- Jack_from_NC
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Member for 15 years and 10 months
Last active Thu, Mar, 31 2016 07:05:08
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Feb 4, 2014Jack_from_NC posted a message on Launch Giveaway!I absolutely love Sharuum. If the fact I've attempted to keep an active "primer" for her open and the fact I've played her for over 5 years says nothing else, she's undoubtedly my favorite card. She, simply put, does EVERYTHING.Posted in: Announcements
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I hate people who assume competitive play is the only way to enjoy EDH. This is a format with an entirely subjective, meta specific ban list, tournament structure and organization. Get your head out of your ass. Or better yet, sell your cards. You're the cancer killing everything we love, and it makes me want to murder everyone you love while you watch.
I hate going to GPs and finding pick-up games with CMDR players, then getting subjected to fourty-five minute lectures on how "I don't think you should get away with that!" while they're trying to pull of Tefari+Knowledge Pool. You know what? Sure. I do dirty things in games because the format allows them to happen. If you're going to do them as well, expect equal treatment, moron.
That being said, I hate pick up games for all of the above reasons and more.
I hate this forum. I hate most CMDR forums, because it's an endless **** fest of **** posting from ****ty people with zero comprehension of context. If the bubonic plague suddenly wiped a third of you from existence, the world would truly suffer nothing from your death.
I hate people who feel victimized because they're cmdr players, either because WoTC found the format profitable and are raining on their hipster parade, or because people view a casual format with a more joyous light. I want to toss these kinds of people into a wood chipper, along with their irony.
I hate people who are completely incapable of making functional comparisons between cards. Sylvian Primordial isn't Primeval Titan, you ignorant ****s, and it never will be. Stop making this ****ty thread and other threads like it.
But most of all, I hate myself.
Chances are actually pretty significant we ran into each other that day then!
I'm aware that the tournament system was going to be a bit wonky. The TO actually approached me after round 1, and I flat out told him I expected things would be awkward, but if they tightened up (and changes were communicated clearly), I would most certainly return again. I think were my main problem came from was the lack of cohesiveness, something which can be ironed out in the long term with open help from the player base and TO-something which shouldn't be too much of a problem.
The community was however quite welcoming, and everyone seemed really polite. I will admit, I'm horribly socially awkward (the fact I've both reproduced and done a podcast for several years still surprises me), and being "new" at the venue didn't help matters. But your players were mostly great, and welcoming. That was a big plus for me, and my friends.
I was incredibly apprehensive about coming to the event. And I was surprised, both in good and negative ways. I likely will not be able to make it to the December 20th event, but may return for the January 7th event if my schedule permits. If not, if you'd not mind PMing me with any/all updates, I'd really appreciate it. I've a decent group of people to play CMDR with here, but I'm all for expanding my horizons.
So, a few of you might have seen my thread last week about the EDH "tournament", which was happening over this weekend, at a store one hour from my location. A few of you might also note that I was slightly agitated with the seeming lack of organization the TO had. I promised a report, if things proved interesting or note worthy.
Oh, did they ever.
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The store was The Tangled Web, in Spartenberg, NC. They propositioned having a CMDR tournament on Dec. 7th with the following announcement:
Recommendations/Suggestions for our EDH/Commander tournament. This is a casual, FUN format. Please don't bring combo decks or infinite turn/mana decks - they kill the fun of this format. You can bring whatever deck you choose as long as it is format-legal, but don't be 'that guy'. I am reserving the right to distribute prizes for this particular tournament as I see fit. What this means specifically is that if someone with a not-fun, combo deck wins the tournament, they will likely receive very little in the way of prize payout...very little...
This was all the detail that was given. It seemed rather vague, so Weds of last week I called the store and asked to speak to the TO. In a roundabout way, he told me that the tournament was going to be divided into 4 man pods, the tournaments started at 1, and would go on until he was able to determine a top 8/6 structure. He emphasised that the tournament was to be as modular as possible to accomodate the needs of the community. That was an idea I could get behind, so I put my cynacism and concern aside and prepped for the tournament.
