ruin christmas - this seems strong to me but I suppose it's fine. Wasn't there an orzhov card (or maybe just an alara block card) that could give either their stuff -1/-1 or your stuff +1/+1, and it was a WB instant?
sketchy - ehhh...I'm not a fan of giving blue overpowered weenies as legends. A 2/2 for :symw:, maybe, but I don't think blue should get something like that.
(Sidenote: would a 0/1 unblockable for be kinda neat and johnny-ish, or totally dumb?)
shimmering mine - I believe someone (maybe a couple people) have posted this exact card fairly recently. I think the card is fine. Probably only better than the Alara ETBT tri-lands in an enemy wedge deck. Worse than the ETBT tri-lands in an allied wedge deck. Worse than the refuges in an allied two-color deck. Equal to the ETBT tri-lands in an enemy two-color deck. Maybe better, maybe worse than the ETBT tri-lands in 4-5 color decks. That's my analysis.
Interestingly, I looked up old posts of mine and sometime last year or so I posted a land that was just "ETBT. Tap to add 1 mana of any color." What was I thinking?!? I think my only slight excuse is that it was before Alara came out, and my card was going to be rare.
Except that it totally does, because a creature with an ability that is related to +1/+1 counters is a synergistic combo with a land that puts counters on your creatures. The fact that most decks that would run this guy are already running Oran-Rief means that he is going to be considered for those decks automaitcally, and the dynamic power of the card combined with Oran-Rief, letting you play it at any part of your curve, means it will probably be shortlisted for any Elf tribal decks as long as it is in Standard. If you don't realize how strong this is, you are underestimating both this card and Oran-Rief considerably.
What r_e meant is that oran-rief's effect literally just replaces one multikick activation of this guy. So instead of paying :1mana::symg: you can just tap oran-rief. Oran-rief could have been tapped for anyway, so what you really did was save on one multikick activation.
It's not that the cards don't work together, they do. But the rief can't continue to put counters on the guy, or put counters on him the turn after he comes into play, so really it has to be compared to his :1mana::symg: multikicker, and what it does is save you a mana. This is good of course, and since you're playing the land anyway, it makes sense. It just isn't something ridiculously special.
Here is a list of complicated cards I propose to make mythic:
> Circle of Protection: Red: Can't prevent damage from Ghostfire. Counter-intuitive.
> Cancel: Countering spell is hard. People might get confused by the fact that you cannot, in fact, counter a permanent. Counter-intuitive.
> Consume Spirit: Can hit planeswalkers, even though it doesn't say so on the card. How counter-intuitive.
> Mountain: Doesn't say that it taps for red mana, although it does. Also is not red. Extremely counter-intuitive.
> Giant Growth: It doesn't say 'the beginning of the end step', while Ball Lightning does. They used to say the same thing in the days of yore. Why?
Counter-intuitive.
I see what you're doing, k-rad...you're turning "complexity is one of many concepts that goes into determining a card's rarity" into "complexity is why cards are rare!"
Except no one said that. Why not try responding to arguments actually made instead of being "clever" and knocking down ridiculous straw men?
Silvercut: I think the :2mana::symb::symr: version of your legend-killer fits best, given Tsabo Tavoc and the fact that it likely won't be killing any enchantments. This (and my card) is the kind of ability that is probably pretty irrelevant until something like Kamigawa comes along. (Although I could see it as sideboard tech if there was some powerful legend with shroud that became a big staple)
Thank you for the clever diversion clear-up. I think I may actually turn it into a red/green gold card and go with quietmarketer's idea.
mark of the creator - yes, that's the wording I meant. I planned on it being a rare, too.
reemergence - you make an interesting point that I hadn't thought of. I'm not sure how much of a problem it is if you draw another copy, but I like your new version. I don't think it is that different from mine at all - it's a neat extension of the card's flavor, what with your lands (and now creatures) reemerging into your library (and maybe into your hand). Mind if I use it in my set? I'm thinking it could even be a mythic at this point.
r_e: thanks. I wanted scout's outpost to be an uncommon.
I think Dampen Wills (or "Levy" :)) could cost :1mana::symw: but going with Smoke's cost seemed cute.
This card seems OFF in two ways to me.
First it's a Sorcery rather than an instant.
The cost is too high for the limited targets.
And, if it is going to cost :1mana::symr::symr: it should
"Destroy all artifacts, if artifact destroyed is legendary,
exile it instead"
Most "destroy all" effects are sorceries, and the card you're describing is way better than Shatterstorm. A :3mana::symr::symr: Shatterstorm that exiled legendary artifacts (or did something extra worse to them) might be interesting though.
