Whoops, I forgot to add the 4x bloodstained mire, I run 24 mana not 20...
And re: bob and a higher than Jund average CMC, I run bob for a few reasons:
1. Phyrexian Arena is just too slow
2. I have an average CMC of 1.48, which while higher than Jund's 1.33(ish), it is lower than 2 from sign in blood.
2a. Maybe it's luck, but I rarely bob a Gary... I have once though, and that definitely hurt. Ended up getting more than 5 life back with Gary though!
3. That's why I have so many lifelink creatures. to help balance out the bob's and thoughtseize
I'm so happy that this thread has come alive again after so long! Here's the version of deck I piloted last Monday (3-1). Would appreciate any feedback you all have.
I'm testing out the elderspell MD to help in the control matchups. ashiok, dream render played like a dream against RB Hollowed One. Average CMC comes in under 1.5, so Bob is the choice over sign in blood (and so far has been the correct choice).
Hi everyone! Been pretty quiet for a while, but I wanted to get your thoughts on the new spawn of mayhem card from Ravnica Allegiance. Do you think it could replace Phyrexian Obliterator? Flying and trample is nothing to sneeze at, plus the -1 to everyone each turn (which we'd be able to easily make up with gray merchant of asphodel.
Two cards that I am excited about though, are Cast Down (1b) and Josu Vess, Lich Knight (2bb). With Cast Down, we can destroy any non-legendary creature at instant speed, and with Josu Vess we have decent attack/defense plus menace, and an insane kicker (8 2/2 zombies with menace). So the next question, is Fatal Push vs. Cast Down?
I apologize in advance if this isn't the optimal place to post this deck list, but I have been calling my deck "Devoted Black Rock" (or Mono Black Rock) as GBx Rock serves as the foundation to the deck. I'd love to hear opinions from the experts of the archetype, and how I can improve. Thank you in advance.
First a bit of context: I have been tweaking this deck since Scars of Mirrodin was in standard (6 years ago now), winning off of disruption, Vampire Nighthawk, and Lashwrithe.
Being mono-colored allows me to MD 4x Ghost Quarter, which helps tremendously against Tron. I actually now like the Tron matchup, haha. The deck can win consistently on turn 4 (with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx) or 5 Gary (Gray Merchant of Asphodel). I have also won a surprising number of times with the potent combination of Gifted Aetherborn + a bestowed Herald of Torment (the life swing is sick). I wish that I could run Bob (Dark Confidant), but with the 4 and 5 drops, I think my average CMC is too high. I have found a 3/1 split of Sign in Blood and Erebos, God of the Dead to be a decent replacement.
I consistently post 2-2 and 3-1 at FNM.
I would greatly appreciate any help to push this deck to the next level, ideally staying mono black or with a slight splash into Green or White. Thank you!
Round 1: Won 2-0 against BR burn. Nothing to write home about here.
Round 2: Lost 2-1 (narrowly) against Abzan Midrange. Struggled against tokens game 1 when I didn't have any sweepers. All three games were incredibly grindy.
Round 3: Won 2-1 against BW Vampires. It was a pretty spicy brew, tbh, a great combination of old and new school vamps.
Round 4: Lost 2-0 against G Tron. Tron... I got him down to 4 game one (at 36 life) and he won. 2nd game I got mana screwed. Terrible matchup, wish I could improve it further as mono B.
Notes and improvements after tonight:
Very happy with Herald of Torment. Played it both as a 3/3 Flyer for 3 and for its bestow cost for 5. Lifebane Zombie did some work, especially against Abzan and Vampires. Not thrilled with Vampiric Link, I may go back to running 1-2 Collective Brutality in SB.
Otherwise very happy. Would love tips on beating Tron.
I like the look of the deck Ocitrebla. How do you fare against other Aggro decks (Affinity, 5c Humans, Death's Shadow)? You have a TON of creatures that come into play tapped.
I'd love to hear any feedback on my most recent version of the deck, which I'm calling, Devoted Black Rock. It's Mono Black Midrange Devotion in the style of Rock/Junk decks (without the other Abzan colors and Phyrexian Obliterator, of course. Obliterator only because of the current meta).
I run carrier thrall instead of card draw (e.g. sign in blood) because I highly value the ramp to set up a turn 3 4-drop or a turn 4 5-drop. Ideally I'd be able to fit in both, but I don't think I can without sacrificing Hand disruption or removal.
