After that he does nothing relevant for a while, then comes back with a series of posts that end with him voting Zionite : #270, #275 and #280 (there are also unrelated posts inbetween that I don't think are relevant either way). In a vacuum and from a distance, these posts are fine: Flarg notices the game overall had a bad content ratio, notices two players in particular with a bad content ratio, and votes one of them.
However, there's a couple things I want to point out about that vote.
First, Zionite was already attracting attention. Rhand voted then attacked him in #110 and #112, tom defended him in #128 and #136, Grapefruit21 mentionned town-reading him in #162 Slothful voted him in #178, Jackrito weakly barned Slothful in #204, Lastwhisper weakly defended him in #209 (I hope I didn't miss anything). By the time FlargBlarg joined the wagon, Zionite was already a controversial figure.
Now, had Flarg merely barned or repeated the arguments already made by Rhand and Slothful, I would have seen nothing wrong with his voted. But here comes the second thing I want to point out: he didn't. Instead he made an extremely weak argument about Zionite not finding scum among the then-active players (at a time when there weren't that many of them, and it therefore wouldn't be weird to town-read or null-read them all; also keep that argument in mind, we will come back to it later). The addition of that weak argument shows self-consciousness about joining a wagon, ironically making it look even more like an opportunistic, rather than natural, vote. That's Exhibit #1 of FlargBlarg taking an opportunistic stance.
actually I'm salty and gonna post
I was ******* second on the Zion wagon, and have absolutely no idea how you can define that as opportunistic. My argument wasn't that Zion was not finding Scum, it's that page 3/4 had nothing going on but a lot of words and felt weird. I reread it and (correctly) identified KJ as Town who was overeager, so the scum ping must've come from Zion. I helped break RVS by being one of the first people here to cast a serious vote. but apparently that's opportunistic because clearly Scum want to do that.
Your point where if I had "merely barned or repeated the arguments already made by Rhand and Slothful" is a classic damned if you do damned if you don't. Had I repeated them you'd just come after me for making a safe argument that someone else had made, because I didn't want to stick my neck out by making an original argument.
...if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
@zionite I was actually a town doc/Roleblocker in Cyberpunk.
But yeah, I've been a role blocker as town before. It's in my stats.
Jailer and JoaT type roles are much more common though. On sites with a decently evolved mafia scene, town RB in normals is pretty uncommon. Not unheard of but improbable.
If you've been it before as Town, that actually skews me more towards fakeclaim, since that would affect your perception of how uncommon it is.
How dismissive Flarge and Zion are who were hard defending KJ bothers me. I mean he could still be a scum RB but my first response to someone claiming if I townread them is not they are lying lynch them, With no thought time. I'm scum reading KJ and his claim makes me see him as more town even if just a tiny bit.
Now need to fully read ZDS post and see if it changes my view on him at all
I don't need a lot of thought time to tell you that most instances where I've seen someone claim town RB in a setup like this (not role madness) they've been Scum.
@sloth: What does "no cfd" mean? Are you saying that no other wagons should start today?
CFD (Chinese Firework Day) is, as I remember, essentially foregoing all arguments and cases made on a strong wagon thus far to just essentially pick a target and voting them off in as random as manner as possible in mafia.
I loathe it honestly, but I have seen it work.
Except in this instance. We have contending wagons, and one has to be resolved. Losing our focus muddles and loses the game. I go over this more in #1119 and #1123.
I mean, if I'm a counterwagon to Zionite why'd it take so long? Zionite got a bunch of pressure early, with almost no pushback.
This is not really a point, honestly. It doesn't matter when a counterwagon rises so long as one does - and yours did, as I already said, around the midpoint of the Day.
If anything one raising immediately to protect Zionite would be very damning if Z still gets the lynch and flips red. Plus there was also the chance that scum!Zionite would have been able to get out of the chopping block on his own without his teammates being forced to show their hands.
None of this is a guarantee, but it does show that, yes, the timing does not matter, so long as there is one.
Also clarify this for me - wrong in what way? Scummier or Townier than you thought?
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I've heard it as Chinese Fire Drill but boy this is a strawmann-y argument against it.
