Huh. I’m not sure how he got from slight overlap and doubts to being more sure, then? I’ll look more into Rhand’s Vaimes progression when I get back.
Also, dkings, if you have time could you give a quick update on where your reads are? Where are your strongest leads or scumreads?
Axel, I’m not holding it as a point against you, for pretty much that reason. I brought it up just because I was curious and it was sticking in my mind. Can I ask how you feel about Proph?
I’m Mab. I hesitate to call this a fairy game given Sycorax, Prospero, Spearbhain (?), Aurora, etc. but you’d expect Mab to be Fairy and I’m not.
I hesitate to read anything into it because if Axel was actually “fairy mafia watcher” or something, why not just say he was “town watcher” and not include the fairy?
That Rhand post about Vaimes that Axel just quoted is interesting in italics because he seemed pretty sure of it (that was late day 1 iirc?) but then flipped on Vaimes when Vaimes claimed day 2, but then also grape claimed later day 2?
By anti-synergy I mean that if you are town, the ability for scum to janitor a flip is a straight nerf to your backup abilities. If you are mafia... I was going to say that it forces an interesting decision between janitoring someone unclaimed and leaving their flip open for you to take from. But that’s kind of a weird angle, and probably quite swingy.
KCC, you still have one bus drive shot remaining, right? Was there a reason you didn’t use it last night?
I am Hades, town corpse mimic.
I am basically the backup.
Each night I can target a seasonal ability of a dead player. I get the ability and it changes to the current season.
I had no target N1 and N2.
I can take one of tom’s seasonals toNight.
I don’t believe there’s 2 roles in town that take abilities from people. That would make this setup extremely swingy. Ergo, I don’t think Vaimes can be town.
@Vaimes: Something I suddenly wonder about: when you have done an exchange, will that influence the wording of the flip?
The reason I didn’t want to claim is that I could have potentially stopped the NK with tom’s jailer ability.
Hmm, sorry, I don’t entirely understand the issue here, either. Vaimes takes roles from living people, while you take from dead people. And I feel like your role would help to reduce swing - it decreases the negative impact of strong town PRs dying early, right?
There is some interesting anti-synergy between your claim and the janitored scum kill.
Can you use an ability in the same night that you take it? For example, if you took tom’s jailing tonight (a fall night), would you have to wait until the next fall night before you could use it?
Are you limited to taking from Town players?
Also, if you were tracked, would it return the dead player you took the role from?
Sorry for spamming the thread today. If people want me to, I can try to make fewer, longer posts, like I did when I was first catching up.
I'll be pretty busy over the weekend and will not be around as much.
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I think I've said a good amount of this already, stuff seems a bit static and mushy. I haven't really put a lot of effort into sorting my lower reads who aren't viable lynches Today.
Vezok and grapefruit - I think the masons are real. I wish they could be here more. Vezok's claim meant if they were mafia they must have been planning that specific fake mason team from very early on, their thoughts feel genuine, they're independently kinda towny, their conflicting reads/thoughts feel like they don't have an agenda / don't care about appearances.
Dkings and Asta I also believe are town. I am not sure what to make of the fairy telling Asta that he's being protected - if one is mafia I think it is dk. I definitely don't think they're partners, unless dkings is known to fake kind of dramatic "why would mafia ever do this" interactions with his partners? I feel like there's no reason for dk and Asta to make conflicting claims if they are partners. I think Asta is towny because of his tone generally being similar to a past villager game although that's slight, because his role combats the increased majority mechanic, and because I don't see why, if he is mafia and dkings is a villager, he would make this up. I guess I don't see what the motivation is for dkings to make it up if he is mafia, but I think it's possible that his role just doesn't say anything about being loud, and he just wanted to cast doubt on a villager. I am worried by both of them being a bit absent this phase, but I'll take it at face value that they were busy for the holidays.
I think Last is probably town, I just talked about this.
I'm bumping Killjoy up a tier from yesterday. His posting's been a bit sporadic toDay but I think his read on me is genuine, and I'm like, trusting dead villagers who have more meta on him + there's kind of a "thread spew" aspect to this, where it feels like a lot of people were just not considering him. Could say the same about Silver, for that latter part.
