Siren flavor is enough to push the "lure ability" onto blue for that card, definitely.
Bolster and distracting lights are both fine - I suppose the core set versions are less likely to be cantrips.
Wreath in flame - I like this, but I'm not sure which version you should go with. 1R sorcery, 2R instant, 1R aura? We're either stepping on Sangrite Backlash's toes or we're looking like a bad nameless inversion here.
call the hunt - great idea.
hoarding dragon - I guess I'd rather have it get a more interesting bonus, but I can't think of anything at the moment. I like the flavor though, feels like a core set Covetous Dragon.
Thanks for all the comments guys. I will try to respond to the ideas behind all of them:
I really like the idea of having prodigious hydra mill you when it loses heads. I agree that ideally, the card would just have p/t equal to the number of cards in your library, but I feel like that requires too much checking of the library to be practically viable. I also am going to get rid of shroud, and add a cast-from-hand clause.
thirsting hydra: I guess having it trigger off of spells doesn't have the same flavor of "thirsting" for tapped lands, but it makes it a little less ridiculous. I'm going to keep shroud (instead of protection) on it, as it makes the card a little better against non-blue/non-black, and less auto-win against blue and black.
I'll edit this in the original post.
hydra brood - For some reason the name of it just really appealed to me, but I agree that it doesn't actually fit what it does. I will probably keep the card but just make it a non-hydra. I also like the idea of putting more 4/4s into play instead of just growing it in size.
Broodhead Hydra - not sure if I want to make a hydra lord, but this one is pretty sweet. I also LOVE the name.
Decahydra - another fantastic name, I will HAVE to use that for a 10/10 hydra at some point. The card itself is cool too - chumpable, and can be worn down or even killed in its first attack, but will take a lot with it. Indestructibility + Withering is a great way to simulate the hydra heads, well done!
EDIT: I made Hydra Brood a non-brood, non-hydra, and changed from getting bigger to getting...more.
Gathering of Ancients :3mana::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Treefolk
4/4
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, you may put a 4/4 green Treefolk creature token into play unless that player pays :4mana:.
I think the drawback is great. In a red aggro deck, basically the only spells you cast will be burn, so this is hits you pretty hard. A deck can be built around it, but then all you're getting is a 2/2 for R, not something outright broken.
I guess it would need testing but my instinct is that if goblin guide is acceptable, so is this.
gibbering madman - I like it, and I understand your logic behind it. Why not make it cost 2B, though?
blade of unbeing - don't know if it would need to cost any more to make it non-legendary.
screeching rook - cool idea! Seeing as how blue is more of a flying color, and hence more likely to be annoyed by reach, this could cost UB if you wanted. Also, it feels more uncommon than common.
coursing lifeblood - this could do a little more if you wanted, like the creature gets +1/+1 or you gain a couple life when it enters the battlefield.
potshot - heh.
urchin sweep - I guess I understand the connection to the name, but white should be hating more on fatties, not weenies.
croc bird - um...well it certainly is a weird hodgepodge of abilities. definitely emperor croc blood in there.
Under current rules, when a creature has both +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters, they are automatically removed on a one for one basis as a state based action.
That's why I didn't think mixing them was a problem. My only thought was that I don't think there were shadowmoor cards that routinely subjected themselves to both types of counters.
IMO, neither hydra should not have shroud.
as far as the prodigious hydra/soul's fire combo, I'd say instead of shroud, give it "~ can't be the target of spells or abilities you control."
also, i understand the reasoning, but the idea of a creature getting trample as it gets smaller is weird flavor-wise...
I suppose you're right on the flavor issue. I guess I feel like hydras should have some sort of trample or pseudo-trample given how they work - large things with lots of heads seem like the kind of things that shrug off blockers. I just didn't want to give straight trample to the prodigious hydra for obvious reasons.
The anti-shroud you suggest seems reasonable.
Why shouldn't Thirsting Hydra have shroud? I figured it needed something to be more than just doom blade bate for the black decks it was meant to hate against.
Purification: I forgot Brion didn't have a targeting requirement. I think I'm ok with that combo though, as it involves three colors and potentially two killable creatures (if I remove shroud from the hydra).
Hydra Brood is my favorite. I really like that for some reason.
