concept of herd immunity applies to random samplings, but people don't actually randomly distribute themselves in real life. This article explains it for the lay person to understand.

Quote from urweak »

My whole point is that Paul and the CDC seem to agree. Yet because he is a politician it's easier to go after him then it is the CDC. Even more so when he is lumped in with a nut job like Christie.

I don't care that Paul is a politician, I care that he's a doctor who made stupid and misrepresentative comments. Christie I could forgive because he doesn't know what the hell he's talking bout, but Paul should know better.

Quote from urweak »

Also, to put into perspective Rand Paul's comment. Here is what his father said back in 2008.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f74xvtRijMc

See, Ron Paul's comments are a perfect example of the common mistake people make. We've forgotten how dangerous these diseases are, so unless you have personal experience (like Paul's Polio comment), you don't even recognize them as a threat anymore.

But that's kind of like not wearing your seat belt because you've never been in a car accident, because it's uncomfortable and if you do get in a car accident it might bruise you. Before you think this is hyperbolic, I've had people actually say those words to me.

Quote from Valanarch »

I'd rather ban Legacy. Why should Modern be a format defined by not being Legacy? The format should have its own identity, not the identity of "ban everything that is good in Legacy".

Wasn't that exactly what their main criteria was when they made the ban list for PT Philadelphia?

In Modern's defense, it really does have a different identity compared to Legacy. It bans cards four times a year, while Legacy does so once every four years, metaphorically speaking.

Comment Hidden

Quote from necrogenesis »

Quote from Rampart »

Here is my List that I played in the tournament http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=76126
...
If anyone has any question let me know I can try to answer them or if you want more of a detailed play by play for a match I should be able to do that too.

Congrats on such a solid pair of finishes! I plan to play a list similar to yours this Saturday and wonder if you have any more detailed advice on the following match-ups?
Miracles
Death and Taxes
Reanimator
Elves
Painter's Servant
Merfolk

The major differences in our lists are: with all the creature decks, I decided to run 4 P. Fire Main, cutting down to 3 Rotations. I also have 3 DD main and Karakas in the side. Any advice? Again congrats!

Thats a lot. I try to get you some of my thoughts as I have free time.

Miracles

Things to note:
1. You are not the control deck.
2. You are slightly un-favored
3. Don’t walk your K-Grips into a counterbalance trigger
4. V Clique: it’s a strange card in the lands matchup. A good land’s player can play around this card but it Clique can snipe a loam and tuck it. Play around it if you can’t

What “lands” is trying to do:
1. Establish Life from the Loam if possible, if Life is locked out prepare for the long game. (same thing for punishing fire)
2. Use thespian stages and ports to keep Miracles off of white mana
3. Use wastelands to on tundra’s and karakas only unless you can snipe a fetchland.
4. Generate a Lage token when the miracles player cannot produce white mana and attack for the win.

Out – punishing fire, Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, Manabond
In- Krosan Grip, extra dark depths, Primeval Titan and/or Oracles of Mul Daya, COTV

What Miracles wants to do:
1. Establish a SDT/Counterbalance lock – Don’t bother with trying to counter a K-Grip, it’s very easy to play around.
2. Be very shrewd with your fetchland usage. Lands want’s to cut you off white don’t make it easier for them.
3. Jace is your primary win condition. Establish one quickly and start ticking it up. If the lands player has loam then fateseal yourself
4. Your secondary win condition is Entreat. It’s pretty easy to resolve this for 3-4 angels and win; if there is an option for this I would press it. Keep an angel back for Lage if you fear the avatar.

