I am sorry for taking so long to post this, I had intended to read the all the game posts I missed, and the chats, so that I could give some constructive feedback, but a week later and I still haven’t had a chance, and I didn’t want to delay any longer.
Thank you Grapefruit for running the game. The flavor and roles were awesome! I think the balance was ok, it seams scum-sided in retrospect, but if town had lynched mafia early, and mafia had targeted players with too much vitality to kill, perhaps the game would have appeared town sided. I do think that you overestimated the value of neighbor chat for town, more so because wasn’t skill chats one way only? I only had skill with Bur who could have a two way chat. I think the chat mechanics and cost were fine, just that they weren’t of much real value to town. On my home site we had third-party roles in most of our games, so I generally like them.
Thanks to everyone for making me feel welcome on this site, especially Osie for inviting me and Silvercrys who was the first to welcome me, and to my awesome scum partners. My dog sends a special shout out to Sloth and Chandler, his new buddies.. I like this community and would like to play again with you.
I might need to go out again for a few minutes but I’m mostly here until deadline.
Some thoughts on the latest content.
I don’t think that NL is a good idea, it just means we likely have the same discussions on D5 that we are having today.
I’m against voting Bur today. I still want to eliminate Cuthalion and I don’t see why he is getting townreads. He refused to answer questions and explain his votes.
Did Bur explain his strong town read of Anak? [see post 3937, is it Anak’s claim?]
Anyway, now that I've gotten the bitterness out of my system, I'm slotting Cuth as town. I like the Wit-kill proposal, and he's probably only scum if all the OG Wits happen to be town [because Wit was rolled after alignments or something].
You’re town reading Cuth what a surprise. [/sarcasm]
@Cuth so should I just assume you're ignoring me, or...?
SLOTH!!!!
Not especially, I don't know. My ideal situation might be to just yeet one of the og wits but have wisp not on the wagon and then have him kill the other so we guaranteed get a wolf if we think that's a thing, but I don't know if enough people are around to coordinate that.
I mean that I've asked you questions you just haven't answered or even acknowledged.
yes, because they're either things I've explained already or things that require a lot of work to explain
which doesn't look like it's going to happen today
You’re not going to answer questions today what a surprise. [/sarcasm]
I am wondering about a Bessie/bur partnership in that yesterday I mentioned to bur that I hadn’t really reassessed Bessie and I thought she was getting written off as town a little too easily for suspecting me when she first came in. I had kinda gut read her as town and not thought about it but not really gone past that. Bur thought she should be reassessed but not yesterday, and then today in bessies read list she did the same with bur in which she said she suspected bur until neighborhood and is less suspicious but won’t vote there today. Bessie had gotten after me at the beginning of the game for wanting a neighborhood because she claimed I should be able to talk in the game, so I guess I find it odd that she’s less suspicious of bur for talking more in the neighborhood, and I’m concerned they’re doing that “I suspect my partner but don’t want to vote them today” dance.
I feel a little better about Bur because I was able to get some info, like some reasons for his reads, that he wasn’t putting in the thread. Because I am always suspicious when someone makes a read they can’t or won’t explain. But I don’t have chat with Bur today so I would need to see that info in the thread. As far as me getting town read for suspecting Tammy, I have said many times myself, I had no meta knowledge of Tammy before this game and read no other games on this forum. I didn’t even know what forum the game was on when I agreed to replace. It’s very frustrating to be still explaining on page 80 that I read through the game and made my opening post notes in isolation with no forum or player meta knowledge (except the two players I have played with on other forums), I was just noting stuff that pinged me. And I’m suspicious of anyone that still refuses to look at this from my point of view, and what I, a newbie to this forum, might have been pinged by, and keeps sticking on ‘well it’s TAMMY”.
I will be here in the morning and probably can arrange to be here at deadline.
bessie: can you give a couple post numbers where Vaimes is doing that?
Also is the reason you're suspicious of it because you're scum reading cuth or is there something in the way that Vaimes is doing it?
Here’s some D4 posts that I find suspicious, looking at the progression. Vaimes starts out with a vote on Cuth with a caveat that it’s just to provoke him to post.
if Cuth is a wolf, then Boom has to be a wolf with him, he is the only other vanillaish role, that could afford to hold the night KP? correct?
@Vaimes
unless someone is just straight-up lying about their role
ah **** I keep forgetting about that
This vote is more an invitation to defend himself instead of having me do it for him, and to explain his Night actions.
god is Anak mafia? Because like what the ****, this PoE makes no sense to me.
Clearing Tammy and KJ based on behavior. If anyone other than KJ claimed a double vote that had never actually been used, I'd probably steamroll them. Like his claim is actually making my skin crawl, but goddamn it if he isn't one of my strongest townreads.
