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  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Oh, is yeet a replace for lynch because lynch is considered probo these days? That makes since, I didn't pick up on that.

    I totally thought we had more time. But I guess this is happening now. Anyway...I'm Doc(the dwarf, not the role) and I am a friendly neighbor. Each night I can target a player and that player will be informed that I am town.

    I've got more to say, but I wanted to get that out first.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Vote ZDS

    Just realized I never revoted.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    Crop circles should probably claim at this point btw
    I'm pretty sure I'm at 3 votes right now so...um, no.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
    @CC It's out of topic, but FYI, you had a legacy that remained after you faded away. I saw a few new players here (back then) use the word "honestly" as a scum-tell without themselves knowing they were parroting an argument you had made in a game some time before (at least I think it was you). Obligatory Link
    Yeah, that was me. I was being coy when I said I didn't remember. I'm still suspicious when people say "honestly" irl apropos of nothing. It's not as telling as when people use the word "categorically" when denying a public scandal, but still.
    Quote from Highroller »
    Still, nowhere near as terrible a decision as letting Vecna_Reborn be in charge.
    Yeah I really never understood how that happened. Facepalm

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I wish to know @CC why DK would deserve a vote for this without any question and without engaging with him in an interaction, and why, when i subbed in you unvoted in P#355? Do you think a sub is changing AI?
    The vote was to apply pressure and see his reaction. Since I'm not gonna get to see his reaction, there's no point in leaving the vote.

    Quote from WMU(BIGG) »
    Also, what impression do you have about your wagon I posted above and why didn't you show much stress for being voted?
    I did't show stress because I'm not stressed. I really think people are misinterpreting my vote on ZDS as an OMGUS vote and taking it as defensiveness. I voted for ZDS because I couldn't follow his logic. See here:
    Quote from ZDS when voting me »
    And no the irony of accusing him of doing what he's accusing Proph of doing is not lost on me. But there's my second issue with this post: whereas Proph is experimenting by looking for lurkers too early and is ******* up as a result, CC hides carefully in a dark corner and seems to mostly focus on not ******* up. To bring back the digestive track, Proph had guts, CC has none.
    Quote from Me Link in response »
    The real difference here is that Proph put a target on half the players in the game for something that obviously isn't actually telling at all. It was clearly too early in the game to start lurker hunting as several of us hadn't even checked in. My accusation was against unjustified bandwagon votes, which is an accusation against just two players and is for a legitimate reason. As opposed to a meaningless accusation against half the town.
    ZDS admits that he's accusing me of the same thing I was accusing Proph of, but he paints it as "hiding in dark corners" (not sure what that's supposed to mean) and says that makes it worse. That doesn't track.

    Let me put it this way: if making "vague and safe non-stances" is telling, why would he go after me and not Proph for the Poppin Bottles(tm)? He acknowledges this contradiction (probably to hang a lantern on it), but that doesn't change the fact that it is a contradiction. This leads me to believe he is inventing the reason for his vote. I would have voted for him regardless of whether he used this logic against me or against someone else. I am not confusing my attack on ZDS as an defense of myself, but I think people are taking it that way.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Unvote since Dk got replaced. I've got a lot I want to respond to, but I'm pressed for time.

    @CropCircles: I couldn't help but notice you didn't take much of a stance on Vaimes in your recent catch up post. Whatcha got on Vaimes?
    Looking back, I think I misread his exchange with Highroller. I thought he was signaling something. My general vibe from him has been leaning town, so I was content to not look into him further, but now I may need to reevaluate.
    Bah

    Unvote

    CC didn't take my obvious bait. It just means that CC isn't obvious scum. Recalibrating...
    Why would you set obvious bait? Confused


    @Ampharos: While I appreciate that you thought my points about Jackrito were good, I disagree that they were better than my points about Dk. I get a vibe of a reluctant mindset from Dk, but I don't really know what to make of Jack. His posts leave me feeling more just kind of incredulous. Which is suspect in it's own right, but my feelings on Dk are more certain.

    Quote from ZDS »
    He gave DK a "Leaning scum read" so him being at the top (and getting the vote) is fine, but he gave JoeTerry a "Reading as mildly questionable" and Jack a "Reading as questionable". Based on CC's own words the order should be Dkings/Jack/JoeTerry, not Dkings/JoeTerry/Jack.
    Yeah I was going back and forth on how I felt about Jack because I don't know what to make of a lot of his posts. I changed the order in my final summary and downgraded him, but I didn't think to adjust that part.

    Quote from ZDS »
    Before anyone says I'm nitpicking, we are talking about someone who analysed the use of the words "but" and "though". Words matter to CropCircles. By the way, did you know a long time ago he single-handedly got the whole community to treat the word "honestly" as a scum-tell? Words matter to CropCircles.
    I honestly don't remember that.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    And then there's Jackrito:

    Early in the game he said this:
    Quote from Jackrito »
    I agree that low posters tend to be scum in most cases, but I did not think of you the type to scum hunt that way normally you towncore up and work backwards.
    But more recently he says:
    Quote from Jackrito »
    DK and JT are too low content to be valid trains just yet imo.
    So I noticed this before remembering that Vaimes had pointed out similar contradictions, in posts #200 and #222. It's really hard to read Jack's opinions as genuine when he keeps contradicting himself like this.

