Semi feel like some of you are going to CFD on me tomorrow, since some of you are in sheep mode. Others just don't like me for reasons I'm not sure on apart from Eco which I respect because they are being clear and detailed about it. This could be my paranoia speaking of course, but I still remember how Matter went. Anyway going to give my Rhand thoughts in full.
To expand on why I think Grape is town like I said I would eariler. At the start he pinged me a bit which is why he was in my lower null/ scum pile. I liked his more recent stuff though and feel that my dislike of his early game was more my biased mindset of scum reading him every game so far. The main things that i liked were his push on Rhand over the change of view on Grape's own slot and overall bad movement in Rhand's readlist. Even though he did back off once he realized it was a mistake in read lists with my own. The reason I liked this is because he was eager to find a mistake and contradiction this was not shallow scum hunting this had a purpose and a end goal rather then trying to make something stick no matter what. I also saw the way he defended Ego to Axel as townlike, if Grape was scum no need for himself to get involved well unless he is scum with them which I doubt but possible. He has being consistent with his read on Eco and to a lesser degree HR which I disagree with but that is a different matter. Him voting Sloth because not sure what to do also felt town to me because he tried scumhunting on Rhand which failed so felt a bit lost which I sort of believe he was at that point.
This read list he did in 450 which I will put below is also very consistent, with his thoughts throughout the game and does make sense. Especially his consistent reads on Rhand Eco and HR. His recent vote on Rhand also makes sense in that world. I find it weird though on review that Ter is so low when in 380 he sees them as town, in the readlist he says that that tier is null but a bad gut feeling. I understand me and Rhand he never likes me, but the one on Ter does not match. I would like him to expand on that more if possible.
I ISO'd Rhand and Eco and I plan on doing Axel and HR later.
A note on methodology: I intentionally look only at the big picture when I do these, because the quality of individual posts is not necessarily AI and scum have to follow an overall agenda regardless of how well (or poorly) they are playing. In particular, if "the big picture" gives a different impression than reading the posts as they come does, I consider this a sign of a possible agenda.
Rhand's ISO: His content is very underwhelming, even after he stopped complaining about his own cluelessness. He is consistent in that regard, and I did not see any sign he was only pretending. If he's conning us, he's going for the long con.
Gun to my head, Rhand is town.
Eco's ISO: He has lots of content, most of which is explaining himself ( ) and giving his opinion on (then-)current matters. He is part of a small group of players who had no trouble getting strong-ish scum-reads from early-on: he has been tunnelling Jackrito since RVS (over posts I can't see as possibly AI). Most of Eco's push on Jack has been centered on Jack's first content post, but Eco was already voting and scum(ish)-reading him.
Saying Eco pushed Jack is a bit of an exaggeration though, he doesn't go much farther than making sure we know he's scum-reading him. It could be his playstyle but... since when is it anyone's playstyle to vaguely stare at someone you are hardcore tunnelling and not really do anything to them. Until I ISOd him I had no idea he had disliked Jack this much and for so long. All in all it feels like a placeholder scumread, the type you make up so you don't get into trouble for not doing enough scumhunting.
Gun to my head, Eco is scum.
Vote: Ecophagy
My vote is staying there unless I am given an excellent reason to move it.
@VaGoo You said earlier that you thought Jack is town, but also that Eco pushing him made Jack more town. Do you find yourself often using scumreads on people who's alignment you don't know to color your townreads? How often are either of those reads correct?
You are asking about his playstyle in general, how is this going to help you read him during this game in particular?
Tbf what Eco is doing to me is what I'm doing this game to Igno and normally do in general. It's hard for myself personally to convince people so will just keep bringing my issue up to try and get traction. So I expect others also have this issue. It's hard to push the execute on me when most here appear to not scum read me. So don't fault their approuch.
I also personally see agrro pushs like this as town who are tunnel visiose and can't move foward unless given proof. If you remember in Matter I did this to Usami I thinl there were called and you all scum read me for it and I wa town. I think Scum are more likely to spread out attention to have options. If I got killed today and flip town the pressure in them would be high which no scum would want
Like I said yesterday I feel Axel is town and that post just there added to it.
