I thought Sledge was the best wish-able card in the role of: "Turn non-threats into threats." It's not huge but turning Hawks into 3/3s with trample and lifelink wins the fight against spirit tokens and could turn the tide in a race. In the end I think it's better to rely on my MD cards to do what I need to do and leave that SB slot open to other things for now.
Thanks for the feedback. Really appreciated as I don't get to play too much. I'd like to go to an even with the best deck I can muster - and I've taken this version as far as I can on my own.
@Demannic, a while ago you were playing a GW version with Knight and Dromoka's Command. What did you learn from that? Was it helpful to have the additional threat of Knight? Was Command relevant often enough? You've obviously switched back to black, I presume because you win more with it and not simply out of personal preference. Instead of Tec. Edge, how about Blighted Fen?
@BoBoCTiberious: Your evaluation of those Wish targets seems good. Most of the time I'm wishing for a threat (Knight) or removal. I think I'll cut the Glare/Sledge and add in 2x Dromoka's Charm because I think when it's good it'll be great. I had wanted Sledge as a way to turn 1/1 dorks into threats. It also slots in to combat a lot of matches: Burn, mid-range slugfests, Twin, Blood Moon decks.
General question: How have people found Cavern of Souls in winning the control match-ups? My plan is Emeria/Proc, Cavern for threats and Nihil Spellbomb to kill Snapcaster/Goyf advantages as well as suck out their free delve mana.
Blighted Woodland I'm hoping this will facilitate both getting Sun Titan and Emeria on-line. Not sure if it's worth it over running some other utility lands and less basics. Would probably add Vault of the Archangel and Horizon Canopies if I find Blighted Woodland is no good.
Glittering Wish I'm hoping this will give me flexibility to deal with whatever is happening Game 1. I lose more specifically powerful SB options like Stony Silence, so we'll see.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence in the maindeck. I want to be sure I can have a reasonable game against combo and combo-esque decks which Linvala shuts down many.
Crime/Punishment, seems so good on paper. It's white, it's pretty fast and powerful. Both sides are relevant with Wrath turning on Crime. Will MD 2 if it's good.
Can I get some creativity/advice on a deck I'd like to play at a local tournament? This is obviously not an attempt at a top-tier DnT list, it's an experiment and for the local level. This doesn't mean I don't want to try and make it as good as possible though. What it means is that there is a core concept I'd like to keep: big mana.
I'd really like to try out Chancellor of the Annex because I think her turn 1 effect is very interesting combined with Thalia and Vryn Wingmare. Late game she should help keep the taxes level high and casting her is possible off of Nykthos. I'll be running Light Within (x2) from the board for the aggro matches.
What other big drops should I consider over Chancellor? Sun Titan? Heliod? Something else?
Not sure about Knight of the White Orchid over Leonin Arbiter. Taxes is an important part of the deck but so is devotion and plains...Could drop Figure of Destiny to accomidate both Knight and Arbiter.
Looks awesome! Well done. Thank-you for the time and care that went into writing that. I didn't find anything I'd disagree with and it was easy to read, well organized. Maybe in a few months if I get on MTGO I will have a tested deck to submit.
Too bad the 2nd post is a continuation of the old primer!
Here's what I've learned playing my white/green version. Pillow Fort Splashing Green.
Why would you splash Green? Green opens up some very interesting options that you might not consider off the top.
Beast Within - This is a powerful and flexible card that really shines alongside cards like Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety. The 3/3 token you give them is a non-issue much of the time. Keeping the opponent off of a specific colour of mana (or Tron) or having an instant speed answer to cards like Splinter Twin is really great in a slow deck that plays at sorcery speed. In a pinch you can blow up your own permanents (or get a 'free' token by targeting an indestructible Heliod)to go on the offensive or make a profitable combat trade.
Kruphix's Insight - A strong draw engine in an nearly all enchantment deck. You can almost always hit 3 enchantments in most Pillow-Fort builds. Finding your win-con or another prison effect can mean the difference in many games. You can take advantage of the cards that get pitched into the graveyard with Life From the Loam of other recursion effects.
Life From the Loam - Another good draw engine in a slow deck. Pairs very well with Horizon Canopy, Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge as well as any fetch-lands. Many games you'll be happy to crack a Windswept Heath on turn 1 or 2, then Loam it back to make sure you hit your land drops. Loam and Kruphix's Insight together with Horizon Canopy create a very strong draw engine. Adding in other utility lands just increases the power. Running Starfield of Nyx with Loam softens the downside of dredging Loam back. Knowing you can get those Nodes and Prisons out of the yard and into play is just more card advantage!
