Having been in MTG content production for 5+ years, and after several hundred episodes of Monday Night Magic, with countless guest appearances elsewhere, I can say this in full faith:
Most MTG podcasts are garbage. They are.
People don't want to put the effort into making a good cast, because dicking around with their friends on the mic is too easy/fun. So here's my recommendation-find a cast that has hosts you can stand. Listen to that religiously. /fin.
Otherwise, you're going to be constantly shifting through garbage, looking for one piece of gold.
Hilariously enough, I've been doing this for years. I've got 4 decks at any one time, with a maximum of five. The great part about being a "walking metagame" is that you can decide how well the decks interact with each other. I've a fairly balanced meta-Sharuum, Teysa stax, Bosh mana denial, Isamaru stompy, and Karametra-all of which have "just in time" answers for each other. It's fun, and never once has a game felt unbalanced.
personally, I found Vampires to be the weaker tribe. They have more lords, but less recursion, and playing olivia will limit you to B-based card draw, which has only started improving recently. Grimgrin doesn't have flyers, but gives you access to better recursion, guys that can come back from the GY more frequently, and more importantly, Blue based draw.
Oh, and extra turns.
While I won't be one to argue flavor, I think waves of zombies continously attacking the opponent, with time running out for them, is infinitely more interesting than a bunch of blood-sucking pretty boys attempting death from above.
Also, you seem to have forgotten that Archetype of Imagination and Wonder exist, effectively negating your flying issue.
We used 30 point life totals for a while to some surprising results.
it gave SOME aggro archetypes (fast tribal builds, such as goblins/elves) some leverage, but essentially put everyone on a faster clock. So what did the ramp/combo players do?
They used denser mana rocks, better ramp, and still won.
I think for something like this to succeed, you've either got to have a smaller group or access to the best cards in aggro. It's not a bad idea, but what you're accomplishing is forcing EVERYONE to move that much faster. This is before we even consider control decks simply using more removal and STILL winning.
Hey guys.
Well, do to an Engineered Plague sweeping my house (along with a real Cold Snap in the weather), I was unable to get additional testing in. Sorry. Hopefully this weekend will prove more fruitful-I'm going to need it after a week full of writing college papers.
However, I would like to add something really quick-
my group is considering using the French Banlist for EDH, if we're able to maintain our current traffic. While I won't be adjusting my sharuum list in the slightest UNLESS this happens, it raises a very valid curiosity I have.
We've several different collections of Sharuum builds out there. While most focus on combo, I'm curious to see what success, if any, others have had with different avenues. I've seen everything from General Damage centric builds to artifact control.
I would REALLY like to have a look at these lists, possibly contact their creators and ask their permission to add them to the OP.
If you guys know of any right off the top of your head, I'm wanting links ASAP.
I feel like everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle.
Blue based decks thrive due to deck manipulation and card draw. They just do it better, in greater numbers, and usually for cheaper than other colors. If you really want to cripple them, this means either attacking that or limiting their resources that make it happen, which is context sensitive. And, shamefully for you, means utilizing creatures in WB.
There are plenty of W hatebears, and a few cards that enable discard/card draw punishment in B (underworld dreams), But would require building your deck JUST to combat the blue mages. Which runs the risk of getting you curb stomped in another meta.
Edit:
Blowing up their mana base is totally a thing you could try.
I should state I've not had really testing with the card, but here's the thing-anything that can pull lands from your deck, in multiple numbers, is usually a very good thing. Land Tax and Endless Horizons, even being removal bait, still earn their keep in any deck that can afford them. Thus, I'm confident scope can be good in colors that lack traditional basic land ramp without even testing it.
When people talk deck thinning, they tend to think of it in terms of running additional fetches, yadda yadda. Where cards like scope shine is that they can do this, en masse, enable you, and alter things you don't like seeing when you Top or Crystal Ball/Scroll Rack.
Being resuable with Trading Post/Academy ruins just makes my mouth water.
The problem with Diabolic Intent is that, despite it's additional requirement, there's next to no reason to run it unless you just absolutely want to. You don't want Metamoprh or others on the field unless you're trying to win.