The more the day goes it looks more likely we end up on Rhand today. He is clearly the main person most of us agree on.
I still don't like Igno for reasons given before. It also bothers me how he accused axel weakly of pretending to be a newbie because he thinks scum do that. Now though the way he is playing comes off massively as a new player in their first game not someone playing for 11 month. They is no desire to work this game out and no hint of his own meta he gave at the start. I know some of you see this as pure, but if you are playing like a newbie on purpose it shoukd be easy to look pure. His last post of giving him a day off just annoyed me in genral also.
I gave my thoughts on Sloth a couple of days ago and stand by it. Ter said something similar which makes me feel more confident. I still want him to give a lot more though.
Still don't like Highroller thought his catch up was bad apart from the one point on Rhand. But like I said before leaving that battle for another day.
Grape I feel ok on don't have my notes atm so will expand on later. He is more null then town though so won go there today.
So my vote likely ends up on Rhand unless he really had a mircale comeback. Not went into detail why I think they are scum I dont think,but that is in my notes also.
I know people will accuse me again of not voting Igno since I clearly scum read them. Main reason being too late in the day to get traction, and too many of you are giving them the benefit of doubt day one which is fair. Tomorrow I expect them to do work though to try and change my mind.
Just going to reply to that last post by Highroller point by point that refer to myself and stuff I find relevant.
2- Why is that Axel post so fake to you and why is that bad, a couple of us feel that way about Sloth in my view.
5- Someone can be lying about a role to create cop cover so scum will try and kill them, some town just like to lie to create chaos also to bait scum into mistakes. I hate it personally lying about a role but it does happen and better to judge off overall play as well.
6 Any response in mafia can lead to anything and be seen unneeded because of our own biased world views. I for example think Ter is town so your attack on them could be considered unneeded, but at the same time I need it because it lets me see your world view and thought patterns if they make sense as town or just scum trying to get a quick kill. This is a game of interactions I don't see the issue in pressuring someone to get reactions especially when game was slow it led to a lot of discussion and game movement.
7/8 Its possible for me to think a post is fake, but you can possibly be town because town can do posts that look fake because they can't articulate themselves well. do I see you as town at the moment no not really, but I don't have a ego or charisma enough to push someone nonstop all day off small post content especially when others say you always do this stuff. If you keep to unimpress me like you are I come back to it at a later date, but atm better to work with others on my other scum reads to try and get something achieveable as a group.
HR does bring up some good points on Rhand tbh about his view on HR slot should be null but is not.
I understand your reads on me and Ter, I assume you think we are Buddy Buddy, and I'm defending them unless you have other reasons to see me as scum. I"m not as sure why you see Axel as scum though, is it because they are attacking Eco heaviy also and you think anyone who does that must be scum, or is it the whole Lagoon cop claim reaction. The Rhand read is fair and likely where this game ends today atm unless something changes.
I want your thoughts in detail about everyone else, you have not really talked about many people this game. I need to know who you townread and why to get a clearer view of your mindset.
Still going through my rereads I think that I like Axel, after going through him, I see his level of commitment, to this Eco push and the way that he has argued, with people who don't see the same world as him.I see as more likely to come from town, its hard to agrue a world you know that is wrong so strongly when you know a town flip is coming. Which in most caases puts you up next, scum are more likely to play passive and support bad kills then lead them to avoid blame. I wish that he talked about more players though his only focus is Eco, Highroller and Rhand to a much lesser degree. Which were all copied from Lagoon. He is at the bottom of my townreads though.
Working all day today and tomorrow. Which isn't leaving a lot of time for this.
I had an idea that the next thing I was going to micro-over-analyze was Vaimes and Rhand and this argument of whether Rhand can scumlean two people who he also thinks aren't scumbuddies, but that is probably going to have to wait.
On the subject of Rhand, you said at one point you did not like their 346 and would expand on it later, did you ever do that because think I missed it if you did when I relooked over game. You sort of went on this Eco hunt after that and not really looked back.
