@Last: Do you still think Umami is being carefree?
@GJ: Is smart alleckness a tell for Axel?
@ITF: You say in 274 that ZDS is town for reevauluating his reads. Why doesn't scum!ZDS do that?
Not sure if asking Whisp is I'm being carefree is actual problem solving? That you ask the question suggests that you think it is meta AI and I've never played with Whisp before so they're one of the least qualified people to answer your question...
how does the question relate at all to meta...
I'm getting the vibe that based on our prior game Grape thinks being carefree is AI for me specifically and not for everyone in general. I also think that reading my play based on a prior game and what is "carefree" for me is somewhat dependent on having played with me before. So like, if he was asking Tom, Vaimes, or Rhand it would make more sense to me. Specifically asking you seems like trying to get points for engaging more than trying to get help reading me
That said, shadow I know you said you were going to vote to approve, but why would you ever approve a 3 person mission you're not on that's not the 4th or 5th nomination?
I mean, this is my ideal mission--I think it has best shot of passing, but if everyone voted it through, I would have been majorly concerned. Plus, I knew I had next nomination so wanted to see the voting pattern and vaimes has the mission after GJ.
@Last: Do you still think Umami is being carefree?
@GJ: Is smart alleckness a tell for Axel?
@ITF: You say in 274 that ZDS is town for reevauluating his reads. Why doesn't scum!ZDS do that?
Not sure if asking Whisp is I'm being carefree is actual problem solving? That you ask the question suggests that you think it is meta AI and I've never played with Whisp before so they're one of the least qualified people to answer your question...
Somewhat disappointed Sloth didn’t be include a real “why” for this proposal. Still, I have varying degrees of trust for this group so might a well see what happens.
To clarify, I don't have a read on Tom at this point. Because he's explained like nothing and just popped into vote every once in a while.
It's super different than my experience with him, but apparently you change your playstyle for each forum despite using meta reads across forums, so I guess it's NAI
I feel like you answered my questions and I understand your previous post, but am more confused about the new one:
While their stuff could be NAI, Whisp and ZDS are both my closest thing to a town read now. Their pushes on me felt more genuine than opportunistic. I like Vaimes and ITF. If Whisp and ZDS are both town, I don't think Rhand as scum (or really anyone as scum) cares enough to go through the BS of trying to force an early, virtually meaningless V vs. V wagon to go one way or the other, so if both ZDS and Whisp are town, I'm forced to believe that Rhand is both fallible and town. Also, Shadow’s case wouldn’t make any sense either so he would have to be a weird villager. I still wouldn't clear Tom in this situation.
These are shorter deadlines, so forcing a dueling village wagons seems completely fine. It also makes a lot of assumptions about alignments early on. I am ready Rhand as townish as well, but mostly for his tone at this point, and it isn't really contigent on anyone else's flip because we have no dead bodies to interact with. I also don't get where Tom gets into this, or what his interaction would have to do with the other three.
I think that's what is messing me up. Just from this paragraph, I feel like you are trying to tie a lot of people together really early based on wagons that we have no idea of alignments on.
Shadow hasn't done much so far. The one recent game I remember in Playstation, he was wagoned really weirdly. I don't get it (and I knew he was town in that game), but I feel like shadow gets wolf read a lot randomly.
I don't hate your tubba point. I don't think it's as wolfy as you do, but I also don't like the vote in general. I just thought you had LW as not as town, so your response that I quoted first was just asking for clarification.
Shorter deadlines? --they're like 10 days
Dude, it's just how I think. If I make an assumption, I like to look at the downstream effect of that assumption. I don't think that town ZDS and Whisp is a super safe assumption, but it's a world I'm willing to consider and in that world I think Rhand would be town. It's not that Rhand's position is dependent on them being town, since them not being town wouldn't in any way villify Rhand. It's that, if they are both town, I don't see why Rhand would be scum. Does that make sense?
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town.
That's a touch selfish. When I switched to MU, I got lynched day 1 twice in a row, after only ever being mislynched once on this site. You have to respect the style (you don't have to change, just adapt). Or you start being treated as a meme. If that's your goal, that's fine, but you will never be a player that makes it late.
