Ftr flarg still hasnt even pretended to give an actual read on kj.
Like, zero words in his iso about why kj is town and lots about why i shouldnt be listened to and yet it somehow presents as a strong townread of kj in all his actions
Hes now added some kind of game state read where hes saying the wagons are the same alignment thats just
Well i dont think i need to say why this is scummy in v/w wagons and im having trouble seeing someone that so intentionally and intrinsically <something rude about refusing to accept that people play differently from each other> even making that sort of read in the first place.
I definitely have said it before, but I'll state it again. I'm not really strongly reading KJ either way. I think the case on him doesn't really have merit but it's not because I townread KJ, it's just because I think the case is flawed.
I don't get why you're so pissed about this. I'm one player in a 15p game, if you don't get my vote, then so what? That's not "refusing to accept people play the game differently" - if I don't want to play the game on meta, why can't you accept that. You can still get to 8 without me if enough people agree with you. You can't just redefine "acceptance" to be "sheep me and/our don't argue with my case".
Just finished ISOing Rhand, Tubba, and Grape - it's nutty to me that anyone TRs Tubba. He's taken so few stances outside of KJ/Zion/Jack. I would actually be totally okay with a CFD here.
Rhand seems fine, his analysis of the wagons in his big post seems pretty accurate.
Grape is nullish but good enough for now. I hate his lack of push between Jack and sheeping tom onto KJ but the posts all read tonally genuine so it's kind of a wash.
I don't really have any desire to lynch Sloth and I'm pretty hard on Tom as Town actually. Some of the stuff w/r/t him on me is too authentically grumpy townie to be faked imo.
Given the progression (or lack thereof) on the wagons, I think you and KJ are same alignment.
If you flip town then I'm betting KJ is too and I think I look at low posters and maybe KCC?
@Anyone: Does this forum have decent ISO functionality? Can I see # of posts in thread per player?
B. Gentleman Johnny
C. Lastwhisper
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
Way too many unsorted here. Flarg is next after KJ? Tubba way too high? Wat? Not what I was expecting.
one of the more egregious examples of "I am convinced X player is Scum and Y player is defending him so he must be Scum too" I've seen in a while lol
but yeah I disagree with this reads list a lot - tubba way too high, ter, grape too high, lw at null seems weird (i can see people going either way but he should be sortable)
Somebody talk to me about how the game sits. It seems to me like both KJ and Zionite can’t be town. Otherwise one of them would be dead by now?
If KJ is town I’d look hard at Grape. Grape is on the fringes of the game which is a scummy look for him, and his hop on could be seen as opportunistic fitting in with his cell mate Tom.
If Zion is town I’m staring right at Flarg. He’s discrediting the KJ meta read, and ostensibly pushing a Zionite world, but there’s no real weight to it. I don’t feel like he’s really trying to convince people to join him there, or to actively move off KJ.
That’s true of most slots voting on these two right now, not much effort to move the needle either way.
I'm actually leaning the other way, if Zion is Town I'm ready to conclude KJ is too. This feels like a TvT wagon split where Scum doesn't need to do anything.
Either way, I want to look at the low posters, I think we have multiple Scum there.
This is all @ Zion's wall but I'm not using the quote feature because that's ass with such a long post. (split it up!!)
Why wouldn't you start one? Surely I'm not the only scum right? This feels real odd coming from a town-read of mine and now IGMEOY.
A few reasons. One's that while I dislike seeing one guy get run up alone, that doesn't mean that you're still not Scum and I still don't want a wagon on you to see how people play around both.
tbh, though, the main reason was that I had no other strong scumreads at the time and didn't want to go back and reread hundreds of posts of a pretty boring d1 to form those reads.
I had already led the wagon on you, I'm not sure why I need to lead every wagon. Allow a bit of hyperbole here, but "FlargBlarg please solve the whole game" isn't really a reasonable ask.
Flarg stop being scummy it's seriously throwing me off now.