Death and Taxes

Things to Note:
1. You are the control deck
2. You are slightly favored
3. A good D&T pilot is a scary thing
4. They can interact with every aspect of your game
5. Watch out for Cataclysm

What lands is trying to do:
1. Establish Punishing Fire ASPA if possible,
2. Keep them off everything but basic lands and stick a tabernacle to keep the creature count low and manageable
3. Maze of Ith is king here, extra stages can become Maze’s
4. Don’t rely on the power of a Lage token as they can easy interact with it

Out – Manabond, Bog, Shave 1 other card options are Crop R, Wasteland, Gamble etc.
In- Krosan Grip,

What D&T is trying to do:
1. Protect or stop the punishing fire interaction, by wasting Groves or pressing RIP or establishing MOM
2. Use Ports to shut down Maze of Ith
3. Protect your stuff with Flickerwisp or to blink out Glacial Chasm/maze of ith to push the rest of the damage in
4. SoFI is really good,
5. Cataclysm can wreck them if timed correctly

Reanimator

Things to note:
1. You are the control deck.
2. You are slightly unfavored/favored depending on build setup.

What lands is trying to do:
1. You either have a combo hand or a control hand, play to what your hand allows.

a. If you are on a combo hand they only way to deal with a Lage Token is either Tidespout Tyrant or Ashen Rider. They usually only have one or the other

b. If you have a control hand the first step should be to prevent them from comboing this is done with Bog. If they do combo the next step should be preventing them from attacking you. If they gain life from Griselbrand the game is functionally over, Maze of Ith, Chasm and Karakas are good at shutting this down

2. If you have something that is not a combo hand or a Control hand mulligan till you get one of those.
3. Don’t forget that you can Maze of Ith your own Lage token to create a blocker if you are in a racing position or need to block Inkwell Leviathan
3. Sideboarding is kind of tricky, On the play I like spheres on the draw I don’t. They usually have pithing needle in the board but I am not sure that sideboaring Grip is what you want to do.

In: COTV, Titan, Needle, Maybe Sphere, Maybe Grip in game three? Bog and Karakas if in your board
Out: P-Fire, Shave some number of Waste/Port/Loam or Gamble depending on your configuration

What Reanimator is trying to do.
1. Their game plan doesn’t change, cheat fatty into play. They have better threats after sideboard.
2. Focus on bringing out Griselbrand first to enable a complete lock after that with the card drawing next focus on Tyrant and Inkwell as they are back breaking
3. If you have leylines bring them in. Pithing needle is a great answer to Karakas, Maze and T-Stage
4. The Goal is the clear the way with Thoughtseize turn one and reanimate a monster on turn two and protect it or pile on.
5. Fetch around getting blown out by wasteland by focusing on basics

Elves

Things to note:
1. You are the control deck.
2. You are favored if you have an early Punishing Fire

What lands is trying to do:
1. Suppress there board state. To do this you need to prioritize punishing Fire there creatures down and waste/quater all the lands you can. If you can’t you forced into racing.
2. They can’t interact with the combo so if you feel safe taking it do such. Lage Token can absorb a lot of damage off Creatorhoof.
3. While tabernacle is good but it’s not as back breaking if you don’t have a wasteland for the cradle.
4. They may have a main deck Scooze and will certainly have one after board. Play around it if you can.

In: COTV, maybe sphere on the play
Out: I shave for this matchup, I cut a gamble, Maze, and a Manabond usually

What Elves is trying to do.
1. An early NO for Progenitus is very difficult for them to race as they can’t interact with the card.
2. Scooze is very good at breaking up Loam, focus on getting high value lands like Glacial Chasm and Tabernacle if you can
3. Glimpse Combo is a very good path, You can overwhelm there board state, drop your entire deck into play which they can’t race with. If they try to establish a Chasm lock you can break it up with several Deathrite’s just make sure to discard a couple creatures so that you can eat them to gain life in case they attack you with a Lage token on their next turn

Painters

Things to note:
1. You are the control deck.
2. You probably going to die as you are unfavored

What lands is trying to do:
1. Game one you are all in on the combo. An early blood moon wins and an early grind wins so all you can do is race as you cannot interact in any other way. If you play to play control game one you will need to get luck to pull off the victory.
2. Games 2 and 3 are different. You get to have an option to interact with Grips, COTV and needle. Prioritize getting a forest and using stage to copy the forest. This allows for you to play primetime if you brought him in.
3. Save your K-Grips for when you actually need them. Only use it to kill a blood moon or painter servant if you need to.
4. Goblin Welder is a scary magic card which can do a lot, try to keep it off the board