• Axel being so pushy about Eco is uncharacteristic for him, especially on Day 1. His case, while good, is not that strong, and Grape's interpretation of the Ecognorimus interaction is logically valid (as in "it may be correct", not as in "it is correct for sure").
It also gives me pause that Axel jumped straight to casing Eco and voting him over a single event from 300 posts ago, when Eco has a lot of content and many pros and cons. Coming from anyone it would be suspicious, coming from Axel (who, as town, hates jumping to conclusions) it is doubly so.
• On Goo VS Rhand, I agree with Goo it would be more logical for Rhand to sort Axel a little higher (even if he has to dedicate a category to him). That being said, how does scum-Rhand benefit from being illogical here? It's not as if it would prevent him from voting Axel after a town-Goo flip, or at any point for that matter.
I don't really understand why you're so insistent on forcing a read on me right now other than because it bothers you.
Because you were the only one I could see having a scum mindset. Also, you've done multiple things that were , but none that were scummy for sure, so I can neither ignore you nor crusade against you.
This is the chain of events I was referring to. The consistent through line is pretty clear to me. Eco initially soft clears him while asking leading questions to generate content for others to analyze, then the situation changes and his initial questions aren't that relevant because it turned out Igno wasn't in fact a new player and those questions were specific to the assumption that he was new town.
My issue with this is how quickly it happened, Eco switched right away from figuring out Igno to guiding the newb town even though their response wasn't that telling. Which, to be fair, could be sloppy town play (making assumptions and jumping to conclusions).
Mine's more like this! Townie
Killjoy (if their goal was to pocket me they've succeeded :sweat:)
Town Seeming
Axel
Lagoon
Ter
Upper Null
Rhand
Jack
Grape
ZDS
Lower Null
Highroller
Sloth
Scumish
Eco
Scum
None
What made you change your mind regarding Axel and Eco?
———
Unvote
Vote: Axelrod
IGMEOY: Ecophagy
unvote
My reason for changing my mind on Axel was because of a read someone else made - apparently if Axel starts to give out some good analysis about mid-D1 he's much more likely to be town. I'm still not so sure on this read someone else made, because he seems to be pretty experienced so this may ops till be in his woof-range, but I'm willing to sheep the read someone made on him.
As for Eco, I'm gonna be really hypocritical but the assumptions he's made wrt to me are worse than mine by quite a margin. Those kid gloves are kinda because of how he went along with that string of posts he made, similar to how many woofs would go "okayI asked about this now my work here is done."
It sounds like you are just willing to sheep reads tbh, and you have said as much yourself. Your whole Eco thing from earlier was you Sheeping ZDS big post on them. I thought that was what made you change your mind on them not what you say here. Also you say after when questioned by Echo. Eco is only bottom for you because everyone else is null or just existing. You just appear to be very non committal and want to be on the good side of everyone and just saying what you think people want to hear. You seem to feel Axel is scum, but are yet again sheeping someone else, do you think he is living to the meta given of good analysis in mid day 1. You seem to rely heavily on meta to get stuff done which I get, but it seems like you just ask for it and never use it yourself.
I gave you room to breath to play your natural game, but you are just sheeping which is bothering me if you have reads push them, I refuse to believe you only see Eco as scum here. I don't fully get your own reason about kids gloves either tbh.
I won't be able to post properly till later tonight/ tomorrow. Which is when I will catch up better rather then skim read.
Atm though my reads are not that different. I'm semi doubling down on my Eco town read even though it goes aganist what I said eariler about voting there. I thought about it and can't really explain right now, but I don't see their work this game as scum like espically their giant post on everyone. Slso hen two big egos clash like them and Ter in my exp it os normally town also. People who strongly scummy ad me early and push it non stop are normally town also. I know my play can annoy people and will scumread me for it. So I have no intrest in voting them today.
