Here are the latest changes. I decided to include Titania because I always thought she was a very interesting card and this deck can leverage both of her abilities. She's also best buds with Omnath.
Ruric Thar is likewise one of those very interesting cards, that may have a nice home in here. Even though the number of non-creatures is fairly high for a deck that plays him, I think that most other decks will have a much harder time to operate underneath him. This deck also has Basilisk Collar which is not too hard to find in this deck and of course mitigates the lifeloss from Ruric.
What happens if you create a copy of Academy Rector via Flameshadow Conjuring and then sacrifice it. Do you get to exile it and search for an enchantment or is the token exiled as a state based effect before you get to resolve the die trigger?
I used Myojin of Life's Web in my Animar list and I liked it a lot. It's just a very nice ensurance policy against wraths. Cast it for GGG when Animar is out, beat down with an indestructible 8/8 and if someone wipes the board just put your hand into play eot and continue.
In an all out combo list however it probably isn't worth it though, but if you like to win in the red zone I very much recommend it
I don't know if I missed something, but I'm a bit surprised that this hasn't come up here yet.
I know that it has been a point of debate here how to mulligan correctly in Commander, because many argued that when using the partial paris the first one shouldn't be free, however I think it was common practice in many communities (including mine).
Now the partial paris has been replaced by the Vancouver mulligan, you probably have recognized that it makes a huge difference in getting the right mix of lands, spells and ramp if you essentially have the possibility to take a look at the top fourteen cards for free or just two hands of random seven cards.
While I think it's good for the format, since it makes combo decks and excessive ramp decks less consistent, I started to include one extra land and one extra ramp spell in most of my decks because with the previous composition I had trouble to consistently finding decent starting hands.
Did you notice a any difference in the consistency of your decks due to the rules change and if yes, how did you respond to it?
(Also note that this thread is not about whether the rules changes was a good decision of the RC, but merely how it reflects in decklists.)
I think deck thinning is not quite as important in a 100 card format, especially considering that in a top-decking situation this deck fares rather well because I can simply create tokens with my commander until he dies and recast him.
And again: I'm not saying Khalni Heart Expedition is the optimal choice, but for me having a more interesting card is worth it not playing the best option because in my estimation the difference in power is small enough.
I definitely agree here but it's probably not like you really need that land in most situations and I feel like the gap is small enough to run a more "interesting" card for variances sake.
Also, even in grindy late game situations Kahlni Heart Expedition can be good in a different way by slowly getting it active and then having it around to be cracked for landfall triggers if you need it and in the early game there are situations where it can be more powerful than the old "1G: get a basic".
Still Rampant Growth and friends are really more reliable and for consistency's sake it's probably better to run these but I have played commander for a long enough time now that I think it's worth it to pass on a bit of consistency to be able to play some other cards.
Thanks for asking. I guess it's kind of a weirdbchoice. After years of running pretty much those spells you mention above, it's just nice to play with something else for a change.
If I'd were to replace it with something more "reliable", it would probably be Nature's Lore since I can always cast Marath on t3 and so it's most efficient to be able to cast your ramp before he comes down (especially because once he hits the BF it's often difficult to use your turn for ramp).
However Khalni Heart Expedition is really a bit underrated imo. It's powerful ramp for a rather low mana cost and while it doesn't do anything in a topdeck situation it's not like a rampant growth doeas much more
I updated the decklist it's gotten a bit more creature heavy, all tough most changes happend in the land base. Overall I'm very happy with the performance of the deck. It has a very consistent curve and is very versatile in the roles it can play. It can play grindy midrange-control but there's also the potential to kill everyone in one or two turns from almost nowhere.
I know there's currently seems to be a deluge of Marath threads in this forums but I still would appreciate feedback on my list very much!
Two other suggestions that I think would be really strong are Wake the Dead and Rally the Ancestors. Play them, bring back your GY, retrigger ETB abilities, trade off an opposing attack the sac everything remaining for life.
Especially Wake the Dead is incredibly powerful but very little played and I think it would fit this deck like a glove.
Why not Karlov of the Ghost Council?
He probably becomes huge in a deck like this for a very low mana investment. His ability might be a bit redundant, on the other hand the conditions for activating at are different enough that it will work in situations where Ayli isn't online.