Put an 1/1 red Diversion creature Token with haste into play. Diversion creature has "all creatures able to block Diversion creature must block it" Diversion creature gets +1/+1 for each blocking creature.
That's a great idea! I like that a lot. Even though its effect is to make your other creatures unblockable, I sort of think the card feels green now. Maybe gold?
Finally a good "creature enchantment" though
this one seems overpowered. Compare it to
Celestial Mantle LOL
Not really sure I see any similarity between the two enchantments. Are you just saying that mine should cost about 6 too? I wasn't sure, given that it is potentially amazing but also just puts a huge bullseye on your creature's head.
I think you mean COLOUR CORRECTED
Ha! Thanks!
Wow, this and Reset on an Isochron would be evil.
I hadn't thought of the isochron interactions. Evil, but still printable?
Actually, a better version of diversion (lulz) might be this:
For each untapped creature target player controls, put a 1/1 red Elemental creature token into play with haste and "This creature must be blocked by exactly one creature if able". Exile those tokens at end of turn.
I like this too. But can they avoid it by just not blocking those 1/1s (and choosing to block your other dudes instead)?
Scout's Outpost would need some more mana for its second ability if it read "All blocking creatures" instead of "Target creature".
Agreed. I like it how it is now, nice and simple.
Reemergence is stupid. Black and red are the ones that sacrifice lands, not green. And at that cost, it should be "Draw a card for each land you control".
Stupid? That's not very nice. Black is the color of sacrificing creatures too, but green gets Nature's Resurgence. And although drawing from dead creatures could easily fit black, green is the color that most cares about lands (in play or otherwise). Think of my card as just as much about rebounding from your opponent killing your lands as it is about benefiting from sacrificing your own.
I said I costed it so high because of my concern with dredge interactions, but I'm open to costing it lower or modifying it somehow. Of course, the card you describe just obsoletes Flow of Ideas, although I agree that it does fit green.
Now what about "Draw a card for each land card in all graveyards" at 6 mana? Now you get to draw from your opponent's dead lands too.
Another idea (borrowing from flow of ideas and QuietMarketer's suggestion) would be "Draw a card for each forest you control, then untap all forests you control." That should cost :4mana::symg::symg::symg: or so, and feels rather powerful to me. It would need a new name then.
I agree that it should be sorcery speed. At 2BB, it would just be worse than the standard black tutor, but at BB it does seem too cheap. 1BB might work.
Trash Priceless Relics :1mana::symr::symr:
Sorcery
Destroy all legendary artifacts. They can't be regenerated. "This probably needs a better name," said the goblin.
Clever Diversion :3mana::symr:
Sorcery
Put a 1/1 red [something] creature token with haste and "this creature must be blocked" into play for each untapped creature target player controls.
^I'm not sure if this works. it's supposed to create a 1/1 diversion for each of your opponent's creatures to have to block, to let your other dudes get through.
Mark of the Creator :2mana::symg::symg:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature you control
Other creatures you control are indestructible.
Dampen Wills :symw::symw:
Enchantment
Players can't untap more than one creature during their untap steps.
Skew Time :symu::symu:
Instant
You may cast spells as though they had flash until end of turn.
Each opponent can cast spells only any time he or she could cast a sorcery until end of turn.
Scout's Outpost
Land
:symtap:: Add to your mana pool.
:symtap:: Target creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn.
Reemergence :4mana::symg::symg:
Sorcery
Draw a card for each land card in your graveyard.
^This seems too expensive but I was concerned about dredge.
I (like everyone else) think this is a really great idea. I like the brew flavor a lot. I also get a very strong "quest" vibe from these, though. With new names and a reworded ability, these could fit Zendikar block as new types of quests. Neat idea!
Winnowing Water seems like it could be a new control staple. I really like Ichor of Brune, how it has a continuous effect but then gets stronger once it has its ingredients (as opposed to the sacrificial one-shot brews).
I think I liked this better when it was just Flame Wave. But I guess I shouldn't complain because it is superior to rolling thunder. I just can't see many situations where I would really want this. If I'm going to just smash my opponent with X damage, Banefire (or Blaze) is better. At lower costs, this just seems pathetically inefficient.
I do think the harvester is a bit overpowered. I'm thinking about it in a "monogreen" deck with a lot of forests, that casts the harvester with birds of paradise or a swamp and a Verdant Catacombs. When you cast the harvester, you get a forest, assuming the rest of the lands in your deck are forests or fetchlands. I think you could string out a bunch of forests, or even not, get a free card every turn or so. Or interactions with Quirion Ranger or Scryb Ranger.
