MTG Salvation

Quote from cyberium_neo »

Quote from JuiceBOX »

I know this was yesterday, but I absolutely love this card! What are some ideas people have?

It'd be nice to do some Thantis style here i.e. token generation, which forces your opponents to fight with a bigger army and you dealing more damage as well. I heart some equipment such as Whispersilk Cloak, attack right after Sylvan Offering. With tokens you could also do Sandsower to tap potential blockers, have some token generators likes Nahiri and Elspeth (Elspeth #1 also gives out flying). You only need one hit to goad all creatures, so you only need one unblockable creature (per opponent) to entice a total war.

Needless to say, Grenzo, Havoc Raiser is perfect here.

My initial thought was to go low to the ground and as evasive as these colors can do. Basically do a Naya deck that behaves a bit like Edric, Tetsuko or Sygg River Cutthroat because focusing on little creatures is out of the ordinary for Naya.

On my end I'm actually liking

Kadena, Slinking Sorceror
Pramikon, Sky Rampart (I'm thinking of going Jeskai Pillowfort with it. At long last I think I've got a really thematic general for it if I can just figure out exactly what I want the build to look like)
Chainer, Nightmare Adept (I've never had a Rakdos deck before and if I can figure out a way to make him play differently enough for Meren I might go with him).

Not big on going wall tribal here but I feel kind of bad I forgot about good old Splinter Twin. I'll put that in the maybe pile along with Approach of the Second Sun. That said, I was leaning in the token generator direction using pillowfort to buy time to build up an army and win with tokens or just Purphoros triggers.

The new C19 may have given me a general at long last to lead a Jeskai Pillowfort deck in the form of Pramikon, Sky Rampart. I was thinking about using Kykar, Wind's Fury but now that we have this option I think it's a better choice. I'm wondering what kinds of things folks might suggest as wincons for a deck in this vein.

Honestly, I'm thinking about getting both the Morph and Madness decks (something I did not think I'd be saying when these were released), stripping the Madness deck for parts as I've NEVER had a rakdos deck and then using the morph deck either entirely precon as is or slightly upgraded to be my low power tables deck.

Well, we've seen all 4 decks now and I think I can safely say no, these are NOT at all a bust. Are there things I'd like to see improved with these? Assuredly as well as a few things I don't understand. Big one is the lack of Smoldering Marsh in the Madness deck when all the others got a BFZ land. But I think they've addressed pretty much every criticism I saw from last year.

1. The decks didn't feel like the themes promised.
That's definitely not the case this time. The decks all feel like they leaned heavily into their themes. Each of the decks has about 20+ cards actually devoted to the theme. And not tangentially like last year's but directly referencing or interacting with what the average player thinks of when they think of the theme. The Morph deck especially looks alot like what you'd expect to see in a Morph deck. In fact, minus some of the much older cards I see a lot of overlap between the morph decks for Animar on EDHrec and the Morph Precon.

2. Low value.
There were more reprints in these than last years and the reprints actually look interesting. In multiple cases there are things here I don't have in my collection and I've got a pretty nice one at this point. People need to examine the reprints that were in the original decks at the time the decks were released, not now after EDH has exploded the way it has. As another post noted, stuff like Aura Shards were 2ish dollar cards at that time. Again, as the Command Zone noted you're generally getting 70+ bucks just in reprints. Nevermind that K'rrick, Son of Yawgmoth is a 30 dollar card right now by itself. Volrath, Shapestealer is 15, Elsha of the Infinite is 20. Now, those will inevitably drop when this gets out there but these precons also always rise back up in price after about a year.

3. Power of the Decks.
Precons have never been especially powerful. We won't know how these do until we get the chance to play with them but some of the new cards alone look powerful and interesting and I think, not only will these be fun to play against each other, but it might be more feasible to sneak wins in and have game at medium power level tables than people think. Nevermind that as enfranchised players, we should be doing a better job of scaling our decks to the power level to allow a newer player to have a good time anyway. I've seen lots of spurious claims here about new players getting steamrolled against actually tuned decks but this seems to me to be an example of experienced players needing to learn to be better stewards of the game than a problem with the decks Wizards puts out.

4. Interesting commanders to build around and cards for old characters.
We got Volrath, Gerard, Marisi, Chainer, Tangarth, a reference to Yawgmoth and Greven. In addition to a new Morph commander, a new Populate/token Commander, a legendary wall commander, a monk that screams "break me," and has fantastic art, an absurd madness enabler.

Now, I'm still not sure this is a product for me personally, but it's also the first year in a long time I'm not sure I want just one of these which is what I usually do (just buy one) and have no idea if I'll actually get the decks or just buy singles. The fact it's making someone like me who was probably going to just ignore this when he heard the themes rethink that stance says something positive about the product to me at least.

I'm gonna get booed and naysayed but I stand by the fact that while this could certainly be better, I do not think it is, in any way, shape or form, a bust.

I'm both laughing and annoyed that the Naya deck (a color combo I don't really like that much) is probably the one I'm most impressed with so far.

Quote from leslak »

Quote from Arwen_Spence »

I really don't know who should lead my new Jeskai Pillowfort deck. Her or the new Pramikon sky rampart. What are you folks' thoughts.