    I also don't like him painting me as "lost and scared." I mean, I know I'm neither of these things and he doesn't site any examples, so it's a little baffling. I'm curious if anyone else is getting that impression from me, because from my perspective it seems like a pretty obviously made up read.

    Also, this stuck out:
    Quote from Jackrito »
    ZDS is in my town pile because of how much better he came off compared to CC if CC flips town I review him. possible they is bussing happening though because both are in bad spots now I think about it their engangement with each other just feels off to a degree.
    Tying our alignments together like this looks like he's setting up to turn on ZDS once I turn flip town. Of course this is completely moot if I'm right about ZDS, but it is still worth noting.

    Reading as questionable.

    ------------------------------

    At this point, I'm putting DK, JoeTerry, and Jack (in that order) as my most suspicious after ZDS. I'm not abandoning the ZDS wagon, but we can always come back to it.

    Unvote, Vote Dkingsland967
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Now, as for Dkingsland967, he didn't post much in the way of content until #213
    Quote from dkingsland967 »
    Anyway, I'm sticking with my vote on Proph for now.

    Main takeaways:

    1) Holding onto my earlier stance that his "Poppin Bottles Theory" post was too tryhard.
    2) He has emphasized one too many times that he's not familiar with the flavor (see more below).
    3) He seems to be asking a lot of softball questions, and I haven't seen much follow-up.
    4) He is doing a fair amount of sucking up to the long-time vets (ZDS, CC mostly)
    5) Weird interactions with Grape on multiple levels. His defense of me and the posting gimmick was... odd?... especially since no one has been listening to Grape. Also, I found it curious he asked if he had ever seen scum!Grape, when Grape was scum in the most recent game Proph hosted.
    I don't agree with his read of Proph, which is fine. But a couple of these don't really seem like tells. I don't see the alleged "sucking up" as telling one way or the other. I don't see how him being unfamiliar with the flavor is anything. I also don't think I would qualify his questions as softball. This list reads as being very contrived.

    Other players of note:

    1. ZDS - didn't love his RVS vote on Grape (which actually looked serious to me), he's been over-zealous in explaining/defending his "gutsy" classification of Rodemy's early posts, way too early vanilla claim, seems to be way too wrapped up in flavor (Proph is going out of his way to ignore stuff like this by saying he's "unfamiliar"). I played in a game with scum!ZDS several years ago (Gatecrash), but his old account must have been deleted because his posts no longer exist in that thread and I'm a little miffed I can't do any comparisons.

    2. Jackrito - more or less /barning Vaimes here. Also, his use of the word "gutsy" in reference to Rodemy in 92 pings just a bit, and his defense of Proph in 174 is bad (but my read on Proph could be clouding my judgment there).

    3. Grapefruit - Weird interactions with Proph, poorly articulated defense of Highroller on page 2 (Vaimes hit him with a good question in 90). I may be personally biased on this though since he tried pushing me D1 for bad reasons in Modern when he was scum and I was town, and a little bit of that is mirrored here (namely downplaying the read as "weak").

    4. Silver - I've only played with him once, but he seems really low presence compared to when he was town in Seasons. That's kinda all I have to say, though.

    Joe Terry almost makes the list because of the RVS self-vote and the super weird Trump stuff, but he has one specific post that is making me hesitant that I'm not going to talk about right now for reasons.
    Every one of these statements comes with a "but" or a "though" qualifier. It's like he's hedging his bets, laying the groundwork to backpedal later if he gets push back. The whole post feels like that. This is indicative of a reluctant mindset. Leaning scum read.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Okay, just finished rereading. Here's what I got.

    I'm skipping ZDS, obviously. I still think he is the most likely to be scum for reasons previously stated. I'm also not posting any thoughts on Vaimes and Highroller. I wrote "something about a bird" in my notes and I think that pretty much sums it up.

    Silver: I get generally good vibes from his posts. One thing that stuck out to me was his coy unjustified vote to see if anyone called him on it. Seems more like a townie type of poking around. Reading town.

    Rodemy: He pushed on ZDS early, which I like. Hasn't really done much else, but with valid reason. No read.

    Prophylaxis: His early lurker push looked like scum trying to look like they are contributing while not adding anything of value, but that's a moot point given both his level of contribution and his push to get others to contribute. Reading town.

    Grapefruit21: I don't get any particular vibe from his posts one way or the other, but I generally agree with his reads. The one exception being his town read of ZDS. Leaning town read.

    Axelrod: Not getting anything one way or the other. One thing I remember about Ax is that I could never read him, so this is pretty unsurprising. No read.