I also changed my mind on Sloth and think they are town for dumb reasons. He is annoying me this game sure with being so little impact. I think this is more likely to come from his town play though. As scum I would expect him to try more out of respect to team. Only tine I saw him as scum he was the driving force of his team. I don't think he is the type to low effort when in a small team. You all know him better though do could be wrong.
I'm also accepting that I'm likely wrong on High roller, and will vote elsewhere later. Multiple people have told me now this is NAI.
This leaves me with Igno Axel Rhand and Grape. When free later I intend to look at them in more detail. I'm not saying all are scum but I don't see any as town right now.
Wait I was caught in snow White. I thought I subbed out before gaining real heat. That game was a terrible example though, and me barely trying. Which sadly is turning into a trend in my scum games here. Finding it hard to find thread footing, and subbing out in embrassment. Seasons being the other key example which us a shame since my scum play is better then my town.
Actual bringing up Snow White though eases my mind a bit on ZDS though because he does have reasons which I expect him to have if town.
The battle lines are drawn. I think this is an unusual amount of opposite-read groups for D1, but it is at least organic. Conventional wisdom would suggest there are mafia in the in-between group - of which I would call Grapefruit the best fit because a weak town-Eco read is closest to supporting a "side" without committment. KJ also hasn't come out with particularly hard reads ("Eco/Ter maybe not w/w?" is not groundbreaking).
I would like to know:
Axelrod - How do you feel about being low on the reads list of your town reads?
Highroller - What do you think about Rhand?
Jackrito - Your town reads disagree with you about Ecophagy. Do you think they're wrong?
I think he's scum because his view of her play feels incredibly warped, and I don't like how uber-protective of Ecophagy he is. It does not look like it's coming from an early Day 1 villager.
Anyone but Highroller and I'd be more inclined to agree. But you know Highroller's meta is to go straight to 100 and never back down.
We're arguing that hedging doesn't exist and/or is definitely town? K, cool.
Negative. Hedging in general remains scummy. In this particular instance I would have expected scum to seize the opportunity to make a "justifiable" vote in the early game. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
Eco is my weakest town read so I'm not willing to fight over it because I could clearly be wrong I think you are all better then me and in the past I have shown I'm not the best judge of character. In situations like this it is better to side with the people you townread more to try and get a group dynamic going.
[font=georgia]I think if Eco's scum Axel is marginally +town. Shielding him for basically no reason makes them look related (in my biased Eco-is- view), but Axel is a big boy who can defend himself on his own against an ignoramus.
Jack disappearing for ~2 days and miraculously reappearing as soon as Ter asked him a question made me jump, but the analysis dump afterwards was decent and somewhat justifies the absence. It looks like he put thought into these reads and isn't just bull*****ting, like he is capable of doing.
Rhand having a hard time forming opinion is a good thing (to a minor extent), since scum-him could easily throw a couple logical or consensual town reads here or there to pretend he's doing something and hide among the crowd. I think he is legitimately struggling.
Highroller going after someone who made a bad early-Day 1 push is... typical Highroller. He's allergic to bad attacks even when it's early Day 1 and everything is flimsy .
I'm interested why you think I'm capable of BS reads. I can for sure but not sure you have ever seen me do it, to feel so confident that I have ablity to and what makes you feel I'm not here. Also my reappearance is more because of the prod by host.
Semi agree with your Rhand view, its rare for scum to not try and make something up to look town, its harder as town to do this because you are trying to work out the game and would not waste time with fake reads.
On Highroller so you think his weird push is nai and something he would do as either town or scum. So I'm looking way too much into it and should focus elsewhere.
Apparently it’s necessary, so here’s my view on the game in more words. I’ll put this part in a spoiler because it’s just a bunch of nothingness and I don’t want to clog up the thread with a pointless wall.
Page 1: A bunch of gif’s and Grape accusing Axel for no reason.
Page 2: More gif’s among which the one where Grape “killed” KJ with an Indiana Jones gif. Which was clearly a joke because no mod ever will give you a role that says “Quote someone’s post and add this gif and that person will die”. So yeh, more nothingness on this page.
