20 life, 7 cards, 0 mana.
Mountain, chancellor of the forgex2(second one can be a pyretic ritual), pyretic ritual.
20 life, 3 cards, 4 mana.
Pyromancer's Ascension, Gitaxian Probex3(activate pyromancer's ascension)
12 life, 3 cards, 2 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
Pyretic Ritual
12 life, 2 cards, 6 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
Tezzeret's Gambit+copy,
8 life, 5 cards, 3 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
Pyretic Ritual
8 life, 4 cards, 7 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
4xLightning bolt+4 copies pointed at your opponents stunned face.
I have been testing online now and have both Kred and WWquest built. I have to say that WWquest is by far my favorite. Its very consistent and very very fast. Not quite as fast as Kred but much more resilient. I beat valakut in my first test game through a maindeck pyroclasm. That was pretty nuts. I'm going to try and test elves soon, but only if I can figure out how to get 4 Vengevines.
I am leaning toward WWquest right now. The version with a hyper aggressive plan B. Bunch of battlecry guys and such. Basically the one found in the link in one of the earlier replies.
WG quest does not seem to be worth it. Vengevine does not seem that great in the metagame and fauna shaman is pretty slow. Plus the mana base is significantly worse in the GW version.
Kred is tempting if not for kor firewalker. People have KRed on thier radar and its getting a lot of hate from peoples sideboards.
I'm still not sure though. I will probably playtest both Kred and WWquest until I decide.
Thanks for the help everyone!
The Tempered steel decks seem interesting. Anyone having success with them online?
So which is better? Elves, Kuldotha Red, or WW Quest?
I have played each in standard at one point or another post SOM pre MBS. What are everyones thoughts on these decks post MBS? Which is best at attacking the current metagame?
Specifically I am going to be building one of these to battle in 8-4 queues on MTGO. Which of these decks are most likely to be successful in the current MTGO metagame?
I have been thinking that enemy duals are going to be in MBS for a while. They are pushing RW as the mirran side and GB as the phyrexian side. In order to facilitate decks of those colors it only makes sense to print actual duals in those colors.
That was my original reasoning...but, look at the newest spoiler cards. See the phyrexian spoiler? Her casting cost is BGG. Thats BGG. When was the last time we saw a casing cost so restrictive? In one of the two multicolor blocks recently. Given that wizards is willing to print gold cards with such crazy mana requirements, I think it is safe to assume that we are going to see enemy duals. If not enemy duals, at least GB and RW. Though an incomplete cycle like that would be odd. Its not out of the realm of possibility though.
Thoughts?
P.S. Standard boros should get a HUGE boon from this set if we do indeed get a RW dual. Same with the infect deck. Might be time to invest in the rares/mythics that go in those decks(skythirix, Koth, stoneforge mystic, hand of the preators, etc.)
Hmm... that's interesting using more win con with blue creatures. I like it.
I found out Myr Battlesphere isn't too great. If you draw it, it's stuck in your hand since you can't throw it back into the deck and cost way too much to be hardcasted. I like the Grand Architect idea.
Renagade Doppleganger seems to work well too. Especially when I copy the Golem as it comes in. I get 2 free 3/3 golems.
Just wanted to point out that if you cast precursor golem with a renegade doppleganger on the battlefield you will not get 2 extra golems. It does not come into play since it was already in play so ETB effects dont work. See the official rulings in gatherer for confirmation.
Chimeric Mass was carefully selected over glint hawk idol for this deck. I thought about Idol and perhaps after playtesting both I might swap them out, but mass seems better to me. You can drop it for 0 if need be with a tempered steel on the board for a 2/2, or just to get metalcraft online if thats what is needed. It can also be a perfectly good 2/2 for 2 or a 1/1 for 1 when it needs to be. Or, if I topdeck it midgame or lategame it can be a 4/4 or a 6/6. That flexability seems pretty important. It just smooths the curve out a lot. If I have a hand full of 2 drops it can be a 3 drop or a 1 drop or whatever is best in that particular game. Glint hawk idol is always a 2/2 flyer for 2. Seems mediocre. Perhaps if wrath and clasm are a big problem I can run both or something. Mass just seems better at its job than the idol. But again, this is all just speculation until we get some results or do some good playtesting. Thanks for the comments! Keep em comming.
A few explanations:
Why not W/U? I thought about it. Grand architect does not seem good without a bunch of blue dudes. Counterspells out of the board seem ok, but if you look above you will see other interested anti U/W control options in mono white. Plus as a monowhite deck you can easily sustain 4x of both Dread Stauary and Tectonic Edge. Edge is incredibly important against ramp(which could be as much as 50% of the field?) And Dread Statuary seems insane post wrath against U/W with a tempered steel in play. Oh you wrath? Bash for 6.
