I'm back looking at and brewing in Modern again after a year-and-a-half hiatus, and of course I'm back with my old favorite.
Upon doing a little research, I found that some people apparently are still working on this archetype. Here's a great video of Youtuber d00mwake playing a red green list in a Modern league a few months ago (12/26/2021). While the list is certainly not super tuned (the sideboard in particular looked like it could use some changes), it seemed pretty solid. He managed a 3-2 finish with a deck that he didn't build and was somewhat unfamiliar with. He also had some bad luck as far as match-ups; the follower who sent him the list apparently had several 5-0s with it, so there's definitely potential.
One thing that seemed well worth adding would be a Fire-Lit Thicket or two in the mana-base. d00mwake ran into color fixing issues a couple of times, and I can say from long experience with this deck - it's a land you really want.
Also, you know you have issues with your board when you consistently don't side anything in. He mentioned wanting better graveyard hate, and the Return to Natures he did bring in a couple of times seemed underwhelming; I get that it's a flexible card, but as a result of that it's not the best at dealing with the problems you really want it to deal with.
So if you Ninjutsu it in and it deals damage to a player, then that turn it's just a draw rather than a loot, which would be the case for all future turns. The cheaper Ninjutsu and far more reasonable casting cost to body ratio is quite nice, but then again, how often were you actually casting Ninja of the Deep Hours? Additionally, after you get in once and draw your card with Ninja of the Deep Hours, you're likely not getting in again unless you can pick it up and Ninjutsu it again off of a flyer or unblockable creature, so... this kind of leads me to believe that this Moon-Circuit Hacker will be just as good if not better.
Since most of the best Snow cards are green and blue, it definitely could be called a Simic "archetype." However, I feel it doesn't have as strong of an identity as the archetypes in many of the other two-color combinations because most of the Snow cards seem to be good enough on their own (assuming you're allowing Snow basics).
Basically, I'd divide the Snow cards into four categories:
Unfortunately, only the latter two categories really "make" a Snow archetype imo; the previous two are support. Too bad Narfi, Betrayer King isn't a Simic card.
The "opponents can't gain life" aspect of Sulfuric Vortex is as critical as the consistent two damage a turn. This has neither, in that it can miss, and, as mentioned, is two colors. I agree that the creature aspect of Klothys isn't going to happen in cube, and I think the ability to add mana by exiling lands is unlikely as well. Exiling specific stuff from the GY is definitely useful however. Also, is it just me, or does dealing two damage (to an opponent) and gaining two life seem more like an Orzhov thing than Gruul?
Interesting card, but I don't think it's for my cube.
Nantuko Cultivator and these new two (Ruination Rioter and Ore-Scale Guardian) are all cool cards to have in Modern and great to have in a set that almost seems designed around the Assault/Loam theme, but I'm not sure they're powerful enough - even as role-players. Maybe if the deck was radically redesigned... maybe Rioter could be a part of a super aggro shell, Idk.
On a completely separate note, a couple of times now I've seen people either suggesting or putting four Stomping Grounds in lists. You definitely don't want to do this unless you have a really good reason for it. Sure, it's probably the best R/G dual available, but it's also very painful - especially in multiples. To be honest, a pure R/G version of this deck should probably be running two, and three-color versions should probably run one of each shock (maybe two Stomping Grounds). That's plenty to get with all the fetches. Look at some other decks in the format that have some top 8 lists posted on MTGTOP8, MTGDECKs.net, or MTGGOLDFISH. You'll see all the U/W Control lists run two Hallowed Fountains; all the G/B Rock lists run two Overgrown Tombs. The Izzet Phoenix lists do seem to run three Steam Vents, but they're also only running 17-18 lands total. The only deck running a full play-set of shocks (Stomping Ground in this case) is TitanShift, and they're obviously doing so because of the Mountains-matter theme associated with Valakut.
Vengeful Pharaoh, Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, Gilt-Leaf Winnower are some other underrated black 5-drop creatures that I'd run over this. But hey... this card certainly isn't embarrassing, so if this fits a theme that you're trying to bolster in your cube, give it a try.
Amonkhet Cards that I've proxied up and that we are trying out in my 700 card unpowered cube:
WWhiteW: Glory-Bound Initiate - this seemed automatic, particularly since I'm trying to push life-gain. Gideon of the Trials - as a 3cmc Planeswalker, this looks like a strong card. The only thing I'm worried about is pushing the number of Gideons over the limit.