If you've already played metamorph, you can already get additional value out of him via Trading Post, Forgemaster and others. Diabolic Intent is just icing on the cake.
Even as a tutor, Diabolic intent lags behind Enlightened Tutor, Fabricate and others. There are going to be few times you really need an additional Demonic Tutor. And even given the amount of tokens we're producing, there ARE going to be times when you don't have a creature to sacrifice, and you'll just have a dead card in your hand. And those times are going to make you wish you'd just run Beseech The Queen, Diabolic Tutor, Fabricate, Demonic Collusion instead.
Or a library manipulation card.
It's not bad. But we can do better.
I should have some testing in this weekend.
EDIT: On Cavern of Souls:
I actually tested the card for a while. In metas dense with countermagic, it seems to work fine, because you REALLY want to win against those decks before they reach critical mass. However, Sharuum is one of those decks with so much recursion that counter spells aren't that scary. I fear only Hinder and Spell Crumble when I'm attempting the Bitter Ordeal combo. I tend to play into people's counter spells, and use cards like Orim's Chant when I need to win.
Cavern isn't bad, and in more sphinx focused builds, I could definitely see the advantage (Seriously, check how many sphinxes work well with this deck!). During my testing, I came to realize Orim's Chant was more versatile. This is a very meta-specific question.
You guys may have already covered this and if so then my apologies, but what are folks thoughts on krark-clan ironworks? I have been running it and its been stellar.
It's not bad, and in builds with a LOT more sac interaction, it works. Ideally, it's coming down turn 3-4 and putting you in the victory lane the next turn. In builds with a heavy top end, Saccing Wurmcoil engine, thopter tokens or other kitty toys that can be recurred with salvaging station allows your deck's top end to see play a lot sooner.
If you're running that many tutors already, I'm kinda surprised you have a hard time getting it to bust off. Have you considered running a regular Card Draw engine instead? Also, deck manipulation is vital in combo decks-if you're not already running them, Top, Crystal ball and several other budget options that I can't think of can help dig deep enough to grab pieces when you need them. Sooth Saying should be available in most uncommon bins, and is something several people should try out, anyways.
As for the Mana Crypt, there's no real replacement for it-it's a second sol ring, and it's nuts. it's not however absolutely vital to the operation of the deck in any respects whatsoever. Everflowing Chalice is, at the least, something worthy of consideration if you absolutely need another mana rock, as is Lotus Petal/Bloom.
I actually tried out Snapcaster Mage, and found myself liking Elixir of Immortality better. It's 1 CMC, an artifact, and shuffles itself in. It allows you to protect your own GY from harm, get back necessary effects/tutors, and in most builds, will have more relevant targets than SM. Not saying that SM is bad, but he relies on you having "good" targets in your GY-which will either be removal or tutors, and in most IRL cases, will be artifacts instead.
Hey guys, been a crazy week, but here are my thoughts on the cards folks have asked about.
Intuition-This is, quite possibly, the most important tutor in the deck outside of Artificer's Intuition. The reason I say this is, with a properly built deck, it gives your opponent's the illusion of choice-in reality, you should be able to either recur any card pitched, or make the choice outright irrelevant.
When I cast it, my typical stack goes like this:
Academy Ruins, Crucible of Worlds, Random Win con I have the mana for (mindslaver, Magister Sphinx, SotM/Thopter Foundry, Time Sieve/ Thopter Production Flying Machine).
Because with a pick like this, there's nothing I can't get back with the choice itself, Sharuum or one of the other recursion engines like Trading Post. It resolves, you make a proper choice, you win. It's that simple, and I recommend picking one up if you're serious about making the deck as cut-throat as possible.
Dire Undercurrents:
DU is a really cool card that can build a tremendous amount of advantage.
It's main weakness, however, is it's card type-it's an enchantment, and save for Open the Vaults or similar cards, it's going to be difficult to recur when you want it to go off. In a less refined build, I could see this card giving significant leverage. I've tested it myself, but my build has been so tight and creature light that I often found myself wanting to do something more immeadiate for 5 mana. For what it's worth, I would run Karn or a similar, over-reaching aid rather than this.