Individual card choices:
Lodestone golem is a card which fits amazingly well in this deck. It barely effects your deck(12 cards, all of which cost less than 4 anyway and should usually come down sooner) and badly hampers any opposing deck. It is also HUGE. Plus after a few pumps from our steely spells he can kill even BSA or the titans in combat.
Journey to nowhere: Having a way to deal with opposing fauna shamans, vengevines, oracles of mul daya, titans, bsa, etc seems good. Its also cheap and very versatile. A card which will see heavy play in the new standard.
Leonin Arbiter is a no brainer. It is a completely Asymmetrical effect in this deck and badly slows down opposing ramp decks. combined with lodestone and edge, this deck should theoretically have a good ramp matchup. At least post board.
Dispense Justice Seems absolutely insane against any aggro strategy. Elves? Gobos? WW? Mono red? A sick card to have to punish the opposing aggro decks.
Both come in against our creature light U/W control opponents. Despite the poor matchup preboard(again theoretically) bringing in this 7 pack of awesomeness should help sway the matchup in our favor post board. No more O ring!
This is my baby and I am in love with the decklist. I will be testing it as soon as mtgo comes out and can't wait to sling with it in standard events soon. Thanks for taking a look. Please feel free to comment, ask questions, or suggest changes to the decklist.
I have been playing a fairly standard soul sisters decklist on mtgo recently, and have only been having trouble with one deck: Naya.
RDWs is easy once you realize that rangers and ascendants are bad. Just bring in 4 purges, 4 firewalkers, and whatever other removal you have in your SB. Side out rangers and ascendants, keep everything else, and you are gtg.
U/W is tricky but doable. Side in luminarch ascensions and play carefully and it can be done. i am 2-0 against them online. Though it is one of our worst matchups truthfully.
So what is your advice for naya? I try to side in paths and o rings to kill thier key creatures and keep them from tutoring out sparkmages, but if they can get out an active sparkmage we just lose. Is it worth it to side in 4 purges just to hit sparkmage? Perhaps siding in 2 or 3 purges is a good idea? I just don't like the idea of staring at purges in my hand and getting beat down by KotR and vengevine. Thoughts? My record against them is something like 3-3 but every time I don't have the nuts, and they have sparkmage, I just die.
Any help would be great. thanks guys!
(Oh and my list is pretty much exactly the standard list with 3 elspeth, just swapped firewalkers to board with missonaries in their place. And 3 o rings main.
I am a MTGO player and absolutely love valakut ramp. I played the deck a ton back when it was bad(pre-primeval titan) and would love to start running the new good version. However, I want to pick up primeval titans at their absolute cheapest. I assume the cheapest they are going to get is gonna be in a few weeks. I.e., when M11 stops being drafted and the prices stabilize since the flood of new copies comming in from drafts and sealeds stops/slows to a crawl.
Does that sound right? Any advice would be appreciated. I never drop 120$ on magic like this and would like to minimize the impact this is going to have on my bank account. Thanks everyone!
It is very good, if not one of the top 5 cards of the format. There is a little more hate for it now but regardless. It flies over Titans, and punches your opponent square in the jaw. It gives you a little heal lovin' which is hard to fight. It has Vigilance, So it can gain you life from attacking and then when they attack and you block their creature you gain 5 more. It has first strike so it kills anything else with 5 or less toughness before they can touch it including things with Deathtouch. It has protection from Demons and Dragons, Practically the only other fliers that could kill it it laughs at. You tell your brother to quit being jealous!
Uh....BSA does not have vigilance.
OP: Its a very over the curve creature. Basically, if you can run your opponent out of removal, or protect her with counter backup(Mythic and UW) She dominates pretty much every board state. Less so now that there are 5 6/6s running all over standard.
This is why america needs better education... with a 19% chance to have a forest out of 60... times 7 for the number of cards in your opening hand... that is?
133% in ideal conditions to have a forest in your opening hand.
Mathematically, 9/60 is the best, 4 forests and 5 fetches. Here is my factual analysis as to why:
# of forests/fetches = 9
Total # of cards in deck = 60
% of forests/fetches in deck = 9/60 = .15 = 15% of the deck is forests/fetches.
15% times # of cards in your opening hand (7) = 105%. On average, you are highly likely to have a forest or a fetch in your opening hand. If you feel insecure about it, run 10, 11 or 16 like someone was saying, but don't come complaining when your opening hand is 3 forests a fetch and some junk.
Also, when you guys playtest with titan, you realize how bad expedition map really is, 9/10 times, i use it to fetch a fetchland or a forest.
I've run 4 forests and 5 fetches since god knows when, and I've never been in a situation where I just get completely shafted by not having a forest. If you disagree with me, go playtest some more. And shuffle better.
Ok...so this might be signature worthy. 133%? Are you kidding? .... Ok buddy...math to draw cards is more complicated than you make it out to be, since each time you draw you have less total cards in your library. Not only that, even with 52 forests in your deck you would not be 100% to draw a forest. I agree. America does need better education, as you clearly show.