Clearing Sloth because Tammy is alive, hasn't been blocked, and hasn't been announcing her targets to Sloth.
I guessssss maybe remove Cuth/Boom? Cuth is wine incarnate but I can't bring myself to keep squeezing him for anything, any hint of gamesolving. Boom's had ok posts toDay.
I don't like this, because I can't clear both Bur and Highroller unless there's another neutral out there, or the scumteam is small to compensate for town having WEAK ABILITIES.
I wish I could completely wipe away my memories of this game and start over fresh.
I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart. I think Highroller is fine, just saw how much more cooperative he was in Ghostbusters and got excited that maybe he wasn't town this time.
I’ve posted pings I’ve had from Vaimes since I’ve joined the game on D2, and he was on my short list. Skimming my posts, the early pings were because of what I thought was a forced defense of Tammy. And there were some other pings, you can iso my posts.
I'm not sure why Bessie thinks she caught Cuth with something or needs coaching on the possible 4 mafia thing. We've already discussed possibilities, and considering this site uses three mafia members for a 12 person game, having four with a neutral seems a reasonable assumption to make. I need to shore up my read on Cuth, but don't really think that's a gotcha moment.
The setup spec is not the reason at all. I am suspicious of Cuth because he is voting for me and he refuses to explain the reason.
[pre post edit: see below refer to Cuthalion’s post #3861]
Bessie - Yes, I've been missing posts here and there; I'm not sure why sometimes. It's very weird. From your reads list - Do you still suspect Vaimes? I can't tell if that was a prior suspicion or still a suspicion. Is it basically cuth/anak maybe vaimes maybe bur that you're looking at?
In my post I am suspicious of why Vaimes is trying to force a town read of Cuthalion.
Because one nobody here outside highroller thinks I am mafia, and you are not going to see wolves get low balled when you have a neutral that can possibly kill them, and 5 would mean this game is already over
bessie trying to roast me over the coals for verbalizing the assumption that there are four wolves, which i think is pretty obvious at this point short of some really unusual game design choices
Really? You guys aren’t very creative.
Explain?
There are so many possibilities for the setup. My home site we loved setup spec and spent a lot of time on it. The site I have been playing on considers setup spec active lurking. Some possible setups for an 18 player game:
14 town, 4 mafia
13 town, 5 mafia
13 town, 4 mafia, 1 independent
12 town, 4 mafia, 1 indie1, 1 indie2
13 town, 3 mafia1, 2 mafia2
12 town, 3 mafia1, 3 mafia2
12 town, 3 mafia1, 2 mafia2, 1 indie
12 town, 2 mafia1, 2 mafia2, 2 mafia3
12 town, 2 mafia1, 2 mafia2, 1 indie1, 1 indie2
13 town, 4 mafia, 1 cult
Etc.
re: HighRoller: Do you understand his lack of non-wisp content?
Can you talk more about what you like about Killjoy an I's posting style? You described us in identical terms and I want to hear...more.
I don’t usually put together teams, at least not until there is at least one flip. I played a game recently where I was town and eliminated D2, and the entirety of D2 was spent working out teams that included me. I believe that was what lost that game for town (not the misyeet, but the waste of D2 by working out teams). I have players of whom I’m suspicious, but I am suspicious of them independently of each other. On D3 I did think there was a possibility of an Anak and Azrael team. But I also posted my suspicious of them independently.
Re Highroller: I’m not sure I understand what your question is. I understand Highroller’s content, I can follow his reasoning in his arguments for eliminating Wisp. He has posted a small amount of non-Wisp content but has been tunneling on Wisp. I understand if he is having trouble focusing on anything outside his tunnel, as I tend to be a tunneler myself.
Re posting styles. I described your and Killkoy’s posting styles in identical terms because of your style not necessarily your content. I find both of you make posts that are easy for me to follow and understand. You quote relevant posts and ask questions related to what you quoted, I don’t need to search through the thread and try to figure out what you are talking about (and I like that you spoiler sections that aren’t directly relevant to your current post but are useful for background, some post are long nestled quotes and it takes time to sort through them and figure out the relevant parts when there is no underling or bold to indicate what I should be looking at). When you make a post I can follow your thought progression.
I could maybe vote Sloth because I don’t think he really believes what Anak has done is scum-indicative, but I’ve liked him otherwise.
I keep flipping on Cuth and bessie. I liked bessie pointing out that he could be manipulating me into feeding him reasons to scumread her.