To clarify, my position wasn't trying to come from a point of selfishness. I can change my style--I just think me changing my playstyle as town to conform to something that is more easily faked as scum, legit just makes my town teammates jobs more difficult. To me, part of your job as town is to not only solve others but to be solved as town. I think I'm just confused on how editing my style helps my town teammates?
That said, if my style is not really fun for the thread as a whole, I get changing it
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town.
That's a touch selfish. When I switched to MU, I got lynched day 1 twice in a row, after only ever being mislynched once on this site. You have to respect the style (you don't have to change, just adapt). Or you start being treated as a meme. If that's your goal, that's fine, but you will never be a player that makes it late.
Quote from Rhand »
@GJ and Vaimes: do I really generally not explain my reads? Because I think I normally do?
I think you generally do, but I also think you naked vote alot, and will often times switch mindsets without a clear path as to why you did something.
@Umami: what is true about my play style is that I often have extreme confidence in my reads. But I do have a high hit rate, especially early game before I start doubting. Also because of my career I specialised in sniffing out bad single posts because I often don’t have time to keep track of the big picture (before covid-19 that is, now I have too much time).
I do however try to explain what I see, albeit often unsuccessfully.
I think you read decently, but you OMGUS...a lot...as both alignments. I think you eventually get the wolf team only after you get yelled at for having several teams.
Quote from Tubba »
You and Umami have spent a lot of time talking around each other, Umami’s early defense of you by questioning the votes on you and your defense of him by claiming to see towniness in his actions makes this vote smelly. What’s changed for you?
Vote Last
Anything else to add about the several posts of pages that have gone through?
Quote from Umani »
Yeah, Tubba, if you're going to go for it, go for the jugular. Plus, as myself, I can tell you that I do not rank Whisp as a supporter. Also getting the vibe Whisp doesn't like his brother that much and I am not a huge fan of the transference.
Misrepresentation of Whisp after having the most complete picture wins you...my vote!
unvote
VoteTubba
Can you explain it like I am 5 what your issue with Tubba is, and how you view Wisp? Because I read it as you don't think Tubba is going hard enough, but you don't really like Wisp either?
Quote from Rhand »
Ok I cross referenced that with GJ’s post and looks like a real read. Thx.
Wait, what?
Missed about a page and a half, and I feel more confused. ITF is pretty null entry. LW lean town, Rhand is townish as long as he doesn't step out of line. I like ZDS, but I also liked him earlier in Prison so I am feeling paranoid, but since his complaints with Uman are reflecting my own, I am willing to tune it out.
I think Tubba is wolfy, but I can't remember a game I ever thought he was townie. So I am going to defer on that. KJ feels really underwhelming, as does Axel. Umani I am getting slight wolf reads on.
If I didn't talk about you, you didn't make an impression ;). But I am here now
\
Harsh but fair.
While their stuff could be NAI, Whisp and ZDS are both my closest thing to a town read now. Their pushes on me felt more genuine than opportunistic. I like Vaimes and ITF. If Whisp and ZDS are both town, I don't think Rhand as scum (or really anyone as scum) cares enough to go through the BS of trying to force an early, virtually meaningless V vs. V wagon to go one way or the other, so if both ZDS and Whisp are town, I'm forced to believe that Rhand is both fallible and town. Also, Shadow’s case wouldn’t make any sense either so he would have to be a weird villager. I still wouldn't clear Tom in this situation.
If Shadow is generally scummy and was trying to force a preference on Tom because it wasn't V vs. V, then it would indicate ZDS/Shadow w/w because don't know why shadow would pull that weird move as scum either, but then it would be pretty an obvious connection that would take both of them down, so also don't see why shadow would do that as scum. He could actually be connected to Whisp and was creating early distance, but again weird move that ultimately wouldn't hold up or be helpful for his team, so I feel best about sticking with first paragraph of assumptions than assuming shadow's playing a really obvious scum game.
