What about Hound Tamer? I don't think I've seen anyone mention it, but a 3/3 Trample for 2G is a solid body, and after you tack on the 3G activated ability to put +1/+1 counters on stuff (a theme in my green section at least), I'd consider it as just that. But you also have the werewolf flipside to sweeten the deal.
I'm really happy to see the Sphinx Summoner downshift. I was always trying to make Dimir Tezzerator a thing before I decided to go Peasant and had to gut the support for it. I still think blue has some great artifact support cards in common and uncommon though, and it wouldn't be too difficult to create a subtheme where I could see Sphinx Summoner playing a key role.
For me, every time I look at my green section for a cut lately I keep stopping on Regrowth and/or Yavimaya Elder; I always find something else to get rid of instead, but I'm beginning to think I might just be saving them for reasons of nostalgia. I'm not sure if these were Pauper/Peasant staples, but I remember when they were cube staples, so they probably qualify. Don't get me wrong. They're both still good... maybe just not as good, and powerful new cards are being printed all the time that I need to find room for.
Edit: I just noticed that this thread is very similar to the "Overly Romanticized Cards of the Past" thread, and Yavimaya Elder was discussed over there as well. I guess I'm not the only one feeling it only seems to shine in super grindy matches.
Interesting. I guess I didn't consider that the top end threats aren't as game-ending in peasant; maybe that's the check on the archetype I was looking for to reassure me that adding it wouldn't be too strong. So from a cursory glace at your list, you basically recommend running all the lowest cmc reanimation spells? You don't like Life // Death, Unburial Rites, Dread Return, or Makeshift Mannequin?
Over the past six months I down-shifted my unpowered, rare cube to peasant+ (commons and uncommons with a few rare duals that don't CIPT) because my playgroup and I were getting sick of how pushed and generally unfun some of the broken rares and mythics were getting. When I did so I made a point to avoid cards like Sol Ring, Skullclamp, Channel, Mana Drain, etc... because they are just too overpowered to exist within an uncommon environment IMO (heck, I didn't run them in my rare cube for the same reasons). Innitially I avoided Reanimate, Animate Dead, etc... for the same reason; most people (and the people in my playgroup in particular) don't enjoy basically losing the game on turn 2 (sometimes their turn 1) when the opponent cheats a 7cmc threat into play. So my question is to those of you with experience in this archetype...
Is Reanimator too broken for peasant?
Of course, I understand that everything is relative and a matter of personal preference, but I'm asking this in the same context I might ask is is Sol Ring too broken for peasant. Beyond this innitial question might I ask if it's certain reanimation spells in particular (the 1 and 2 cmc spells mentioned above for instance) that are the problem or just the whole archetype? Would just running 4+ cmc stuff like Dread Return, Zombify, Makeshift Mannequin, Diabolic Servitude, Unburial Rites, Extract from Darkness, etc.. be viable, or at that point is it not worth doing? Additionally, are their certain safety-valves (hate-cards that should or support cards that should not be included with Reanimator) I can build in to limit the brokenness if I include the cheaper reanimation spells?
I enjoy a variety of different archetypes in my cube, and Reanimator seems like it comes from such a different direction than most things in peasant that it might be fun to have as a "combo" option for those so inclined; I just don't want it to become a problem or the best thing to be doing.
Hello everyone. I'm pretty new to peasant, so I'd love to get your opinion on Patron of the Valiant compared to other white 5cmc creatures in a 720 card cube. I never knew this card existed until Jump-Start, but I guess it's been around since Origins; still, I don't see it in other people's lists. I support +1/+1 counters and flyers in white, and it seems like a pretty solid body (4/4 flyer for 5cmc). Am I missing something about this card, or is it reasonable to try to find room for it. Forgive me if this group has already been discussed; I didn't see it anywhere in the last 15ish pages.
Here are my current white 5s; what would be the cut (if there is one)?
On an unrelated note I appreciated the discussion on the previous page regarding Scaled Behemoth, Plated Crusher, and Warden of the Woods. I like the crocodile and the treefolk personally because 6cmc in green seems easier to hit and break into in peasant than 7cmc - which seems abundant with good ramp bombs. I could be wrong though; maybe all three belong at 720.
Yeah, but unlike Shrine, it's definitely not guaranteed to connect. It also doesn't have the evasion that Errant Ephemeron does, though I think the ability to top-deck and cycle it as well as the repeatable effect and larger creature does make up for the lack of flying.