At this point I’m even considering rereading Tammy. When nothing makes sense it’s usually because there’s a big misclear, but I don’t think widening their POE is what we need right now.
in case you seriously think that line of reasoning is at all solid, here's what's going on big picture: given my spot in the game and who's been pushing whom, i feel like i have a finger on the pulse of a pretty small poe, and given the size even if i'm wrong on one person i don't think i'm wrong on all the people i see doing things like this
i have literally no reason to prompt you for reasons to dunk on bessie, you're perfectly aware of most of them yourself (i think there are not that many red flags as such but a lot of general direction/narrative context clues) and it's not like me not doing work so that i can have you do whatever and just vaguely hint is at all my style or would be that effective here
the thing i was specifically being cryptic about on sunday was how bessie/sloth/tubba have all responded to my suspicion, which I've pretty clearly established as being based on a more holistic perception of the game and votes and such, and been like "dude this is nothing you have nothing there are no REASONS" and like been super defensive and all "zomg how do you know it's four wolves" "lol this is ridiculous" instead of just ignoring me or actually try to argue that i'm a wolf for literally anything other than, well, not explaining my reasoning in depth to them personally upon demand
me not answering their questions is not because i can't justify them if i put the work in, it's because that grouping contains at the very least two wolves unless i'm super wrong on at least one of you/kj/tammy, and i'd rather spend time interacting with y'all and pointing you towards the things i see (i haven't done a fantastic job of this but sue me) than argue with wolves about pointless nothings, because obviously they're not going to agree that basically all of them have ingenuine and constructed progressions on basically all of their reads and have done little other than push villagers (and continue to do so in what could genuinely be mylo, and i pointed this out first), and have absolutely garbage explanations for why they're all pushing me/anak specifically over ANY of each other when there are literally four wolves and those people have been in the poe and not particularly villagery at all all game
literally the majority of my reasoning for having the reads i do, and i can promise this would not change
I am not following your post. I have asked you repeatedly to explain your reason for voting for me, and to give a reason why you think I am scum. And here all you do is point out that you were deliberately being cryptic, and you still don’t explain the reason you gave at start of day. Now you say that I have “garbage” explanation for pushing you, which I don’t think is true at all.
@Bessie on top of the other questions I left for you, can you also answer why you're voting Wisp and if you're planning to move it?
I was voting for Wisp because he is non-town. My strongest scum read is Cuthalion. I’ve presented my case and he still can’t give an explanation of his reason for voting for me at the start of D4 so I will move my vote there.
Beyond that, do you have other reads? Who's in your bottom 3? or top 3? (if you've gone over them in a recent post, just point me to it)
I’ve been trying to do a real reads list but I there has just been too much content and I never was even able to get back to the last half of D1. On my home site most complete games were around 20 pages or so, and I am usually behind even in small games. I don’t have any references from my home site easily available (but will try to find something if requested). Or there are some places where I was talking about my time constraints and problems with content overload in the games I linked earlier. https://smashboards.com/threads/flavorless-mafia-iii-game-over-who-won.501573/
Here’s my reads without doing a thread reread, I skimmed through D4 content as I wrote this.
Anak – I thought he was scummy yesterday and I ended the day with one of my votes on him. I still find him suspicious for his D4 content and would vote for him today.
BoomFrog – I have never been that good at reading BoomFrog but I haven’t had any major scum pings from him. The only ping I have is the odd comment he made in post #3602 about my push on Azrael. Like I said I wasn’t the only player pushing Azrael so I am suspicious as to why he pointed out why that was a negative for me in particular.
Bur – The thing that I previously found most suspicious about Bur was that he voted without giving reasons. I skilled him because I had a free skill, and he did explain some reads more in chat than he was doing in the thread. I still do not have a strong town lean but I am against voting for him today.
Cuthalion – He has been one of my scum reads since D2. He is voting for me without giving a reason that he can explain which I find suspicious. For more of my thoughts see my D4 posts.
Highroller – I can understand his content and his focus on Wisp.
Killjoy – I think he has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Slothful – Another player that I think has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Tammy – I was suspicious of her early game content for what seemed to me to be not taking strong positions on anything, like everything she posted had a disclaimer. Her playstyle is the type that I often clash with so that may be part of my early suspicion on her. I’m still not seeing why Tammy was obvitown early in the game but I think I was more suspicious of some players that I felt were too quick to defend Tammy without trying to understand what a player that had no prior experience with her found suspicious.
Tubba – I think I will stand by what I said previously, I don’t see the scum reads on Tubba. Maybe it is because his playstyle is more like mine, unlike someone like Tammy who’s playstyle is very different from mine.
Vaimes – I have been suspicious of Vaimes since D2, I often don’t follow his reads. Like, he started D4 voting for Cuth, but says it was just to provoke him to post. There was also this comment in post #3652: “I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart.” Like he is trying to force this read.
