Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time.
Correctly? What does that even mean?
You can't drop in the middle of cutting your opponent's deck and own their cards.
You can't take a look at your friend's deck at an fnm to give them advice, drop, and own their cards.
You can't steal someone's cards, drop, and have the dci say you own them.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure how it applies to cutting. You do correctly possess those cards at that time. I'm sure they don't intend to sanction stealing your opponent's cards while cutting, but that's a question for a judge.
I find it quite telling that the people making up the absurd examples that have nothing to do with MTG or MTGS as a site to try and prove their point at the ones in favor of box mapping.
Argument by analogy is perfectly valid, and effective, especially when the analogy is a good one.
So draft the whole box and keep the cards you want out of it. You are getting them all in the end anyway. And I would estimate the number of box mappers who actually do that is probably 0. Defense of a practice by thinking up examples no one does is not a defense. Any number of illegal or illicit activities can be justified by making up absurd corner cases that don't happen. That's not how the world works.
Do you have any proof of this? I certainly draft the leftovers. And I would never want to participate in a draft (even a free draft) in which I have to give up my rares at the end, but I would be perfectly happy participating in a free draft in which I know the probability of me pulling any good rares is low.
What part of box mapping is unethical? Is it pulling the good cards from the box, or is it going and selling the leftover packs as normal packs?
It's not the actual mapping of the box that's unethical, it's what you do with the remaining packs that can be unethical.
Most people draft with them. I have a group of friends that like to come over and do really cheap drafts with the mapped packs. They all know they have been mapped ahead of time. We just play for fun and practice.
@Klooher, yes it's possible to scam people. Most of us don't do that. If we were, it'd be pretty poor business to tell people what we were doing and how to do it themselves. We do it because it's a fun puzzle, that allows us to explore another aspect of the game we all love. And, although it's by no means the main intent, we raise awareness of mapping. These threads popping up as people post info attract others attention and get them to learn about it. I can't tell you how many people come into each season's set and ask "does this actually work?" It's probably half the posts in any given thread. If we can show them that "this is surprisingly easy to do" (once the map's solved) or "hey, it's a really bad idea to buy loose packs online," then that's a plus for the magic community as a whole.
I've mapped a box of RTR. It's possible; it's fun; most of all, it's great to hand people packs and say "hey, enjoy the _________" then watch them react to opening it. It's a wonderful way for people to learn about mapping and see it in action. I can tell you for certain they'll all check twice before buying loose packs!
So.... the whole point is to screw people over by scamming then into thinking they are getting a random booster pack, when really you have taken the good cards already?
Not quite. That was, in fact, what was happening for a long time, before the details of how the method works became more widely known, and I suspect that a great many players took it in the shorts in expected value. Now there is a level playing field because anyone can find out about it and anyone can do it. That means most players know not to buy loose boosters except from reputable sources. For our purposes, it's a HUGE benefit to be able to open our constructed big-money rares and still have a pile of packs left over for drafting and sealed.
A sealed pack known (with good probability) to contain a constructed/big-money rare is worth far more than retail, obviously. Meanwhile, a sealed pack with a ho-hum rare in it is still worth almost its full normal value for limited play, but is worth very little just opened outright. The end result is that by mapping, you make some of your packs MUCH more valuable, while not really hurting the value of the rest of your packs all that much, given what you're going to use them for. Hence, the average value of each pack you've paid for goes up. In some cases, way up. This helps reduce the cost of your hobby. It's an incremental thing, but it builds up considerably over time.
EDIT: Also, all of your quotes came from two people. That's hardly a majority of the people mapping boxes. (And yes, my quotes came from three other people, plus myself, which is also hardly a majority. Neither of us can assume the motivations of the majority of the people who are mapping boxes.)
Ok, I wanna try. They want to print a sweeper that can't be too good, maybe with a sort of downside or something flexible like...
Supreme VerdictWWUU
Enchantment
When Supreme Verdict comes into play exile all creatures. All Creatures exiled in this way are returned to the battlefield if Supreme Verdict leaves play.
That sounds like it should be mono-white. Both Oblivion Ring effects and board sweeper effects are white, not blue at all.