I ended up taking Krenko, Karador, and Sharuum. Admittenly, I probably could have made some changes to the decks (and realized later I should), as they were tuned to my particular metagame, and I was going in to another completely blind. But I simply ran out of time, and took the decks as-is.
My friends and I got there around 12 o'clock. The crowd started piling in. Because we were outsiders, no one really talked to us, but the few who did come up were very jovial and polite. Things really started to look up from there.
Then the TO announced the rules.
Before I go any further, I would like to say I don't personally hold the TO or the community at fault. The TO genuinely seemed interested in promoting a fun atmosphere, and the community (when they warmed up to us), seemed a fun crowd. However, I do hold the communication and lack of specifics at fault-here's why.
The TO told us we'd be broken up into 4 or 5 man pods, with seating determined by random die rolls up at the counter. This meant it was entirely possible you'd see the same people in pods, which didn't seem like a big deal at the time (but became so later). He then announced that they were going to be using a point system-Winner gets three points, second person left in the pod gets two, third one, and last (first person out) zero points. He also told us we'd be able to vote upon Best Plays, "Person most fun to play with" and person "Least fun to play with".
Note those last two in particular.
A person with "Most fun" or "Least fun" have the potential to make 3 or more points depending on pool size. So long as the vote was (mostly) unanimous, it was entirely possible to have more/as many points as the winner if you were fun to play with. Similarly, negative points were assigned if people had no fun playing with you.
At this point, my friends and I were at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage as outsiders because of the negative point ruling. But, being social people, we figured we could "wing it".
The TO then announced he'd really like it if people shied away from Infinite combos. He didn't explicitly say NOT to do them, but still. We were also allowed to use different decks throughout the tournament, which was nice.
Round one started. I was in a pool with an Esper Precon, Karador, Grixis Goodstuff, Something Something Bant and my Sharuum build. My build of Sharuum is rather non-interactive, so I held very little board presence and was considered a non-threat. However, this backfired on me when Underworld Cerebrus got played, alongside similar cards, and I failed to draw answers, putting me in a round of draw-go. I eventually died to Avenger of Zendikar tokens.
Lesson Learned: Hrm, spot removal. So that's a thing I might want to run more of.
The pod I was pitted in, despite my loss, was composed of less-than-blowout decks. I decided to tone it down and play another deck instead, and possibly interact with the table some more. I grabbed krenko next, and sat down in a pod with Prosh, Maelstorm Wanderer, and Endric, Spymaster of trent. This game was a lot more fun, as we were all cracking jokes the entire time. My favorite moment was when the Maelstorm Wanderer player was going to bite it unless he top-decked a win con immeadiately. I looked over at him and said "Hey man, I believe in you."
He drew his top card, and his eyes went wide. He turned to me and said "Dude! You made it happen!", showing me a Craterhoof Behemoth. I cackled as he cast the card, and swung for lethal on all of us.
Lesson Learned: Never ever believe in the heart of other people's cards. Not even once.
Round three is where things got unfortunately VERY sticky.
After round 2, the TO came out and announced that he didn't want people to hold back, that even though he wanted us all to have fun, if we had the combo in our hand, "Just pull the trigger". This was entirely countering the feel of the tournament, but I shrugged my shoulders and decided to do just that. During round 1, I had actually had an infinite Turns combo ready, but had held off. My friend had done a similar thing with his Geth list, and had resisted using infinite mana. We found out we were both in round 3 together, and I decided to bring Karador to the table against Geth, Savra, and the esper pre-con guy from round one.
I had set up a loop with Reveilark, Saffi and Karmic guide, though I wasn't recurring anything other than the cards themselves, nor was I gaining any advantage off of it. I figured I'd start dumping creatures to the GY soon enough. The Savra player looked over and said, "Dude, that's an infinite loop."