Thanks! It was the last one I designed, but then I realized that it might actually be the one with the most (non-casual) potential. Assuming it doesn't just get hit with Doom Blade, they're going to have a lot of trouble casting non-creature spells while he is on the battlefield.
Shroud is to prevent Soul's Fire combo. Fling still works in whatever format Fling would be legal in, but I didn't think that would be a problem.
*edit: sorry, missed your second post gtmwarrior. I suppose your are correct that it is more the less a phage. When I had the trample ability in mind, it was with regenerators. Not that a game would last long enough for a drudge skeletons to block the hydra 20 or so times anyway, but there is the outside chance of blockers+burn withering the hydra down.
Million/Million would also be fun for a freakishly big mythic rare. I think tying it to a set resource like your library makes the card a little interesting, and also shocking for players who read it the first time, which I think is something good for a mythic creature to have.
Primeval Hydra :5mana::symg::symg: (MR)
Creature - Hydra
7/7
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Primeval Hydra.
Whenever damage would be dealt to Primeval Hydra, prevent that damage and put that many -1/-1 counters on Primeval Hydra.
You may divide Primeval Hydra's combat damage as you choose among defending player and/or any number of creatures he or she controls.
^I don't think mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters is a problem under the current rules, but the upkeep ability could be changed to "may remove a -1/-1 counter" I suppose (though that makes it weaker, too).
*could also be "may remove all -1/-1 counters" too. but then it just feels a lot like regular combat damage.
*I started it as a 7/7 instead of a 0/0 with 7 counters because it reduced its text and avoided having every single hydra be a 0/0, which makes them look less fun.
the freakishly big mythic:
Prodigious Hydra :6mana::symg::symg: (MR)
Creature - Hydra
0/0
If Prodigious Hydra was cast from your hand, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each card in your library.
Whenever damage would be dealt to Prodigious Hydra, prevent that damage and remove that many +1/+1 counters from Prodigious Hydra, then exile that many cards from the top of your library.
All creatures able to block Prodigious Hydra do so.
the original:
Prodigious Hydra :6mana::symg::symg: (MR)
Creature - Hydra
0/0
Shroud
Prodigious Hydra enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each card in your library.
Whenever damage would be dealt to Prodigious Hydra, prevent that damage and remove that many +1/+1 counters from Prodigious Hydra.
Prodigious Hydra has trample as long as its power is 10 or less.
the efficient small-ish beater:
Thirsting Hydra :symg::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Hydra
2/2
Trample, Shroud
Whenever a player casts a black or blue spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Thirsting Hydra.
the original:
Thirsting Hydra :symg::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Hydra
2/2
Trample, Shroud
Whenever a player taps a swamp or island for mana, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Thirsting Hydra.
(note any player can activate it. this was intentional, given its mana cost.)
and one more - now a non-hydra!
Gathering of Ancients :3mana::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Treefolk
4/4
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, you may put a 4/4 green Treefolk creature token into play unless that player pays :4mana:.
the original:
Hydra Brood :3mana::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Hydra
4/4
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, he or she may pay :4mana:. If he or she does not, you may put 4 +1/+1 counters on Hydra Brood.
Wish Fulfillment :2mana::symu::symu:
Enchantment
As Wish Fulfillment enters the battlefield, name three card other than basic lands.
Reveal each card you draw.
When you draw a named card, put a 5/5 blue Djinn creature token with flying onto the battlefield and put a Wish counter on Wish Fulfillment.
When Wish Fulfillment has three Wish counters on it, sacrifice it.
or a more complicated, slightly worse, but more flavorful version:
Wish Fulfillment :3mana::symu:
Enchantment
As Wish Fulfillment enters the battlefield, name three card other than basic lands, then put 3 countesr on Wish Fulfillment, each named after one of the named cards.
Reveal each card you draw.
Whenever you draw a card, you may remove a counter from Wish Fulfillment that shares a name with it. If you do, put a 5/5 blue Djinn creature token with flying onto the battlefield and put a Wish counter on Wish Fulfillment.
When Wish Fulfillment has no counters on it, sacrifice it.
I think this is the most flavorful, but also the most complicated. In my opinion it isn't worth it, but I am intrigued by the "wish for your own cards" version. Which do the rest of you prefer, looking at opponent's stuff or your own?
