In Standard it's a very efficient threat, but in Modern it's 'just' efficient. It seems like the Faeries could be a good home for it to help with the high land count and beefing up Bitterblossom tokens. Another home could be something like Aristocrats, or any grindy deck with a graveyard/discard theme, and could be enabled by Golgari Thug.
Thanks for the breakdown. It really does seem like something from Dredge should be considered for banning. What are the current front-runners? Prized Amalgam would be my guess, but is there something else that is particularly deserving?
Dredge is at worst a symptom of a larger problem. You have to remember, Dredge was a thing in Legacy for many years (though it did drop off considerably a while ago and never really returned) and while it was often irritating, it was never a problem. And the graveyard hate in Modern isn't any worse than Legacy; I can't think of a single good anti-graveyard card in Legacy that isn't also in Modern.
The problem is that in those days in Legacy, Dredge was the only such "taxing" around where if you didn't pay the tax you'd lose. So yeah, it was annoying to have your matchup usually turn out to be "how many anti-graveyard cards did I put in my sideboard" but your other matchups didn't really come down to that, plus graveyard hate was good against a number of decks. Modern is full of such "taxing" decks, and people were complaining about this well before Dredge became a deck in Modern. And it's going to be that way until we get better general answers like Counterspell and the like.
I do find the printing of Prized Amalgam puzzling, however. Normally such recursion effects require an additional sacrifice, such as Ichorid requiring you to remove a black card from your graveyard. I'm surprised Prized Amalgam didn't have such a requirement on it, like requiring you to remove a Black or Blue card from your graveyard to recur it or a mana cost.
That's a good point. Last I knew Bant Eldrazi was the top dog but it looks like nearly 50% of the day-2 metagame was some form of linear/non-interactive/"taxing" aggro deck, be it Dredge, Burn, Infect, or Affinity. Seems pretty discouraging for anyone hoping to play a more answer-oriented deck. Still, it's only one event, so the sky might not be falling yet...
All right, everyone, I have counted up the Top 32 decks. Here are my counts for the Top 8, Top 16, and Top 32 decks!
Top 8:
Dredge: 2
Affinity
Scapeshift (RG)
Jeskai Flash
Ad Nauseam
Zoo
Bant Spirits
Top 16:
Dredge: 5
Infect: 3
Affinity: 2
Bant Eldrazi
Scapeshift (RG)
Jeskai Flash
Ad Nauseam
Zoo
Bant Spirits
Top 32:
Dredge: 9
Infect: 4
Affinity: 3
Burn: 2
Bant Eldrazi: 2
Scapeshift (RG): 2
Jeskai Flash
Ad Nauseam
Zoo
Bant Spirits
Grixis Delver
Abzan
Jund
Lantern Control
Kiki-Chord Whatever This Is
Thanks for the breakdown. It really does seem like something from Dredge should be considered for banning. What are the current front-runners? Prized Amalgam would be my guess, but is there something else that is particularly deserving?
Glad to see some other people having success with this idea. It seems really solid for any creature-based metagame, and has just an incredible amount of inevitability. I've been tuning this list on MTGO this past week, and I like where it's going. Less of the taxing effects, and more just efficient removal and Ghost Quarters to survive the early game. Spirit Link in particular has been better and better, started out as a 2-of but quickly got bumped all the way up to 4. Not sure if I'll be heading to FNM this week, but if I do I plan on bringing this and I'll let you know how it goes.
Everyone complaining about Jund getting the short end of the stick, but it is the deck best suited to weild Ancient Grudge against our returning overlord Affinity, not to mention all the people brewing with Sword of the Meek.
Happy about Eye.
Okay about Sword.
Sceptical about Visions.
A little sad if SSG doesn't also get hit, as fast mana was/is the biggest problem holding back "fair" decks from being played, but I'll be happy with two out of three for now.
Hopefully this isn't misinformation about the upcoming bans, because if these are truly getting the axe, then I think WotC is starting to understand what they should be doing to turn the format into a fun and interactive one.
edit: Also, if Eldrazi continues to occupy 15-20%+ of the meta even without Eye, I could see Eldrazi Temple also needing a ban. Hopefully this is enough though.
Oh hey, there is a thread for this already. I know I'm late to the party but I've been running madness on MTGO for the past couple weeks because my usual format (Modern) is pretty bad right now. I've been splashing red for Electrickery and Ancient Grudge, but there might be other cards I should be using that I'm just not familiar with; I never played Madness when it was standard, and I'm fairly new to Pauper in general.
I like Transform cards and Autumnal Gloom seems potentially very solid. Wanted to make a Soulflayer deck in modern a while back but there wasn't quite enough pay-off. Here is a rough idea I'm putting together, any ideas would be appreciated. Also, this deck is being built in the assumption that Eldrazi will be much less prevalent, so any apparent weakness to that deck should be mostly disregarded. If that deck still exists post SOI release, then I'll adjust the removal and SB accordingly. And the mana base is still not quite right, so any input on that would help as well.
Liked the idea and revisited it a while back. Decided to transition into a snow deck to take advantage of Skred, which I think is underplayed. Woodland Bellower is also pretty sweet, and is basically a big Bloodbraid Elf, with more bullets to fetch out of the board. Will be testing/tuning more once Eldrazi gets cut down to size and Collected Company decks gain some percentage points in the metagame. But, for now:
New girl Heir of Falkenrath seems potentially quite good; made me want to update/sleeve up Esper Delver. Obviously there could (probably will) be more support for this theme (more Madess cards maybe?) in SOI, but I figured I'd try with what I already have. Something like:...