Choke - is a strong sideboard card for a (mostly) white control deck. An archetype that has historically struggled against counter magic.
Spreading Algae - A great SB card against Grixis and Jund/Junk decks. It can also be a powerful lock piece in it's own right with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. No deck in modern has really been able to take advantage of this card because it's quite slow. Pillow-Fort is a slow deck and could be a natural home for this powerful land destruction engine. To enhance the combo you can try Scepter of Dominance to pro-actively spread the algae. Scepter has additional utility in contributing to devotion (Heliod, Nykthos) and generally messing with the opponent's board - it's not a totally dead card without the combo. The advantage to warping your deck around Spreading Algae is to create a more stable lock. A traditional pillow-fort can have it's pieces dismantled or overcome. By destroying the opponent's primary resource - mana - you make sure they can't come back.
Here's a version of my GW build focusing on Spreading Algae.
This is the deck I've been playing, though not as often as I like. It's mostly based on a White Pillow-Fort deck but I found I truly wanted to lock them out instead of just adding more and more Ghostly Prisons/Sphere of Safety. I'm wondering what advice the LD thread has to offer.
Beast Within + Ghostly Prison is a very versatile combination. I often use the Beast Within to kill lands since that does double duty of keeping them from attacking and from playing future spells.
[card]
Spreading Algae[/card] + Scepter of Dominance = looping LD. Tap their land, get Algae back, play it on another land. Scepter is also useful as a utility card to tap down Splinter Twin guys and key attackers, keeping them off of a colour in Rishadan Port fashion and also helping to get Heliod active.
One interaction that's very strong in this deck is Porphyry Nodes + Heliod. If he's a God then the Nodes stay out forever since they can't kill him, this means the opponent cannot get much use out of their creatures.
Soul Tithe is an odd choice but it taxes them on their early plays while you set-up. Most of all it's versatile like Beast Within. It's reccurable, along with Nodes via Starfield of Nyx. Abrupt Decay is another good choice but this deck is hungry on White mana.
Suppression Field is a strong card for LD decks as it essentially shuts down Fetch-lands with additional LD going on. I would include it in the board.
I think a card that acts like Darksteel Reactor but is much more cohesive with a pillow-fort enchantment build is Helix Pinnacle. It's slow like Darksteel but it also protects itself from all removal except sweepers. It benefits greatly from Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx alongside the Runed Halos, Nevermores and other white enchantment cards that are established core cards of the archetype. If you're looking for a non-interactive win I suggest looking there.
At first you'll want to play mana doublers or even Doubling Season with Helix Pinnacle but I think Nykthos is the way to go for extra mana.
War's Toll looks pretty spicy with the prison cards.
Ajani Vengeant I bet is a favorite card for the player but I think it's questionable to those of us who aren't using him. I think those could happily be 2x Heliod. Especially with 4x Suppression Field in the main deck. Also interesting to see it there as a 4 of maindeck.
It looks like a solid build that has high redundancy and highly potent hate. The mana is solid. A no-nonsense build. This will reward you for knowing your meta-game. Nevermore is so good...and so hard to play well.
Really like the Karma as a natural inclusion, sans Urborg.
Have you ever wanted more Heliod? Like maybe -1 Sphere, +1 Heliod?
The modern event at my store was cancelled due to lack of interest so no reports forthcoming.
Really nice to hear you're still playing the deck. It's a deck you can take to an FNM with a strong hope of winning. That's really all I'm looking for though to get it to play at a higher level would be nice.
Heliod/Nodes is so awesome.
Sounds like graveyard hate would have helped in the Abzan match.
Dr.MarkB, have you considered trying the Algae/Urborg thing? It seems in my experience that it creates a more reliable lock as you're attacking their primary resource (mana) to 'wiggle' out of any soft-locks you manage to get up. I think more and more that Scepter of Dominance is a necessary part of that strategy.
Not sure on Cavern, right now it's a SB card.
@Demannic, a while ago you were playing a GW version with Knight and Dromoka's Command. What did you learn from that? Was it helpful to have the additional threat of Knight? Was Command relevant often enough? You've obviously switched back to black, I presume because you win more with it and not simply out of personal preference. Instead of Tec. Edge, how about Blighted Fen?