Idk, I guess it's kind of a subjective thing, but I prefer Krosan Tusker over Shefet Monitor for that type of effect/option (land and draw or big body), as cycling 4 seems much more than cycling 3.
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On a completely separate note, I just want to emphasize that for the "cycling archetype" to be a thing it would likely have to fit into a 2-color pair and have the vast majority of it's cards be good enough or almost good enough on their own. Take Drannith Stinger for example. It's a good playoff within the "cycling" deck, but if that first ability is blank text (which it would be outside of that archetype), then a Grizzly Bears with cycling 1 isn't something I want in my deck. Maybe if my red aggro deck is really short on 2s... maybe... but that's just a sign that my deck is in a bad place. Drannith Healer is the same situation. Outside of the cycling deck it's borderline unplayable. I don't want it in my white weenie aggro deck. I don't want it in my life-gain deck. I probably just don't want it period. Something like Valiant Rescuer is a little better, as the vanilla 3/1 body with cycling 2 is more appealing than the 2/2 for aggro, but you still don't want that guy in a tokens deck unless you are at least half into the cycling archetype.
And those are the cards that at least do "something" outside of their specific archetype. Others like Astral Slide are great payoffs, but stone-cold-blanks in anything other than cycling.
Archetypes like this are always tricky to include, since they often become parasitic on your cube. You need to find the right number of these payoff type cards to make it worth it but not so many that all you can do in... say... red and/or white is draft cycling on rails. I'd say include a tiny sprinkling of the most powerful cycling payoffs and as many Boon of the Wish-Giver and Neutralize type cards as possible.
There might not be a particular green cycling payoff signpost card like Astral Slide or Lightning Rift, but there are green cards with cycling that are probably good enough or borderline good enough on their own. I also think cycling big green monsters and reanimating them or using other GY synergies most commonly found in the Golgari colors is a sort of "payoff" strategy that has been used for years.
Hello fellow Assault/Loam players. I took a little break from Modern back in August after Looting got banned; by the looks of the forum activity, apparently I wasn't the only one. Anyway, with a little down-time on my hands my mind has returned to my long-time pet deck, and I've been trying to brew up a list for the current metagame (which I notice has changed a ton). Hopefully some of you guys are still around to discuss some new ideas.
@PurpleBlood, Mulch is a cool card that I played years ago, and it can definitely provide CA in a land-heavy deck and is a great way to continue to get lands to use for Assault if something happens to your GY. That said, I remember I switched away from it because paying 2cmc to do something that has no effect on the board on turn 2 (or at any point really) can mean death in some of the faster Modern MUs. It may be good again in the right deck though, Idk. For the record however, while I love the Rebecca Guy art from SH, we have Winding Way now, and it's a strict upgrade, so you should probably be running that.
Also, in regard to the rest of your list, did you end up testing it? Because I'm one hundred percent certain that thirteen colorless lands and one black-only producing land aren't going to allow a deck with RRRSeismic Assault to function.
@suckmyfoot,
Like I said, I've been away for quite awhile, so I don't really know what people have tested or not, but the main Theros: Beyond Death card that stood out to me is Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger. I see many of the Jund decks have begun to incorporate 1-3 copies - shifting a bit more towards the Rakdos colors in the process. Still, I think, in theory at least, the Jund versions of our deck would be better set-up to utilize it as a 1-of, since we're better at filling the yard with food for it, and since our mana-bases have been running Seismic Assault and Raven's Crime in the same deck for years, we probably wouldn't have to do much in terms of alterations.
Honestly though, I'm still playing around with some of the new toys we got from MH1 and WAR. While losing Looting definitely hurt, it definitely opened up a few more slots for brewing.
Wow! This thread isn't very active anymore. I haven't payed much attention to Modern in the last six months or so, and I notice the metagame has changed quite a bit with bannings and new printings. Although I'm not a Jund player (my pet deck has long been Assault/Loam), I figure the two decks have a ton in common nowadays with Wrenn and Six. Anyway, I was hoping my friends here on the Jund forum could answer an all-important question for me.
What do I mean by this? Well, if you had say six slots would you split it 4-2 in one direction or the other or just go 3-3?
Also, what really needs killing? I notice a bunch of newish cards like Emrys, Urzas, Ice-Fang Coatls, Uros, as well as all the rest of the usual suspects: Death's Shadows, Primeval Titans, Goblin Guides and co., three different U/W planeswalkers, Jund creatures, Humans, Eldrazi, etc... Obviously, neither Bolt or Push are great against some of these.
