1) But why are you sure enough that's not the case to lynch him?
2) What do we do if we hit that failcase? Who looks Town or Scum in light of a kjtown flip? I feel like we'd go into D2 and just be like "yup, kj beefed this game up" because that's usually how metamislynching goes.
I’m pretty sure I’m right and it’s going to be delicious. I know some of you aren’t swayed by meta, which is understandable, but a quick dip into a few of KJ’s previous games show an entirely different play style in those game’s day ones alone. The argument that he hasn’t done anything objectively scummy is whatever, but he hasn’t done much of anything AI, which is imo a scummy look for him.
At this stage of the game, everything is objective. You need to use whatever information is available to inform decisions.
Tell me what he’s done that is objectively town? If he’s null at best than you need to consider the meta and take a quick peek at Day One of Watchmen, GoT for the most current examples of what I’m seeing. Someone with mad tech skills could maybe link them?
Oh absolutely nothing. I'm not opposed to him dying in the abstract, I'm just bothered by the reasons because it seems like the case is entirely meta and that's spooky to me.
You can consider my question in #792 to be at you also.
But i also think his questions are leading and yet still dont go anywhere
his opinion on my read of zion is that i thought about it too much and thats scummy
His reponse to me pushing him hard is to throw a bunch of dismissive bull***** at the wall and shout into the void that theres scum on his wagon
I agree with the first sentence - he was one of the two that originally pinged me for it. I don't see how that indicates scum rather than overly hyper town, though. Like, it's not strong townplay but it might be townplay.
Can you pull quote for the 2nd sentence? I'll go read back for the 3rd.
So, with specific regards to tom's "excitedly premature" comment... I felt it jumped past the most obvious motives for Zionite's early posts without fully eliminating them. It felt... also premature. I'll let you know if this changes as I'm still on page 4 rn.
I looked over Zionite's games and he's correct, that behavior isn't typical. Which makes his initial bloodthirst potentially a thing (on page 4).
ok like yeah this is a really bad take (and took me forever to parse) but I don't see how it makes him scum, and isn't just a bad take
like, I can see your point that if apparently he's a really good town player, yet this is how he's playing this game, that pings you, but here's what I'm worried about - say you're right on meta, and this is super atypical of kjtown. What makes him Scum and not Town having an off game? If he's not doing anything that would be scummy if someone else did it, then I'm worried it's a sign he's not really Scum.
Put another way, is this play typical of kjscum and not just atypical of kjtown?
if objective evidence doesnt exist, then what are we doing here?
I'll eat my god damn words if Killjoy flips wolf off what hes done so far,
like I am not saying he has to be town, but I just don't see what he is done that is wolfy, and most of this is just, "Its not really wolfy, its just wolfy for killjoy"
and I am like, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh? no thanks?
I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do. I was starting to think I was crazy with everyone being on the KJ train.
But i also think his questions are leading and yet still dont go anywhere
his opinion on my read of zion is that i thought about it too much and thats scummy
His reponse to me pushing him hard is to throw a bunch of dismissive bull***** at the wall and shout into the void that theres scum on his wagon
I agree with the first sentence - he was one of the two that originally pinged me for it. I don't see how that indicates scum rather than overly hyper town, though. Like, it's not strong townplay but it might be townplay.
Can you pull quote for the 2nd sentence? I'll go read back for the 3rd.
C'mon Tom. He wants to see something behavioral that's not just "this is not town kj"
You know this. IDK why you're pretending not to.
yes, i believe I've given that and im just watching him refuse to engage with it or work with anyone
(Also real talk, as with all alts/new players i assume its voxx until proven otherwise. Currently dont think its likely but if it is hes extremely obviously scum)
Wbere??? I keep asking you and keep getting a brick wall of "just read several games of kj meta pogchamp"
Also not I'm not an alt of anyone, last should be able to confirm.
@killjoy honestly I don't remember, I had a good reason for it at some point but I forget the reason and retain the feeling. I can go back if this is super important to you?
Sure, ignore the tools at your disposal. Sounds like a good plan.
Kj is a good lynch because hes going to flip scum.
Asking me to sheep you based upon meta of someone I've never played with is exactly that - ignoring the tools at my disposal.
The tools I have are the standard scumhunting set and I'm going to use them rather than abdicate all power to meta.
so learn some kj meta my dude.
Or... you know... stop insisting this is all meta when it does, in fact, include a demonstrable lack of solving overall and in particular in response to pressure.
Surely youd have more success if youre town trying to figure out kj for yourself rather than attacking <the buzzword version of my reasoning and not the reasoning itself>
If that's the case, why was your response to "show me something objectively scummy" basically a paragraph long version of "can't it's 20 games of meta"?
If it's not all meta show me and I'll be happy to roll with you. I know you made #728 but I didn't see much scummy in that post.
Hey @Flargh: Do you think there's scum on the Zion wagon?
Possible. I read Jack as Town, so not there. Slothful's been making good points but I don't know that I Town read him for it, and KCC I don't have a strong read on.