UBlueU: Censor - a strong roll-player that we're all looking forward to. Who doesn't like Force Spike and Daze? Curator of Mysteries - I want this guy to be good, but it was probably one of the last in, and I'm worried that given time it could find its way out.
BBlackB: Never - a welcome addition to check the power-creep of planeswalkers. Liliana, Death's Majesty - one of the cards I'm most excited about, and hopefully, something that will encourage more people to play black.
RRedR: Soul-Scar Mage - a worse version of a somewhat marginal card, but a role-player for archetypes like spells-matter, burn, and tokens that we're trying to bolster. I honestly would not be surprised if it (and Monastery Swiftspear) either found it's way out in time or slowly rose in the ranks of red's 1-drops as the color shifted its focus. Bloodrage Brawler - controversial, but highly anticipated amongst my play-group. Sweltering Suns - there's never much buzz around slight upgrades, but they shouldn't be neglected. Glorybringer - people seem to be sleeping on this here, perhaps because it was spoiled so early. Still, both Stormbreath Dragon and Flametongue Kavu always get picked reasonably highly in my playgroup.
GGreenG: Channeler Initiate - another roll-player, but one that may be best suited for cubes that want higher creature counts and that want to play g/x and g/x/x colored decks. We're happy to give it a try. Rhonas the Indomitable - from the initial feedback, an early candidate for best Amonkhet card for cube. Vizier of the Menagerie - although most testing results posted here seem to be somewhat negative, those results appear to come from powered cubes with lower creature counts. Like with Channeler Initiate, my cube supports creatures-matter (Domri Rade, Collected Company, Duskwatch Recruiter, etc...) as a g/x or g/x/x colored archetype that wants a Future Sight creature.
For a grand total of eighteen potential new cards from this set - granted five are lands. Excluding Kaladesh, this would be the most since Dragons of Tarkir for us if everything stays.
Cards that didn't quite make it but that I'll definitely be watching to see how others who are testing them like them: Angel of Sanctions - I love Fiend Hunters. Harsh Mentor - I hope this can get there, as it's SOOOOO much more interesting than some of my red 2-drops. However, I'm worried that it will just be a bear most of the time, particularly because my activated, non-mana abilities count was a lower percentage than some of the smaller, powered cube lists of others who posted their data.
@Dr.Tom
I love Sagu Mauler (and its compatriot Simic Sky Swallower) because it's a great ramp target (Simic's primary archetype imo), a good reanimator target, a good Natural Order target, a good Oath target, etc... It's a shame you decided to cut it for the new Nissa - though I understand (and agree with) the decision to keep Trygon Predator. Normally I'm not a huge fan of that card in an unpowered environment, but your cube still has a lot of powerful mana-rocks, equipment, and otherwise nasty artifacts, so it makes sense. The only thing I will say, and I know this wasn't an option, is why not cut a Simic planeswalker for a Simic planeswalker? Kiora, Master of the Depths for Nissa, Steward of Elements would have been my cut, as planeswalker oversaturation is a thing.
I'd also prefer Gearhulk to Kalonian Hydra for all of the reasons listed above and Meloku to Cloudskate - though those two don't really seem comparable.
@wtwlf123
I see your point, but I think you're overstating the difference between Bloodrage Brawler and Heir of Falkenrath. I mean, when you play your Heir of Falkenrath on turn 2, let's say, how often are you really not going to discard the card before your combat on turn 3? I mean, you want to transform it into Heir to the Night ASAP so that it can fly and not trade with your opponent's stupid Grizzly Bears, Savannah Lions, or Llanowar Elves. And then, once you have transformed it, you lose your one-of ability to discard because Heir to the Night can't transform back in any way. Sure, Heir of Falkenrath has SLIGHTLY more flexibility, but I think these two cards are far more similar than you're making them out to be.
Personally, I think Werebear is a better comparison than Gyre Sage, as it always taps for mana early and will grow late. However, I think it's better than that as well. Does the ability to tap for any color not count for a lot? I'm not saying this is Sylvan Caryatid, but that's probably the best 2cmc mana-creature. Other 2cmc mana-creatures that tap for multiple colors that people are playing include Rattleclaw Mystic and Servant of the Conduit; comparing this to those two would be worthwhile as well. Granted, maybe this won't make the cut in smaller cubes, but in my opinion it beats out much of the competition in larger cubes.