I disagree with your analysis as well. 5 fetches is not enough, the deck should run at least 6, possibly 7 or 8. Since having an opening hand with 2 green sources is fine, and having a hand with 0 green sources is an auto mulligan. Also, a hand with 3 green sources isn't even that bad, and is more keepable than a hand with 0 green sources. Agreed?
Also, if you want to know how to do the math the right way, look at diceshooter's posts on the last page of this thread. His analysis is perfect. So 15 sources is about 18% to draw without a green sources. Just fyi.
I loved wildfire and I love the strategy. But...I don't get why this deck idea is so popular.
Dreamstone hedron? Khalni gem? rolling terrain?
Since when has so many bad cards constituted a good deck?(sans combo, and this is no combo deck.)
And if you count it as a combo deck, your combo consists of a single card which costs 7 mana and may not even win you the game?
RDW seems like it will just steamroll this deck.
U/W seems like its an impossible matchup, planeswalkers/permission are this decks worst nightmare.
Jund? Pulse is going to ruin your day...so is blightning...so thrinax, haste dudes, a fast clock...Rough matchup.
Mythic? If they can cast a soverigns and land a conscription its game over. But this one is probably a good matchup if tuned properly(bolts, earthquake, etc.)
Overall...I'm just not feeling it. I have a feeling that Destructive Force is going to be a $.50 rare in a month.
Sorry to pee in everyone's cheerios. I just don't get it.
20 life, 7 cards, 0 mana.
Mountain, chancellor of the forgex2(second one can be a pyretic ritual), pyretic ritual.
20 life, 3 cards, 4 mana.
Pyromancer's Ascension, Gitaxian Probex3(activate pyromancer's ascension)
12 life, 3 cards, 2 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
Pyretic Ritual
12 life, 2 cards, 6 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
Tezzeret's Gambit+copy,
8 life, 5 cards, 3 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
Pyretic Ritual
8 life, 4 cards, 7 mana and an active pyromancer's ascension.
4xLightning bolt+4 copies pointed at your opponents stunned face.
DID IT. whew. I feel like I'm back in school.
I dare you...BEAT THAT!
WG quest does not seem to be worth it. Vengevine does not seem that great in the metagame and fauna shaman is pretty slow. Plus the mana base is significantly worse in the GW version.
Kred is tempting if not for kor firewalker. People have KRed on thier radar and its getting a lot of hate from peoples sideboards.
I'm still not sure though. I will probably playtest both Kred and WWquest until I decide.
Thanks for the help everyone!
The Tempered steel decks seem interesting. Anyone having success with them online?
I have played each in standard at one point or another post SOM pre MBS. What are everyones thoughts on these decks post MBS? Which is best at attacking the current metagame?
Specifically I am going to be building one of these to battle in 8-4 queues on MTGO. Which of these decks are most likely to be successful in the current MTGO metagame?
Thanks for your help everyone!
That was my original reasoning...but, look at the newest spoiler cards. See the phyrexian spoiler? Her casting cost is BGG. Thats BGG. When was the last time we saw a casing cost so restrictive? In one of the two multicolor blocks recently. Given that wizards is willing to print gold cards with such crazy mana requirements, I think it is safe to assume that we are going to see enemy duals. If not enemy duals, at least GB and RW. Though an incomplete cycle like that would be odd. Its not out of the realm of possibility though.
Thoughts?
P.S. Standard boros should get a HUGE boon from this set if we do indeed get a RW dual. Same with the infect deck. Might be time to invest in the rares/mythics that go in those decks(skythirix, Koth, stoneforge mystic, hand of the preators, etc.)
Just wanted to point out that if you cast precursor golem with a renegade doppleganger on the battlefield you will not get 2 extra golems. It does not come into play since it was already in play so ETB effects dont work. See the official rulings in gatherer for confirmation.
A few explanations:
Why not W/U? I thought about it. Grand architect does not seem good without a bunch of blue dudes. Counterspells out of the board seem ok, but if you look above you will see other interested anti U/W control options in mono white. Plus as a monowhite deck you can easily sustain 4x of both Dread Stauary and Tectonic Edge. Edge is incredibly important against ramp(which could be as much as 50% of the field?) And Dread Statuary seems insane post wrath against U/W with a tempered steel in play. Oh you wrath? Bash for 6.
Individual card choices:
Lodestone golem is a card which fits amazingly well in this deck. It barely effects your deck(12 cards, all of which cost less than 4 anyway and should usually come down sooner) and badly hampers any opposing deck. It is also HUGE. Plus after a few pumps from our steely spells he can kill even BSA or the titans in combat.