Armageddon:
here's the thing with mass LD-it's only good after you've secured significant board position, or ramp rules your meta and you've got to keep such decks in check. In both cases, Armageddon or similar effects help ensure victory by forcing everyone without mana rocks to build up affects again.
However, it paints an ENORMOUS target on your head. People objectively hate LD more than any other "no-fun" effect. And as a metagame matures, more and more people are either going to be able to recover swiftly, or maintain board effects that actually perpetuate their grip indefinately.
Armageddon is good when it's not expected, or when the meta deems it. Otherwise, you run a HUGE risk of becoming everyone's punching bag. if you're the Sharuum player, there's a high chance that's already going to happen anyways.
Fetchlands:
Disregard the deck thinning argument. The real power of fetches comes from being able to reset the top of your deck. Ever activate Top, Crystal Ball, Scroll rack and find yourself frowning? Welcome to fetches, which for a single life will make those cards go away. Even mediocre ones, such as the panoramas or Terromorphic Expanse/Evolving Wilds are fine for this purpose.
These decks are viable if you have a wallet to make it happen, as they lag significantly behind other decks in terms of early-board presence, but make up for it with a VERY top heavy mid-late game. They're tons of fun, but lose out on several cards that aid in what they're trying to accomplish. You end up spending a lot of money to make a lot of mana which only ends up doing a few things.
Hey so I'm almost done putting a Sharuum together and I just want to make sure I am able to explain the combos correctly when I go to pull them off so I don't get screwed: With the phyrexian metamorph and sharuum combo does metamorph have to be in the GY or can you cast him from your hand with Sharuum on the Battlefield? I've heard that the legend rule takes place before the targeted ability of sharuum to return an artifact therefore meaning you could cast metamorph from your hand sac sharuum and then target sharuum with the metamorph? same thing for sculpting steel? as per the lotus bloom infinite mana combo, with the other cards listed in the combo section here, can someone explain how that makes infinite mana? I wasn't around when suspend was a thing so I'm not 100% on all it's tricks and rules. Thanks for the help really appreciate it!
There's a complete explanation for all combos in the OP of this thread, but here goes:
Metamorph has to be in the GY.
Cast sharuum, targeting Metamorph OR sculpting steel.
They come into play, targeting sharuum. PUT THE ABILITY ON THE STACK.
Let sculpting steel/Metamorph die. Let the ability RESOLVE.
Grab it, copying sharuum, but the ability ON THE STACK AGAIN.
Repeat the above however many times you want to build up a suitable gravestorm trigger, Disciple of the Vault triggers.
As for the infinite combo trigger, this is more rare:
With the above combo going, simply sac lotus bloom/petal for 3 mana a turn, and recur it via Salvaging station. Additionally, with Lotus Bloom and Executioner's capsule, you can basically create a 1-sided wrath effect if Salvaging Station is in play.
I absolutely love Sharuum. If the fact I've attempted to keep an active "primer" for her open and the fact I've played her for over 5 years says nothing else, she's undoubtedly my favorite card. She, simply put, does EVERYTHING.
Most MTG podcasts are garbage. They are.
People don't want to put the effort into making a good cast, because dicking around with their friends on the mic is too easy/fun. So here's my recommendation-find a cast that has hosts you can stand. Listen to that religiously. /fin.
Otherwise, you're going to be constantly shifting through garbage, looking for one piece of gold.
Sydri/Oloro for tri. Wynden for bi.
Oh, and extra turns.
While I won't be one to argue flavor, I think waves of zombies continously attacking the opponent, with time running out for them, is infinitely more interesting than a bunch of blood-sucking pretty boys attempting death from above.
Also, you seem to have forgotten that Archetype of Imagination and Wonder exist, effectively negating your flying issue.
it gave SOME aggro archetypes (fast tribal builds, such as goblins/elves) some leverage, but essentially put everyone on a faster clock. So what did the ramp/combo players do?
They used denser mana rocks, better ramp, and still won.