Maybe it is ok as-is, but I think it could be exploited just a little.
jolted focus - genius! I love it. turns your burn into counters!
armor of grace - also pretty genius, although I like this less. Excise: the wording is different because jolted focus makes Power Sink and armor of grace makes Spell Blast. Armor of grace could probably be cheaper, although I guess it could become extremely annoying in a control deck.
ironskin - not really thrilling enough to be a rare, but decent card.
chilling mist - yeah, this needs to cost more I think. Is this ability green now too? (I think it's fine as blue/white hybrid, particularly with the name)
I like the new hellborn lich better, it feels more streamlined to me. Given Crumbling Sanctuary I think this could change to "exile the top card" if you wanted. On the other hand, that almost makes the card tutoring ability worse (although you'll live longer to use it, maybe).
Is the "turn into Sarkhan Vol" thing meant to be a disadvantage? That's the only way a 2/3 double strike haste for 3 could be justified.
The vess/kotho interaction confuses me...so once you get out the PW, she dies next turn, right? Because kotho has to die per Vess in Distress. How do you make it so you can't sacrifice the kotho? What am I missing here?
kotho is neat enough as a black fattie with cycling and "sac a creature: cast from your graveyard" I think.
its hard to justify red and green getting creature destruction with incredibly situational or double sided cards like decimate, mercy killing, or in blue's case, pongify, and then say it makes sense for 3RG = destroy target creature plus more.
The cost isn't justified - I already said that. He either needs a higher cost or (even better) a higher -loyalty cost for the ultimate. But "destroy target creature" as an ability on a red/green planeswalker isn't out of the question to me. There is precedent for the colors to occasionally just kill a creature directly. And it's not like I'm suggesting a colorshifted Doom Blade to red.
A red/green planeswalker that casts a modified Decimate (a red/green spell) makes a lot more sense than Nicol Bolas's +3 ability (a green spell).
ruin christmas - this seems strong to me but I suppose it's fine. Wasn't there an orzhov card (or maybe just an alara block card) that could give either their stuff -1/-1 or your stuff +1/+1, and it was a WB instant?
sketchy - ehhh...I'm not a fan of giving blue overpowered weenies as legends. A 2/2 for :symw:, maybe, but I don't think blue should get something like that.
(Sidenote: would a 0/1 unblockable for
shimmering mine - I believe someone (maybe a couple people) have posted this exact card fairly recently. I think the card is fine. Probably only better than the Alara ETBT tri-lands in an enemy wedge deck. Worse than the ETBT tri-lands in an allied wedge deck. Worse than the refuges in an allied two-color deck. Equal to the ETBT tri-lands in an enemy two-color deck. Maybe better, maybe worse than the ETBT tri-lands in 4-5 color decks. That's my analysis.
Interestingly, I looked up old posts of mine and sometime last year or so I posted a land that was just "ETBT. Tap to add 1 mana of any color." What was I thinking?!? I think my only slight excuse is that it was before Alara came out, and my card was going to be rare.
What r_e meant is that oran-rief's effect literally just replaces one multikick activation of this guy. So instead of paying :1mana::symg: you can just tap oran-rief. Oran-rief could have been tapped for
It's not that the cards don't work together, they do. But the rief can't continue to put counters on the guy, or put counters on him the turn after he comes into play, so really it has to be compared to his :1mana::symg: multikicker, and what it does is save you a mana. This is good of course, and since you're playing the land anyway, it makes sense. It just isn't something ridiculously special.
I see what you're doing, k-rad...you're turning "complexity is one of many concepts that goes into determining a card's rarity" into "complexity is why cards are rare!"
Except no one said that. Why not try responding to arguments actually made instead of being "clever" and knocking down ridiculous straw men?
Silvercut: I think the :2mana::symb::symr: version of your legend-killer fits best, given Tsabo Tavoc and the fact that it likely won't be killing any enchantments. This (and my card) is the kind of ability that is probably pretty irrelevant until something like Kamigawa comes along. (Although I could see it as sideboard tech if there was some powerful legend with shroud that became a big staple)
Thank you for the clever diversion clear-up. I think I may actually turn it into a red/green gold card and go with quietmarketer's idea.
mark of the creator - yes, that's the wording I meant. I planned on it being a rare, too.
reemergence - you make an interesting point that I hadn't thought of. I'm not sure how much of a problem it is if you draw another copy, but I like your new version. I don't think it is that different from mine at all - it's a neat extension of the card's flavor, what with your lands (and now creatures) reemerging into your library (and maybe into your hand). Mind if I use it in my set? I'm thinking it could even be a mythic at this point.
r_e: thanks. I wanted scout's outpost to be an uncommon.