Journey to nowhere: Having a way to deal with opposing fauna shamans, vengevines, oracles of mul daya, titans, bsa, etc seems good. Its also cheap and very versatile. A card which will see heavy play in the new standard.
Leonin Arbiter is a no brainer. It is a completely Asymmetrical effect in this deck and badly slows down opposing ramp decks. combined with lodestone and edge, this deck should theoretically have a good ramp matchup. At least post board.
Dispense Justice Seems absolutely insane against any aggro strategy. Elves? Gobos? WW? Mono red? A sick card to have to punish the opposing aggro decks.
Jinxed Idol and Luminarch Ascension
Both come in against our creature light U/W control opponents. Despite the poor matchup preboard(again theoretically) bringing in this 7 pack of awesomeness should help sway the matchup in our favor post board. No more O ring!
This is my baby and I am in love with the decklist. I will be testing it as soon as mtgo comes out and can't wait to sling with it in standard events soon. Thanks for taking a look. Please feel free to comment, ask questions, or suggest changes to the decklist.
RDWs is easy once you realize that rangers and ascendants are bad. Just bring in 4 purges, 4 firewalkers, and whatever other removal you have in your SB. Side out rangers and ascendants, keep everything else, and you are gtg.
U/W is tricky but doable. Side in luminarch ascensions and play carefully and it can be done. i am 2-0 against them online. Though it is one of our worst matchups truthfully.
So what is your advice for naya? I try to side in paths and o rings to kill thier key creatures and keep them from tutoring out sparkmages, but if they can get out an active sparkmage we just lose. Is it worth it to side in 4 purges just to hit sparkmage? Perhaps siding in 2 or 3 purges is a good idea? I just don't like the idea of staring at purges in my hand and getting beat down by KotR and vengevine. Thoughts? My record against them is something like 3-3 but every time I don't have the nuts, and they have sparkmage, I just die.
Any help would be great. thanks guys!
(Oh and my list is pretty much exactly the standard list with 3 elspeth, just swapped firewalkers to board with missonaries in their place. And 3 o rings main.
I am a MTGO player and absolutely love valakut ramp. I played the deck a ton back when it was bad(pre-primeval titan) and would love to start running the new good version. However, I want to pick up primeval titans at their absolute cheapest. I assume the cheapest they are going to get is gonna be in a few weeks. I.e., when M11 stops being drafted and the prices stabilize since the flood of new copies comming in from drafts and sealeds stops/slows to a crawl.
Does that sound right? Any advice would be appreciated. I never drop 120$ on magic like this and would like to minimize the impact this is going to have on my bank account. Thanks everyone!
Main Entry: re·cur·sive
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈkər-siv\
Function: adjective
Date: 1934
1 : of, relating to, or involving recursion
2 : of, relating to, or constituting a procedure that can repeat itself indefinitely
Since you can use sun titans ability indefinitely, it is most certainly a prime example of recursion. Just because the word has a specific definition in mathematics and science does not mean it doesn't have a more general definition, as seen in the bolded above. Next time, try the dictionary in addition to Wikipedia.
Uh....BSA does not have vigilance.
OP: Its a very over the curve creature. Basically, if you can run your opponent out of removal, or protect her with counter backup(Mythic and UW) She dominates pretty much every board state. Less so now that there are 5 6/6s running all over standard.
Ok...so this might be signature worthy. 133%? Are you kidding? .... Ok buddy...math to draw cards is more complicated than you make it out to be, since each time you draw you have less total cards in your library. Not only that, even with 52 forests in your deck you would not be 100% to draw a forest. I agree. America does need better education, as you clearly show.
I disagree with your analysis as well. 5 fetches is not enough, the deck should run at least 6, possibly 7 or 8. Since having an opening hand with 2 green sources is fine, and having a hand with 0 green sources is an auto mulligan. Also, a hand with 3 green sources isn't even that bad, and is more keepable than a hand with 0 green sources. Agreed?
Also, if you want to know how to do the math the right way, look at diceshooter's posts on the last page of this thread. His analysis is perfect. So 15 sources is about 18% to draw without a green sources. Just fyi.
Dreamstone hedron? Khalni gem? rolling terrain?
Since when has so many bad cards constituted a good deck?(sans combo, and this is no combo deck.)
And if you count it as a combo deck, your combo consists of a single card which costs 7 mana and may not even win you the game?
RDW seems like it will just steamroll this deck.
U/W seems like its an impossible matchup, planeswalkers/permission are this decks worst nightmare.
Jund? Pulse is going to ruin your day...so is blightning...so thrinax, haste dudes, a fast clock...Rough matchup.
Mythic? If they can cast a soverigns and land a conscription its game over. But this one is probably a good matchup if tuned properly(bolts, earthquake, etc.)
Overall...I'm just not feeling it. I have a feeling that Destructive Force is going to be a $.50 rare in a month.
Sorry to pee in everyone's cheerios. I just don't get it.