Wisp – Self-claimed non-town.
Ending with content through page 76. I’ll pick up on page 77 later.
Also, this has been confusing me for a while, but I don’t see every post every time I load the page. Like, in one tab I have open, the first post on page 77 is #3802, but if I open page 77 in another tab I can’t see this post and the first post is #3803. This has happened other times too where I can’t see a particular post that I remember being at the top of a page. Is this an issue for anyone else?
@bessie I'm not even saying you're wrong on Cuth or aren't making valid points re: how he's approaching you, but what does this boil down to? He hasn't answered this one question, therefore he's scum? (Or is he scum to you, have you actually said that? You're voting Wisp from what I saw previous page).
Like, do you have anything more to say on Cuth and what is your read on him ultimately?
Cuthalion has been on my short list of players I would vote for since D2.
My final D2 post:
And, ummm, and the one question Cuthalion won’t answer is “why did you vote for me?”, not something like “what did you have for dinner last night?” Or did I somehow misunderstand and you do RVS at the start of every game day on this forum? [/sarcasm]
Pings which I pointed out in my posts: #1524 : odd start of D2 post and preemptive excuse for not reading Tammy and Vaimes. #2350 : Suspicion that he was pushing to yet BoomFrog D2 even though he wasn’t necessarily scum reading BoomFrog, so that he could get his bonus. #2507 : Posting reads without giving reasons. #3273 Voting for me for a vague unexplained reason.
Posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 : Won’t respond to my requests to explain his vote. #3674 One of his issues with me is that I’m suspicious of him, and he’s so obvitown. [/sarcasm].
More stuff already pointed out on this page: Refusal to give a read on me and justify his vote, and is leaning on Wisp and Vaimes to do it for him.
Because one nobody here outside highroller thinks I am mafia, and you are not going to see wolves get low balled when you have a neutral that can possibly kill them, and 5 would mean this game is already over
bessie trying to roast me over the coals for verbalizing the assumption that there are four wolves, which i think is pretty obvious at this point short of some really unusual game design choices
i'm not going to spend time arguing with you about why you're not a wolf, but i will explain to the rest of the thread why i think you are at some later point (probably when people are itt and ready to discuss things in depth and i'm not a zombie)
You are misrepresenting what I am asking and I think you know it. I am not arguing your points against me because you haven’t given any.
because we have wisp, who's basically somewhere in between a survivor and a sk, and no other neutrals make sense in this setup, and 3 wolves is criminally underpowered and five would be criminally overpowered
This is speculation. You said "and we know we have four wolves alive". How do you know we have four wolves alive?
And why am I scum? Explain your original reason for voting for me, without Wisp's or Vaimes's coaching.
@Cuthalion, I thought today you were going to explain your reason for voting for me. Where is it, I’ve been asking since you voted for me in post #3099 , and this was the only reason I could find, from a few posts earlier:
i think there are at least two in sloth/bessie/tubba just from voting stuffs yesterday
I asked Cuthalion to explain the reason for his vote in more detail, in post #3273 , which he ignored, and I asked him again in posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 . When he finally responded he did not answer the question and gave this reason:
if you want more details than "you're probably a wolf through poe and reads", that should become more clear in about 24 hours
You not only refused to explain his original reason for voting for me, you refused to give any reason, and were going to delay for 24 hours, which was when you were scheduled to talk things through with Wisp. When pushed by me on this, you responded with
I want you to explain your given reason for voting for me when you voted for me. I don’t want you to go back and look for different reasons now that you have been asked to justify your vote.
there are two answers to this question
number one: you're probably a wolf through poe and reads
number two: there's more resistance to a sloth (and to a lesser degree a tubba) yeet
my posting tomorrow will probably not change any of the reasonings behind the first answer, it will just set them out in a clearer way from which we can have conversations about the validity of my thought processes and where it's actually laid out in more depth for all to see
the actual reasons are pretty clear i think from what i've said (at least insofar as "these are my reads and this is a natural conclusion from those"), but i don't expect anyone else to be on board without understanding why i think the things i think
No your reasons aren’t clear, which is why I’ve asked you to explain them; and I’ve noted that you are already making an excuse for people not understanding your reasons which you won’t present anyway.
You gave a reason for voting for me. I asked you to explain your reason. Which you are saying you will do tomorrow, with the disclaimer that you don’t expect anyone to understand it anyway.