I looked up, and said "Actually, no it's not. I'm staking the triggers accordingly during my upkeeps to allow it to happen. All it takes is someone removing one of the creatures, from either my GY or the field."
Savra player said "But you're doing it every turn."
"Yes, I am, but 'infinite' denotes having it happen all at once. 'Going off', as people say. I'm stacking effects, once per turn, during my upkeep, and gaining zero advantage right now."
Savra player scowled. Esper Pre-con guy played Toxic Deluge, thus killing my entire "combo" all at once. When Savra Guy's turn came around, he played Rise of the Dark Realms, grabbed all my creatures, and proceeded to do the exact same "combo" without a qualm. I laughed at this, and pretty hard at that.
My friend ended the game by going with infinite mana, and casting Exsanguinate. Something the TO had implied we should "pull the trigger" upon. Savra player scowls again, packs up and walks away to go talk to the TO.
Later, I found out my friend and I had both received negative points for being "the worst people" at the table. We started a pick-up game after that, but eventually stopped to go get food and decided to go home. As my friends and I were talking, I found out similar things had happened to them, with the TO often siding with the regulars at the store. While I expected something like this to happen, I didn't expect much more than possibly "negative points" for being outsiders. Apparently, one ruling by the TO affected the entirety of my friend's pods, as he was consistently paired with someone the ruling was made on.
Lesson Learned: My "fun" is only as "fun" as you allow it to be, but your "fun" is perfectly okay. Also, community affects everything.
While I won't say I had a bad time, having a point system which could be affected by personal opinion, along with giving contradictory statements to the point of the tournament AND leaving it largely up to the community (which will never form a cohesive opinion of "fun") made for an awkward experience. My friend who played geth actually won both his rounds, but due to how he won, he recieved several negative points, making any social interaction he had completely worthless, along with the win. Allowing people to vote for "worst person at the table", by virtue of being a subjective metric, makes working towards building community relations, winning or doing anything else other than sitting there rather difficult.
Pretty much all day long, every time my friends and I talked, they mentioned going back to their apartment and finishing the case of beer in the fridge. Even when they had good games. Being outsiders in an unknown meta with awkward organization made for a negative play experience.
Pros of the Trip: I realized Sharuum needs to run Revoke Existence or a similar effect.
Negatives of the trip: We just as easily could have stayed home and had a much better time.
So there you have it.
They function completely differently ,and without seeing your list or any additional details, my vote goes to Ooze simply because it has additional functionally, and a function that matters in this format a great deal.
Land destruction in any form is a part of the game. It doesn't matter if it's basic or non-basic, targeted or otherwise. It's a part of the game, it exists, and everyone is going to face it at some point, whether they're the pilot behind it or not.
LD is the only thing that keeps certain strategies in check. It's also the easiest way to lock someone out of the game, which can be constrewed as dirty.
The degrees by which it's actually "dirty" vary. People might throw their arms up when you cast Ruination, but won't mind when you Reap and Sow someone's cradle.
Personally, if we're using demoralization as a measure of "dirty"-ness, outright mana denial ala Rising Waters, Winter Orb and others is much worse than any LD spell. At least with LD you've still got your mana rocks. Outright denial bogs the game down to a crawl and genuinely makes it unfun for everyone-except the pilot behind it, who (if they're smart) can untap during their turn.
LD isn't bad by a wide margin when you compare it to pure denial.
Would you accept "I'm bored, and this interests me for the moment?"
It's not them.
I sincerely dislike lazy people.
You guys ask if this is a paid event. Fancy that, because I've not the slightest idea either. Nor do I know what time it starts. There have been no additional details given on the store's page, nor does it appear there WILL be any additional details given, despite a few people asking. I'm going to call the shop later today and ask for the guy who wrote the post personally.
I certainly don't mind coughing up 5 bucks, and expect it (I know how thin the margins are on running a comic store). If it's anything more, my attendance will be all the more unlikely.