I still think Silver is town, as well, but it's less strong. Silver setting up the Proph/KCC dichotomy is not good if they are v/v, but I am not really sure how likely that is.
fulcrum/Axelrod is yet another dichotomy/pairing, I guess. While I thought Axel was posting better d2 than d1, he dropped off a bit Today and didn't post much outside of his action thing, I've been mulling over my thoughts about him, and it's just like. I feel like the core of why I'd take him out of my POE is his role. I didn't think he's lying about most of it and I'm not 100% sure of the use for scum, and it seems to make sense with town's seemingly limited investigative power. But fulcrum apparently disagrees based on her role, and at some point I want fulcrum to be less cryptic about that because I don't really see the similarity or why they can't necessarily coexist as town, as they are claimed. I am still getting kind of "off" vibes about how Fulcrum has treated certain things, but maybe that is just her?? I think her trying to break Proph's ability along with Vaimes' was kind of towny. I've agreed with some of the small things she's noted, like about the masons disagreeing.
I just talked about KCC, too. Her answering me about her Nacho progression earlier today was another thing that felt fluid to me. Her consideration of people pushing her since day 1 has felt a bit more... shallow, maybe? than I would expect? I don't think I'm phrasing this very well.
Rhand - honestly right now I just want to see his claim. A lot of what he says just feels reasonable, but that doesn't make him town or mafia. Intertwined with Rhand's claim is Vaimes, and I kind of want to be lazy and sheep other people and say that Vaimes is town for now, and evaluate more after Rhand claims. I probably also need to reread the early Rhand/Killjoy stuff because if I go in thinking Killjoy is town instead of not being sure, maybe I can get something out of that. Not sure if I have time for this.
Without that info for now, I still want to lynch Proph today, if we can't try to confirm his role. I know it was the holidays, but I just have not been wowed by his content or his actions. I feel like even if Silver is town and Proph picked up on the "color of spring" thing, he still might have been able to lie, if the spring ability is vague enough.
The thing is that within like, Proph/Rhand/KCC/fulcrum/Axel I've come up with enough not-partners reads that it's hard to find a coherent team, so I'm probably wrong with how I'm expecting the team to interact, or I'm just wrong somewhere higher - but I don't know where. I'll probably have to bite the bullet and do a deep dive/reassessment eventually, but for now I'm going to sleep.
Keldeo: A sillier read might be that Silver is not scum with Proph because he is the one who claimed to know Proph's ability name.
The premise is "you specifically don't want to lynch KCC because she's your buddy" not that a lynch would have been good.
I meant not w/w btw. In the vernacular of this site, unaligned means not w/w. I'm not sure there's a way to determine whether two people are not v/v.
You joke about Silver/Proph w/w, but I had an idea that it could be, based on Silver putting Proph in his POE but pushing other people over him most of the time. It's probably not, based on how Silver engaged Proph?
And oh, that makes a lot more sense about "unaligned." I've seen people say "not v/v" to express a feeling that there is a wolf within a pair based on reads or thread feels or something nebulously "slimy" about an interaction, but it's kind of an uncommon read / edge scenario. What do you think are the most likely worlds, re: KCC and Last?
I mean I dont think me answering yes or no will say much of anything, since self bias and everything, but I appreciate it
I have never been the best at articulating my thoughts
I wasn't asking about my townread, though - obviously you would say you're town as any alignment. Was my description of your thought process to KCC on the right track, or were you thinking something different? I'm not a mindreader.
And I mean, maybe the answer is just "he's a dreaming god and they do weird stuff lol," because if Wisp actually knows what his abilities do, I think he is doing a pretty good job of pretending to not have any clue.
The sequence of KCC scumreading Wisp is very... fluid. It feels organic. It feels like she believes in it. And if you're mafia KCC in this situation, why would you push on town Last, who's not dying today, and who's the top poster? So KCC feels natural, agendaless, as well. And her tone feels genuine.