Expensive as hell, but man, that art is so ridiculously savage that I'm going to collect this thing anyway. They've really stepped up the art for this set, and that's saying something considering how good it's been for a long time.
1
I'm back looking at and brewing in Modern again after a year-and-a-half hiatus, and of course I'm back with my old favorite.
Upon doing a little research, I found that some people apparently are still working on this archetype. Here's a great video of Youtuber d00mwake playing a red green list in a Modern league a few months ago (12/26/2021). While the list is certainly not super tuned (the sideboard in particular looked like it could use some changes), it seemed pretty solid. He managed a 3-2 finish with a deck that he didn't build and was somewhat unfamiliar with. He also had some bad luck as far as match-ups; the follower who sent him the list apparently had several 5-0s with it, so there's definitely potential.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ5ofwMGp9k
And here's a link to the decklist:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/4511665#online
One thing that seemed well worth adding would be a Fire-Lit Thicket or two in the mana-base. d00mwake ran into color fixing issues a couple of times, and I can say from long experience with this deck - it's a land you really want.
Also, you know you have issues with your board when you consistently don't side anything in. He mentioned wanting better graveyard hate, and the Return to Natures he did bring in a couple of times seemed underwhelming; I get that it's a flexible card, but as a result of that it's not the best at dealing with the problems you really want it to deal with.
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Basically, I'd divide the Snow cards into four categories:
1.) Cards like Saddled Rimestag, Boreal Druid, Coldsteel Heart, and Moritte of the Frost are Snow, but don't care at all about Snow. Any cube can play these - even without Snow basics.
2.) Cards like the aforementioned Icehide Troll, Boreal Outrider, Avalanche Caller, Blizzard Strix, Winter's Rest, Berg Strider, Sculptor of Winter, Icebind Pillar, Icehide Golem, Arcum's Astrolabe, Frostwalk Bastion, and Mouth of Ronom need Snow basics to exist, but don't care about other Snow spells/permanents.
3.) Cards like Abominable Treefolk, Conifer Wurm, Spirit of the Aldergard, and Blizzard Brawl that improve slightly in combination with other Snow cards, but they're definitely good enough with just Snow lands and don't require a single other Snow spell/permanent in the deck to be fine - even good.
4.) Cards like Frost Augur, Rime Tender, and Iceberg Cancrix that get a bigger boost from other Snow spells/permanents in addition to just lands - possibly pushing them from fringe in a generic deck with Snow basics to good in a Snow archetype.
Unfortunately, only the latter two categories really "make" a Snow archetype imo; the previous two are support. Too bad Narfi, Betrayer King isn't a Simic card.
1
Interesting card, but I don't think it's for my cube.
1
On a completely separate note, a couple of times now I've seen people either suggesting or putting four Stomping Grounds in lists. You definitely don't want to do this unless you have a really good reason for it. Sure, it's probably the best R/G dual available, but it's also very painful - especially in multiples. To be honest, a pure R/G version of this deck should probably be running two, and three-color versions should probably run one of each shock (maybe two Stomping Grounds). That's plenty to get with all the fetches. Look at some other decks in the format that have some top 8 lists posted on MTGTOP8, MTGDECKs.net, or MTGGOLDFISH. You'll see all the U/W Control lists run two Hallowed Fountains; all the G/B Rock lists run two Overgrown Tombs. The Izzet Phoenix lists do seem to run three Steam Vents, but they're also only running 17-18 lands total. The only deck running a full play-set of shocks (Stomping Ground in this case) is TitanShift, and they're obviously doing so because of the Mountains-matter theme associated with Valakut.
Copperline Gorge, Fire-Lit Thicket, Grove of the Burnwillows, Raging Ravine, Sheltered Thicket, more off-color fetches, Prismatic Vista, mono-color or even colorless utility-lands, more basics, etc... there are so many good options.
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WWhiteW:
Glory-Bound Initiate - this seemed automatic, particularly since I'm trying to push life-gain.