Other than that, I think you really have an awesome list. I might want to build my own now
It's actually an all permanent ramp base
While there are a few dorks in here, there is also more "permanent" ramp like Sakura-Tribe Elder, Wood Elves, Kahlni Heart Expedition and Solemn Simulacrum. Boardwipes are of coarse something I kept in mind when building this deck and it is actually rather resilient to them since there is rarely a situation where I am left with a completely empty board. Something indestructible or some planeswalker or enchantment usually sticks around.
What is really important is hitting landdrops. If you can manage that, your mana scales up as the game progresses and you are always able to repopulate the board by casting your commander. To that purpose I also included another land in the latest changes (also in response to the change to the mulligan rule). Speaking of which: Here is the latest batch:
- Birds of Paradise
- Trygon Predator
- Prophet of Kruphix
- Homura, Human Ascendant
- Deadeye Navigator
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Exploration
- Domri Rade
- Temple of Mystery
+ Coiling Oracle: Other than mana dorks there are actually very few two-mana ramp options on permanents. This thing optimally ramps and at worst it's a cantrip.
+ Kiora's Follower: More acceleration. And potentially very good with bouncelands, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Bloom Tender and co and Beguiler of Wills.
+ Omnath, Locus of Mana: I think this could be solid in the early game, storing some mana to get Wandere out earlier and he can get huge later. Also nice synergy with Xenagos, the Reveler
+ Conduit of Ruin: I hesitated to run it at first but with the release of World Breaker, there is definitely a reason. It can also get Kozilek, Butcher of Truth which not only nets cards but is also a very pressuring clock, especially with haste.
+ Pathbreaker Ibex: This is not only fun but also very powerful. The only thing it's missing is haste but that's absolutely no problem in this deck. If it doesn't get removed pre-combat it will probably kill at least one opponent.
+ World Breaker: This is awesome. It is a huge body, it exiles and, if needed you can recur it.
+ Mana Vault: card]: Playing this deck really is a race to casting Wanderer and so cutting three turns off theat clock is really need.
+ Blighted Woodland: Ramp on a land is great, especially if it doesn't ETB tapped.
+ Spinerock Knoll: I wanted another land and this is not only a land but also gas. Activating it should not be a problem and in a pinch you can let others do the dirty work
I think scooping is an option you have in a multiplayer game and I even find it somewhat flavorful to quit in situations described in the OP. I would imagine standing before my massive horde of wolves, excited about my immanent victory, but, alas, the red mage casts his massive mind control spell, threatening to turn my pack against me. I will not die by my own brethren. Only one thing left: I rip my dagger from it's sheath and plunge it into my own heart, knowing that it doesn't change the outcome for myself but this way, at least, I might be avenged...
I mean since so many people seem to have a passionate hatred against this kind of thing it should probably not be done (the top priority in a game of Commander should be that everyone has a good time, otherwise what's the point?), but on the other hand it is something that can be expected and be played around accordingly. In the scenario described by the OP it's also not like it comes without a price for him, because now he has to wait while the other three duke it out before the next game starts.
Also "5RRR: The player with the most powerful board loses the game."; it's not like he didn't get anything out of that play.
I also think that Sunforger is a very solid mid-lategame value card that doesn't really need a lot of support. Targets that I find awesome with it but have not yet been mentioned are:
Ruric Thar is likewise one of those very interesting cards, that may have a nice home in here. Even though the number of non-creatures is fairly high for a deck that plays him, I think that most other decks will have a much harder time to operate underneath him. This deck also has Basilisk Collar which is not too hard to find in this deck and of course mitigates the lifeloss from Ruric.
-Spearbreaker Behemoth
-Trostani, Voice of Selesnya
-Orim's Thunder
-Sunpetal Grove
+Titania, Protector of Argoth
+Scavenging Ooze
+Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
+Wooded Foothills
Those are all creature options that have served me really well to keep my hand stacked.
In an all out combo list however it probably isn't worth it though, but if you like to win in the red zone I very much recommend it
I know that it has been a point of debate here how to mulligan correctly in Commander, because many argued that when using the partial paris the first one shouldn't be free, however I think it was common practice in many communities (including mine).
Now the partial paris has been replaced by the Vancouver mulligan, you probably have recognized that it makes a huge difference in getting the right mix of lands, spells and ramp if you essentially have the possibility to take a look at the top fourteen cards for free or just two hands of random seven cards.
While I think it's good for the format, since it makes combo decks and excessive ramp decks less consistent, I started to include one extra land and one extra ramp spell in most of my decks because with the previous composition I had trouble to consistently finding decent starting hands.