Herald of Torment is my Lashwrithe. It's a 3/3 for 3 flying with a negligible drawback, which is great in its own right, AND it can bestow for 5 to power-up another creature. The great part about Bestow is it is resilient to spot removal. Even if they kill the creature it is bestowing they still have a 3/3 flyer to deal with. It also turns a Phyrexian Crusader into an evasive 2-turn clock.
I know that playing infect with non-infect is problematic, but hear me out. Path to Exile and Bolt are two of the most played cards in the meta, and this card dodges both. It also requires the opponent to have revolt in order to Fatal Push it. It's an instant-win, pretty much, against Burn, and if you can get rid of/bait their removal, also against Jeskai or UR/UW Control. Plus it has first strike (which stops 5C humans in its tracks). The infect also means that large creatures will have to think twice about attacking.
Gonti, Lord of Luxary is surprisingly effective against Midrange or Control decks, as well as Aggro decks. Using your opponents cards against them is always good. Against a control deck it gives you gas to work with (a counterspell or removal spell, for example). It also SIGNIFICANTLY adds to the mental game, because the opponent now has to consider what cards in their own deck we may have access to. Plus, even if they remove Gonti, the card sticks around.
I'd love to hear what people think. Especially about the ratio of creatures to hand disruption and spot removal (it is a little removal-light for my liking), and about the sideboard of course. Bontu's Last Reckoning is a beast against Aggro. Unless they have an aether vial in play it is almost impossible for an Aggro deck to catch up. Crucially, it also comes down a turn sooner than other Wrath effects. Not being able to untap our mana the next turn is a small price to pay most of the time.
It reliably gets a turn-5 kill, either through Gary or through a bestowed Herald of Torment on something. I went 2-2 (nearly 3-1) with this build of the deck at my last FNM. I lost to Tron (of course) and narrowly lost to UR Control. I won handily against 5C Humans and CoCo Elves.
Relentless Dead is definitely better than Bloodghast in a midrange shell. No question. I love Lashwrithe. My original version of this deck (way back during Scars block) revolved around attaching a turn 4 Lashwrithe to a lifelink creature e.g. Vampire Nighthawk or vault skirge. The life swing is just absurd, especially when coupled with an effective kill and discard suite.
As a long-time Mono Black pilot, I have a few suggestions you might want to consider:
1. Since you are splashing black MB for blood moon, I'd look into blightning and terminate. Yes it does mean that you increase the red splash, but you have the manabase for it. I think you're also right to consider K-Command (if it doesn't clog the 3-drop slot).
2. Pithing Needle >>> Hero's Downfall. Period. It has a much wider reach, because it can also target aether vial and cranial plating (among others) while still being able to shut down any planeswalker. It'll also get in under a turn 3 Karn Liberated, which can make an otherwise very difficult matchup vs. Tron potentially winnable.
3. I'd consider testing Bontu's Last Reckoning and/or Damnation over Mutilate. With the red splash, it doesn't seem like you are running enough swamps to use it effectively. And a skilled Affinity pilot, for example, can fairly easily play around Mutilate by moving counters around.
I used Phyrexian Arena for a while, for pure devotion reasons. However, I have been MUCH happier with Sign in Blood. Also, you should definitely run 23-24 lands (24 lands allows you to consistently hit 4 lands by turn 4).
It seems to me like Liliana, the Last Hope's utility is more meta and matchup dependent than Liliana of the Veil, whose abilities are more outright powerful. That being said, I do think that LotV is more powerful in Jund (when Jund was dominant) than she is in Bx Devotion. If I had one more LotV, I would run a 2-1 split LotV - LtLH, and be quite happy.
But that's just me, I'd love to hear others respond to this debate, especially as it relates to the current meta.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet does work. Just his ability that exiles opponents creatures does a ton of work in the current meta. You are absolutely right about Arena, I run 4x sign in blood over Phyrexian Arena because even though the devotion is nice, it is way too slow to be effective.
What do people think the best version of this deck would be to take to SCG Baltimore this weekend? What would be some possible SB strategies against Eldrazi Tron, especially?
I actually ran phyrexian arena for a while. I found that even though it added to devotion, it came down too late to be useful for me. Most of the time I would choose other higher priority 3 drops, and often wouldn't play it until turns 4-6.