I guess Terraine looks ok with trying to get things started somewhat.
I have no idea how ZDS comes out of this with townreads / mindmelds with KJ and Grape. (he says it’s for their takes on Axel and each other later. Ok I guess, I don’t see it but :shrug:).
Page 3: Ignoramus’ entrance is totally NAI, as is the questioning of his entrance by Ter / Eco and the suspicion by Axel. I get that it’s a bad Axel vote, so I understand the talk about it, but it’s not scummy bad. Just bad. Which also explains ZDS coming to a townread there. It’s all fine.
Then there’s the Eco is coaching thing which is really too little to get a read out of. I have to squint to detect the coaching to start with and helping a new player can come from helpful town and pocketing mafia both.
I understand Terraine’s push on Eco, but I don’t agree that making assumptions is scummy. Town does that too. Making that whole thing NAI.
Page 4: Grape’s town read on KJ is well explained: he knows it’s a flimsy one because the dayvig thing was clearly not a dayvig. Vaimes’ reaction to that is also understandable.
Rest of the page is just random talk that leads nowhere.
Page 5: I can see Igno go for that Axel read as both alignments. ZDS is paying attention but his big post is NAI. The whole conversation about Eco / Ignoramus feels totally useless. As do the questions KJ and Eco ask him (maybe not useless for them to get to know Igno a bit, but they won’t advance the game / reveal alignment info).
And then we arrive where I was with my “this whole game is NAI and I find nothing to talk about” issue.
@Rhand You know if you can't see anything to have opinions on you need to do something like ask questions or vote. Why are you pretending that you don't know how to generate Day 1 reads?
What makes you think I’m pretending anything? I will get Day 1 reads. I just need something to trigger me. So far there’s just nothing.
Highroller seems to go a bit too hard at Terraine. But it’s Highroller, that’s NAI for him.
Is Jackrito scumreading half the game?
Condensed, it seems like he’s saying:
(lean) Town: ZDS, Ter, Lagoon, Eco
(lean) Scum: HR, Igno, Grape, Sloth, Rhand, Axel
That’s way too many scumreads (and reads in general for the content that we have).
@Jackrito: do you approach the game with a guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty mindset?
I would say my approach is a mix of both it depends on the person. I tend to give certain people more the benefit of doubt and just hope/assume they are town early. I'm a sucker for hard effort which makes me a easy pocket target for the hard working scum. For greater context on my reads it would be Sloth you and Axel are more null. Grape is a soft scum read and Highroller and Igno being my more higher scum reads.But this game lacks deep content so hard to have really strong scum reads.
@Jackrito: Was your first vote on goooLagoon a joke vote, or did you see something worth investigating? Why are you voting HR over ignoramus when you read on the latter is stronger?
It was joke/RVS Lagoon had not done anything to bother me, we also have some past history so all in good fun.
I went for Highroller over Ignoramus, because Highroller post that bothered me was recent and stood out to me and is the most fake thing this game imo. Ignoramus on the other hand has had a fair bit of pressure already and is in answering questions mode already. So I wanted to give them some breathing room to play their natural game, and not just tunnel a new person like I did in my last game.
Not a big fan of Highroller recent post and vote, mainly because it is the reverse of my own view on Terr, and it feels like a forced read I can't believe he thinks Terr questions on Eco are too much.
Terr went after Ecophagy five times in less than two hours/16 posts. You regard that as a normal amount?
That is called applying pressure and a ongoing push that is not unheard of in these games, and moves them forward. It lets us see the mindset of both more clearly, how else do you expect us to get anywhere. Going after someone 5 times in 2 hours as you call it I personally don't see as high either.
This read list he did in 450 which I will put below is also very consistent, with his thoughts throughout the game and does make sense. Especially his consistent reads on Rhand Eco and HR. His recent vote on Rhand also makes sense in that world. I find it weird though on review that Ter is so low when in 380 he sees them as town, in the readlist he says that that tier is null but a bad gut feeling. I understand me and Rhand he never likes me, but the one on Ter does not match. I would like him to expand on that more if possible.