I think Dampen Wills (or "Levy" :)) could cost :1mana::symw: but going with Smoke's cost seemed cute.
Most "destroy all" effects are sorceries, and the card you're describing is way better than Shatterstorm. A :3mana::symr::symr: Shatterstorm that exiled legendary artifacts (or did something extra worse to them) might be interesting though.
That's a great idea! I like that a lot. Even though its effect is to make your other creatures unblockable, I sort of think the card feels green now. Maybe gold?
Not really sure I see any similarity between the two enchantments. Are you just saying that mine should cost about 6 too? I wasn't sure, given that it is potentially amazing but also just puts a huge bullseye on your creature's head.
Ha! Thanks!
I hadn't thought of the isochron interactions. Evil, but still printable?
I like this too. But can they avoid it by just not blocking those 1/1s (and choosing to block your other dudes instead)?
Agreed. I like it how it is now, nice and simple.
Stupid? That's not very nice. Black is the color of sacrificing creatures too, but green gets Nature's Resurgence. And although drawing from dead creatures could easily fit black, green is the color that most cares about lands (in play or otherwise). Think of my card as just as much about rebounding from your opponent killing your lands as it is about benefiting from sacrificing your own.
I said I costed it so high because of my concern with dredge interactions, but I'm open to costing it lower or modifying it somehow. Of course, the card you describe just obsoletes Flow of Ideas, although I agree that it does fit green.
Now what about "Draw a card for each land card in all graveyards" at 6 mana? Now you get to draw from your opponent's dead lands too.
Another idea (borrowing from flow of ideas and QuietMarketer's suggestion) would be "Draw a card for each forest you control, then untap all forests you control." That should cost :4mana::symg::symg::symg: or so, and feels rather powerful to me. It would need a new name then.
Sorcery
Destroy all legendary artifacts. They can't be regenerated.
"This probably needs a better name," said the goblin.
Clever Diversion :3mana::symr:
Sorcery
Put a 1/1 red [something] creature token with haste and "this creature must be blocked" into play for each untapped creature target player controls.
^I'm not sure if this works. it's supposed to create a 1/1 diversion for each of your opponent's creatures to have to block, to let your other dudes get through.
Mark of the Creator :2mana::symg::symg:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature you control
Other creatures you control are indestructible.
Dampen Wills :symw::symw:
Enchantment
Players can't untap more than one creature during their untap steps.
^colorshifted Smoke
Skew Time :symu::symu:
Instant
You may cast spells as though they had flash until end of turn.
Each opponent can cast spells only any time he or she could cast a sorcery until end of turn.
Scout's Outpost
Land
:symtap:: Add
:symtap:: Target creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn.
Reemergence :4mana::symg::symg:
Sorcery
Draw a card for each land card in your graveyard.
^This seems too expensive but I was concerned about dredge.
Not sure what the flavor is on the tiger and the topiary gate, but it's a cool mechanic.
r_e: I was thinking the same thing with the vorine.
Great collection!
Winnowing Water seems like it could be a new control staple. I really like Ichor of Brune, how it has a continuous effect but then gets stronger once it has its ingredients (as opposed to the sacrificial one-shot brews).
Maybe it is ok as-is, but I think it could be exploited just a little.
armor of grace - also pretty genius, although I like this less. Excise: the wording is different because jolted focus makes Power Sink and armor of grace makes Spell Blast. Armor of grace could probably be cheaper, although I guess it could become extremely annoying in a control deck.
ironskin - not really thrilling enough to be a rare, but decent card.
chilling mist - yeah, this needs to cost
I like the new hellborn lich better, it feels more streamlined to me. Given Crumbling Sanctuary I think this could change to "exile the top card" if you wanted. On the other hand, that almost makes the card tutoring ability worse (although you'll live longer to use it, maybe).
The vess/kotho interaction confuses me...so once you get out the PW, she dies next turn, right? Because kotho has to die per Vess in Distress. How do you make it so you can't sacrifice the kotho? What am I missing here?
kotho is neat enough as a black fattie with cycling and "sac a creature: cast from your graveyard" I think.
knight of the low sun is pretty cool!
The cost isn't justified - I already said that. He either needs a higher cost or (even better) a higher -loyalty cost for the ultimate. But "destroy target creature" as an ability on a red/green planeswalker isn't out of the question to me. There is precedent for the colors to occasionally just kill a creature directly. And it's not like I'm suggesting a colorshifted Doom Blade to red.
A red/green planeswalker that casts a modified Decimate (a red/green spell) makes a lot more sense than Nicol Bolas's +3 ability (a green spell).