After I a bit of a break from this deck, I did a major overhaul. I lowered the curve quite a bit and added a little more acceleration. I also implemented a good amount of recursion to make it more resilient in the lategame. I haven't tested the changes a lot, but from what I've seen so far it is much more streamlined and harder to disrupt. Overall I'm fairly happy about how the changes worked out, however I wouldn't mind to find a cut so I can reinclude Angel of Serenity.
Thanks for all the responses. I'm going to try her out in my Karametra deck which wants to cast powerful creatures and protect it by various means. Considering the responses here she might fit very well in that deck.
Did you notice thatAdarkar Valkyrie can actually return any creature, not only your own? She also has a decently sized body and two other relevant keywords.
In my meta people play powerful but not broken decks and most of them make sure to play a reasonable amount of interaction so games tend get at least a little grindy and I think in those situations Adakar Valkyrie could be really strong, especially if you can find a way to give her haste or protect her.
Who has experience with this card? Would you recommend it and for which decks?
Is it another overrated timmy card or can she pull her weight and contribute to a deck?
Explanations for the more sketchy looking exclusions can be found in the "Currently testing" section of the OP, so be sure to check those out.
Saffi and Yeva did not work out as I would have liked them to. Saffi sat around doing nothing more often than not and while Yeva was sweet at times I often wished her to be something else.
Kamahl was also underperforming for me. While the ceiling on him is pretty high, he often sits around as a 4/3 for 4GG.
I obviously don't have any experience with the deck, but what about bow of nylea to return combo pieces to the library and basically turn Yisan into recursion? I can see this to be very useful on a multiplayer table where even a fast combo deck will often need longer to win, but maybe it's too clunky...
How well does Shard Phoenix work? I guess he dream is to equip Basilisk Collar to it and have an instant speed wrath just sitting around, but how reliable is it to get that online and how useful is it outside of that scenario?
Also, I know you don't want to necessarily go in that direction, but I would argue that because of it's low cmc and amazing synergy with Marath Hardened Scales is too good not to play in a deck with him at the helm.
Also Iroas, God of Victory is surprisingly good in a deck like deck and can make cards like Shard Phoenix one sided.
I'm not sure is Saffi is right for this deck, but I found I didn't like Beastmaster's Ascension because I almost never manage to get it online the turn I cast it.
I finally managed to get a copy of Elspeth, Sun's Champion and she feels much more flexible and powerful than Martial Coup.
I also added a thorough card by card walkthrough as well as an explanation why some cards are not in this deck.
The arguments you bring are exactly why I shied away from mana dorks in Commander for a long time. However I discovered that the t1 bird produces such a tempo advantage, that it doesn't matter too much if it gets wiped away a few turns later because by then,there's a good chance that you have turned this tempo advantage into more lands and cards. The difference to Dryad Arbor is that the birds don't cost you a landdrop (except, of course, if you get the arbor form GSZ) and thus cost less tempo if they get removed. The fact that they can produce all colors also makes them much better.
I also almost never pump counters on creatures, but I found it worth it to put them on small flyers. If they get removed by a Path or Terminate, you gotta be psyched that they had to use it on a bird!
But in the end it comes down to personal preference and if you feel that Birds of Paradise are not worth it, I can certainly understand that.
Have you already tested this deck? It looks like you have very little ramp and also rather few land for a relatively high curve.
I found 1-2 cmc ramp to be most effective with Marath because at 3 you can already cast him. I would suggest Birds of Paradise, Sol Ring, Sakura-Tribe Elder and Farseek at the least. Other good ramp options would be Nature's Lore, Search for Tomorrow and Wood Elves.
For cuts I would suggest some high cmc cards that are a bit clunky and/or do nothing on their own like Rith, the Awakener, Triskelion, Stalking Vengeance, Warstorm Surge and Vicious Shadows. Heartstone also seems a bit awkward since it only affects Marath and only if you want to remove at least two counters at once, which is something (I at least) very rarely do.
I would also raise the land count to 37. This deck typically has always something to do with its mana, but if you draw to little it can be very painful.
I know it is annoying to cut fun and interesting cards for ramp, but is the crux of the format; the deck with the most mana usually has the advantage.
I agree. Birds of Paradise are very strong in the opening hand but being bad topdecks later in the game is the reason why many green decks don't run them. In Marath however they really shine.
With the commander as a threedrop there is always at least one possibility to capitalize on the very early mana boost. Cards like Evolutionary Leap and Skullclamp help that their value doesn't decrease in the mid to lategame and I found flying to be very relevant with a commander that can put counters on creatures. This deck (at least my version) can sometimes be a bit weak to flyers and having a 5/6 BoP strongly discourages all those Angels, Dragons and Demons coming at my face.