I think for something like this to succeed, you've either got to have a smaller group or access to the best cards in aggro. It's not a bad idea, but what you're accomplishing is forcing EVERYONE to move that much faster. This is before we even consider control decks simply using more removal and STILL winning.
It's a band-aid to a meta-sensitive problem.
Well, do to an Engineered Plague sweeping my house (along with a real Cold Snap in the weather), I was unable to get additional testing in. Sorry. Hopefully this weekend will prove more fruitful-I'm going to need it after a week full of writing college papers.
However, I would like to add something really quick-
my group is considering using the French Banlist for EDH, if we're able to maintain our current traffic. While I won't be adjusting my sharuum list in the slightest UNLESS this happens, it raises a very valid curiosity I have.
We've several different collections of Sharuum builds out there. While most focus on combo, I'm curious to see what success, if any, others have had with different avenues. I've seen everything from General Damage centric builds to artifact control.
I would REALLY like to have a look at these lists, possibly contact their creators and ask their permission to add them to the OP.
If you guys know of any right off the top of your head, I'm wanting links ASAP.
Love it, love it more because it's free.
Wanring for inappropriate language. We probably dont need to go there. -ISB
Blue based decks thrive due to deck manipulation and card draw. They just do it better, in greater numbers, and usually for cheaper than other colors. If you really want to cripple them, this means either attacking that or limiting their resources that make it happen, which is context sensitive. And, shamefully for you, means utilizing creatures in WB.
There are plenty of W hatebears, and a few cards that enable discard/card draw punishment in B (underworld dreams), But would require building your deck JUST to combat the blue mages. Which runs the risk of getting you curb stomped in another meta.
Edit:
Blowing up their mana base is totally a thing you could try.
I should state I've not had really testing with the card, but here's the thing-anything that can pull lands from your deck, in multiple numbers, is usually a very good thing. Land Tax and Endless Horizons, even being removal bait, still earn their keep in any deck that can afford them. Thus, I'm confident scope can be good in colors that lack traditional basic land ramp without even testing it.
When people talk deck thinning, they tend to think of it in terms of running additional fetches, yadda yadda. Where cards like scope shine is that they can do this, en masse, enable you, and alter things you don't like seeing when you Top or Crystal Ball/Scroll Rack.
Being resuable with Trading Post/Academy ruins just makes my mouth water.
If you've already played metamorph, you can already get additional value out of him via Trading Post, Forgemaster and others. Diabolic Intent is just icing on the cake.
Even as a tutor, Diabolic intent lags behind Enlightened Tutor, Fabricate and others. There are going to be few times you really need an additional Demonic Tutor. And even given the amount of tokens we're producing, there ARE going to be times when you don't have a creature to sacrifice, and you'll just have a dead card in your hand. And those times are going to make you wish you'd just run Beseech The Queen, Diabolic Tutor, Fabricate, Demonic Collusion instead.
Or a library manipulation card.
It's not bad. But we can do better.
I should have some testing in this weekend.
EDIT: On Cavern of Souls:
I actually tested the card for a while. In metas dense with countermagic, it seems to work fine, because you REALLY want to win against those decks before they reach critical mass. However, Sharuum is one of those decks with so much recursion that counter spells aren't that scary. I fear only Hinder and Spell Crumble when I'm attempting the Bitter Ordeal combo. I tend to play into people's counter spells, and use cards like Orim's Chant when I need to win.
Cavern isn't bad, and in more sphinx focused builds, I could definitely see the advantage (Seriously, check how many sphinxes work well with this deck!). During my testing, I came to realize Orim's Chant was more versatile. This is a very meta-specific question.
It's not bad, and in builds with a LOT more sac interaction, it works. Ideally, it's coming down turn 3-4 and putting you in the victory lane the next turn. In builds with a heavy top end, Saccing Wurmcoil engine, thopter tokens or other kitty toys that can be recurred with salvaging station allows your deck's top end to see play a lot sooner.
I tested it, and ended up dropping it later.