In: Grip, COTV, Needle
Out: Chasm, Tabernacle, Mazes, some number of P-Fire

What Painter is trying to do.
1. Blood Moon
2. Blood Moon
3. Protect yourself from the Lage token if you can with Bridge
4. Establish RIP if you can.
5. If painter is landed Pyroblast the Forest
6. Revoker should name Mox Diamond
7. Blood Moon

Merfolk

Things to note:
1. You are the control deck.
2. You are favored

What lands is trying to do:
1. Goldfish them if you can. If they have an aether vial set to two there is a good chance that they can copy your Lage Token with Phantasmal Image or bounce your creature with Vapor Snag.
2. Punishing Fire is very good against them if they cannot get a lot of lords in play.
3. Maze of Ith is very good as they can pretty much hold off the army with copies of Maze via Stage. Tabernacle is also very good
4. If the Folk deck is not running wasteland it is very easy for you to establish a Glaical Chasm Lock as well.

In: Needle, Choke
Out: Wasteland, Manabond

What Merfolk is trying to do:
1. Counter if you can Gamble or Crop Rotation
2. TNN is your best creature in the matchup being able to stick one or two or copy one will allow you race or put a real clock on
3. If you have back to basics in the board it can be game breaking
4. Don’t try to get a loam with relic but get as many lands as possible or get key lands like tabernacle or chasm

Hope that Helps and good luck this weekend

I'll elaborate more later, but for now my matches were:

Round 1: Imperial Painter 2-1
Round 2: Sneak and Show 2-1
Round 3: Goblins 2-1
Round 4: Sneak and Show 0-2
Round 5: Miracles 1-1-1
Round 6: U/W/R Delver 2-0
Round 7: U/W/R Delver 2-1
Round 8: Bantblade 2-0

Top 8:
ANT - 0-2

With painter and 2x Sneak and Show in my first 4 games, I'm pretty happy I made it as far as I did.

Quote from TheOnlyOne652089 »

Well extended was cool as it was urza block.

Later on however, it simply turned into standard again, as simply the best decks of the blocks battled it out, which is no fun at all.

Extended got its big shake up with mirrodin again and then it just died as they shifted the format and without urza block extended was simply dead and bad.

This. When extended went back to Tempest and Saga, it was a good chunk of the game's history. It was like half way between playing eternal and playing Standard. As time went on, two things happened.

1. As the cool, old cards rotetaed out, many extended players moved into the newly branded Legacy format.
2. Extended became a much smaller percent of the games history. Rather than half way between Standard and Eternal, it was just Standard plus a little. Not the idea that made it popular. To make a new format half way between Standard and Eternal, we now need a card pool going back roughly ten years. Enter Modern.

Mythic rarity was created so players would have to buy more packs to get the playsets they want/need. All the other reasons are just excuses and rationalizations.

I notice that people are speaking about bans for Treasure Cruise. I would like to say this and only this - If Treasure Cruise is the most powerful Modern legal card, we have hit a golden age for Modern Magic.

Treasure Cruise can only be run as a 4-of in a minuscule amount of decks. It helps increase the power of blue, that is anti synergistic with Blue's most powerful card; Snapcaster Mage. The card cannot be abused in multiples; have you seen an opening hand with 2 Treasure Cruise? In fact, if you had 30+ cards in your graveyards and chaining multiple cruises wins you the game, a Sphinx's Revelation would have done the same thing. It's sorcery speed, it also requires Threshold to be able to cast for a cheap cost, and in order to make that cost more consistent, you are paying it in the form of life/degenerate cards/cards in board states. Then, comes the obvious factor of it's terrible weakness to other blue decks running Remand, and multiple decks running graveyard hate.

I am terribly unconvinced that Treasure Cruise is worth banning in the format, I just find the card on the same power-level as Birthing Pod.

What we should be doing, is asking for the unbanning of Bloodbraid Elf and Golgari Grave-Troll. Blue finally has a spell that can match up to a resolved Liliana of the Veil.