I thought having all this content to come back to would make reads easier. It has not.
I still feel pretty confident the KCC slot (now Rodemy) is scum. But lynching Rodemy here feels like a dick move. A few of my reads kind of rely on this slot to flip. So leaving it for next Day.
I've been wary of Rhand and his push on GJ cemented that. I think GJ's responses were valid. Definitely down to lynch Rhand. If he comes up town, I'll probably change my mind on GJ.
ZDS' Flarg SK theory - Well to go through this work indicates ZDS is likely town. It used to be a meta evidence thing that if someone is SK hunting, they aren't scum-hunting, so they're probably scum. But he didn't immediately come out as SK hunting, it was just a result of the claim mid-case. I think ZDS' points are still valid, but I'm not totally sold on it. I didn't think his "shoot yourself" strategy was all that bad, because it gives us a deadline to prove himself. But I'd rather him shoot scum (if there's even shots remaining). So yes, he's either the vig or the SK, but his posts lead me more toward vig. We can't rule out he may be SK, even with limited shots.
Jack's play continues to bother me with the non-stop flip-flops. Would still be okay with a lynch here but probably not a lot of support.
Sloth is bullet-proof. Nearly confirmed town.
I'm still mad at Tom for taking KJ away from me.
Vote Rhand
If your reads depend on a Rodemy flip not sure why you want to keep them alive for another day, it's also not a real dick move if you think they are scum so dont see the issue here.
I do agree with your point on Rhand and Gj though and also on ZDS.
I really don't know what I'm flip floping on atm and if I am it is because I'm reevaluating my reads based off posts and other stuff. I explained why I don't see you as scum anymore. Also why Flarg is no longer scum for me but KCC/Rodemy is and Rhand.
To start off, this ******* SK situation annoys the hell out of me. I hate it when I think something has been established as definitively (or nearly definitively) not a part of the set-up and then it turns out it isn't because it's not what I thought. Forces me to rework ******* everything.
Also scumvig?? That's a thing? Why is that a thing? Don't they already have an NK? In my Claim post I pointed out that Scum having two NKs seemed very unlikely and now it turns out it could be the case? Ugh.
For the time being, this moves both my cellmates from nigh-townfirmed status. Other reads are possibly affected, but I'll look into that more later.
Grape was a personal scum read for me anyway as shown in my readlist yesterday, KCC reasons were her pointing to posts Grape did at a time when Grape should of being told by Tom that KJ was scum, but he was still seeing KJ as null in thread and only said he was overposting. Next she took issue witb Grape thinking that Tom was reaction testing him at the time of the message, her reason being that someone telling you that KJ is scum and seeing it as a test is a sign of a guilty mind, which I diasagree with personally.
Final thing she said was that she was how shocked she is that Grape done so little but makes sense if he is certain KJ is scum then said she hopes no one pressures him too fast to see how he reacts.
I also just noticed in her read list she posted in our chat has ZDS in the middle and she saw Grape Tubba and Zion as worse. Also YWF and Vaimes on the same level so her leap to attacking ZDS so much and not Zion or Tubba is a bit weird tbh. She also never really build on why she sees Zion as scum apart from as scum he is creative when he is replying to peoples posts and changing their intent. Said nothing on Tubba as well
Ok, so. In a world where KCC is scum, I think this post shows that there's no scumvig.
Case on Grape was, going by Jack's description (and Jack correct me if I'm reading this wrong), weak and not thought-out, to the point where it draws suspicion on her.
Scumvig likely would have told her who their target was, thus her options would have been (1) work on a strong grape case so when he flips it doesn't make your weakass push bad, in fact makes you a strong townread based on conviction; (2) simply don't mention grape at all (or just in passing) and act surprised when he dies.
I would have gone for 2 personally. I feel scum!KCC was setting up Grape for a ML on D2, not an overnight kill.
Regardless, KCC/Flarg unaligned.
I would agree with your overall point with hindsight it does look like she was setting up a mislynch on Grape and Zion based off what she said. This is all going off the assumption that Zion is town as well. Her case on Grape was not the best I think she just wanted to push it because she knew me and ZDS were not really townreading Grape at the time
vote jackrito he is the one that felt scummy in the beginning, was not on the end wagon, and also not on the grapefruit wagon.