I could see Wood Elves or Kodama's Reach being cut for those.
The Wall of Reverence + Cradle of Vitality combo makes it really easy to reload Marath's counters, and they're both easy enough to fetch using Congregation at Dawn and Idyllic Tutor respectively. Then there's Warstorm Surge to combine your token and damage effects into one and True Conviction to grant your creatures lifelink so the damage you deal also heals you. Consider Death's Presence to provide even more counters when your creatures die and Stalking Vengeance to compliment Warstorm Surge. Finally, Mayael's Aria provides an alternate wincon that builds nicely on the deck's themes.
Hi, thanks for taking the time to look through my deck and give feedback. I actually considered most of the cards you listed. The problem with most of them however is that they cost a lost of mana and very little on their own. Warstorm Surge suffers from the same issue as Trostani, which is that creatures that enter the battlefield are actually quite small most of the time. Stalking Vengeance probably deals less damage in a wipe than Omnath, Locus of Rage does, because once again I probably have a bunch of 1/1 elementals around. True Conviction is definitely on my radar if I decide to add more lifegain (the great thing about True Conviction is that it can be great defensively but can also close out the game really fast). Mayael's Aria is definitely an interesting card I could imagine running if I can pick one up, but not because it's super powerful, but because it seems fun and flavorful.
Doubling Season should be in here. Never run out of counters on Marath again. Earthcraft is pretty strong too. I understand if there are budget concerns though.
Yep, I know both of these cards would be definitely amazing in this deck, but I don't own them and while I don't necessarily see myself as a budget player, I don't currently want to pay the price for those cards. Also by not running those no brainers I get to try out other interesting stuff while the deck still performs very well.
The latest thing I'm trying is Yeva, Nature's Herald. What I like about this deck is that it has a lot of instant speed interaction for a non-blue deck and this pushes that even further. Let's see how it works out.
I cut Requiem Angel for it, as it always was a bit meh, when I played her and for 6cmc a card should be amazing to justify it.
That is a good question: I also put Trostani in because I had a copy and he seems to fit, right? But there were a few issues with the card:
The all colored mana cost makes him awkward to cast sometimes and it always feels, like my mana is better used in another way.
If your build isn't a dedicated token swarm deck, there are not actually that many creatures entering the BF for the life to really matter that much (and if you are a dedicated token build something like Essence Warden is probably better since most creatures entering the BF will have a toughness of 1)
His activated ability is very clunky if you only populate small tokens and I almost never make large token with Marath.
Bottomline: Everytime I drew him, it felt like there was seldom a good moment to deploy him and if he gets on the BF he either has too little impact or is too fragile.
If I want more lifegain (besides Basilisk Collar which is great), I'd run something like True Conviction or Soul of Theros and if I'd want to crank up my token production something like Parallel Lives is where I would go.
I am tempted however to build a deck with him at the helm and run him alongside Mimic Vat and Seance
Requiem Angel has quite the potential since his ability doesn't say "non-token" but "non-spirit" and six mana for a big flyer with a powerful ability is okay.
My question is who has extensively run it in their decks? What kind of decks does it fit best? What are the requirements to make it really awesome?
I currently run it in my Marath deck but don't know if I should keep it because I don't run any infinite sac outlets (like e.g. Ashnod's Altar) and so it's hard to really abuse it.
+ Birds of Paradise
+ Sylvan Safekeeper
+ Saffi Eriksdotter
+ Oracle of Mul-Daya
+ Reveillark
+ Karmic Guide
+ Titania, Protector of Argoth
+ Adarkar Valkyrie
+ Swiftfoot Boots
+ Evolutionary Leap
+ Tragic Arrogance
+ Myriad Landscape
- Heliod, God of the Sun
- Temur Sabertooth
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- Genesis Hydra
- Spearbreaker Behemoth
- Angel of Serenity
- Myojin of Cleansing Fire
- Priveliged Position
- Sterling Grove
- Tooth and Nail
- Wrath of God
- Day of Judgement
Let me know what you think or also how your own Karametra lists evolved in the past months!
In my meta people play powerful but not broken decks and most of them make sure to play a reasonable amount of interaction so games tend get at least a little grindy and I think in those situations Adakar Valkyrie could be really strong, especially if you can find a way to give her haste or protect her.
Who has experience with this card? Would you recommend it and for which decks?
Is it another overrated timmy card or can she pull her weight and contribute to a deck?
-Reclamation Sage
-Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
-Yeva, Nature's Herald
-Saffi Eriksdotter
-Hour of Reckoning
-Starstorm
-Sword of the Animist
-Blighted Woodland
+Qasali Pridemage
+Nature's Lore
+Survival of the Fittest
+Sunblast Angel
+Strip Mine
+Sylvan Safekeeper
+Intrepid Hero
+Shard Phoenix
Explanations for the more sketchy looking exclusions can be found in the "Currently testing" section of the OP, so be sure to check those out.