A reason that I have been reading you as non-town is that you don’t seem as interested in reading anyone, you seem more interested in finding targets, like with BoomFrog on D2, and coming up with a justification later. You didn’t seem to care if BoomFrog was town or scum, you were more interested in your bonus power. I was thinking that you might be indie, reasoning that town!you would want to hit mafia, and mafia!you would want to at least appear that you wanted to hit mafia. Now on D4 you are voting for me for a reason you can’t explain, so tomorrow you are going to talk it out with Wisp and see if you can come up with another reason that you can explain.
@Cuthalion by the way you still haven’t answered this:
Why did Cuth say something super mysterious and then disappear.
Vaimes, maybe because Cuthalion wants you to pick apart my posts and find a reason for him to keep his vote on me. He fished again for you to do it here:
I want you to explain your given reason for voting for me when you voted for me. I don’t want you to go back and look for different reasons now that you have been asked to justify your vote.
there are two answers to this question
number one: you're probably a wolf through poe and reads
number two: there's more resistance to a sloth (and to a lesser degree a tubba) yeet
my posting tomorrow will probably not change any of the reasonings behind the first answer, it will just set them out in a clearer way from which we can have conversations about the validity of my thought processes and where it's actually laid out in more depth for all to see
the actual reasons are pretty clear i think from what i've said (at least insofar as "these are my reads and this is a natural conclusion from those"), but i don't expect anyone else to be on board without understanding why i think the things i think
You gave a reason for voting for me. I asked you to explain your reason. Which you are saying you will do tomorrow, with the disclaimer that you don’t expect anyone to understand it anyway.
A reason that I have been reading you as non-town is that you don’t seem as interested in reading anyone, you seem more interested in finding targets, like with BoomFrog on D2, and coming up with a justification later. You didn’t seem to care if BoomFrog was town or scum, you were more interested in your bonus power. I was thinking that you might be indie, reasoning that town!you would want to hit mafia, and mafia!you would want to at least appear that you wanted to hit mafia. Now on D4 you are voting for me for a reason you can’t explain, so tomorrow you are going to talk it out with Wisp and see if you can come up with another reason that you can explain.
Bessie always has difficulty keeping up in even medium sized games, her low volume of posting is NAI. And the extra work on the weekend is ligit, we never lie about RL influence regardless of alignment in game. The staying attack on Tammy was a plus. The push on Azreal was internally consistent but a minus for bad results. Her tone is pretty good considering her on a meta level, as Scum she's generally a lot more... mud slingy. It's waffly but I'm still leaning town. Definitely stays in the PoE though.
Yeah well I wasn’t the only player scum reading Azrael.
@Boom
I will say, she did have a lot more, "not you" arguments and just straight up refusals to actually put in work when I asked her too, but at least here she is consistently doing stuff, but like she just hasn't had a real push since Tammy, who was literally obvious town, and her vote on me is poor. I want you to now talk in more detail about her posts in this game, if you, please? We really need to figure this ***** out today
I gave reasons for my votes for Azrael D2 and D3, what were you expecting me to do for a “real push”? Azreal was being pushed by other players, I added my own reasons that pinged me from my reads when I felt I had something to add, and didn’t feel the need to quote every post I agreed with and add “+1” at the end.
and then i see people like sloth and bessie and tubba who are just pushing villagers and have no really good reason not to be pushing other people in that group as much and have bad reasoning but it doesn't really matter because all they need is really 1-2 misyeets at most
So your issue with me is that I’m scum reading and pushing you?
Why didnt you use it night 1 or 2? And did u say why you targeted Tammy?
@bessie
I don’t know why WakeMeUp did not use it N1.
I didn’t use it N2 because I was reluctant to spend that much Vit until I understood the game a little better.
N3 I targeted Tammy because, as has been said many times, she is being strongly town read by many players.
if you want more details than "you're probably a wolf through poe and reads", that should become more clear in about 24 hours
I want you to explain your given reason for voting for me when you voted for me. I don’t want you to go back and look for different reasons now that you have been asked to justify your vote.
we are literally stalling anyways, cause we all know where this gunna go
so maybe I do want to end the day rather than see people talk about how I need to die, instead of actively trying to find a wolf, so I can win
The point is that you don’t need to find a wolf to win. You just need the yeet to be anyone besides you.
Wisp’s lack of thought (rereading the claims, or thinking about the odds of duplicate roles) and his vote makes me feel that he has moved from trying to figure out the game to just trying to get through the day.
I would like to see you put a vote on a mafia read. Pushing Wisp toDay just waives responsibility from scumhunting.
I currently suspect Anak and Cuthalion. I read the articles Azrael posted, I do not believe he is an idiot. I think he would have claimed the information he had on Anak’s role, if Anak is being truthful about his role.
@Vaimes
yes, it's highly likely, doesn't mean it doesn't irk me, because again, it's super unlikely we ever kill that anyways
anyways, I am going to build a team assuming Bessie is just a wolf here, after I get out of work
It doesn’t reeeally matter, I kinda thought it was a scum watcher claim anyways.