They chose to kill the third wagon.
His post at the start of the day pings me because he was on zionite yesterDay and said “I was gonna push grape today, but why not zionite?” He said one of them but like, I feel like that is fake distancing from grape.
the kill definitely felt distancey and mentioning that you scumread him is a good way of distancing.
Well since if all info is correct town killed Grape this does not work. On why I'm not pushing Zion I'm not still 100 sold he is town but the people I see as more scum like are voting him and have being most of the game. You ask why I was not on end wagon because at a point I started to think Kj was town mainly after his claim and how people reacted to it.
I'm still good with any of the top 3 wagons, still not sure how I feel about Flarg's claim though. Since really not sure how viable a SK in this setup would be. I think Rodemy/KCC has the higher chance of flipping scum but dont mind if Flarg dies still.
They was more but those are the main points only real other thing was KCC showing us how scummy Grape was
Possibly irrelevant question: What's your opinion of KCC's case on Grape? You mentioned he was one of your scumreads until his flip.
I'm looking for signs that her case was strong, thought-out and legitimate - at least in your opinion.
Something else that bothers me while rereading Rhand is that he came out at one point with the view Zion and Kj could both be scum, this bothers me because it is so similar to Flarg view that both are town which also happens within 30 posts of each other. one being 997 which is Flarg and Rhand being 1040
Sloth likes this post.
@Rhand: I actually asked about this D1, I think? Were did the idea that they could be w/w come from? Did KJ move away from null at one point to you and how did that end up happening? what indication did you have that they were aligned, even?
Grape was a personal scum read for me anyway as shown in my readlist yesterday, KCC reasons were her pointing to posts Grape did at a time when Grape should of being told by Tom that KJ was scum, but he was still seeing KJ as null in thread and only said he was overposting. Next she took issue witb Grape thinking that Tom was reaction testing him at the time of the message, her reason being that someone telling you that KJ is scum and seeing it as a test is a sign of a guilty mind, which I diasagree with personally.
Final thing she said was that she was how shocked she is that Grape done so little but makes sense if he is certain KJ is scum then said she hopes no one pressures him too fast to see how he reacts.
I also just noticed in her read list she posted in our chat has ZDS in the middle and she saw Grape Tubba and Zion as worse. Also YWF and Vaimes on the same level so her leap to attacking ZDS so much and not Zion or Tubba is a bit weird tbh. She also never really build on why she sees Zion as scum apart from as scum he is creative when he is replying to peoples posts and changing their intent. Said nothing on Tubba as well
I'm convinced ZDS is mafia, and I'm not going to start arguing with him because I have very bad experiences with that.
YesterDay he was complaining about the game state without doing anything to change it himself.
He spent a whole post explaining that he thinks Zio and KJ are both town, but he did nothing to get anyone else lynched.
He attacks Flarg toDay and the only other people he talks about are those that think Flarg is town, shading them while trying to get Flarg ran up.
This is his answer, which does nothing to move the needle for me.
My Day 1 play was uncharacteristic and I intentionally stayed in the background. The alternative would have been voting based on the first five or so pages of the thread and letting my vote rot away or (worse) be a distraction, while I'm too busy or too in a different time zone to actually matter.
I'm actually fine with his response since it matches with what he said at night and also I think is something a town could do and have seen done in the past.
On his gamestate thing complaining he gave decent enough reasons for me, also yesterday as scum he could easily of just jumped on either and got no blame it, other side is also true that scum would sit back but overall the lack of commitment is a worst move. His attack of flarg I see as town as shpon in last post
Like Wisp Said I think ZDS is just insane tunneling to a degree and I don't see a wolf doing it in this situation, espically when their standing is so bad. I can sort of get behind his view on the Sk side, but not sure if worth the risk. I'm also not sure who ZDS would be scum with here since I'm the only one who bothers to defend him while others want to jump on him. Maybe I'm wrong here which is possible but I think he honestly bellieves he is right on Flarg like Tom did on KJ this level of commitment is hard to see from a wolf imo.