For what it's worth, I notice Reid Duke opted for 4 Bolt, 2 Push in his latest video (a list I think he said he said Willy Edel used to top-8 a challenge). Maybe that configuration was specific to his list though, Idk.
I haven't seen you guys mention three Golgari cards that I would think are great for this archetype: Acolyte of Affliction, Golgari Findbroker, and Baloth Null. Why not? They seem like slam-dunks for any grindy, graveyard value deck, and even though Findbroker's mana cost is fairly restrictive, green decks are often the most equipped to pull this off.
You both make some good points, but Excavating Anurid has always been great for me in Pauper. I often prefer it over Entourage of Trest because Monarch can be a liability against some decks.
As I mentioned, the context of what else is in your deck, and at what point in the game it is, matters. Obviously, you don't power this out via a mana elf on turn 4, sac your fourth land (especially if it's the last one you have, and go down to just three when you have other 5-drops to play, and when you likely don't have Threshold yet. Anurid isn't really a MGA kind of card; I guess it could be your curve topper, where trading in the fifth land that you weren't going to use anymore is real card advantage, but even then it seems unlikely that you're taking advantage of the bonus +1/+1 and Vigilance that Threshold provides - at least immediately. That said, it wasn't that long ago that people were playing Kavu Climber and such, and Anurid is likely better than those even without the bonuses.
Where Excavating Anurid really shines imo is in a midrange - or even control - deck. There it serves as sort of curve topper that comes in, draws you a real card in exchange for a superfluous land, can swing in for 5 damage to end the game quickly, all while playing defense at the same time because of Vigilance. Cards like Satyr Wayfinder, Winding Way, removal, and instants and sorceries in general - anything that goes to the yard really - go well with it. Note also that it is very spashable.
Edit: I just noticed that this thread is very similar to the "Overly Romanticized Cards of the Past" thread, and Yavimaya Elder was discussed over there as well. I guess I'm not the only one feeling it only seems to shine in super grindy matches.
Is Reanimator too broken for peasant?
Of course, I understand that everything is relative and a matter of personal preference, but I'm asking this in the same context I might ask is is Sol Ring too broken for peasant. Beyond this innitial question might I ask if it's certain reanimation spells in particular (the 1 and 2 cmc spells mentioned above for instance) that are the problem or just the whole archetype? Would just running 4+ cmc stuff like Dread Return, Zombify, Makeshift Mannequin, Diabolic Servitude, Unburial Rites, Extract from Darkness, etc.. be viable, or at that point is it not worth doing? Additionally, are their certain safety-valves (hate-cards that should or support cards that should not be included with Reanimator) I can build in to limit the brokenness if I include the cheaper reanimation spells?
I enjoy a variety of different archetypes in my cube, and Reanimator seems like it comes from such a different direction than most things in peasant that it might be fun to have as a "combo" option for those so inclined; I just don't want it to become a problem or the best thing to be doing.
Here are my current white 5s; what would be the cut (if there is one)?
Cloudgoat Ranger (Not cutting this)
Elite Scaleguard
Syr Alin, the Lion's Claw
Belfry Spirit (I support tokens and blink as well as flyers)
Serra Angel
Oketra's Attendant
Totem-Guide Hartebeest (This is kind of a pet card and enchantment support, so I'm probably keeping this one)
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On an unrelated note I appreciated the discussion on the previous page regarding Scaled Behemoth, Plated Crusher, and Warden of the Woods. I like the crocodile and the treefolk personally because 6cmc in green seems easier to hit and break into in peasant than 7cmc - which seems abundant with good ramp bombs. I could be wrong though; maybe all three belong at 720.
---------------------------------
On a completely separate note, I just want to emphasize that for the "cycling archetype" to be a thing it would likely have to fit into a 2-color pair and have the vast majority of it's cards be good enough or almost good enough on their own. Take Drannith Stinger for example. It's a good playoff within the "cycling" deck, but if that first ability is blank text (which it would be outside of that archetype), then a Grizzly Bears with cycling 1 isn't something I want in my deck. Maybe if my red aggro deck is really short on 2s... maybe... but that's just a sign that my deck is in a bad place. Drannith Healer is the same situation. Outside of the cycling deck it's borderline unplayable. I don't want it in my white weenie aggro deck. I don't want it in my life-gain deck. I probably just don't want it period. Something like Valiant Rescuer is a little better, as the vanilla 3/1 body with cycling 2 is more appealing than the 2/2 for aggro, but you still don't want that guy in a tokens deck unless you are at least half into the cycling archetype.