What's wrong with having two wagons? It's a great gamestate to analyze.
Name anything objectively scummy so I can take notes. Very dismissive.
Sure.
Active lurking
Saying you're suspicious of X and never voting them/not following up
Hedging on magor wagons
Spreading FUD
Strawmanning arguments
Like, you've played mafia before, clearly, this should not be new to you? Maybe my use of "objective" is throwing people off, I mean "things that are generally accepted to be scumtells" as opposed to "things that are scumtells for player xyz because of meta reascn abc"
Flarg is putting a ton of effort into questioning the KJ wagon, and I can't tell if it's just me, but I don't think he's done any of that for Zionite. "What makes Zionite scum and not just town having an off game?" and such. I don't get it.
No, of course I haven't. I question the meta argument on KJ because I think it's incredibly flawed. I have not questioned the case on the guy I'm trying to lynch because a) it's not my job to play prosecutor and defense for the same guy, and b) literally the crux of my entire argument is that the things Zion has done are scummy and not just weird things for Zion to be doing.
I definitely have said it before, but I'll state it again. I'm not really strongly reading KJ either way. I think the case on him doesn't really have merit but it's not because I townread KJ, it's just because I think the case is flawed.
I don't get why you're so pissed about this. I'm one player in a 15p game, if you don't get my vote, then so what? That's not "refusing to accept people play the game differently" - if I don't want to play the game on meta, why can't you accept that. You can still get to 8 without me if enough people agree with you. You can't just redefine "acceptance" to be "sheep me and/our don't argue with my case".
Rhand seems fine, his analysis of the wagons in his big post seems pretty accurate.
Grape is nullish but good enough for now. I hate his lack of push between Jack and sheeping tom onto KJ but the posts all read tonally genuine so it's kind of a wash.
Given the progression (or lack thereof) on the wagons, I think you and KJ are same alignment.
If you flip town then I'm betting KJ is too and I think I look at low posters and maybe KCC?
@Anyone: Does this forum have decent ISO functionality? Can I see # of posts in thread per player?
one of the more egregious examples of "I am convinced X player is Scum and Y player is defending him so he must be Scum too" I've seen in a while lol
but yeah I disagree with this reads list a lot - tubba way too high, ter, grape too high, lw at null seems weird (i can see people going either way but he should be sortable)
I'm actually leaning the other way, if Zion is Town I'm ready to conclude KJ is too. This feels like a TvT wagon split where Scum doesn't need to do anything.
Either way, I want to look at the low posters, I think we have multiple Scum there.
TP that wins if Player X gets lynched, loses otherwise.
We should kill the lyncher talk though, he's clearly not one and it's just a distraction.
No, not until L-2 or closer to deadline.
A few reasons. One's that while I dislike seeing one guy get run up alone, that doesn't mean that you're still not Scum and I still don't want a wagon on you to see how people play around both.
tbh, though, the main reason was that I had no other strong scumreads at the time and didn't want to go back and reread hundreds of posts of a pretty boring d1 to form those reads.
I had already led the wagon on you, I'm not sure why I need to lead every wagon. Allow a bit of hyperbole here, but "FlargBlarg please solve the whole game" isn't really a reasonable ask.
What's wrong with having two wagons? It's a great gamestate to analyze.
Sure.
Active lurking
Saying you're suspicious of X and never voting them/not following up
Hedging on magor wagons
Spreading FUD
Strawmanning arguments
Like, you've played mafia before, clearly, this should not be new to you? Maybe my use of "objective" is throwing people off, I mean "things that are generally accepted to be scumtells" as opposed to "things that are scumtells for player xyz because of meta reascn abc"
No, of course I haven't. I question the meta argument on KJ because I think it's incredibly flawed. I have not questioned the case on the guy I'm trying to lynch because a) it's not my job to play prosecutor and defense for the same guy, and b) literally the crux of my entire argument is that the things Zion has done are scummy and not just weird things for Zion to be doing.