I am not that sold on Flarg being lock wolf yet, as you can tell from Sloth's quote of mine
but Rhand and KCC can die
but the world does make sense
like sure ZDS's case is probably as reachy as Toms, but its a case? none the less
there really isnt reason to wolf read him for it
like Proph said, Dont assume someone is malicious when it can be chopped down to either stupidity or playing bad
@LW: You do know I was already scumreading ZDS yesterDay, right? And KCC's scumread on him clearly built up overNight. The case on Flarg is not the reason why I think ZDS is scum. The reason I was breaking it apart was to show that it's a bad (and probably scum-motivated) case and a bad reason to run up Flarg.
by sentences
1. Why?
2. and? seriously what's the point here?
3. ok?
4. Is it maliciously bad, or just bad? because there is a difference because I want to say that Tom's push on Killjoy was bad, but I dont think at this time that it was malicious
1. Because you're saying ZDS's case isn't a reason to wolf read him. But that isn't the reason I wolfread him.
2. Same with KCC. The case isn't the reason for her read.
3. You want to kill us both for voting ZDS after that case, but now you're not interested in why we actually vote ZDS?
4. I think it is yes, and I have severe doubts about tom still too. Especially because he doesn't answer our question.
Why do you wolfread him then.
Not sure how you know KCC read grew so much over night, like I said multiple times he came off as more town to me overnight who was the only other person there. KCC reasons seem to be not liking his Flarg case which was partly mine as well, but like I said no one blames me at all only him is weird.
Yesterday was TvT on the major wagons (at least I think, but if Zion is Scum, add another told-ya-so to my list) so I'm pretty sus of most of the players that just let it happpen.
Jesus Christ, Flarg, that's not how that works.
Talk to me about why you think Zion is now Town; I want to hear your (sober) process on this.
Lack of counterwagon, general thread stall, and lack of progression/lack of desire for a CFD in general leads me to think Scum were content with the thread in the way it was. Maybe they have giant balls but I feel strongly enough about it to reverse my read.
I like Sloth's process on me, I don't like ZDS's and weirdly I feel like he's using his push on me to remain silent on most of the game which he missed out D1 on. I am biased and OMGUS is real though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Does he actually believe theres such a thing as objectively wolfy and meta isnt real?
Would he actually consider what he did yesterday "leading a wagon on zionite"?
We ironically need some flarg meta pretty badly here gimme your opinions
spoiler alert Tom when I'm mafia I'll say what's convenient
"Flarg believes meta isn't real" is the best tabloid headline of the game. I don't believe it's not real, I believe it's not useful without other factors. To whomever asked earlier, I weigh it around tone reads, but a bit more. Good enough to perk your ears up or get a lean from null, generally pretty bad for a lynch.
Anyway, this is all irrelevant, I shot Grape. Cell can more-or-less confirm it, I never said "I'm gonna shoot Grape" but I got pretttttty close.
Can you guys move onto something useful now so I can get my motivation for playing back? I'm gonna go actually do the thing I promised and read back on some of the cases and see where I fall on that.
if this is true I wish you shot Zion instead since you clearly scum read him more based off yesterday, That is the play as vig that way we get the most info and know people stances for sure, now we are stuck with people stuck on Zion again today which could be true or could be another mislynch. This being true will also confirm Sloth for sure.
Anyway moving on ZDS stance is mostly mine so saying he is using it as a excuse is a bit harsh, I understand his focus since it was the main thing we talked about and makes sense that is his main view. That being said I have no real idea his views on others since he said most are null which bothered me but I think he was still behind in the game, he also said finding scum intent is hard since he came back from retirement . His last post in our chat was he wanted to prod others today which I have not seen much of.
Something else that bothers me while rereading Rhand is that he came out at one point with the view Zion and Kj could both be scum, this bothers me because it is so similar to Flarg view that both are town which also happens within 30 posts of each other. one being 997 which is Flarg and Rhand being 1040
Also fine with KCC for reasons said and also reasons given by others. KCC Rhand and Flarg all seem to scumread Zion as well based off day one all played the null game on Kj and now all defending each other. That is too many concidences for me tbh. It is rare to catch a whole team at once but the connections are unnerving
Well that is one of my scum reads I was going to push today gone, I had a long discussion last night with my cellmates and this feels right to me.
vote: FlargBlarg
KKC really disagrees with me on this though, also I feel better about ZDS after night discussion, I still think chance he is scum but not as much as I did yesterday.