Not sure about the flavor of wishing that an opponent draws a certain card...? Normally you wish that an opponent doesn't draw cards... Otherwise, pretty cool.
Well, true, but you can wish for anything, can't you? It could actually be very interesting if you revealed your OWN draws to trigger it, but then would have to be more expensive to account for the fact that you would be building your deck around it and would know what cards to name right away.
I like that in the version now, you may have to name 3 cards but only be certain your opponent is playing 1 or 2 of them, and may have to make an educated guess about the rest of his deck.
I think the mechanic is good. It's another variation on flashback or the coldsnap mechanic (the name of which I forget). Reusable but with some heavy costs. Would there be cards with no reform "cost" aside from the number of cards you have to exile?
endless travels seems dangerous, even with the heavy reform cost. Returning creatures to your hand can be exploited with enters-the-battlefield abilities.
I like how scroll rummaging helps itself pay for its reform cost by milling yourself, but it seems like a pretty useless card considering it doesn't give you any net milling over your opponent.
towering thrasher's abilities are kind of redundant, but also flavorful with the name.
Reform also dictates monocolor decks, as you need lots of a particular color in your grave. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation.
I like the current Wish Fulfillment much better. I had another thought along your lines, as well: maybe you could name three different cards when it came into play? And then it could still sac when they drew one, or - if you felt like jumping through templating hoops - it could trigger three separate times and then sac? But the current card feels much splashier and more worthwhile in general.
Ah, even MORE flavorful, and functional as well. I like that idea. Would the wording just be too much to deal with? Let's see:
Wish Fulfillment :2mana::symu:
Enchantment
As Wish Fulfillment enters the battlefield, name three card other than basic lands.
Each opponent reveals each card he or she draws.
When an opponent draws a named card, put a 5/5 blue Djinn creature token with flying onto the battlefield and put a Wish counter on Wish Fulfillment.
When Wish Fulfillment has three Wish counters on it, sacrifice it.
Could that fit on a card? The card now works so you have 3 different triggering conditions, but any of the conditions can trigger it up to 3 times, so it could trigger off of one card drawn 3 times rather than three cards drawn once each. This all makes it a lot more powerful.
Could it be made even more flavorful (and slightly less powerful) by only allowing a Djinn once for each name? Saying "Wish Fulfillment stops checking for that named card" after each one is found? Or maybe naming the counters after the named cards, and not allowing it to get a second counter of the same name? Maybe that complicates it too much, as it is already a very wordy card.
I really like this, particularly firstturnmanaburn's version, but like has been said, black isn't supposed to get this any more. Which is a shame, because the flavor feels VERY vampiric to me.
I suppose silvercut's version (or the pumped-up versions) fit black a little more, as they are more likely to be big build-ups of mana a la cabal coffers or that zendikar land.
Bolster and distracting lights are both fine - I suppose the core set versions are less likely to be cantrips.
Wreath in flame - I like this, but I'm not sure which version you should go with. 1R sorcery, 2R instant, 1R aura? We're either stepping on Sangrite Backlash's toes or we're looking like a bad nameless inversion here.
call the hunt - great idea.
hoarding dragon - I guess I'd rather have it get a more interesting bonus, but I can't think of anything at the moment. I like the flavor though, feels like a core set Covetous Dragon.
I really like the idea of having prodigious hydra mill you when it loses heads. I agree that ideally, the card would just have p/t equal to the number of cards in your library, but I feel like that requires too much checking of the library to be practically viable. I also am going to get rid of shroud, and add a cast-from-hand clause.
thirsting hydra: I guess having it trigger off of spells doesn't have the same flavor of "thirsting" for tapped lands, but it makes it a little less ridiculous. I'm going to keep shroud (instead of protection) on it, as it makes the card a little better against non-blue/non-black, and less auto-win against blue and black.
I'll edit this in the original post.
hydra brood - For some reason the name of it just really appealed to me, but I agree that it doesn't actually fit what it does. I will probably keep the card but just make it a non-hydra. I also like the idea of putting more 4/4s into play instead of just growing it in size.
Broodhead Hydra - not sure if I want to make a hydra lord, but this one is pretty sweet. I also LOVE the name.
