@Whisper
"vote: Trisscar
now that I understand the situation"
Could i get you to explain this to me like I'm ten or something please? Kinda crashing atm but i need to shove my sleep schedule forward another 8 hours or so.
...Right then. Since Joe has decided that answering is not worth their time, let's review shall we.
Joe has spent the last several in game Days saying that flavor does not matter, and that my play is "bad" for focusing on it.
Joe has also spent most of that time being rude to most of the players, and starting or continuing arguments for some obscure reason.
Joe has spent the majority of the last few day phases apparently scumreading me beyond anyone else, but has consistantly voted Starling or Deadbananas when EoD arrived.
Joe has waited until now to claim that:
-They are a flavor cop, in a game where "flavor doesn't matter, and if you focus on it you're bad at this game."
-That my flavor is not my actual flavor.
-And will not state what my flavor is supposed to be.
If this is SOMEHOW still town, it's the worst townplay I've seen; and I had someone in my last game who decided that attracting the day town yeet by never saying anything except sarcastic short remarks to anger others, was a good idea as a vanilla town.
.....I cannot actually see how this would be managed mechanically in any reasonable fashion, the heck. Do you just gain immunities till nothing can kill you at night whatsoever?
my apologies I lost content in paraphrasing. I can't be killed by that player in that specific night phase.
EG If I had guessed "Player A votes Player B at eod 2" and player A votes player B at EOD 2....player A can't kill being N2. But if they tried to kill me N3 the protection is gone unless I guessed correctly again for EOD 3
....Weiiiiiirrrdddd. That is a lot of role record keeping, but I can see Osie being willing to do that for the luls of the role. Dang though.
Second Carrow not having a kill or at least extremely disruptive role would be weird. HOWEVER one Carrow was a every-other-night poisoner, so the second one having an every-night kill is also weird and inconsistent. Unless like, second Carrow has an upgrade mechanic separate from Mark that gave them full nk powers after death of the first one, which would be even weirder.
I guess maf could have another other-night kill to balance it out............ blech.
Jack/Sloth and Rhand/WMU was two nights in a row. Either;
-the remaining SK is all nights with maf having one kill (or having more but not using them which makes no sense).
-the remaining SK is an other-night killer but the maf have a THIRD other-night for.... reasons?
-the remaining SK has no at least direct killing ability, and the maf have two.
Sk had no major reason to kill Jack, and maf had no real reason to kill WMU.
Third other-nighter seems less than likely.
I think the Sk has an every night. Which is weird as all hell with an other-night poisoner but fiiiiiine. Which means maf has one nk per night.
Ugh.
@TerRaine "I'm Peter Pettigrew/Wormtail. At night I get to guess who half of you will being voting for at EoD the next Day phase. If I guess right on a player that particular player can't kill me at night."
.....I cannot actually see how this would be managed mechanically in any reasonable fashion, the heck. Do you just gain immunities till nothing can kill you at night whatsoever?
"...I feel some sort of way about this. "
Quite specific of you.
@Orange "What leads you to spend a decent chunk of time focusing on a Mafia Role Cop in particular? Considering none of the kills except for Sloth have been on unclaimed Town PRs, it does seem weird to jump there so readily."
Completedness sake. Used to games that have much higher instances of mafia rolecops (in addition to much higher instances of literally everything else), so I put it down on paper to make sure my logic is correct and I'm not missing something by just letting it slide around my brain.
"That's cool and all, but I'm specifically seeking your insight on which kill each night you think is scum, and which you think is Carrow - unless you believe there's unclaimed town KP as well, but at this point I'm personally not feeling that one to be likely. As such, I'd appreciate if you would look over Jackrito/Sloth and Rhand/WMU and put forward which faction you think would have been most likely to carry out each kill, as well as your reasons for believing so."
...hmm.
-Jack wasn't focusing *too* hard on anyone in particular, in all honestly they were barely here, like two pages of comments or something and most of that was small and/or reactionary.
I don't really see SK getting worried about it? Becomes roulette at that point, unless they thought they were damn near guaranteed to be a NK target by Jack which seems very unlikely.
...So probably scum I guess?
-Sloth then, would be a town NK, or a mafia nk, guessing maf since like i said, they weren't exactly being universally scumread to say the least.
-WMU is literally the reason I think we could potentially have another Town NK, or possibly a redirect. Either that or SK scumread them. Maf has no reason to kill them based on behavior and general perception, OR role if maf even has a cop.
-Rhand.... Only makes sense to me if Whisper was townreading a maf or sk and Rhand was not. Leading voices are powerful as hell, but if they're pocketed they're valuable to keep around for scum players, assuming they can keep them that way. Again, I could be missing some community perception of Rhand's potential to crack a game, but if that's not it then that's all I've got.