Talk to me about ZDS: What made you feel better about him exactly?
Also, you (clearly) side with him over KC. What about KC's arguments didn't pan?
I felt better about him because of real time interactions, he came off as someone wanting to find scum. Most of my issues from yesterday were tone and him always behind behind but shading others. Actually seeing him put effort in and agreeing with me on Flarg and not just sheeping helped a lot.
I will explain the KCC thing in full she first entered after I had pretty much decided Flarg was scum and gave reasons. Her first stance was to reread him but said he was slight town, but she was certain Zion was scum and wanted yto review Grape because if KJ.
She then fully town read Flarge because he sounded pure in his read on KJ. Then said that she liked how Flarge put his foot down aganist Tom but was careful not to shade anyone on the wagon. I personally saw this as a scum move more.
Another example is Flarge relief when Wisp agreed. Also said with Frage Stance on KJ he put himself into a corner and could never be anti KJ but we all know he did.
She also likes probing questions to Zion and Vaimes which showed scum hunting. Her final point was that Flarge flip after KJ flip made perfect sense if not used to town RB. Also said no scum motive to throw away town cred to reverse their view. Me and ZDS disagreed because made more sense then a town doing it.
My counter agurment was that Flarge gave him room throughout by always calling KJ null which did not not fit his actions. Also having the top poster as null is BS espically when he called someone out on having null read on Wisp.
Next we got to our second argument based on Flarge giving up Zion push to try and lynch an inactive which makes no sense as town. You surely go for your top scum read not take a chance on a inactive
They was more but those are the main points only real other thing was KCC showing us how scummy Grape was
Hm. Wasn't there more than one person calling KJ null?
Also, overall, what's your read on KC then?
Rhand also calls KJ null noticed that just now when relooking at him. He also had KCC as his top town with you and YWF. His read list bothers me because it has 4 nulls wguch are Wisp, Vaimes, Tubba and Kj that is far too many in my view for that point on day 1.
I'm fine with a Rhand lynch today also he has a lot of the flaws Flarg does and his defense of Flarge bothers me also
Well that is one of my scum reads I was going to push today gone, I had a long discussion last night with my cellmates and this feels right to me.
vote: FlargBlarg
KKC really disagrees with me on this though, also I feel better about ZDS after night discussion, I still think chance he is scum but not as much as I did yesterday.
Talk to me about ZDS: What made you feel better about him exactly?
Also, you (clearly) side with him over KC. What about KC's arguments didn't pan?
I felt better about him because of real time interactions, he came off as someone wanting to find scum. Most of my issues from yesterday were tone and him always behind behind but shading others. Actually seeing him put effort in and agreeing with me on Flarg and not just sheeping helped a lot.
I will explain the KCC thing in full she first entered after I had pretty much decided Flarg was scum and gave reasons. Her first stance was to reread him but said he was slight town, but she was certain Zion was scum and wanted yto review Grape because if KJ.
She then fully town read Flarge because he sounded pure in his read on KJ. Then said that she liked how Flarge put his foot down aganist Tom but was careful not to shade anyone on the wagon. I personally saw this as a scum move more.
Another example is Flarge relief when Wisp agreed. Also said with Frage Stance on KJ he put himself into a corner and could never be anti KJ but we all know he did.
She also likes probing questions to Zion and Vaimes which showed scum hunting. Her final point was that Flarge flip after KJ flip made perfect sense if not used to town RB. Also said no scum motive to throw away town cred to reverse their view. Me and ZDS disagreed because made more sense then a town doing it.
My counter agurment was that Flarge gave him room throughout by always calling KJ null which did not not fit his actions. Also having the top poster as null is BS espically when he called someone out on having null read on Wisp.
Next we got to our second argument based on Flarge giving up Zion push to try and lynch an inactive which makes no sense as town. You surely go for your top scum read not take a chance on a inactive
They was more but those are the main points only real other thing was KCC showing us how scummy Grape was
Hm. Wasn't there more than one person calling KJ null?