    JoeTerry: His posting of notes is suspect to me. While there are some opinions in there, it's buried in a lot of meaningless recap. When I write notes, I put them in a file so they're easy to add to or edit as I go. That makes sense to me. I don't see what the value of posting them in the thread unless you just want to make sure everyone else knows that you're taking notes. Seems to be prioritizing appearances over functionality or efficiency.

    Also that last bit about getting tunneled seems pretty defeatist and prematurely defensive. "Hope that helps, I doubt it will because you already seem like you're tunneled. It's almost a sure thing that anyone who posts anything substantial like I did to catch up, will be attacked because it's content, content that people can like or dislike."

    Plenty of people are posting content and not taking heat for it. Seems like he's setting up a "this always happens to me" defense while preemptively trying to discredit anyone who would question him.

    That being said, if he does this every game as he says he does than I guess it's a non-tell. It still feels suspect to me, but I'll give it a pass for now. Reading as mildly questionable.

    Gonna split this into a 2nd post.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Well you did refer to me as a living legend.

    Not disagreeing with the sentiment, just saying.

    Currently rereading, but it is late. Will compile my thoughts tomorrow.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    You guys do realize that I made one post of just my initial thoughts and was immediately accused for it, right? Like if I seem defensive, maybe it's because I've had to defend myself.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    kind of just want to poke cropcircles with sticks until he does something relevant
    I'm gonna say to you what I tell all the straight boys that try to poke me with something: don't start something you ain't gonna want to finish.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    If you are town and think ZDS is scum, tell me why his actions come from a dishonest mindset.
    As I said, I think he is inventing reasons to cast suspicion on me. Basically the same thing he did with Highroller. Are you asking me to explain why scum have to invent reasons to cast suspicion?

    Quote from Jackrito »
    If I was going to vote someone atm it would be CC because his posts and stance on ZDS and how it changed are just not making sense to me. His responses to ZDS after his weird as hell vote also match more with the over defensiveness that I was referring to eariler unlike Highroller who looks like he is really scum hunting in his responses. CC looks scared and lost and just doing simple replies like a deer in the headlights. ZDS comes out way ahead in their exchange and considering how much I push ZDS early most games that takes some doing.
    Except I'm not scared or lost.

    Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
    Shrugs

    I can't wait to see your reaction to learning my alignment, whenever it's going to happen. Although I hope you aren't the type who always blames others for your own shortcomings.

    In the meantime you should find a better (more constructive) way to spend your energy than addressing me these walls of text that I'm going to keep dismissing or ignoring.
    I was going to point out that this only makes sense if Highroller is town, but then I remembered that you probably know he's not mafia because he wasn't listed in your role PM.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Quote from Highroller »
    With regards to CropCircles, I don't know who CropCircles is. You say, "back in the day," so I assume this is an alternate account of someone, but I have no clue who it is.
    My alt is CropCircles. I couldn't log back into it, so I created this one instead. I'm pretty sure we were in Sin City mafia together. And I think you ran the first game I played in. Granted that was like...before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

    Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
    I admit CC's "obviously rushed early wagon is bad" and "super early lurker hunting is bad" are technically stances. So is "lynching town is bad". That's how shallow these are. I refuse to consider these actual stances. They are non-stances.
    So they are stances except that they aren't stances. Got it.

    Also "lynching town is bad" is not a tell. Bandwagoning and throwing broad accusations are. You're comparison does not hold up. You are clearly inventing reasons to vote for me.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Grape v soulread
    Does this mean something?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Snow White Mafia - Day 2 - Dopey ditched dinner
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    @Axelrod/ZDS/Highroller I guess: This is probably useless to ask, but do you guys know how CropCircles played back in the day? He was way before my time and I know that he was the originator of many MTGS memes (I think like Daykill loran16 or someething was attributed to him IIRC, but I can't remember).
    :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

    Kind of side-eyeing this post? Like if you're not a fan of me, why not actually vote me and interrogate me rather than like soft-accuse me like you did here?
    Too early/small tell. It was things that caught my eye. Obviously I didn't think it was worth a vote, especially when I don't know if this behavior is typical or not.

    His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post.
    So I'm over defensive for responding to an accusation? Anything specific that you read as over defensive?

    And the reason for my vote is that his justification for voting me doesn't make sense. The fact that he didn't respond to my counter points solidifies this feeling.

    Unvote
    Vote CropCircles
    Rude.
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    @CropCircles -

    1) You said that people who voted ZDS are "suspicious" but you're super quick to vote ZDS as soon as he attacks you. Why do you think ZDS is scum, and what do you now make of the people who were voting him early?
    It did look suspect, but it is not suspect if ZDS is scum. Which is the way I am currently leaning.

    As for my reasons for voting ZDS, see above.

    2) Given you've said that you're mostly observing, are there any strong observations on the 130 posts there have been so far? Do you have any thoughts on any player not named ZDS or me?
    Not really.
    Posted in: Mafia
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