If all this is correct, then I would assume that either the second Carrow is not in fact a kill role, or mafia have only one nightkill per night. Cue me massively shrugging for like the next hour and a half.
"how many FM games have you been scum in"
FM being forum mafia? None.
@Amy "my one caveat is that it's definitely on flavor for pettigrew to be fully selfprotective"
@JoeTerry
"Triss, your posts aren’t the easiest to read "
...Fair, I do try to make them at least legible though. Formatting helps but the formatting UI on this site isn't helping, since I'm used to seeing the effects in real time without needing a "preview" button.
@JoeTerry "What Rolecopping are you talking about? I didn't catch anyone claiming to be a rolecop. "
........
"Also this is assuming there's a maf cop at all which is a shot in the dark itself so.... eh?"
I realize it's a lot of text but come on now.
"I don't think Gibbon liked the idea of waiting up there alone for Dumbledore, because he came running back downstairs to rejoin the fight and was hit by a Killing Curse that just missed me."
HBP, pg. 619"
I just realized that Osie made a joke here. Fair play.
------------
Possible kill sources of:
Each Odd Night phase, as a Night action, you may poison a player. (SK Carrow)
Mafia factional kill (assuming it exists)
Jackrito's vigi shot
Possible other Carrow kill, might be even nights only
Possible extra kill potential from mafia?
-D1
Alright so first yeet of the game was Konan, who was Gibbon, Town Vanilla. I'm not going to sit here and try to figure this nonsense out, it was a yeet of a slot that had just replaced out and people were being silly.
Then we had, for N1 kills;
Fulcrum the Carrow SK Poisoner
Whisper, our now returned Riddle
and ZDS, Avery the Town aligned Gravedigger
Personally, I consider both Fulcrum and Whisper to be very experienced players who hold a lot of sway, and that opinion at least seems to bear out across sites?
Given that there is (probably?) no rolecop stuff here for the N1 actions that would determine where a kill should go before actions were submitted, I would assume both of these players were killed due to their potential influence on the game.
ZDS I have no goddamn clue tbh. They were marked as V/LA in Osie's modposts the entirety of D1, and I don't recall anything specific about them at all, beyond that people kept abbreviating their username and it took me a while before I auto-translated it.
-D2
Tubba was modkilled, le shrug.
Deadbananas was yeeted, another replacement that was yeeted day of, was Town IC/Upgrader
We got Whisper back, so yay!
N2 kills were Jackrito the Town "(I do all the things but might not get to choose which, and I can only do it once, but) I did shoot a guy"; and Sloth who was apparently Town Puppy, except they were actually Town Alignment Cop.
Jack shot..... ZDS. I still don't know why this was the shot but ok, maybe Jack wanted to RB them instead or something. I would assume that scum knew Jack wasn't theirs, same for SKs, and therefore yeet the vigilante-role who might be lying about not being able to NK again.
Sloth (reading this backwards)....played around with TerRaine and Lagoon, was offended that they would be read as scum with Orange (...I think?), was having issues sounding out TerRaine, voted DeadBananas, didn't like my posts on D2....
Oh, they were becoming one of the leading voices in the thread. Rhand was voting them, but I'm not seeing a whole lot else against them that people would seem likely to heavily consider. Guessing this is the reason for their death N2.
-D3
Starling lynch, but WAIT, it was Axelrod all along!
N3 kills are are Rhand, Town Doc, but WAIT, he was Town Riddle this time!
Also WakeMeUp, Town Vanilla.
At this point there actually seems to be some chance that a mafia role cop could possibly influence the decisions here, technically they could N2 as well but I figure that unless there's more than one of them it would be unlikely to shift things too far, barring a lucky target N1.
However since the kills were a sudo-confirmed Riddle by daychat, and a vanilla townie, I would assume that any role copping was either at targets who died before N3, or simply found less attractive targets than these two which.... is weird if so.
Also this is assuming there's a maf cop at all which is a shot in the dark itself so.... eh?
...Would Whisper have flipped actual alignment if they died again? Like this sorta confirms them anyway, Rhand dying, but i guess it's still in question technically.... I dunno, I think I would have gone for Whisper instead in mafia's shoes, if the earlier logic of leading voices is true. Maybe I just don't know Rhand as well as I know Whisper.
WakeMeUp doesn't make sense as a leading voice, a hidden PR (unless they crumbed it and I didn't notice but someone else did), a confirmed town, someone not being scumread by at least some people, a rolecop catch, or being overly active.