Might be, but it's not LITERALLY Cantrip's claim so I'm gonna not just roast her on THAT specifically.
I'm not a huge fan of the reactionary vote on Wisp though.
Wisp’s lack of thought (rereading the claims, or thinking about the odds of duplicate roles) and his vote makes me feel that he has moved from trying to figure out the game to just trying to get through the day.
Cantripmancer was missing in the morning but his bloody bed-sheets suggest the worst.
He was: Hest - Town Trader
Diplomacy is the velvet glove that cloaks the fist of power.
You are a wealthy trader in Bingtown. Married to Alise, you are generous with your money, allowing her to pursue her love of dragons. You have a narcissistic and jealous streak, but are highly respected in Bingtown society.
You start with 3 Vitality.
Mutually Beneficial: Night Action - You may spend 2V to learn who another target player visits that night. That player gains 1V.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
It is now Day 4. With 12 alive majority is 7. The day ends Monday the 25th at 0900 AEDT. Countdown here.
Oh, and it looks like we’re mass claiming?
Ok, I’m Brashen Trell, town first mate, I can spend 2 Vit to learn who visits a player at night. I have no useful results to share.
Uh. Two trackers? I... don't think it's likely that there are two of the same role? Vote Bessie
Thank you Grapefruit for running the game. The flavor and roles were awesome! I think the balance was ok, it seams scum-sided in retrospect, but if town had lynched mafia early, and mafia had targeted players with too much vitality to kill, perhaps the game would have appeared town sided. I do think that you overestimated the value of neighbor chat for town, more so because wasn’t skill chats one way only? I only had skill with Bur who could have a two way chat. I think the chat mechanics and cost were fine, just that they weren’t of much real value to town. On my home site we had third-party roles in most of our games, so I generally like them.
Thanks to everyone for making me feel welcome on this site, especially Osie for inviting me and Silvercrys who was the first to welcome me, and to my awesome scum partners. My dog sends a special shout out to Sloth and Chandler, his new buddies.. I like this community and would like to play again with you.
Some thoughts on the latest content.
I don’t think that NL is a good idea, it just means we likely have the same discussions on D5 that we are having today.
I’m against voting Bur today. I still want to eliminate Cuthalion and I don’t see why he is getting townreads. He refused to answer questions and explain his votes.
Did Bur explain his strong town read of Anak? [see post 3937, is it Anak’s claim?]
You’re cool. Please don’t worry about this game, just post if you can.
Chandler you’re a very good handsome boy, your person is a meanie for making you wear the cone of shame.
You’re town reading Cuth what a surprise. [/sarcasm]
You’re not going to answer questions today what a surprise. [/sarcasm]
I feel a little better about Bur because I was able to get some info, like some reasons for his reads, that he wasn’t putting in the thread. Because I am always suspicious when someone makes a read they can’t or won’t explain. But I don’t have chat with Bur today so I would need to see that info in the thread. As far as me getting town read for suspecting Tammy, I have said many times myself, I had no meta knowledge of Tammy before this game and read no other games on this forum. I didn’t even know what forum the game was on when I agreed to replace. It’s very frustrating to be still explaining on page 80 that I read through the game and made my opening post notes in isolation with no forum or player meta knowledge (except the two players I have played with on other forums), I was just noting stuff that pinged me. And I’m suspicious of anyone that still refuses to look at this from my point of view, and what I, a newbie to this forum, might have been pinged by, and keeps sticking on ‘well it’s TAMMY”.
I will be here in the morning and probably can arrange to be here at deadline.
Here’s some D4 posts that I find suspicious, looking at the progression. Vaimes starts out with a vote on Cuth with a caveat that it’s just to provoke him to post.
I’ve posted pings I’ve had from Vaimes since I’ve joined the game on D2, and he was on my short list. Skimming my posts, the early pings were because of what I thought was a forced defense of Tammy. And there were some other pings, you can iso my posts.
[pre post edit: see below refer to Cuthalion’s post #3861]
In my post I am suspicious of why Vaimes is trying to force a town read of Cuthalion.
There are so many possibilities for the setup. My home site we loved setup spec and spent a lot of time on it. The site I have been playing on considers setup spec active lurking. Some possible setups for an 18 player game:
14 town, 4 mafia
13 town, 5 mafia
13 town, 4 mafia, 1 independent
12 town, 4 mafia, 1 indie1, 1 indie2
13 town, 3 mafia1, 2 mafia2
12 town, 3 mafia1, 3 mafia2
12 town, 3 mafia1, 2 mafia2, 1 indie
12 town, 2 mafia1, 2 mafia2, 2 mafia3
12 town, 2 mafia1, 2 mafia2, 1 indie1, 1 indie2
13 town, 4 mafia, 1 cult
Etc.