Decahydra - another fantastic name, I will HAVE to use that for a 10/10 hydra at some point. The card itself is cool too - chumpable, and can be worn down or even killed in its first attack, but will take a lot with it. Indestructibility + Withering is a great way to simulate the hydra heads, well done!
EDIT: I made Hydra Brood a non-brood, non-hydra, and changed from getting bigger to getting...more.
Gathering of Ancients :3mana::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Treefolk
4/4
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, you may put a 4/4 green Treefolk creature token into play unless that player pays :4mana:.
I guess it would need testing but my instinct is that if goblin guide is acceptable, so is this.
blade of unbeing - don't know if it would need to cost any more to make it non-legendary.
screeching rook - cool idea! Seeing as how blue is more of a flying color, and hence more likely to be annoyed by reach, this could cost UB if you wanted. Also, it feels more uncommon than common.
coursing lifeblood - this could do a little more if you wanted, like the creature gets +1/+1 or you gain a couple life when it enters the battlefield.
potshot - heh.
urchin sweep - I guess I understand the connection to the name, but white should be hating more on fatties, not weenies.
croc bird - um...well it certainly is a weird hodgepodge of abilities. definitely emperor croc blood in there.
That's why I didn't think mixing them was a problem.
I suppose you're right on the flavor issue. I guess I feel like hydras should have some sort of trample or pseudo-trample given how they work - large things with lots of heads seem like the kind of things that shrug off blockers. I just didn't want to give straight trample to the prodigious hydra for obvious reasons.
The anti-shroud you suggest seems reasonable.
Why shouldn't Thirsting Hydra have shroud? I figured it needed something to be more than just doom blade bate for the black decks it was meant to hate against.
Purification: I forgot Brion didn't have a targeting requirement. I think I'm ok with that combo though, as it involves three colors and potentially two killable creatures (if I remove shroud from the hydra).
Thanks! It was the last one I designed, but then I realized that it might actually be the one with the most (non-casual) potential. Assuming it doesn't just get hit with Doom Blade, they're going to have a lot of trouble casting non-creature spells while he is on the battlefield.
Shroud is to prevent Soul's Fire combo. Fling still works in whatever format Fling would be legal in, but I didn't think that would be a problem.
*edit: sorry, missed your second post gtmwarrior. I suppose your are correct that it is more the less a phage. When I had the trample ability in mind, it was with regenerators. Not that a game would last long enough for a drudge skeletons to block the hydra 20 or so times anyway, but there is the outside chance of blockers+burn withering the hydra down.
Million/Million would also be fun for a freakishly big mythic rare. I think tying it to a set resource like your library makes the card a little interesting, and also shocking for players who read it the first time, which I think is something good for a mythic creature to have.
the archetypal mythic:
Primeval Hydra :5mana::symg::symg: (MR)
Creature - Hydra
7/7
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Primeval Hydra.
Whenever damage would be dealt to Primeval Hydra, prevent that damage and put that many -1/-1 counters on Primeval Hydra.
You may divide Primeval Hydra's combat damage as you choose among defending player and/or any number of creatures he or she controls.
^I don't think mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters is a problem under the current rules, but the upkeep ability could be changed to "may remove a -1/-1 counter" I suppose (though that makes it weaker, too).
*could also be "may remove all -1/-1 counters" too. but then it just feels a lot like regular combat damage.
*I started it as a 7/7 instead of a 0/0 with 7 counters because it reduced its text and avoided having every single hydra be a 0/0, which makes them look less fun.
the freakishly big mythic:
Prodigious Hydra :6mana::symg::symg: (MR)
Creature - Hydra
0/0
If Prodigious Hydra was cast from your hand, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each card in your library.
Whenever damage would be dealt to Prodigious Hydra, prevent that damage and remove that many +1/+1 counters from Prodigious Hydra, then exile that many cards from the top of your library.
All creatures able to block Prodigious Hydra do so.
the original:
Creature - Hydra
0/0
Shroud
Prodigious Hydra enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each card in your library.
Whenever damage would be dealt to Prodigious Hydra, prevent that damage and remove that many +1/+1 counters from Prodigious Hydra.