No idea what the SB would look like anymore, especially seeing as Eldrazi will likely get cut down to size with the release of SOI and the meta will shake up at least a little. Deck seems good though. Not sure, if it's any better than the old take on Esper Delver, or Grixis Delver for the matter, but it's pretty sweet to have two undercosted-flip-3/2-fliers.
Deck looks pretty cool. I like the more aggressive versions, with Disowned Ancestor and the like. Also, why not utilize Glittering Wish to run less (functionally more) Dorans in the main, and other bullets in the sideboard? Something like this:
One of the other problems with the Bloom Titan deck is that the best hate against it is also very polarising in the Modern community: Blood Moon. If there was one card that didn't let people play magic, especially in Modern, it has to be Blood Moon.
Additionally, any amount of real-world results need to taken with a grain of salt because these events are played by real people with limitations such as card selection/price/bias/skill all playing a part. Basically, when multiple professional magic players are touting the power of a particular deck, I think that has the potential to have as much weight as any amount of tournament results.
If Magic was a giant simulation played by computers that all chose decks and lines of play perfectly, the most powerful and most popular decks would match 1:1. This is not the case in the real world, and I think that is lost on people when they claim a deck cannot possible deserve bans because it is only X% of the meta.
A deck's power level is not necessarily proportional to its popularity, and if lots of people that are better at the game than (most of) us are saying a particular deck is very/too powerful, you can only ignore that for so long.
Winning deck: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=108812
That's a good point. Last I knew Bant Eldrazi was the top dog but it looks like nearly 50% of the day-2 metagame was some form of linear/non-interactive/"taxing" aggro deck, be it Dredge, Burn, Infect, or Affinity. Seems pretty discouraging for anyone hoping to play a more answer-oriented deck. Still, it's only one event, so the sky might not be falling yet...
Thanks for the breakdown. It really does seem like something from Dredge should be considered for banning. What are the current front-runners? Prized Amalgam would be my guess, but is there something else that is particularly deserving?
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emeria Angel
30
2 Fertile Ground
2 Genju of the Cedars
4 Journey to Nowhere
4 Kruphix's Insight
2 Life from the Loam
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Spirit Link
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Vessel of Nascency
4 Forest
1 Plains
2 Canopy Vista
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 World Breaker
2 ?
2 Choke
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sphere of Safety
2 Stony Silence
2 Tectonic Edge
Happy about Eye.
Okay about Sword.
Sceptical about Visions.
I guess we'll see...
A little sad if SSG doesn't also get hit, as fast mana was/is the biggest problem holding back "fair" decks from being played, but I'll be happy with two out of three for now.
Hopefully this isn't misinformation about the upcoming bans, because if these are truly getting the axe, then I think WotC is starting to understand what they should be doing to turn the format into a fun and interactive one.
edit: Also, if Eldrazi continues to occupy 15-20%+ of the meta even without Eye, I could see Eldrazi Temple also needing a ban. Hopefully this is enough though.
Here is the list - input is appreciated:
4 Aquamoeba
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
24
3 Careful Study
4 Circular Logic
4 Counterspell
3 Deep Analysis
1 Echoing Truth
2 Essence Scatter
2 Obsessive Search
2 Spell Pierce
3 Vapor Snag
1 Snow-Covered Forest
8 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Swiftwater Cliffs
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Thornwood Falls
2 Spreading Seas
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dispel
3 Electrickery
2 Hydroblast
2 Natural State
2 Pulse of Murasa
4 Chromanticore
2 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
4 Soulflayer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Vampire Nighthawk
9
4 Autumnal Gloom
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Sinister Concoction
14
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Dismember
4 Grisly Salvage
1 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Reflecting Pool
2 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Vivid Grove
4 Vivid Marsh
2 wubrg ?
2 bg ?
2 Spellskite
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Golgari Charm
2 Slaughter Games
Eye of Ugin
Mox Opal
Simian Spirit Guide
Unban:
Ancestral Vision
Bloodbraid Elf
Splinter Twin
Sword of the Meek
I'll also join the group wanting Memory Lapse.
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Phyrexian Ironfoot
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Woodland Bellower
4
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Crystal Ball
19
2 Beast Within
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Into the North
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4 Skred
6 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
4 Highland Weald
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Stomping Ground
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Retreat to Kazandu
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Pyroclasm
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Heir of Falkenrath
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
29
4 Deprive
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Murderous Cut
3 Path to Exile
2 Serum Visions
2 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
2 Thoughtseize
2 Vapor Snag
1 Island
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Watery Grave
No idea what the SB would look like anymore, especially seeing as Eldrazi will likely get cut down to size with the release of SOI and the meta will shake up at least a little. Deck seems good though. Not sure, if it's any better than the old take on Esper Delver, or Grixis Delver for the matter, but it's pretty sweet to have two undercosted-flip-3/2-fliers.
4 Disowned Ancestor
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Spellskite
3 Skinshifter
4 Treefolk Harbinger
2 Yoked Ox
4
4 Assault Formation
13
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Glittering Wish
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Doran, the Siege Tower
14 ?
Additionally, any amount of real-world results need to taken with a grain of salt because these events are played by real people with limitations such as card selection/price/bias/skill all playing a part. Basically, when multiple professional magic players are touting the power of a particular deck, I think that has the potential to have as much weight as any amount of tournament results.
If Magic was a giant simulation played by computers that all chose decks and lines of play perfectly, the most powerful and most popular decks would match 1:1. This is not the case in the real world, and I think that is lost on people when they claim a deck cannot possible deserve bans because it is only X% of the meta.
A deck's power level is not necessarily proportional to its popularity, and if lots of people that are better at the game than (most of) us are saying a particular deck is very/too powerful, you can only ignore that for so long.