I don’t usually put together teams, at least not until there is at least one flip. I played a game recently where I was town and eliminated D2, and the entirety of D2 was spent working out teams that included me. I believe that was what lost that game for town (not the misyeet, but the waste of D2 by working out teams). I have players of whom I’m suspicious, but I am suspicious of them independently of each other. On D3 I did think there was a possibility of an Anak and Azrael team. But I also posted my suspicious of them independently.
Re Highroller: I’m not sure I understand what your question is. I understand Highroller’s content, I can follow his reasoning in his arguments for eliminating Wisp. He has posted a small amount of non-Wisp content but has been tunneling on Wisp. I understand if he is having trouble focusing on anything outside his tunnel, as I tend to be a tunneler myself.
Re posting styles. I described your and Killkoy’s posting styles in identical terms because of your style not necessarily your content. I find both of you make posts that are easy for me to follow and understand. You quote relevant posts and ask questions related to what you quoted, I don’t need to search through the thread and try to figure out what you are talking about (and I like that you spoiler sections that aren’t directly relevant to your current post but are useful for background, some post are long nestled quotes and it takes time to sort through them and figure out the relevant parts when there is no underling or bold to indicate what I should be looking at). When you make a post I can follow your thought progression.
Can you point me to the post to which you are referring?
I am not following your post. I have asked you repeatedly to explain your reason for voting for me, and to give a reason why you think I am scum. And here all you do is point out that you were deliberately being cryptic, and you still don’t explain the reason you gave at start of day. Now you say that I have “garbage” explanation for pushing you, which I don’t think is true at all.
I was voting for Wisp because he is non-town. My strongest scum read is Cuthalion. I’ve presented my case and he still can’t give an explanation of his reason for voting for me at the start of D4 so I will move my vote there.
Unvote
Vote: Cuthalion
I’ve been trying to do a real reads list but I there has just been too much content and I never was even able to get back to the last half of D1. On my home site most complete games were around 20 pages or so, and I am usually behind even in small games. I don’t have any references from my home site easily available (but will try to find something if requested). Or there are some places where I was talking about my time constraints and problems with content overload in the games I linked earlier.
https://smashboards.com/threads/flavorless-mafia-iii-game-over-who-won.501573/
Here’s my reads without doing a thread reread, I skimmed through D4 content as I wrote this.
Anak – I thought he was scummy yesterday and I ended the day with one of my votes on him. I still find him suspicious for his D4 content and would vote for him today.
BoomFrog – I have never been that good at reading BoomFrog but I haven’t had any major scum pings from him. The only ping I have is the odd comment he made in post #3602 about my push on Azrael. Like I said I wasn’t the only player pushing Azrael so I am suspicious as to why he pointed out why that was a negative for me in particular.
Bur – The thing that I previously found most suspicious about Bur was that he voted without giving reasons. I skilled him because I had a free skill, and he did explain some reads more in chat than he was doing in the thread. I still do not have a strong town lean but I am against voting for him today.
Cuthalion – He has been one of my scum reads since D2. He is voting for me without giving a reason that he can explain which I find suspicious. For more of my thoughts see my D4 posts.
Highroller – I can understand his content and his focus on Wisp.
Killjoy – I think he has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Slothful – Another player that I think has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Tammy – I was suspicious of her early game content for what seemed to me to be not taking strong positions on anything, like everything she posted had a disclaimer. Her playstyle is the type that I often clash with so that may be part of my early suspicion on her. I’m still not seeing why Tammy was obvitown early in the game but I think I was more suspicious of some players that I felt were too quick to defend Tammy without trying to understand what a player that had no prior experience with her found suspicious.
Tubba – I think I will stand by what I said previously, I don’t see the scum reads on Tubba. Maybe it is because his playstyle is more like mine, unlike someone like Tammy who’s playstyle is very different from mine.
Vaimes – I have been suspicious of Vaimes since D2, I often don’t follow his reads. Like, he started D4 voting for Cuth, but says it was just to provoke him to post. There was also this comment in post #3652: “I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart.” Like he is trying to force this read.
Wisp – Self-claimed non-town.
Ending with content through page 76. I’ll pick up on page 77 later.
Also, this has been confusing me for a while, but I don’t see every post every time I load the page. Like, in one tab I have open, the first post on page 77 is #3802, but if I open page 77 in another tab I can’t see this post and the first post is #3803. This has happened other times too where I can’t see a particular post that I remember being at the top of a page. Is this an issue for anyone else?