@BoBoCTiberious: Your evaluation of those Wish targets seems good. Most of the time I'm wishing for a threat (Knight) or removal. I think I'll cut the Glare/Sledge and add in 2x Dromoka's Charm because I think when it's good it'll be great. I had wanted Sledge as a way to turn 1/1 dorks into threats. It also slots in to combat a lot of matches: Burn, mid-range slugfests, Twin, Blood Moon decks.
General question: How have people found Cavern of Souls in winning the control match-ups? My plan is Emeria/Proc, Cavern for threats and Nihil Spellbomb to kill Snapcaster/Goyf advantages as well as suck out their free delve mana.
1x Forest
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Murmuring Bosk
6x Plains
2x Temple Garden
2x Blighted Woodland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4x Martyr of Sands
3x Ranger of Eos
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Squadron Hawk
2x Sun Titan
2x Weathered Wayfarer
4x Path to Exile
1x Crime/Punishment
3x Glittering Wish
1x Proclamation of Rebirth
3x Wrath of God
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Behemoth Sledge
1x Crime/Punishment
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Glare of Subdual
1x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Orzhov Charm
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
A few card of note:
Blighted Woodland I'm hoping this will facilitate both getting Sun Titan and Emeria on-line. Not sure if it's worth it over running some other utility lands and less basics. Would probably add Vault of the Archangel and Horizon Canopies if I find Blighted Woodland is no good.
Glittering Wish I'm hoping this will give me flexibility to deal with whatever is happening Game 1. I lose more specifically powerful SB options like Stony Silence, so we'll see.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence in the maindeck. I want to be sure I can have a reasonable game against combo and combo-esque decks which Linvala shuts down many.
Crime/Punishment, seems so good on paper. It's white, it's pretty fast and powerful. Both sides are relevant with Wrath turning on Crime. Will MD 2 if it's good.
Thoughts?
3x Auriok Champion
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Chancellor of the Annex
3x Figure of Destiny
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Vryn Wingmare
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
12x Plains
4x Path to Exile
2x Shining Shoal
I'd really like to try out Chancellor of the Annex because I think her turn 1 effect is very interesting combined with Thalia and Vryn Wingmare. Late game she should help keep the taxes level high and casting her is possible off of Nykthos. I'll be running Light Within (x2) from the board for the aggro matches.
What other big drops should I consider over Chancellor? Sun Titan? Heliod? Something else?
Not sure about Knight of the White Orchid over Leonin Arbiter. Taxes is an important part of the deck but so is devotion and plains...Could drop Figure of Destiny to accomidate both Knight and Arbiter.
Any thoughts?
Too bad the 2nd post is a continuation of the old primer!
Why would you splash Green? Green opens up some very interesting options that you might not consider off the top.
Beast Within - This is a powerful and flexible card that really shines alongside cards like Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety. The 3/3 token you give them is a non-issue much of the time. Keeping the opponent off of a specific colour of mana (or Tron) or having an instant speed answer to cards like Splinter Twin is really great in a slow deck that plays at sorcery speed. In a pinch you can blow up your own permanents (or get a 'free' token by targeting an indestructible Heliod)to go on the offensive or make a profitable combat trade.
Kruphix's Insight - A strong draw engine in an nearly all enchantment deck. You can almost always hit 3 enchantments in most Pillow-Fort builds. Finding your win-con or another prison effect can mean the difference in many games. You can take advantage of the cards that get pitched into the graveyard with Life From the Loam of other recursion effects.
Life From the Loam - Another good draw engine in a slow deck. Pairs very well with Horizon Canopy, Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge as well as any fetch-lands. Many games you'll be happy to crack a Windswept Heath on turn 1 or 2, then Loam it back to make sure you hit your land drops. Loam and Kruphix's Insight together with Horizon Canopy create a very strong draw engine. Adding in other utility lands just increases the power. Running Starfield of Nyx with Loam softens the downside of dredging Loam back. Knowing you can get those Nodes and Prisons out of the yard and into play is just more card advantage!
Choke - is a strong sideboard card for a (mostly) white control deck. An archetype that has historically struggled against counter magic.