That said, I don't know if it's balanced power-level wise but I would be happy with a card similar to that.
This is my understanding of what happens when you encounter it:
1. You planeswalk away from the old plane (assuming for the purposes of this post that the plane has no triggered abilities upon planeswalking away).
2. You flip over the next card of the planar deck, which happens to be Chaotic Aether.
3. Its ability triggers.
4. Its ability resolves.
5. You planeswalk away from Chaotic Aether.
6. You flip over the next card of the planar deck (assuming that there are no triggered abilities upon planeswalking to this plane).
7. Anytime anyone rolls the die on that plane, if it doesn't come up as planeswalk, it's chaos.
8. When you planeswalk away, you flip the next card of the planar deck and the game goes on as usual.
However, a few of my friends have a different understanding of the card:
1. You planeswalk away from the old plane (assuming for the purposes of this post that the plane has no triggered abilities upon planeswalking away).
2. You flip over the next card of the planar deck, which happens to be Chaotic Aether.
3. Its ability triggers.
4. Its ability resolves.
5. You return to the previous plane, with Chaotic Aether still active.
6. Anytime anyone rolls the die on that plane, if it doesn't come up as planeswalk, it's chaos.
7. When someone rolls planeswalk, you planeswalk away from the phenomenon and the plane, flip the next card of the planar deck, and the game goes on as usual.
Can someone please tell me who is right here? Thank you.
This does not work.
What you intend is this:
1. Play Oblivion Ring
2. O-Ring's first ability goes on the stack
3. Use Venser's ability to exile O-Ring
4. O-Ring's second ability goes on the stack
6. Second ability resolves, nothing happens because there's nothing exiled under O-Ring
7. First ability resolves, exiles something forever.
This sequence does not work because planeswalker abilities can only be used at sorcery speeds. You can't activate the ability while another ability is on the stack.
However, replace it with an instant speed exile ability (for example, Telim'Tor's Edict) and it would work.
It's been mentioned before, but I don't think anyone analyzed the data for it: I looked over about 20-30 boxes on that spreadsheet, and it looks like when a Cavern of Souls shows up, there is around a 50% chance that there's a Temporal Mastery within two packs. This was across both Belgium and USA boxes.
EDIT: Scratch that, only the Belgium boxes had it and it was confirmation bias that lead me to believe that the USA boxes had it too.
In the first situation, Gravetiller Wurm would normally deal 3 damage to Russet Wolves and 1 to player B. Because of Inquisitor's Flail, that damage is doubled and it would deal 6 to the wolves and 2 to B. Because of Abuna Acolyte, one of the damage that would be dealt to B is prevented and it only deals 1 to B.
In the second situation, the same thing happens - the damage is doubled, then one is prevented. The creature will be dealt 7 points of damage and die.
Forecast is an activated ability. Revealing the card is part of the cost, but the card itself is never on the stack (the activated ability is).
It can't be countered with a card that says "counter target spell", the card must say "counter target activated ability".
If it is countered, all that happens is you wasted the two mana.
OK, for everybody complaining about charging for upgrades, get some perspective. A booster pack costs $4. We don't know how much it will cost to update, but even if it's $4 per set, you'll spend three times as much on a single booster draft. It's much more likely to be $1, which is 1/12 the amount you'd spend on a draft.
Though I will say that the app I use now has been great so far, especially for EDH games, and it would take a lot to get me to switch.
Many ways.
You can assign each legal target a number, then roll dice.
You can take each legal target, shuffle them under the table, then lay them out upside down on the table and have someone choose one (won't work if there are different sleeves).
You can take a bunch of pieces of paper, write the name of a legal target on each, then throw them in a hat and have someone choose one.
You can take a bunch of pieces of paper, write a number on each, then assign each legal target a number, throw them in a hat and have someone choose one.
Basically, anything that gives an equal chance of each target being chosen.
You can't drop in the middle of cutting your opponent's deck and own their cards.
You can't take a look at your friend's deck at an fnm to give them advice, drop, and own their cards.
You can't steal someone's cards, drop, and have the dci say you own them.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure how it applies to cutting. You do correctly possess those cards at that time. I'm sure they don't intend to sanction stealing your opponent's cards while cutting, but that's a question for a judge.