There's a note of discord here, because I feel like there's this sort of gap she's not filling, in how some of her reads interact with each other, or between different observations. She says Proph should mechanically be mafia, but everything still makes sense if he's town, and she doesn't get why he'd target Axel - which are fine observations by themselves, and there's nothing wrong with hedging, but she never joins the observations or comes down on one side, if that makes sense. I don't know how she feels on Proph in the end. She had thoughts about Nacho yesterday and Last today, and thoughts about her wagon, but didn't really put them together.
I'd also forgotten how clean her day 1 wagon was. Not like clean wagons haven't lunched villagers before, I guess.
I'll probably need to go back at some point and reread her day 1 stuff with the counterclaim, and maybe look into that Watchmen game. I at least think she isn't wolves with Proph, and maybe Proph's more likely to be mafia.
Meh. I skimmed KCC's ISO in Watchmen, and nothing really stuck to my brain. Her tone seemed similar enough. Her push on Rhand there kind of gave me echoes of her push on Wisp here, to the extent that two pushes in different situations and game circumstances can. In the end, I think it doesn't really change how I feel, which is conflicted.
So I asked Rhand already, but if anyone else wants to look into that game or was in that game and wants to tell me about it, or even just talk to me about KCC in general, I'm all ears.
My understanding is that the targeter is protected from the kill not the player they targeted based on a follow up post from Proph
I'd rather not take a blue orb and target Vezok with my ability in either case, my Fall one is the only one that's part way decent and I should use it on an unclaimed player, probably, and if I'm protected in advance that takes me out of the pool of night kills entirely
If I trusted Axelrod I would vote he gets it but the PoE is really tight and he's the town read I'm least sure of
I don't see how the blue orb helps to confirm Proph isn't lying - it just confirms he sends people blue orbs, which we already know. It takes people out of the pool of night kills, but that's if he's telling the truth.
But if you don't want to do it and people don't trust Axel enough to do it, then I don't think we can send anyone else to test Proph's role, tonight.
And independently of Rhand’s claim, how do you feel about Vaimes, and fulcrum?
Also, dkings, if you have time could you give a quick update on where your reads are? Where are your strongest leads or scumreads?
Axel, I’m not holding it as a point against you, for pretty much that reason. I brought it up just because I was curious and it was sticking in my mind. Can I ask how you feel about Proph?
I hesitate to read anything into it because if Axel was actually “fairy mafia watcher” or something, why not just say he was “town watcher” and not include the fairy?
That Rhand post about Vaimes that Axel just quoted is interesting in italics because he seemed pretty sure of it (that was late day 1 iirc?) but then flipped on Vaimes when Vaimes claimed day 2, but then also grape claimed later day 2?
I kind of want to say Rhand considering that weird edge case interaction with his conception of Vaimes’ ability is towny?
Rhand, can your action be tracked? Sorry if you answered and I missed it.
Also, what’s your ability name?
KCC, you still have one bus drive shot remaining, right? Was there a reason you didn’t use it last night?
Hmm, sorry, I don’t entirely understand the issue here, either. Vaimes takes roles from living people, while you take from dead people. And I feel like your role would help to reduce swing - it decreases the negative impact of strong town PRs dying early, right?
There is some interesting anti-synergy between your claim and the janitored scum kill.
Can you use an ability in the same night that you take it? For example, if you took tom’s jailing tonight (a fall night), would you have to wait until the next fall night before you could use it?
Are you limited to taking from Town players?
Also, if you were tracked, would it return the dead player you took the role from?
I'll be pretty busy over the weekend and will not be around as much.
--
I think I've said a good amount of this already, stuff seems a bit static and mushy. I haven't really put a lot of effort into sorting my lower reads who aren't viable lynches Today.
Vezok and grapefruit - I think the masons are real. I wish they could be here more. Vezok's claim meant if they were mafia they must have been planning that specific fake mason team from very early on, their thoughts feel genuine, they're independently kinda towny, their conflicting reads/thoughts feel like they don't have an agenda / don't care about appearances.