Prodigious Hydra has trample as long as its power is 10 or less.
the efficient small-ish beater:
Thirsting Hydra :symg::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Hydra
2/2
Trample, Shroud
Whenever a player casts a black or blue spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Thirsting Hydra.
the original:
Creature - Hydra
2/2
Trample, Shroud
Whenever a player taps a swamp or island for mana, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Thirsting Hydra.
(note any player can activate it. this was intentional, given its mana cost.)
and one more - now a non-hydra!
Gathering of Ancients :3mana::symg::symg: (R)
Creature - Treefolk
4/4
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, you may put a 4/4 green Treefolk creature token into play unless that player pays :4mana:.
the original:
Creature - Hydra
4/4
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, he or she may pay :4mana:. If he or she does not, you may put 4 +1/+1 counters on Hydra Brood.
thoughts?
Yeah, I vaguely thought about that while designing wish fulfillment. And it is even more true now that the fulfillment can trigger multiple times.
I think I might go with the "wish for your own cards" version - but not the overly wordy and specific version of it.
Wish Fulfillment :2mana::symu::symu:
Enchantment
As Wish Fulfillment enters the battlefield, name three card other than basic lands.
Reveal each card you draw.
When you draw a named card, put a 5/5 blue Djinn creature token with flying onto the battlefield and put a Wish counter on Wish Fulfillment.
When Wish Fulfillment has three Wish counters on it, sacrifice it.
or a more complicated, slightly worse, but more flavorful version:
Wish Fulfillment :3mana::symu:
Enchantment
As Wish Fulfillment enters the battlefield, name three card other than basic lands, then put 3 countesr on Wish Fulfillment, each named after one of the named cards.
Reveal each card you draw.
Whenever you draw a card, you may remove a counter from Wish Fulfillment that shares a name with it. If you do, put a 5/5 blue Djinn creature token with flying onto the battlefield and put a Wish counter on Wish Fulfillment.
When Wish Fulfillment has no counters on it, sacrifice it.
I think this is the most flavorful, but also the most complicated. In my opinion it isn't worth it, but I am intrigued by the "wish for your own cards" version. Which do the rest of you prefer, looking at opponent's stuff or your own?
Well, true, but you can wish for anything, can't you? It could actually be very interesting if you revealed your OWN draws to trigger it, but then would have to be more expensive to account for the fact that you would be building your deck around it and would know what cards to name right away.
I like that in the version now, you may have to name 3 cards but only be certain your opponent is playing 1 or 2 of them, and may have to make an educated guess about the rest of his deck.
Endless travels seems less abuseable now.
I love the new scroll rummaging!
endless travels seems dangerous, even with the heavy reform cost. Returning creatures to your hand can be exploited with enters-the-battlefield abilities.
I like how scroll rummaging helps itself pay for its reform cost by milling yourself, but it seems like a pretty useless card considering it doesn't give you any net milling over your opponent.
towering thrasher's abilities are kind of redundant, but also flavorful with the name.
Reform also dictates monocolor decks, as you need lots of a particular color in your grave. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation.
Ah, even MORE flavorful, and functional as well. I like that idea. Would the wording just be too much to deal with? Let's see:
Wish Fulfillment :2mana::symu:
Enchantment
As Wish Fulfillment enters the battlefield, name three card other than basic lands.
Each opponent reveals each card he or she draws.
When an opponent draws a named card, put a 5/5 blue Djinn creature token with flying onto the battlefield and put a Wish counter on Wish Fulfillment.
When Wish Fulfillment has three Wish counters on it, sacrifice it.
Could that fit on a card? The card now works so you have 3 different triggering conditions, but any of the conditions can trigger it up to 3 times, so it could trigger off of one card drawn 3 times rather than three cards drawn once each. This all makes it a lot more powerful.
Could it be made even more flavorful (and slightly less powerful) by only allowing a Djinn once for each name? Saying "Wish Fulfillment stops checking for that named card" after each one is found? Or maybe naming the counters after the named cards, and not allowing it to get a second counter of the same name? Maybe that complicates it too much, as it is already a very wordy card.
I suppose silvercut's version (or the pumped-up versions) fit black a little more, as they are more likely to be big build-ups of mana a la cabal coffers or that zendikar land.