Argument by analogy is perfectly valid, and effective, especially when the analogy is a good one.
Do you have any proof of this? I certainly draft the leftovers. And I would never want to participate in a draft (even a free draft) in which I have to give up my rares at the end, but I would be perfectly happy participating in a free draft in which I know the probability of me pulling any good rares is low.
What part of box mapping is unethical? Is it pulling the good cards from the box, or is it going and selling the leftover packs as normal packs?
It's not the actual mapping of the box that's unethical, it's what you do with the remaining packs that can be unethical.
Valid reasons to map a box include:
and from the same post:
and:
EDIT: Also, all of your quotes came from two people. That's hardly a majority of the people mapping boxes. (And yes, my quotes came from three other people, plus myself, which is also hardly a majority. Neither of us can assume the motivations of the majority of the people who are mapping boxes.)
Out of curiosity, aside from the value of the card, what is the card on top of it?
That sounds like it should be mono-white. Both Oblivion Ring effects and board sweeper effects are white, not blue at all.
That said, I don't know if it's balanced power-level wise but I would be happy with a card similar to that.
EDIT: did not realize that there was a thank you button. That makes this post completely useless.
I would like a quick ruling for this phenomenon.
This is my understanding of what happens when you encounter it:
1. You planeswalk away from the old plane (assuming for the purposes of this post that the plane has no triggered abilities upon planeswalking away).
2. You flip over the next card of the planar deck, which happens to be Chaotic Aether.
3. Its ability triggers.
4. Its ability resolves.
5. You planeswalk away from Chaotic Aether.
6. You flip over the next card of the planar deck (assuming that there are no triggered abilities upon planeswalking to this plane).
7. Anytime anyone rolls the die on that plane, if it doesn't come up as planeswalk, it's chaos.
8. When you planeswalk away, you flip the next card of the planar deck and the game goes on as usual.
However, a few of my friends have a different understanding of the card:
1. You planeswalk away from the old plane (assuming for the purposes of this post that the plane has no triggered abilities upon planeswalking away).
2. You flip over the next card of the planar deck, which happens to be Chaotic Aether.
3. Its ability triggers.
4. Its ability resolves.
5. You return to the previous plane, with Chaotic Aether still active.
6. Anytime anyone rolls the die on that plane, if it doesn't come up as planeswalk, it's chaos.
7. When someone rolls planeswalk, you planeswalk away from the phenomenon and the plane, flip the next card of the planar deck, and the game goes on as usual.
Can someone please tell me who is right here? Thank you.
Venser, The Sojourner
This does not work.
What you intend is this:
1. Play Oblivion Ring
2. O-Ring's first ability goes on the stack
3. Use Venser's ability to exile O-Ring
4. O-Ring's second ability goes on the stack
6. Second ability resolves, nothing happens because there's nothing exiled under O-Ring
7. First ability resolves, exiles something forever.
This sequence does not work because planeswalker abilities can only be used at sorcery speeds. You can't activate the ability while another ability is on the stack.
However, replace it with an instant speed exile ability (for example, Telim'Tor's Edict) and it would work.
EDIT: Scratch that, only the Belgium boxes had it and it was confirmation bias that lead me to believe that the USA boxes had it too.
In the second situation, the same thing happens - the damage is doubled, then one is prevented. The creature will be dealt 7 points of damage and die.
It can't be countered with a card that says "counter target spell", the card must say "counter target activated ability".
If it is countered, all that happens is you wasted the two mana.
They explicitly stated that this is not the case in the feature articles this morning. If you haven't read them yet, I suggest you do.
Though I will say that the app I use now has been great so far, especially for EDH games, and it would take a lot to get me to switch.
You can assign each legal target a number, then roll dice.
You can take each legal target, shuffle them under the table, then lay them out upside down on the table and have someone choose one (won't work if there are different sleeves).
You can take a bunch of pieces of paper, write the name of a legal target on each, then throw them in a hat and have someone choose one.
You can take a bunch of pieces of paper, write a number on each, then assign each legal target a number, throw them in a hat and have someone choose one.
Basically, anything that gives an equal chance of each target being chosen.