It's just a late-in-the-day decision that based upon what we've learned, the wagons are likely Town, and we should pivot to scummier targets. It's not an choice to herp derp rando lynch, but a change based on having more information than we had when we built the current wagons.
I definitely don't think it's bullying or anything that strong, but ngl it's a pretty rough D1 to walk into where it seems like a lot of the thread is meta-ing people based off years of familiarity and I've gotten some pretty harsh pushback on being unwilling to read over old games to try and meta people. Unwelcoming is actually a good choice of words there.
Dude, I'm new too - and I can guarantee I'm not planning to read a SINGLE past game on this site unless I 100% no-other-choice have to (or unless it's Vaimes' GoT game).
It's probably more content and perception. Work on game solving.
You gonna do a wall/link me to one?
Speaking of, aren't several players pending providing that? Our two current wagons included.
If people want to shade me for not gamesolving enough, that's more or less fair, but I did lead one of the two big wagons so *shrug*
No, I think walls are the epitome of quantity over quality and it's pretty clear at this point that we only have two potential lynches so I don't think it's useful.
Sorry im being unwelcoming and bullying to people that play differently to me again.
Everyone is, of course, welcome to ignore whatever part of the game they want
Wow people have a very extreme idea of what bullying is around here if you think this is something to apologize for lol.
Regarding Flarg, you know that a Zion flip will probably provide more insight into his alignment/motivations than anything else, right?
I definitely don't think it's bullying or anything that strong, but ngl it's a pretty rough D1 to walk into where it seems like a lot of the thread is meta-ing people based off years of familiarity and I've gotten some pretty harsh pushback on being unwilling to read over old games to try and meta people. Unwelcoming is actually a good choice of words there.
actually I'm salty and gonna post
I was ******* second on the Zion wagon, and have absolutely no idea how you can define that as opportunistic. My argument wasn't that Zion was not finding Scum, it's that page 3/4 had nothing going on but a lot of words and felt weird. I reread it and (correctly) identified KJ as Town who was overeager, so the scum ping must've come from Zion. I helped break RVS by being one of the first people here to cast a serious vote. but apparently that's opportunistic because clearly Scum want to do that.
Your point where if I had "merely barned or repeated the arguments already made by Rhand and Slothful" is a classic damned if you do damned if you don't. Had I repeated them you'd just come after me for making a safe argument that someone else had made, because I didn't want to stick my neck out by making an original argument.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
I have never had KJ at town, only null. I'vr said this repeatedly.
Jailer and JoaT type roles are much more common though. On sites with a decently evolved mafia scene, town RB in normals is pretty uncommon. Not unheard of but improbable.
If you've been it before as Town, that actually skews me more towards fakeclaim, since that would affect your perception of how uncommon it is.
I'll address the substance of the post later when I'm free but massive eyeroll at that.
Because given KJ's claim I want to lynch in that direction now.
As for why I didn't vote KJ, see your second sentence.
I don't need a lot of thought time to tell you that most instances where I've seen someone claim town RB in a setup like this (not role madness) they've been Scum.
He has a provable PR that's super common for Scum and uncommon for town and generally more likely to hit Town if you fire blindly.
I've heard it as Chinese Fire Drill but boy this is a strawmann-y argument against it.
It's just a late-in-the-day decision that based upon what we've learned, the wagons are likely Town, and we should pivot to scummier targets. It's not an choice to herp derp rando lynch, but a change based on having more information than we had when we built the current wagons.
No, I think walls are the epitome of quantity over quality and it's pretty clear at this point that we only have two potential lynches so I don
If people want to shade me for not gamesolving enough, that's more or less fair, but I did lead one of the two big wagons so *shrug*
No, I think walls are the epitome of quantity over quality and it's pretty clear at this point that we only have two potential lynches so I don't think it's useful.
I don't understand your last sentence?
I definitely don't think it's bullying or anything that strong, but ngl it's a pretty rough D1 to walk into where it seems like a lot of the thread is meta-ing people based off years of familiarity and I've gotten some pretty harsh pushback on being unwilling to read over old games to try and meta people. Unwelcoming is actually a good choice of words there.
you got it