I voted Tubba in a joking tone, but it was a serious vote. My confidence in it isn't super high, but I want to try to figure him out and it's a starting point. He seemed to be caught up with the game but misrepresented Whisp to a degree that seemed more than accidental. Like his subsequent posts better, but he backs off pretty quick in #302 and says he's still catching up when I think he quoted both early posts and the later post where Whisp j'accuse!d me (which Whisp already pointed out), suggesting he was at least caught up on all the Whisp/me stuff. To me, he hasn't fully addressed how the misrepresentation happened given the posts he quoted/cited that he therefore must have read
I'm getting the vibe that based on our prior game Grape thinks being carefree is AI for me specifically and not for everyone in general. I also think that reading my play based on a prior game and what is "carefree" for me is somewhat dependent on having played with me before. So like, if he was asking Tom, Vaimes, or Rhand it would make more sense to me. Specifically asking you seems like trying to get points for engaging more than trying to get help reading me
I mean, this is my ideal mission--I think it has best shot of passing, but if everyone voted it through, I would have been majorly concerned. Plus, I knew I had next nomination so wanted to see the voting pattern and vaimes has the mission after GJ.
Let's run it!
I nominate myself, sloth, and vaimes
Urmama going to whoop you boy
Not sure if asking Whisp is I'm being carefree is actual problem solving? That you ask the question suggests that you think it is meta AI and I've never played with Whisp before so they're one of the least qualified people to answer your question...
fair enough, but I expect an Axel jump or something at some point
Wait, what?
It's super different than my experience with him, but apparently you change your playstyle for each forum despite using meta reads across forums, so I guess it's NAI
ITF and Vaimes gut response are completely independent.
Tubba is pseudo-independent.
Shorter deadlines? --they're like 10 days
Dude, it's just how I think. If I make an assumption, I like to look at the downstream effect of that assumption. I don't think that town ZDS and Whisp is a super safe assumption, but it's a world I'm willing to consider and in that world I think Rhand would be town. It's not that Rhand's position is dependent on them being town, since them not being town wouldn't in any way villify Rhand. It's that, if they are both town, I don't see why Rhand would be scum. Does that make sense?
To clarify, my position wasn't trying to come from a point of selfishness. I can change my style--I just think me changing my playstyle as town to conform to something that is more easily faked as scum, legit just makes my town teammates jobs more difficult. To me, part of your job as town is to not only solve others but to be solved as town. I think I'm just confused on how editing my style helps my town teammates?
That said, if my style is not really fun for the thread as a whole, I get changing it
Harsh but fair.
While their stuff could be NAI, Whisp and ZDS are both my closest thing to a town read now. Their pushes on me felt more genuine than opportunistic. I like Vaimes and ITF. If Whisp and ZDS are both town, I don't think Rhand as scum (or really anyone as scum) cares enough to go through the BS of trying to force an early, virtually meaningless V vs. V wagon to go one way or the other, so if both ZDS and Whisp are town, I'm forced to believe that Rhand is both fallible and town. Also, Shadow’s case wouldn’t make any sense either so he would have to be a weird villager. I still wouldn't clear Tom in this situation.
If Shadow is generally scummy and was trying to force a preference on Tom because it wasn't V vs. V, then it would indicate ZDS/Shadow w/w because don't know why shadow would pull that weird move as scum either, but then it would be pretty an obvious connection that would take both of them down, so also don't see why shadow would do that as scum. He could actually be connected to Whisp and was creating early distance, but again weird move that ultimately wouldn't hold up or be helpful for his team, so I feel best about sticking with first paragraph of assumptions than assuming shadow's playing a really obvious scum game.
I voted Tubba in a joking tone, but it was a serious vote. My confidence in it isn't super high, but I want to try to figure him out and it's a starting point. He seemed to be caught up with the game but misrepresented Whisp to a degree that seemed more than accidental. Like his subsequent posts better, but he backs off pretty quick in #302 and says he's still catching up when I think he quoted both early posts and the later post where Whisp j'accuse!d me (which Whisp already pointed out), suggesting he was at least caught up on all the Whisp/me stuff. To me, he hasn't fully addressed how the misrepresentation happened given the posts he quoted/cited that he therefore must have read
Just the general motivation to participate and an abundance of time to read back through the game