Although Sign in blood doesn't add to devotion, I have played it on turn 2 on several occasions to get out of a mana screw/flood or to add fuel. Additionally, you get that extra card immediately, rather than two turns after playing phyrexian arena.
I ran Gatekeeper of Malakir for a while as well, in the place of slaughter pact and victim of night. It may be meta dependent, but I ran into a lot of Emrakul/Grislebrand decks, and I would often die with mana open and a gatekeeper of malakir in hand, wishing it was an instant speed kill spell.
And re: bob and a higher than Jund average CMC, I run bob for a few reasons:
1. Phyrexian Arena is just too slow
2. I have an average CMC of 1.48, which while higher than Jund's 1.33(ish), it is lower than 2 from sign in blood.
2a. Maybe it's luck, but I rarely bob a Gary... I have once though, and that definitely hurt. Ended up getting more than 5 life back with Gary though!
3. That's why I have so many lifelink creatures. to help balance out the bob's and thoughtseize
Devoted Black Rock
4x dark confidant
2x Geralf's Messenger
4x Gifted Aetherborn
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Phyrexian Obliterator
Spells
4x cast down
2x fatal push
3x inquisition of kozilek
1x the elderspell
4x thoughtseize
4x liliana of the veil
1x liliana, the last hope
Lands
16x swamp
1x field of ruin
1x ghost quarter
1x shizo, death's storehouse
1x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1x Fulminator Mage
1x kalitas, traitor of ghet
2x collective brutality
1x damnation
2x surgical extraction
1x the elderspell
2x damping sphere
2x pithing needle
2x ashiok, dream render
1x relic of progenitus
I'm testing out the elderspell MD to help in the control matchups. ashiok, dream render played like a dream against RB Hollowed One. Average CMC comes in under 1.5, so Bob is the choice over sign in blood (and so far has been the correct choice).
First a bit of context: I have been tweaking this deck since Scars of Mirrodin was in standard (6 years ago now), winning off of disruption, Vampire Nighthawk, and Lashwrithe.
Devoted Black Rock
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
13 Swamp
Creatures [16]
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Geralf's Messenger
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Herald of Torment
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Non-creature Spells [21]
4x Fatal Push
4x Thoughtseize
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Go for the Throat
3x Sign in Blood
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Bontu's Last Reckoning
2x Damnation
2x Collective Brutality
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Pithing Needle
Being mono-colored allows me to MD 4x Ghost Quarter, which helps tremendously against Tron. I actually now like the Tron matchup, haha. The deck can win consistently on turn 4 (with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx) or 5 Gary (Gray Merchant of Asphodel). I have also won a surprising number of times with the potent combination of Gifted Aetherborn + a bestowed Herald of Torment (the life swing is sick). I wish that I could run Bob (Dark Confidant), but with the 4 and 5 drops, I think my average CMC is too high. I have found a 3/1 split of Sign in Blood and Erebos, God of the Dead to be a decent replacement.
I consistently post 2-2 and 3-1 at FNM.
I would greatly appreciate any help to push this deck to the next level, ideally staying mono black or with a slight splash into Green or White. Thank you!
2x Relentless Dead
4x Gifted Aetherborn
4x Herald of Torment
2x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Fatal Push
1x Dismember
1x Go for the Throat
1x Slaughter Pact
3x Sign in Blood
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
17x Swamp
Sideboard:
3x Bontu's Last Reckoning
1x Yaheeni's Expertise
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Pithing Needle
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Extirpate
1x Vampiric Link
2x Lifebane Zombie
Round 1: Won 2-0 against BR burn. Nothing to write home about here.
Round 2: Lost 2-1 (narrowly) against Abzan Midrange. Struggled against tokens game 1 when I didn't have any sweepers. All three games were incredibly grindy.
Round 3: Won 2-1 against BW Vampires. It was a pretty spicy brew, tbh, a great combination of old and new school vamps.
Round 4: Lost 2-0 against G Tron. Tron... I got him down to 4 game one (at 36 life) and he won. 2nd game I got mana screwed. Terrible matchup, wish I could improve it further as mono B.
Notes and improvements after tonight:
Very happy with Herald of Torment. Played it both as a 3/3 Flyer for 3 and for its bestow cost for 5. Lifebane Zombie did some work, especially against Abzan and Vampires. Not thrilled with Vampiric Link, I may go back to running 1-2 Collective Brutality in SB.