And those are the cards that at least do "something" outside of their specific archetype. Others like Astral Slide are great payoffs, but stone-cold-blanks in anything other than cycling.
Archetypes like this are always tricky to include, since they often become parasitic on your cube. You need to find the right number of these payoff type cards to make it worth it but not so many that all you can do in... say... red and/or white is draft cycling on rails. I'd say include a tiny sprinkling of the most powerful cycling payoffs and as many Boon of the Wish-Giver and Neutralize type cards as possible.
Dissenter's Deliverance (maybe)
Edge of Autumn
Greater Sandwurm
Krosan Tusker
Migration Path
Rampaging Hippo (maybe)
Shefet Monitor (maybe)
Titanoth Rex
Wild Dogs (maybe)
and of course the lands which every color has access to
Tranquil Thicket (for green specifically)
Ash Barrens
@PurpleBlood,
Mulch is a cool card that I played years ago, and it can definitely provide CA in a land-heavy deck and is a great way to continue to get lands to use for Assault if something happens to your GY. That said, I remember I switched away from it because paying 2cmc to do something that has no effect on the board on turn 2 (or at any point really) can mean death in some of the faster Modern MUs. It may be good again in the right deck though, Idk. For the record however, while I love the Rebecca Guy art from SH, we have Winding Way now, and it's a strict upgrade, so you should probably be running that.
Also, in regard to the rest of your list, did you end up testing it? Because I'm one hundred percent certain that thirteen colorless lands and one black-only producing land aren't going to allow a deck with RRR Seismic Assault to function.
@suckmyfoot,
Like I said, I've been away for quite awhile, so I don't really know what people have tested or not, but the main Theros: Beyond Death card that stood out to me is Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger. I see many of the Jund decks have begun to incorporate 1-3 copies - shifting a bit more towards the Rakdos colors in the process. Still, I think, in theory at least, the Jund versions of our deck would be better set-up to utilize it as a 1-of, since we're better at filling the yard with food for it, and since our mana-bases have been running Seismic Assault and Raven's Crime in the same deck for years, we probably wouldn't have to do much in terms of alterations.
Honestly though, I'm still playing around with some of the new toys we got from MH1 and WAR. While losing Looting definitely hurt, it definitely opened up a few more slots for brewing.
Is Modern currently a Lightning Bolt or a Fatal Push format?
What do I mean by this? Well, if you had say six slots would you split it 4-2 in one direction or the other or just go 3-3?
Also, what really needs killing? I notice a bunch of newish cards like Emrys, Urzas, Ice-Fang Coatls, Uros, as well as all the rest of the usual suspects: Death's Shadows, Primeval Titans, Goblin Guides and co., three different U/W planeswalkers, Jund creatures, Humans, Eldrazi, etc... Obviously, neither Bolt or Push are great against some of these.
For what it's worth, I notice Reid Duke opted for 4 Bolt, 2 Push in his latest video (a list I think he said he said Willy Edel used to top-8 a challenge). Maybe that configuration was specific to his list though, Idk.
Here's the link: https://www.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/videos/modern-jund-standard-reid-duke/
You both make some good points, but Excavating Anurid has always been great for me in Pauper. I often prefer it over Entourage of Trest because Monarch can be a liability against some decks.
As I mentioned, the context of what else is in your deck, and at what point in the game it is, matters. Obviously, you don't power this out via a mana elf on turn 4, sac your fourth land (especially if it's the last one you have, and go down to just three when you have other 5-drops to play, and when you likely don't have Threshold yet. Anurid isn't really a MGA kind of card; I guess it could be your curve topper, where trading in the fifth land that you weren't going to use anymore is real card advantage, but even then it seems unlikely that you're taking advantage of the bonus +1/+1 and Vigilance that Threshold provides - at least immediately. That said, it wasn't that long ago that people were playing Kavu Climber and such, and Anurid is likely better than those even without the bonuses.
Where Excavating Anurid really shines imo is in a midrange - or even control - deck. There it serves as sort of curve topper that comes in, draws you a real card in exchange for a superfluous land, can swing in for 5 damage to end the game quickly, all while playing defense at the same time because of Vigilance. Cards like Satyr Wayfinder, Winding Way, removal, and instants and sorceries in general - anything that goes to the yard really - go well with it. Note also that it is very spashable.
To each his own though.