I suppose being scumread is probably the reason? Maybe mafia thought they were the Carrow, or the Carrow thought they were mafia. Nobody is claiming having shot otherwise so... process of elimination I guess. *shrug*
Ooooook, let's see.
@Whisper
"vote: Trisscar
now that I understand the situation"
Could i get you to explain this to me like I'm ten or something please? Kinda crashing atm but i need to shove my sleep schedule forward another 8 hours or so.
Ability-less. With the dark mark text that we've been assuming is bulletproof for a night.
Are you claiming to know what my "real" flavor is or not?
..........
Yeah not changing my vote. Yeet yourself out of my field of observation ye gods.
Joe has spent the last several in game Days saying that flavor does not matter, and that my play is "bad" for focusing on it.
Joe has also spent most of that time being rude to most of the players, and starting or continuing arguments for some obscure reason.
Joe has spent the majority of the last few day phases apparently scumreading me beyond anyone else, but has consistantly voted Starling or Deadbananas when EoD arrived.
Joe has waited until now to claim that:
-They are a flavor cop, in a game where "flavor doesn't matter, and if you focus on it you're bad at this game."
-That my flavor is not my actual flavor.
-And will not state what my flavor is supposed to be.
If this is SOMEHOW still town, it's the worst townplay I've seen; and I had someone in my last game who decided that attracting the day town yeet by never saying anything except sarcastic short remarks to anger others, was a good idea as a vanilla town.
Vote: JoeTerry
..........Excuse you? You wanna explain why, if you had something from the start of today, you didn't just come out and say so?
"has triss claimed? if she did i missed it"
*Ahem*
I am Thorfinn Rowle, the group screwup; I need to prove myself to my master.
....Weiiiiiirrrdddd. That is a lot of role record keeping, but I can see Osie being willing to do that for the luls of the role. Dang though.
I guess maf could have another other-night kill to balance it out............ blech.
Jack/Sloth and Rhand/WMU was two nights in a row. Either;
-the remaining SK is all nights with maf having one kill
(or having more but not using them which makes no sense).-the remaining SK is an other-night killer but the maf have a THIRD other-night for.... reasons?
-the remaining SK has no at least direct killing ability, and the maf have two.
Sk had no major reason to kill Jack, and maf had no real reason to kill WMU.
Third other-nighter seems less than likely.
I think the Sk has an every night. Which is weird as all hell with an other-night poisoner but fiiiiiine. Which means maf has one nk per night.
Ugh.
"I'm Peter Pettigrew/Wormtail. At night I get to guess who half of you will being voting for at EoD the next Day phase. If I guess right on a player that particular player can't kill me at night."
.....I cannot actually see how this would be managed mechanically in any reasonable fashion, the heck. Do you just gain immunities till nothing can kill you at night whatsoever?
"...I feel some sort of way about this. "
Quite specific of you.
@Orange
"What leads you to spend a decent chunk of time focusing on a Mafia Role Cop in particular? Considering none of the kills except for Sloth have been on unclaimed Town PRs, it does seem weird to jump there so readily."
Completedness sake. Used to games that have much higher instances of mafia rolecops (in addition to much higher instances of literally everything else), so I put it down on paper to make sure my logic is correct and I'm not missing something by just letting it slide around my brain.
"That's cool and all, but I'm specifically seeking your insight on which kill each night you think is scum, and which you think is Carrow - unless you believe there's unclaimed town KP as well, but at this point I'm personally not feeling that one to be likely. As such, I'd appreciate if you would look over Jackrito/Sloth and Rhand/WMU and put forward which faction you think would have been most likely to carry out each kill, as well as your reasons for believing so."
...hmm.
-Jack wasn't focusing *too* hard on anyone in particular, in all honestly they were barely here, like two pages of comments or something and most of that was small and/or reactionary.
I don't really see SK getting worried about it? Becomes roulette at that point, unless they thought they were damn near guaranteed to be a NK target by Jack which seems very unlikely.
...So probably scum I guess?
-Sloth then, would be a town NK, or a mafia nk, guessing maf since like i said, they weren't exactly being universally scumread to say the least.
-WMU is literally the reason I think we could potentially have another Town NK, or possibly a redirect. Either that or SK scumread them. Maf has no reason to kill them based on behavior and general perception, OR role if maf even has a cop.
-Rhand.... Only makes sense to me if Whisper was townreading a maf or sk and Rhand was not. Leading voices are powerful as hell, but if they're pocketed they're valuable to keep around for scum players, assuming they can keep them that way. Again, I could be missing some community perception of Rhand's potential to crack a game, but if that's not it then that's all I've got.