Cuthalion has been on my short list of players I would vote for since D2.
My final D2 post:
And, ummm, and the one question Cuthalion won’t answer is “why did you vote for me?”, not something like “what did you have for dinner last night?” Or did I somehow misunderstand and you do RVS at the start of every game day on this forum? [/sarcasm]
Pings which I pointed out in my posts:
#1524 : odd start of D2 post and preemptive excuse for not reading Tammy and Vaimes.
#2350 : Suspicion that he was pushing to yet BoomFrog D2 even though he wasn’t necessarily scum reading BoomFrog, so that he could get his bonus.
#2507 : Posting reads without giving reasons.
#3273 Voting for me for a vague unexplained reason.
Posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 : Won’t respond to my requests to explain his vote.
#3674 One of his issues with me is that I’m suspicious of him, and he’s so obvitown. [/sarcasm].
More stuff already pointed out on this page: Refusal to give a read on me and justify his vote, and is leaning on Wisp and Vaimes to do it for him.
Really? You guys aren’t very creative.
You are misrepresenting what I am asking and I think you know it. I am not arguing your points against me because you haven’t given any.
Another post with my reads to follow.
This is speculation. You said "and we know we have four wolves alive". How do you know we have four wolves alive?
And why am I scum? Explain your original reason for voting for me, without Wisp's or Vaimes's coaching.
I asked Cuthalion to explain the reason for his vote in more detail, in post #3273 , which he ignored, and I asked him again in posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 . When he finally responded he did not answer the question and gave this reason:
You not only refused to explain his original reason for voting for me, you refused to give any reason, and were going to delay for 24 hours, which was when you were scheduled to talk things through with Wisp. When pushed by me on this, you responded with
No your reasons aren’t clear, which is why I’ve asked you to explain them; and I’ve noted that you are already making an excuse for people not understanding your reasons which you won’t present anyway.
I pointed this out in #3674:
@Cuthalion by the way you still haven’t answered this:
Though I know you saw it, and you read it, because you responded with this:
Vaimes, maybe because Cuthalion wants you to pick apart my posts and find a reason for him to keep his vote on me. He fished again for you to do it here:
Aaaannnnddd, Cuthalion still hasn’t given a reason for voting me??
How do you "know" we have four wolves?
You gave a reason for voting for me. I asked you to explain your reason. Which you are saying you will do tomorrow, with the disclaimer that you don’t expect anyone to understand it anyway.
A reason that I have been reading you as non-town is that you don’t seem as interested in reading anyone, you seem more interested in finding targets, like with BoomFrog on D2, and coming up with a justification later. You didn’t seem to care if BoomFrog was town or scum, you were more interested in your bonus power. I was thinking that you might be indie, reasoning that town!you would want to hit mafia, and mafia!you would want to at least appear that you wanted to hit mafia. Now on D4 you are voting for me for a reason you can’t explain, so tomorrow you are going to talk it out with Wisp and see if you can come up with another reason that you can explain.
Yeah well I wasn’t the only player scum reading Azrael.
I gave reasons for my votes for Azrael D2 and D3, what were you expecting me to do for a “real push”? Azreal was being pushed by other players, I added my own reasons that pinged me from my reads when I felt I had something to add, and didn’t feel the need to quote every post I agreed with and add “+1” at the end.
So your issue with me is that I’m scum reading and pushing you?
I don’t know why WakeMeUp did not use it N1.
I didn’t use it N2 because I was reluctant to spend that much Vit until I understood the game a little better.
N3 I targeted Tammy because, as has been said many times, she is being strongly town read by many players.
I want you to explain your given reason for voting for me when you voted for me. I don’t want you to go back and look for different reasons now that you have been asked to justify your vote.
Can you explain your reason? Fourth request.
What do you mean exact duplicates? You didn’t even read Killjoy’s post. You just saw an opportunity and jumped on it.
The point is that you don’t need to find a wolf to win. You just need the yeet to be anyone besides you.
I currently suspect Anak and Cuthalion. I read the articles Azrael posted, I do not believe he is an idiot. I think he would have claimed the information he had on Anak’s role, if Anak is being truthful about his role.
Ok. Am I scummy or is this just OMGUS?
Cuth did not skill me.
I don’t know, I will ask the mod.
Sorry so brief, I did not have an opportunity for a reread yet, I ended up working all day (unplanned).
Wisp’s lack of thought (rereading the claims, or thinking about the odds of duplicate roles) and his vote makes me feel that he has moved from trying to figure out the game to just trying to get through the day.
Uh. How many years have you two been playing mafia?
Vote: Wisp
You're not trying to help town anymore.