Did you notice a any difference in the consistency of your decks due to the rules change and if yes, how did you respond to it?
(Also note that this thread is not about whether the rules changes was a good decision of the RC, but merely how it reflects in decklists.)
And again: I'm not saying Khalni Heart Expedition is the optimal choice, but for me having a more interesting card is worth it not playing the best option because in my estimation the difference in power is small enough.
Also, even in grindy late game situations Kahlni Heart Expedition can be good in a different way by slowly getting it active and then having it around to be cracked for landfall triggers if you need it and in the early game there are situations where it can be more powerful than the old "1G: get a basic".
Still Rampant Growth and friends are really more reliable and for consistency's sake it's probably better to run these but I have played commander for a long enough time now that I think it's worth it to pass on a bit of consistency to be able to play some other cards.
If I'd were to replace it with something more "reliable", it would probably be Nature's Lore since I can always cast Marath on t3 and so it's most efficient to be able to cast your ramp before he comes down (especially because once he hits the BF it's often difficult to use your turn for ramp).
However Khalni Heart Expedition is really a bit underrated imo. It's powerful ramp for a rather low mana cost and while it doesn't do anything in a topdeck situation it's not like a rampant growth doeas much more
I know there's currently seems to be a deluge of Marath threads in this forums but I still would appreciate feedback on my list very much!
Especially Wake the Dead is incredibly powerful but very little played and I think it would fit this deck like a glove.
He probably becomes huge in a deck like this for a very low mana investment. His ability might be a bit redundant, on the other hand the conditions for activating at are different enough that it will work in situations where Ayli isn't online.
Other than that, I think you really have an awesome list. I might want to build my own now
EDIT: Also: What about Skullclamp?
While there are a few dorks in here, there is also more "permanent" ramp like Sakura-Tribe Elder, Wood Elves, Kahlni Heart Expedition and Solemn Simulacrum. Boardwipes are of coarse something I kept in mind when building this deck and it is actually rather resilient to them since there is rarely a situation where I am left with a completely empty board. Something indestructible or some planeswalker or enchantment usually sticks around.
What is really important is hitting landdrops. If you can manage that, your mana scales up as the game progresses and you are always able to repopulate the board by casting your commander. To that purpose I also included another land in the latest changes (also in response to the change to the mulligan rule). Speaking of which: Here is the latest batch:
- Birds of Paradise
- Trygon Predator
- Prophet of Kruphix
- Homura, Human Ascendant
- Deadeye Navigator
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Exploration
- Domri Rade
- Temple of Mystery
+ Coiling Oracle: Other than mana dorks there are actually very few two-mana ramp options on permanents. This thing optimally ramps and at worst it's a cantrip.
+ Kiora's Follower: More acceleration. And potentially very good with bouncelands, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Bloom Tender and co and Beguiler of Wills.
+ Omnath, Locus of Mana: I think this could be solid in the early game, storing some mana to get Wandere out earlier and he can get huge later. Also nice synergy with Xenagos, the Reveler
+ Conduit of Ruin: I hesitated to run it at first but with the release of World Breaker, there is definitely a reason. It can also get Kozilek, Butcher of Truth which not only nets cards but is also a very pressuring clock, especially with haste.
+ Pathbreaker Ibex: This is not only fun but also very powerful. The only thing it's missing is haste but that's absolutely no problem in this deck. If it doesn't get removed pre-combat it will probably kill at least one opponent.
+ World Breaker: This is awesome. It is a huge body, it exiles and, if needed you can recur it.
+ Mana Vault: card]: Playing this deck really is a race to casting Wanderer and so cutting three turns off theat clock is really need.
+ Blighted Woodland: Ramp on a land is great, especially if it doesn't ETB tapped.
+ Spinerock Knoll: I wanted another land and this is not only a land but also gas. Activating it should not be a problem and in a pinch you can let others do the dirty work
As always: Feedback is very much welcome!
I mean since so many people seem to have a passionate hatred against this kind of thing it should probably not be done (the top priority in a game of Commander should be that everyone has a good time, otherwise what's the point?), but on the other hand it is something that can be expected and be played around accordingly. In the scenario described by the OP it's also not like it comes without a price for him, because now he has to wait while the other three duke it out before the next game starts.
Also "5RRR: The player with the most powerful board loses the game."; it's not like he didn't get anything out of that play.