The hesitancy to a lack of counter wagon wasn't me saying there was Scum on Zion already, but me saying that Scum might just be fine with the wagon. Not to say that Zion isn't a good wagon - there's a reason my vote is still there, but it made me leery enough to want to see what happened if we had Zion v someone else for a wagon.
Asking me to sheep you based upon meta of someone I've never played with is exactly that - ignoring the tools at my disposal.
The tools I have are the standard scumhunting set and I'm going to use them rather than abdicate all power to meta.
And if more than one person vouches for tom's meta read?
Then they can do that and get you one person closer to 8. I'm not going to vote KJ off of it. If you can't show me he's scum using a non-meta argument you don't have my vote.
Actually though, is there something specific bothering you? I don’t accept you hand waving all of my posts as nothing, or how it’s even relevant.
I said what was bothering me. I am not hand waving your posts away, I just see them as fluff posting without actually attempting to game solve. If the day were to end in 5 minutes, I am voting who I want gone right now.
As far as how its relevant. The entire point of this game is to solve or try to look like your solving. I don't feel like you are solving. You received my vote. I haven't played in a while, but I think that's what you are supposed to do?
Days since I’ve been told I’m both fluffing too much and not enough: 0
You are applying irrelevant meta to me, and I will ignore it accordingly.
Would you like to do something productive with me? Make something beautiful together? I’m open to suggestions.
How is this "irrelevant meta"? Not saying I agree or disagree with the assertion that you're posting and not being solve-y, but that's a pretty good indicator of Scum in general. That's not meta against you, that's just what Scum often do because they have TMI to solve.
It’s something I’m attacked for all the time, town or scum. How I solve apparently doesn’t look traditionally solvey enough, and the argument pops up every time I play with someone unfamiliar. Or an oldie with a bad memory.
So... GJ's made a legitimate point that this is how Scum looks, and you're using meta as a defense, then? That's what I gather from this. It's pretty much entirely backwards from what you made it sound like originally.
If this is apparently something that always happens and other players can verify it I'm ok with the meta defense, just don't think it's fair you dismissed it the way you did.
2) What do we do if we hit that failcase? Who looks Town or Scum in light of a kjtown flip? I feel like we'd go into D2 and just be like "yup, kj beefed this game up" because that's usually how metamislynching goes.
Oh absolutely nothing. I'm not opposed to him dying in the abstract, I'm just bothered by the reasons because it seems like the case is entirely meta and that's spooky to me.
You can consider my question in #792 to be at you also.
ok like yeah this is a really bad take (and took me forever to parse) but I don't see how it makes him scum, and isn't just a bad take
like, I can see your point that if apparently he's a really good town player, yet this is how he's playing this game, that pings you, but here's what I'm worried about - say you're right on meta, and this is super atypical of kjtown. What makes him Scum and not Town having an off game? If he's not doing anything that would be scummy if someone else did it, then I'm worried it's a sign he's not really Scum.
Put another way, is this play typical of kjscum and not just atypical of kjtown?
I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do. I was starting to think I was crazy with everyone being on the KJ train.
I agree with the first sentence - he was one of the two that originally pinged me for it. I don't see how that indicates scum rather than overly hyper town, though. Like, it's not strong townplay but it might be townplay.
Can you pull quote for the 2nd sentence? I'll go read back for the 3rd.
Should be obvious. Zion. If it was anyone else my vote would be on them.
Wbere??? I keep asking you and keep getting a brick wall of "just read several games of kj meta pogchamp"
Also not I'm not an alt of anyone, last should be able to confirm.
@killjoy honestly I don't remember, I had a good reason for it at some point but I forget the reason and retain the feeling. I can go back if this is super important to you?
If that's the case, why was your response to "show me something objectively scummy" basically a paragraph long version of "can't it's 20 games of meta"?
If it's not all meta show me and I'll be happy to roll with you. I know you made #728 but I didn't see much scummy in that post.
Possible. I read Jack as Town, so not there. Slothful's been making good points but I don't know that I Town read him for it, and KCC I don't have a strong read on.
The hesitancy to a lack of counter wagon wasn't me saying there was Scum on Zion already, but me saying that Scum might just be fine with the wagon. Not to say that Zion isn't a good wagon - there's a reason my vote is still there, but it made me leery enough to want to see what happened if we had Zion v someone else for a wagon.
Then they can do that and get you one person closer to 8. I'm not going to vote KJ off of it. If you can't show me he's scum using a non-meta argument you don't have my vote.
Asking me to sheep you based upon meta of someone I've never played with is exactly that - ignoring the tools at my disposal.
The tools I have are the standard scumhunting set and I'm going to use them rather than abdicate all power to meta.
might go back to Zi later but we need another wagon
So... GJ's made a legitimate point that this is how Scum looks, and you're using meta as a defense, then? That's what I gather from this. It's pretty much entirely backwards from what you made it sound like originally.
If this is apparently something that always happens and other players can verify it I'm ok with the meta defense, just don't think it's fair you dismissed it the way you did.