Also, overall, what's your read on KC then?
Depends on the Flarge flip to a degree but I don't like how ZDS is getting attacked by her, but I'm not. It just seems like trying to take adv of someone in a bad spot. So I would lean scum.
If your reads depend on a Rodemy flip not sure why you want to keep them alive for another day, it's also not a real dick move if you think they are scum so dont see the issue here.
I do agree with your point on Rhand and Gj though and also on ZDS.
I really don't know what I'm flip floping on atm and if I am it is because I'm reevaluating my reads based off posts and other stuff. I explained why I don't see you as scum anymore. Also why Flarg is no longer scum for me but KCC/Rodemy is and Rhand.
Flarg is likely not scum so no point staying on that.
I would agree with your overall point with hindsight it does look like she was setting up a mislynch on Grape and Zion based off what she said. This is all going off the assumption that Zion is town as well. Her case on Grape was not the best I think she just wanted to push it because she knew me and ZDS were not really townreading Grape at the time
Well since if all info is correct town killed Grape this does not work. On why I'm not pushing Zion I'm not still 100 sold he is town but the people I see as more scum like are voting him and have being most of the game. You ask why I was not on end wagon because at a point I started to think Kj was town mainly after his claim and how people reacted to it.
Grape was a personal scum read for me anyway as shown in my readlist yesterday, KCC reasons were her pointing to posts Grape did at a time when Grape should of being told by Tom that KJ was scum, but he was still seeing KJ as null in thread and only said he was overposting. Next she took issue witb Grape thinking that Tom was reaction testing him at the time of the message, her reason being that someone telling you that KJ is scum and seeing it as a test is a sign of a guilty mind, which I diasagree with personally.
Final thing she said was that she was how shocked she is that Grape done so little but makes sense if he is certain KJ is scum then said she hopes no one pressures him too fast to see how he reacts.
I also just noticed in her read list she posted in our chat has ZDS in the middle and she saw Grape Tubba and Zion as worse. Also YWF and Vaimes on the same level so her leap to attacking ZDS so much and not Zion or Tubba is a bit weird tbh. She also never really build on why she sees Zion as scum apart from as scum he is creative when he is replying to peoples posts and changing their intent. Said nothing on Tubba as well
I'm actually fine with his response since it matches with what he said at night and also I think is something a town could do and have seen done in the past.
On his gamestate thing complaining he gave decent enough reasons for me, also yesterday as scum he could easily of just jumped on either and got no blame it, other side is also true that scum would sit back but overall the lack of commitment is a worst move. His attack of flarg I see as town as shpon in last post
Why do you wolfread him then.
Not sure how you know KCC read grew so much over night, like I said multiple times he came off as more town to me overnight who was the only other person there. KCC reasons seem to be not liking his Flarg case which was partly mine as well, but like I said no one blames me at all only him is weird.
if this is true I wish you shot Zion instead since you clearly scum read him more based off yesterday, That is the play as vig that way we get the most info and know people stances for sure, now we are stuck with people stuck on Zion again today which could be true or could be another mislynch. This being true will also confirm Sloth for sure.
Anyway moving on ZDS stance is mostly mine so saying he is using it as a excuse is a bit harsh, I understand his focus since it was the main thing we talked about and makes sense that is his main view. That being said I have no real idea his views on others since he said most are null which bothered me but I think he was still behind in the game, he also said finding scum intent is hard since he came back from retirement . His last post in our chat was he wanted to prod others today which I have not seen much of.
Rhand also calls KJ null noticed that just now when relooking at him. He also had KCC as his top town with you and YWF. His read list bothers me because it has 4 nulls wguch are Wisp, Vaimes, Tubba and Kj that is far too many in my view for that point on day 1.
I'm fine with a Rhand lynch today also he has a lot of the flaws Flarg does and his defense of Flarge bothers me also
Depends on the Flarge flip to a degree but I don't like how ZDS is getting attacked by her, but I'm not. It just seems like trying to take adv of someone in a bad spot. So I would lean scum.
Also sorry about last post being messy