Otherwise very happy. Would love tips on beating Tron.
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Gonti, Lord of Luxary
2x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Herald of Torment
4x Phyrexian Crusader
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Fatal Push
1x Go for the Throat
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Collective Brutality
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, The Last Hope
2x Polluted Delta
1x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Ghost Quarter
11x Swamp
Sideboard:
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
1x Extirpate
1x Sadistic Sacrament
1x Yahenni's Expertise
1x Vampiric Link
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
1x Ratchet Bomb
Here's my rationale:
I run carrier thrall instead of card draw (e.g. sign in blood) because I highly value the ramp to set up a turn 3 4-drop or a turn 4 5-drop. Ideally I'd be able to fit in both, but I don't think I can without sacrificing Hand disruption or removal.
Herald of Torment is my Lashwrithe. It's a 3/3 for 3 flying with a negligible drawback, which is great in its own right, AND it can bestow for 5 to power-up another creature. The great part about Bestow is it is resilient to spot removal. Even if they kill the creature it is bestowing they still have a 3/3 flyer to deal with. It also turns a Phyrexian Crusader into an evasive 2-turn clock.
I know that playing infect with non-infect is problematic, but hear me out. Path to Exile and Bolt are two of the most played cards in the meta, and this card dodges both. It also requires the opponent to have revolt in order to Fatal Push it. It's an instant-win, pretty much, against Burn, and if you can get rid of/bait their removal, also against Jeskai or UR/UW Control. Plus it has first strike (which stops 5C humans in its tracks). The infect also means that large creatures will have to think twice about attacking.
Gonti, Lord of Luxary is surprisingly effective against Midrange or Control decks, as well as Aggro decks. Using your opponents cards against them is always good. Against a control deck it gives you gas to work with (a counterspell or removal spell, for example). It also SIGNIFICANTLY adds to the mental game, because the opponent now has to consider what cards in their own deck we may have access to. Plus, even if they remove Gonti, the card sticks around.
I'm testing out Erebos, God of the Dead in the Board, but it could just as easily be a Whip of Erebos or another collective brutality.
I also miss playing Geralf's Messenger, but I think that Phyrexian Crusader is significantly better in the Aggro matchup.
I'd love to hear what people think. Especially about the ratio of creatures to hand disruption and spot removal (it is a little removal-light for my liking), and about the sideboard of course. Bontu's Last Reckoning is a beast against Aggro. Unless they have an aether vial in play it is almost impossible for an Aggro deck to catch up. Crucially, it also comes down a turn sooner than other Wrath effects. Not being able to untap our mana the next turn is a small price to pay most of the time.
It reliably gets a turn-5 kill, either through Gary or through a bestowed Herald of Torment on something. I went 2-2 (nearly 3-1) with this build of the deck at my last FNM. I lost to Tron (of course) and narrowly lost to UR Control. I won handily against 5C Humans and CoCo Elves.
As a long-time Mono Black pilot, I have a few suggestions you might want to consider:
1. Since you are splashing black MB for blood moon, I'd look into blightning and terminate. Yes it does mean that you increase the red splash, but you have the manabase for it. I think you're also right to consider K-Command (if it doesn't clog the 3-drop slot).
2. Pithing Needle >>> Hero's Downfall. Period. It has a much wider reach, because it can also target aether vial and cranial plating (among others) while still being able to shut down any planeswalker. It'll also get in under a turn 3 Karn Liberated, which can make an otherwise very difficult matchup vs. Tron potentially winnable.
3. I'd consider testing Bontu's Last Reckoning and/or Damnation over Mutilate. With the red splash, it doesn't seem like you are running enough swamps to use it effectively. And a skilled Affinity pilot, for example, can fairly easily play around Mutilate by moving counters around.
But that's just me, I'd love to hear others respond to this debate, especially as it relates to the current meta.
Although Sign in blood doesn't add to devotion, I have played it on turn 2 on several occasions to get out of a mana screw/flood or to add fuel. Additionally, you get that extra card immediately, rather than two turns after playing phyrexian arena.
I ran Gatekeeper of Malakir for a while as well, in the place of slaughter pact and victim of night. It may be meta dependent, but I ran into a lot of Emrakul/Grislebrand decks, and I would often die with mana open and a gatekeeper of malakir in hand, wishing it was an instant speed kill spell.
But yes, Gatekeeper is a great card.