Dkings and Asta I also believe are town. I am not sure what to make of the fairy telling Asta that he's being protected - if one is mafia I think it is dk. I definitely don't think they're partners, unless dkings is known to fake kind of dramatic "why would mafia ever do this" interactions with his partners? I feel like there's no reason for dk and Asta to make conflicting claims if they are partners. I think Asta is towny because of his tone generally being similar to a past villager game although that's slight, because his role combats the increased majority mechanic, and because I don't see why, if he is mafia and dkings is a villager, he would make this up. I guess I don't see what the motivation is for dkings to make it up if he is mafia, but I think it's possible that his role just doesn't say anything about being loud, and he just wanted to cast doubt on a villager. I am worried by both of them being a bit absent this phase, but I'll take it at face value that they were busy for the holidays.
I think Last is probably town, I just talked about this.
I'm bumping Killjoy up a tier from yesterday. His posting's been a bit sporadic toDay but I think his read on me is genuine, and I'm like, trusting dead villagers who have more meta on him + there's kind of a "thread spew" aspect to this, where it feels like a lot of people were just not considering him. Could say the same about Silver, for that latter part.
I still think Silver is town, as well, but it's less strong. Silver setting up the Proph/KCC dichotomy is not good if they are v/v, but I am not really sure how likely that is.
fulcrum/Axelrod is yet another dichotomy/pairing, I guess. While I thought Axel was posting better d2 than d1, he dropped off a bit Today and didn't post much outside of his action thing, I've been mulling over my thoughts about him, and it's just like. I feel like the core of why I'd take him out of my POE is his role. I didn't think he's lying about most of it and I'm not 100% sure of the use for scum, and it seems to make sense with town's seemingly limited investigative power. But fulcrum apparently disagrees based on her role, and at some point I want fulcrum to be less cryptic about that because I don't really see the similarity or why they can't necessarily coexist as town, as they are claimed. I am still getting kind of "off" vibes about how Fulcrum has treated certain things, but maybe that is just her?? I think her trying to break Proph's ability along with Vaimes' was kind of towny. I've agreed with some of the small things she's noted, like about the masons disagreeing.
I just talked about KCC, too. Her answering me about her Nacho progression earlier today was another thing that felt fluid to me. Her consideration of people pushing her since day 1 has felt a bit more... shallow, maybe? than I would expect? I don't think I'm phrasing this very well.
Rhand - honestly right now I just want to see his claim. A lot of what he says just feels reasonable, but that doesn't make him town or mafia. Intertwined with Rhand's claim is Vaimes, and I kind of want to be lazy and sheep other people and say that Vaimes is town for now, and evaluate more after Rhand claims. I probably also need to reread the early Rhand/Killjoy stuff because if I go in thinking Killjoy is town instead of not being sure, maybe I can get something out of that. Not sure if I have time for this.
Without that info for now, I still want to lynch Proph today, if we can't try to confirm his role. I know it was the holidays, but I just have not been wowed by his content or his actions. I feel like even if Silver is town and Proph picked up on the "color of spring" thing, he still might have been able to lie, if the spring ability is vague enough.
The thing is that within like, Proph/Rhand/KCC/fulcrum/Axel I've come up with enough not-partners reads that it's hard to find a coherent team, so I'm probably wrong with how I'm expecting the team to interact, or I'm just wrong somewhere higher - but I don't know where. I'll probably have to bite the bullet and do a deep dive/reassessment eventually, but for now I'm going to sleep.
I asked you a question about what you'd solve on the KCC wagon, did you see it?
And oh, that makes a lot more sense about "unaligned." I've seen people say "not v/v" to express a feeling that there is a wolf within a pair based on reads or thread feels or something nebulously "slimy" about an interaction, but it's kind of an uncommon read / edge scenario. What do you think are the most likely worlds, re: KCC and Last?
I wasn't asking about my townread, though - obviously you would say you're town as any alignment. Was my description of your thought process to KCC on the right track, or were you thinking something different? I'm not a mindreader.
So I asked Rhand already, but if anyone else wants to look into that game or was in that game and wants to tell me about it, or even just talk to me about KCC in general, I'm all ears.
But if you don't want to do it and people don't trust Axel enough to do it, then I don't think we can send anyone else to test Proph's role, tonight.