Spreading Algae - A great SB card against Grixis and Jund/Junk decks. It can also be a powerful lock piece in it's own right with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. No deck in modern has really been able to take advantage of this card because it's quite slow. Pillow-Fort is a slow deck and could be a natural home for this powerful land destruction engine. To enhance the combo you can try Scepter of Dominance to pro-actively spread the algae. Scepter has additional utility in contributing to devotion (Heliod, Nykthos) and generally messing with the opponent's board - it's not a totally dead card without the combo. The advantage to warping your deck around Spreading Algae is to create a more stable lock. A traditional pillow-fort can have it's pieces dismantled or overcome. By destroying the opponent's primary resource - mana - you make sure they can't come back.
Here's a version of my GW build focusing on Spreading Algae.
4x Ghostly Prison
2x Greater Auramancy
4x Leyline of Sanctity
4x Porphyry Nodes
4x Runed Halo
3x Soul Tithe
2x Heliod, God of the Sun
1x Sphere of Safety
1x Starfield of Nyx
2x Idyllic Tutor
2x Scepter of Dominance
1x Forest
2x Horizon Canopy
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Plains
3x Stirring Wildwood
3x Temple Garden
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
How do you put text/decks inside of those blue buttons to hide/un-hide them?Edit: Thanks Irmo for the info on how to 'spoil' things.
I like Idylic Tutor, especially with Nytkhos mana. More likely to offset the mana cost of the tutor.
I wish I could offer help but I don't think I can be reliable enough to get anything done on time. Anyone else out there want to help Dr.MarkB?
This is the deck I've been playing, though not as often as I like. It's mostly based on a White Pillow-Fort deck but I found I truly wanted to lock them out instead of just adding more and more Ghostly Prisons/Sphere of Safety. I'm wondering what advice the LD thread has to offer.
Beast Within + Ghostly Prison is a very versatile combination. I often use the Beast Within to kill lands since that does double duty of keeping them from attacking and from playing future spells.
[card]
Spreading Algae[/card] + Scepter of Dominance = looping LD. Tap their land, get Algae back, play it on another land. Scepter is also useful as a utility card to tap down Splinter Twin guys and key attackers, keeping them off of a colour in Rishadan Port fashion and also helping to get Heliod active.
One interaction that's very strong in this deck is Porphyry Nodes + Heliod. If he's a God then the Nodes stay out forever since they can't kill him, this means the opponent cannot get much use out of their creatures.
Soul Tithe is an odd choice but it taxes them on their early plays while you set-up. Most of all it's versatile like Beast Within. It's reccurable, along with Nodes via Starfield of Nyx. Abrupt Decay is another good choice but this deck is hungry on White mana.
Suppression Field is a strong card for LD decks as it essentially shuts down Fetch-lands with additional LD going on. I would include it in the board.
2x Greater Auramancy
4x Leyline of Sanctity
4x Porphyry Nodes
4x Runed Halo
3x Soul Tithe
4x Spreading Algae
2x Starfield of Nyx
3x Scepter of Dominance
3x Heliod, God of the Sun
1x Forest
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Marsh Flats
4x Plains
3x Stirring Wildwood
4x Temple Garden
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
You win with Heliod or Starfield or Stirring Wildwoods.
At first you'll want to play mana doublers or even Doubling Season with Helix Pinnacle but I think Nykthos is the way to go for extra mana.
Also, if you're in green, I will say Beast Within is a very powerful card with Ghostly Prison and Porphyry Nodes.
Ajani Vengeant I bet is a favorite card for the player but I think it's questionable to those of us who aren't using him. I think those could happily be 2x Heliod. Especially with 4x Suppression Field in the main deck. Also interesting to see it there as a 4 of maindeck.
Thanks for posting. Keepin' the thread warm
Really like the Karma as a natural inclusion, sans Urborg.
Have you ever wanted more Heliod? Like maybe -1 Sphere, +1 Heliod?
Really nice to hear you're still playing the deck. It's a deck you can take to an FNM with a strong hope of winning. That's really all I'm looking for though to get it to play at a higher level would be nice.
Heliod/Nodes is so awesome.
Sounds like graveyard hate would have helped in the Abzan match.
Dr.MarkB, have you considered trying the Algae/Urborg thing? It seems in my experience that it creates a more reliable lock as you're attacking their primary resource (mana) to 'wiggle' out of any soft-locks you manage to get up. I think more and more that Scepter of Dominance is a necessary part of that strategy.