As for the original posting:
I've no problem with the store wanting to establish an EDH community, nor do I have a problem with people wanting to enjoy themselves. But with this announcement being the ONLY details given (and slovenly at that), I'm understandably agitated and confused. No matter how you slice it, "fun" is an extremely subjective metric, and leaving things up to a community of players who are also using "fun" as a metric while asking "that guy" not to show up is akin to saying there is a witch poisoning the grain in Salem, MA. It's asking for trouble while reducing the overall level of responsibility on the shop keeper, and becomes a poor reflection of both the shop keeper/TO and community.
It's a bigger problem than just not getting to play an archetype I want. It has the possibility to screw over this event before it even starts, and it's all because someone couldn't be bothered to type up a proper announcement detailing an event they're hosting (possibly for profit, but who the **** knows) in less than a week. Without knowing, with hard details, how the games are going to be played (social atmosphere? Constructed 1v1 grinding?), it makes any choice-including participating at all, whatsoever-a gamble.
The announcement was less than a paragraph and probably took minutes to type. A more detailed announcement would have taken...what? thirty minutes, maybe?
That's why I'm upset. Because other people are too ****ing lazy to attempt basic good business/advertising practices, and do so without realizing what they're doing to themselves and other people.
I've been talking to some friends. Chances are significant I'm going (simply because, if all else fails, we'll hang out at a friends house and play CMDR anyways). I've decided I'm just going to run with what I have and see how things go. Sharuum has had a whopping 5 card adjustments I'd love to see in practice. Karador is still reasonably fair, if dream crushing.
And Krenko. Well, Krenko is a mother ****er. No way to really describe him otherwise. About the only thing he's scared of is pithing needle.
Those are the three primary decks I've been working on. Sharuum is combo, but without knowing what the meta is like, I'm considering her artifact-centric build "fair" (I hate Kataki. I hate Kataki so, so much). Krenko can be stopped in a variety of ways. And Karador dies to GY removal.
I will likely post a report next monday about how it went, if I remember to.
But before I go, here's a gem for you people from the page discussing the tournament:
Will any proxys be allowed i only play one its gaias cradle
SOUNDS LIKE A WINRAR CROWD GUISE.
By that thought process, they'd do it with Nekusar, too.
"No fast mana decks plz"
But winning is "fun" for me.
See why this entire announcement is problematic?
I've no money in my wallet, but if I did, I'd throw it all at you.
Recommendations/Suggestions for our EDH/Commander tournament. This is a casual, FUN format. Please don't bring combo decks or infinite turn/mana decks - they kill the fun of this format. You can bring whatever deck you choose as long as it is format-legal, but don't be 'that guy'. I am reserving the right to distribute prizes for this particular tournament as I see fit. What this means specifically is that if someone with a not-fun, combo deck wins the tournament, they will likely receive very little in the way of prize payout...very little...
Naturally, this announcement raises a couple of concerns for me. One, "fun" is an incredibly subjective metric to use on anything regarding gaming. Two, "That guy" is also subjective, and is a play-group by play group term. Three, the addition of prize support, in any form, already boosts the overall level of competition in my opinion. People are going to bring the best decks they can because they'll be happy to win ANYTHING.
Four, this add contradicts itself within a few sentences, of "bring whatever you want" becoming "Please don't play combo decks, fast mana decks, decks we personally disagree with, or that could possibly win through perfectly legal interactions".
I'm on the fence about attending this event. Mostly because it seems so completely disorganized that anything I get out of it personally-be it a good time, or prize support-is left in question, as I've never played at this store before.
My current deck choices are :
1. Sharuum
2. Krenko
3. Karador
4. Jund Precon
5. Nekusar
Of the 5, Nekusar seems the most fair, as it doesn't pack any explicit combos, but wins by punishing people for drawing cards-which they draw en-masse. Krenko wins through damage, but is ****ing stupid at times as well. Karador has no combos, is weak to GY hate, but wins by blowing up lands/permanents.
And sharuum is my big bad kitty cat.
So what do I do? Not go? Build a new deck?