Grape!
KJ, Eco, HR
ZDS, Ignoramus
VaGoo, Axel
Rhand, Jack, Ter
Sloth
Tbf what Eco is doing to me is what I'm doing this game to Igno and normally do in general. It's hard for myself personally to convince people so will just keep bringing my issue up to try and get traction. So I expect others also have this issue. It's hard to push the execute on me when most here appear to not scum read me. So don't fault their approuch.
I also personally see agrro pushs like this as town who are tunnel visiose and can't move foward unless given proof. If you remember in Matter I did this to Usami I thinl there were called and you all scum read me for it and I wa town. I think Scum are more likely to spread out attention to have options. If I got killed today and flip town the pressure in them would be high which no scum would want
The more the day goes it looks more likely we end up on Rhand today. He is clearly the main person most of us agree on.
I still don't like Igno for reasons given before. It also bothers me how he accused axel weakly of pretending to be a newbie because he thinks scum do that. Now though the way he is playing comes off massively as a new player in their first game not someone playing for 11 month. They is no desire to work this game out and no hint of his own meta he gave at the start. I know some of you see this as pure, but if you are playing like a newbie on purpose it shoukd be easy to look pure. His last post of giving him a day off just annoyed me in genral also.
I gave my thoughts on Sloth a couple of days ago and stand by it. Ter said something similar which makes me feel more confident. I still want him to give a lot more though.
Still don't like Highroller thought his catch up was bad apart from the one point on Rhand. But like I said before leaving that battle for another day.
Grape I feel ok on don't have my notes atm so will expand on later. He is more null then town though so won go there today.
So my vote likely ends up on Rhand unless he really had a mircale comeback. Not went into detail why I think they are scum I dont think,but that is in my notes also.
I know people will accuse me again of not voting Igno since I clearly scum read them. Main reason being too late in the day to get traction, and too many of you are giving them the benefit of doubt day one which is fair. Tomorrow I expect them to do work though to try and change my mind.
2- Why is that Axel post so fake to you and why is that bad, a couple of us feel that way about Sloth in my view.
5- Someone can be lying about a role to create cop cover so scum will try and kill them, some town just like to lie to create chaos also to bait scum into mistakes. I hate it personally lying about a role but it does happen and better to judge off overall play as well.
6 Any response in mafia can lead to anything and be seen unneeded because of our own biased world views. I for example think Ter is town so your attack on them could be considered unneeded, but at the same time I need it because it lets me see your world view and thought patterns if they make sense as town or just scum trying to get a quick kill. This is a game of interactions I don't see the issue in pressuring someone to get reactions especially when game was slow it led to a lot of discussion and game movement.
7/8 Its possible for me to think a post is fake, but you can possibly be town because town can do posts that look fake because they can't articulate themselves well. do I see you as town at the moment no not really, but I don't have a ego or charisma enough to push someone nonstop all day off small post content especially when others say you always do this stuff. If you keep to unimpress me like you are I come back to it at a later date, but atm better to work with others on my other scum reads to try and get something achieveable as a group.
HR does bring up some good points on Rhand tbh about his view on HR slot should be null but is not.
I understand your reads on me and Ter, I assume you think we are Buddy Buddy, and I'm defending them unless you have other reasons to see me as scum. I"m not as sure why you see Axel as scum though, is it because they are attacking Eco heaviy also and you think anyone who does that must be scum, or is it the whole Lagoon cop claim reaction. The Rhand read is fair and likely where this game ends today atm unless something changes.
I want your thoughts in detail about everyone else, you have not really talked about many people this game. I need to know who you townread and why to get a clearer view of your mindset.
Still going through my rereads I think that I like Axel, after going through him, I see his level of commitment, to this Eco push and the way that he has argued, with people who don't see the same world as him.I see as more likely to come from town, its hard to agrue a world you know that is wrong so strongly when you know a town flip is coming. Which in most caases puts you up next, scum are more likely to play passive and support bad kills then lead them to avoid blame. I wish that he talked about more players though his only focus is Eco, Highroller and Rhand to a much lesser degree. Which were all copied from Lagoon. He is at the bottom of my townreads though.