If all this is correct, then I would assume that either the second Carrow is not in fact a kill role, or mafia have only one nightkill per night. Cue me massively shrugging for like the next hour and a half.
"how many FM games have you been scum in"
FM being forum mafia? None.
@Amy
"my one caveat is that it's definitely on flavor for pettigrew to be fully selfprotective"
.....Fair, huh.
"Triss, your posts aren’t the easiest to read "
...Fair, I do try to make them at least legible though. Formatting helps but the formatting UI on this site isn't helping, since I'm used to seeing the effects in real time without needing a "preview" button.
"What Rolecopping are you talking about? I didn't catch anyone claiming to be a rolecop. "
........
"Also this is assuming there's a maf cop at all which is a shot in the dark itself so.... eh?"
I realize it's a lot of text but come on now.
"Final Day 1 Votecount
"I don't think Gibbon liked the idea of waiting up there alone for Dumbledore, because he came running back downstairs to rejoin the fight and was hit by a Killing Curse that just missed me."
HBP, pg. 619"
I just realized that Osie made a joke here. Fair play.
------------
Possible kill sources of:
Each Odd Night phase, as a Night action, you may poison a player. (SK Carrow)
Mafia factional kill (assuming it exists)
Jackrito's vigi shot
Possible other Carrow kill, might be even nights only
Possible extra kill potential from mafia?
-D1
Alright so first yeet of the game was Konan, who was Gibbon, Town Vanilla. I'm not going to sit here and try to figure this nonsense out, it was a yeet of a slot that had just replaced out and people were being silly.
Then we had, for N1 kills;
Fulcrum the Carrow SK Poisoner
Whisper, our now returned Riddle
and ZDS, Avery the Town aligned Gravedigger
Personally, I consider both Fulcrum and Whisper to be very experienced players who hold a lot of sway, and that opinion at least seems to bear out across sites?
Given that there is (probably?) no rolecop stuff here for the N1 actions that would determine where a kill should go before actions were submitted, I would assume both of these players were killed due to their potential influence on the game.
ZDS I have no goddamn clue tbh. They were marked as V/LA in Osie's modposts the entirety of D1, and I don't recall anything specific about them at all, beyond that people kept abbreviating their username and it took me a while before I auto-translated it.
-D2
Tubba was modkilled, le shrug.
Deadbananas was yeeted, another replacement that was yeeted day of, was Town IC/Upgrader
We got Whisper back, so yay!
N2 kills were Jackrito the Town "(I do all the things but might not get to choose which, and I can only do it once, but) I did shoot a guy"; and Sloth who was apparently Town Puppy, except they were actually Town Alignment Cop.
Jack shot..... ZDS. I still don't know why this was the shot but ok, maybe Jack wanted to RB them instead or something. I would assume that scum knew Jack wasn't theirs, same for SKs, and therefore yeet the vigilante-role who might be lying about not being able to NK again.
Sloth (reading this backwards)....played around with TerRaine and Lagoon, was offended that they would be read as scum with Orange (...I think?), was having issues sounding out TerRaine, voted DeadBananas, didn't like my posts on D2....
Oh, they were becoming one of the leading voices in the thread. Rhand was voting them, but I'm not seeing a whole lot else against them that people would seem likely to heavily consider. Guessing this is the reason for their death N2.
-D3
Starling lynch, but WAIT, it was Axelrod all along!
N3 kills are are Rhand, Town Doc, but WAIT, he was Town Riddle this time!
Also WakeMeUp, Town Vanilla.
At this point there actually seems to be some chance that a mafia role cop could possibly influence the decisions here, technically they could N2 as well but I figure that unless there's more than one of them it would be unlikely to shift things too far, barring a lucky target N1.
However since the kills were a sudo-confirmed Riddle by daychat, and a vanilla townie, I would assume that any role copping was either at targets who died before N3, or simply found less attractive targets than these two which.... is weird if so.
Also this is assuming there's a maf cop at all which is a shot in the dark itself so.... eh?
...Would Whisper have flipped actual alignment if they died again? Like this sorta confirms them anyway, Rhand dying, but i guess it's still in question technically.... I dunno, I think I would have gone for Whisper instead in mafia's shoes, if the earlier logic of leading voices is true. Maybe I just don't know Rhand as well as I know Whisper.
WakeMeUp doesn't make sense as a leading voice, a hidden PR (unless they crumbed it and I didn't notice but someone else did), a confirmed town, someone not being scumread by at least some people, a rolecop catch, or being overly active.
I suppose being scumread is probably the reason? Maybe mafia thought they were the Carrow, or the Carrow thought they were mafia. Nobody is claiming having shot otherwise so... process of elimination I guess. *shrug*