If you're running that many tutors already, I'm kinda surprised you have a hard time getting it to bust off. Have you considered running a regular Card Draw engine instead? Also, deck manipulation is vital in combo decks-if you're not already running them, Top, Crystal ball and several other budget options that I can't think of can help dig deep enough to grab pieces when you need them. Sooth Saying should be available in most uncommon bins, and is something several people should try out, anyways.
As for the Mana Crypt, there's no real replacement for it-it's a second sol ring, and it's nuts. it's not however absolutely vital to the operation of the deck in any respects whatsoever. Everflowing Chalice is, at the least, something worthy of consideration if you absolutely need another mana rock, as is Lotus Petal/Bloom.
I actually tried out Snapcaster Mage, and found myself liking Elixir of Immortality better. It's 1 CMC, an artifact, and shuffles itself in. It allows you to protect your own GY from harm, get back necessary effects/tutors, and in most builds, will have more relevant targets than SM. Not saying that SM is bad, but he relies on you having "good" targets in your GY-which will either be removal or tutors, and in most IRL cases, will be artifacts instead.
Intuition-This is, quite possibly, the most important tutor in the deck outside of Artificer's Intuition. The reason I say this is, with a properly built deck, it gives your opponent's the illusion of choice-in reality, you should be able to either recur any card pitched, or make the choice outright irrelevant.
When I cast it, my typical stack goes like this:
Academy Ruins, Crucible of Worlds, Random Win con I have the mana for (mindslaver, Magister Sphinx, SotM/Thopter Foundry, Time Sieve/ Thopter Production Flying Machine).
Because with a pick like this, there's nothing I can't get back with the choice itself, Sharuum or one of the other recursion engines like Trading Post. It resolves, you make a proper choice, you win. It's that simple, and I recommend picking one up if you're serious about making the deck as cut-throat as possible.
Dire Undercurrents:
DU is a really cool card that can build a tremendous amount of advantage.
It's main weakness, however, is it's card type-it's an enchantment, and save for Open the Vaults or similar cards, it's going to be difficult to recur when you want it to go off. In a less refined build, I could see this card giving significant leverage. I've tested it myself, but my build has been so tight and creature light that I often found myself wanting to do something more immeadiate for 5 mana. For what it's worth, I would run Karn or a similar, over-reaching aid rather than this.
Armageddon:
here's the thing with mass LD-it's only good after you've secured significant board position, or ramp rules your meta and you've got to keep such decks in check. In both cases, Armageddon or similar effects help ensure victory by forcing everyone without mana rocks to build up affects again.
However, it paints an ENORMOUS target on your head. People objectively hate LD more than any other "no-fun" effect. And as a metagame matures, more and more people are either going to be able to recover swiftly, or maintain board effects that actually perpetuate their grip indefinately.
Armageddon is good when it's not expected, or when the meta deems it. Otherwise, you run a HUGE risk of becoming everyone's punching bag. if you're the Sharuum player, there's a high chance that's already going to happen anyways.
Fetchlands:
Disregard the deck thinning argument. The real power of fetches comes from being able to reset the top of your deck. Ever activate Top, Crystal Ball, Scroll rack and find yourself frowning? Welcome to fetches, which for a single life will make those cards go away. Even mediocre ones, such as the panoramas or Terromorphic Expanse/Evolving Wilds are fine for this purpose.
There's a complete explanation for all combos in the OP of this thread, but here goes:
Metamorph has to be in the GY.
Cast sharuum, targeting Metamorph OR sculpting steel.
They come into play, targeting sharuum. PUT THE ABILITY ON THE STACK.
Let sculpting steel/Metamorph die. Let the ability RESOLVE.
Grab it, copying sharuum, but the ability ON THE STACK AGAIN.
Repeat the above however many times you want to build up a suitable gravestorm trigger, Disciple of the Vault triggers.
As for the infinite combo trigger, this is more rare:
With the above combo going, simply sac lotus bloom/petal for 3 mana a turn, and recur it via Salvaging station. Additionally, with Lotus Bloom and Executioner's capsule, you can basically create a 1-sided wrath effect if Salvaging Station is in play.