For multiplayer the wall is better imo.
For 1v1 Eisha or Sevinne are better. Eisha is more versatile but more fragile, she probably could be fun to storm off while Sevinne could be more of a tempo commander.

Thanks for that. I've been leaning in that direction as it really hammers home the theme for pillowfort but it does exacerbate the problem of those decks sometimes struggling to close a game.

I can see the hillarity of a naya evasion/pillowfort deck that plays a lot like Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Sygg, River cutthroat or Edric, Spymaster of Trest. There aren't as many straight unblockable dudes as blue but this seems like a general ripe for playing against type and I love it. Also seems like it'd be able to close out games better than the blue commanders I mentioned.

I really don't know who should lead my new Jeskai Pillowfort deck. Her or the new Pramikon sky rampart. What are you folks' thoughts.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.

^ That part.

Quote from SimicNuggets »

Hope they keep making the rest of the old weatherlight crew.

Sisay, Weatherlight Captain
Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero

Looking at you next, Hanna.

New Hanna would be cool, not gonna lie.

Hmmmmm, I'm glad I held off on buying Kykar, Wind's Fury this deck gave me 2 potential Jeskai pillowfort generals and I don't know who I'll want to use to lead that build.

Quote from SonofaBith75 »

Quote from Arwen_Spence »

Seriously, there are times I don't know what would happen if Magic players were given nothing to whine about. Magic is releasing ludicrous amount of products in a year. Don't like these? Wait a few months and see what the Brawl decks look like and if there's anything you want out of those. At this point, when there's a product I don't really want I'm almost grateful because it means it's one less thing I have to worry about where my Magic budget is concerned.


The level of entitlement from some folks is outrageous.

Gavin Verhey HIMSELF admitted last years decks were underwhelming in terms of reprints, so if a Wizards employee ADMITS a mediocre product, why can’t you? You confuse “entitlement” with REASONABLE expectations to not receive yet another mediocre product. Gavin Verhey himself also acknowledged the players complaints were heard and indicated that would be remedied this year, and so far, we’ve not seen ANY evidence of this through the first two decks, although there’s still quite a bit to reveal. I for one don’t like it when someone tells me one thing and does another, especially when it comes to addressing concerns.

There are plenty of midprice staples that could use more printings. NO ONE IS ASKING FOR, OR EXPECTING $25 or $30 singles. There are however tons of staples in the $7-$12 range that people would love to see.

Path to Exile
Lightning Greaves
Mystical Tutor
Skullclamp
Solemn Simulacrum
Phyrexian Arena
Chromatic Lantern
Shattering Spree
Propaganda
Aura Shards
Though Vessel
Expedition Map
Sword of the Animist
Burgeoning
Black Market
parallel Lives
Song of the Dryads
Darksteel Plate
Petrified Field in a modern template for the first time.
All the Battlebond dual lands.
The Medallion cycle.

And in the $20ish range:
Cyclonic Rift
Mirari’s Wake
Strip Mine in a modern template for the first time (excluding FTV).
Deserted Temple in a modern template for the first time.
Rhystic Study
Anointed Procession
Bribery in a black border new template for the first time, excluding a foil.
Worldly Tutor in a modern template for the first time.

Now, not all these cards may fit within the themes we’re getting, but a great many of them are very neutral in their applications. And, maybe we’ll still see some of these, particularly Anointed Procession and Parallel Lives when we get to that deck.

You say people are entitled. I say, have higher standards and stop settling.

I really wish I had your level of energy to get worked up over this. I have real problems to deal with. If I'm not interested in a product I don't buy it. Nobody's putting a gun to my head. As to this point about people not asking for super expensive reprints I've seen people on this very forum demanding things like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Oracle of Mul Daya, shock and fetchlands etc. All of which disprove that point.

Regardless, the OP asked if this was a bust after a single deck got spoiled and I noted we don't have enough information for that determination. Lo and behold, more interesting stuff is already coming down the pipeline.

And for me, this definitely isn't a bust, just doesn't seem aimed at me.

Quote from schindar »

Quote from Arwen_Spence »

Seriously, there are times I don't know what would happen if Magic players were given nothing to whine about. Magic is releasing ludicrous amount of products in a year. Don't like these? Wait a few months and see what the Brawl decks look like and if there's anything you want out of those. At this point, when there's a product I don't really want I'm almost grateful because it means it's one less thing I have to worry about where my Magic budget is concerned.


The level of entitlement from some folks is outrageous.

Seriously, I don't know what would happen if there weren't people looking to whine about other people whining.

The level of entitlement from some folks is outrageous.

It's cute you think you've made a point.

Quote from illakunsaa »

Quote from The Lord of Tresserhorn »

Well, Teferi is unlikely as it is a Planeswalker that can be your Commander, which is exceptional and tied to a theme. Baby Jace is even more unlikely as it is a flip card and it's very rare to just print one of those (Nicol Bolas, the Ravager being the one counterexample I can think of).

They printed daretti in breya.

But he wasnt' a flip. Apparently it's quite hard to do one off flippers in supplemental product like this and Teferi, other than untapping things doesn't have much directly to go along with this deck. And they probably wanted to avoid people snapping up the deck for a 30 dollar card.