Saffi and Yeva did not work out as I would have liked them to. Saffi sat around doing nothing more often than not and while Yeva was sweet at times I often wished her to be something else.
Kamahl was also underperforming for me. While the ceiling on him is pretty high, he often sits around as a 4/3 for 4GG.
Cards I currently am also considering for this deck are Gaddock Teeg and Ardarkar Valkyrie.
Let me know what you think and don't hesitate to ask questions!
Also, I know you don't want to necessarily go in that direction, but I would argue that because of it's low cmc and amazing synergy with Marath Hardened Scales is too good not to play in a deck with him at the helm.
Also Iroas, God of Victory is surprisingly good in a deck like deck and can make cards like Shard Phoenix one sided.
-Martial Coup
-Beastmaster's Ascension
+Elspeth, Knight Errant
+Saffi Eriksdotter
I'm not sure is Saffi is right for this deck, but I found I didn't like Beastmaster's Ascension because I almost never manage to get it online the turn I cast it.
I finally managed to get a copy of Elspeth, Sun's Champion and she feels much more flexible and powerful than Martial Coup.
I also added a thorough card by card walkthrough as well as an explanation why some cards are not in this deck.
I also almost never pump counters on creatures, but I found it worth it to put them on small flyers. If they get removed by a Path or Terminate, you gotta be psyched that they had to use it on a bird!
But in the end it comes down to personal preference and if you feel that Birds of Paradise are not worth it, I can certainly understand that.
I found 1-2 cmc ramp to be most effective with Marath because at 3 you can already cast him. I would suggest Birds of Paradise, Sol Ring, Sakura-Tribe Elder and Farseek at the least. Other good ramp options would be Nature's Lore, Search for Tomorrow and Wood Elves.
For cuts I would suggest some high cmc cards that are a bit clunky and/or do nothing on their own like Rith, the Awakener, Triskelion, Stalking Vengeance, Warstorm Surge and Vicious Shadows. Heartstone also seems a bit awkward since it only affects Marath and only if you want to remove at least two counters at once, which is something (I at least) very rarely do.
I would also raise the land count to 37. This deck typically has always something to do with its mana, but if you draw to little it can be very painful.
I know it is annoying to cut fun and interesting cards for ramp, but is the crux of the format; the deck with the most mana usually has the advantage.
With the commander as a threedrop there is always at least one possibility to capitalize on the very early mana boost. Cards like Evolutionary Leap and Skullclamp help that their value doesn't decrease in the mid to lategame and I found flying to be very relevant with a commander that can put counters on creatures. This deck (at least my version) can sometimes be a bit weak to flyers and having a 5/6 BoP strongly discourages all those Angels, Dragons and Demons coming at my face.
I could see Wood Elves or Kodama's Reach being cut for those.
Hi, thanks for taking the time to look through my deck and give feedback. I actually considered most of the cards you listed. The problem with most of them however is that they cost a lost of mana and very little on their own. Warstorm Surge suffers from the same issue as Trostani, which is that creatures that enter the battlefield are actually quite small most of the time. Stalking Vengeance probably deals less damage in a wipe than Omnath, Locus of Rage does, because once again I probably have a bunch of 1/1 elementals around. True Conviction is definitely on my radar if I decide to add more lifegain (the great thing about True Conviction is that it can be great defensively but can also close out the game really fast).
Mayael's Aria is definitely an interesting card I could imagine running if I can pick one up, but not because it's super powerful, but because it seems fun and flavorful.
Yep, I know both of these cards would be definitely amazing in this deck, but I don't own them and while I don't necessarily see myself as a budget player, I don't currently want to pay the price for those cards. Also by not running those no brainers I get to try out other interesting stuff while the deck still performs very well.
The latest thing I'm trying is Yeva, Nature's Herald. What I like about this deck is that it has a lot of instant speed interaction for a non-blue deck and this pushes that even further. Let's see how it works out.
I cut Requiem Angel for it, as it always was a bit meh, when I played her and for 6cmc a card should be amazing to justify it.
If I want more lifegain (besides Basilisk Collar which is great), I'd run something like True Conviction or Soul of Theros and if I'd want to crank up my token production something like Parallel Lives is where I would go.
I am tempted however to build a deck with him at the helm and run him alongside Mimic Vat and Seance
My question is who has extensively run it in their decks? What kind of decks does it fit best? What are the requirements to make it really awesome?
I currently run it in my Marath deck but don't know if I should keep it because I don't run any infinite sac outlets (like e.g. Ashnod's Altar) and so it's hard to really abuse it.