On the subject of Rhand, you said at one point you did not like their 346 and would expand on it later, did you ever do that because think I missed it if you did when I relooked over game. You sort of went on this Eco hunt after that and not really looked back.
It sounds like you are just willing to sheep reads tbh, and you have said as much yourself. Your whole Eco thing from earlier was you Sheeping ZDS big post on them. I thought that was what made you change your mind on them not what you say here. Also you say after when questioned by Echo. Eco is only bottom for you because everyone else is null or just existing. You just appear to be very non committal and want to be on the good side of everyone and just saying what you think people want to hear. You seem to feel Axel is scum, but are yet again sheeping someone else, do you think he is living to the meta given of good analysis in mid day 1. You seem to rely heavily on meta to get stuff done which I get, but it seems like you just ask for it and never use it yourself.
I gave you room to breath to play your natural game, but you are just sheeping which is bothering me if you have reads push them, I refuse to believe you only see Eco as scum here. I don't fully get your own reason about kids gloves either tbh.
Atm though my reads are not that different. I'm semi doubling down on my Eco town read even though it goes aganist what I said eariler about voting there. I thought about it and can't really explain right now, but I don't see their work this game as scum like espically their giant post on everyone. Slso hen two big egos clash like them and Ter in my exp it os normally town also. People who strongly scummy ad me early and push it non stop are normally town also. I know my play can annoy people and will scumread me for it. So I have no intrest in voting them today.
I also changed my mind on Sloth and think they are town for dumb reasons. He is annoying me this game sure with being so little impact. I think this is more likely to come from his town play though. As scum I would expect him to try more out of respect to team. Only tine I saw him as scum he was the driving force of his team. I don't think he is the type to low effort when in a small team. You all know him better though do could be wrong.
I'm also accepting that I'm likely wrong on High roller, and will vote elsewhere later. Multiple people have told me now this is NAI.
This leaves me with Igno Axel Rhand and Grape. When free later I intend to look at them in more detail. I'm not saying all are scum but I don't see any as town right now.
Actual bringing up Snow White though eases my mind a bit on ZDS though because he does have reasons which I expect him to have if town.
Eco is my weakest town read so I'm not willing to fight over it because I could clearly be wrong I think you are all better then me and in the past I have shown I'm not the best judge of character. In situations like this it is better to side with the people you townread more to try and get a group dynamic going.
I'm interested why you think I'm capable of BS reads. I can for sure but not sure you have ever seen me do it, to feel so confident that I have ablity to and what makes you feel I'm not here. Also my reappearance is more because of the prod by host.
Semi agree with your Rhand view, its rare for scum to not try and make something up to look town, its harder as town to do this because you are trying to work out the game and would not waste time with fake reads.
On Highroller so you think his weird push is nai and something he would do as either town or scum. So I'm looking way too much into it and should focus elsewhere.
I would say my approach is a mix of both it depends on the person. I tend to give certain people more the benefit of doubt and just hope/assume they are town early. I'm a sucker for hard effort which makes me a easy pocket target for the hard working scum. For greater context on my reads it would be Sloth you and Axel are more null. Grape is a soft scum read and Highroller and Igno being my more higher scum reads.But this game lacks deep content so hard to have really strong scum reads.
It was joke/RVS Lagoon had not done anything to bother me, we also have some past history so all in good fun.
I went for Highroller over Ignoramus, because Highroller post that bothered me was recent and stood out to me and is the most fake thing this game imo. Ignoramus on the other hand has had a fair bit of pressure already and is in answering questions mode already. So I wanted to give them some breathing room to play their natural game, and not just tunnel a new person like I did in my last game.
That is called applying pressure and a ongoing push that is not unheard of in these games, and moves them forward. It lets us see the mindset of both more clearly, how else do you expect us to get anywhere. Going after someone 5 times in 2 hours as you call it I personally don't see as high either.