Gideon of the Trials - as a 3cmc Planeswalker, this looks like a strong card. The only thing I'm worried about is pushing the number of Gideons over the limit.
UBlueU:
Censor - a strong roll-player that we're all looking forward to. Who doesn't like Force Spike and Daze?
Curator of Mysteries - I want this guy to be good, but it was probably one of the last in, and I'm worried that given time it could find its way out.
BBlackB:
Never - a welcome addition to check the power-creep of planeswalkers.
Liliana, Death's Majesty - one of the cards I'm most excited about, and hopefully, something that will encourage more people to play black.
RRedR:
Soul-Scar Mage - a worse version of a somewhat marginal card, but a role-player for archetypes like spells-matter, burn, and tokens that we're trying to bolster. I honestly would not be surprised if it (and Monastery Swiftspear) either found it's way out in time or slowly rose in the ranks of red's 1-drops as the color shifted its focus.
Bloodrage Brawler - controversial, but highly anticipated amongst my play-group.
Sweltering Suns - there's never much buzz around slight upgrades, but they shouldn't be neglected.
Glorybringer - people seem to be sleeping on this here, perhaps because it was spoiled so early. Still, both Stormbreath Dragon and Flametongue Kavu always get picked reasonably highly in my playgroup.
GGreenG:
Channeler Initiate - another roll-player, but one that may be best suited for cubes that want higher creature counts and that want to play g/x and g/x/x colored decks. We're happy to give it a try.
Rhonas the Indomitable - from the initial feedback, an early candidate for best Amonkhet card for cube.
Vizier of the Menagerie - although most testing results posted here seem to be somewhat negative, those results appear to come from powered cubes with lower creature counts. Like with Channeler Initiate, my cube supports creatures-matter (Domri Rade, Collected Company, Duskwatch Recruiter, etc...) as a g/x or g/x/x colored archetype that wants a Future Sight creature.
Land:
Irrigated Farmland
Fetid Pools
Sheltered Thicket
Canyon Slough
Scattered Groves
Basic land type synergies exist in my cube (Vedalken Shackles, Gush, Guardian of Tazeem, Tendrils of Corruption, Dungrove Elder, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, Emeria, the Sky Ruin, etc...), so there are more incentives for us than for other lists.
For a grand total of eighteen potential new cards from this set - granted five are lands. Excluding Kaladesh, this would be the most since Dragons of Tarkir for us if everything stays.
Cards that didn't quite make it but that I'll definitely be watching to see how others who are testing them like them:
Angel of Sanctions - I love Fiend Hunters.
Harsh Mentor - I hope this can get there, as it's SOOOOO much more interesting than some of my red 2-drops. However, I'm worried that it will just be a bear most of the time, particularly because my activated, non-mana abilities count was a lower percentage than some of the smaller, powered cube lists of others who posted their data.
1
I love Sagu Mauler (and its compatriot Simic Sky Swallower) because it's a great ramp target (Simic's primary archetype imo), a good reanimator target, a good Natural Order target, a good Oath target, etc... It's a shame you decided to cut it for the new Nissa - though I understand (and agree with) the decision to keep Trygon Predator. Normally I'm not a huge fan of that card in an unpowered environment, but your cube still has a lot of powerful mana-rocks, equipment, and otherwise nasty artifacts, so it makes sense. The only thing I will say, and I know this wasn't an option, is why not cut a Simic planeswalker for a Simic planeswalker? Kiora, Master of the Depths for Nissa, Steward of Elements would have been my cut, as planeswalker oversaturation is a thing.
I'd also prefer Gearhulk to Kalonian Hydra for all of the reasons listed above and Meloku to Cloudskate - though those two don't really seem comparable.
1
I see your point, but I think you're overstating the difference between Bloodrage Brawler and Heir of Falkenrath. I mean, when you play your Heir of Falkenrath on turn 2, let's say, how often are you really not going to discard the card before your combat on turn 3? I mean, you want to transform it into Heir to the Night ASAP so that it can fly and not trade with your opponent's stupid Grizzly Bears, Savannah Lions, or Llanowar Elves. And then, once you have transformed it, you lose your one-of ability to discard because Heir to the Night can't transform back in any way. Sure, Heir of Falkenrath has SLIGHTLY more flexibility, but I think these two cards are far more similar than you're making them out to be.
1