I'm a bit hyped for Lotus Field in my Cascade list, a way to sac lands beside Great Garry while letting me cast all my 3 cost spells. What do you guys think?
Not for this list, IMO.
I'd rather use non-land mana, and nuke every single land so they cant have 1 mana to bounce back. The difference between letting 1 land stay and 2 is great, IMO. Its the difference between them playing a second land and them playing their first land. Gives them a lot more room to bounce back.
Say I have drift in play. I cast Tidehollow Sculler and it resolves. It enters, trigger on stack; can I cycle a card, hit my Sculler with astral; and permanently delete this card (exile without it being linked to Sculler)?
Or does this not work?
If that does work I would basically get 2 cards for one out of my Sculler.
Also, would Fiend Hunter work the same way if I flicker it with its trigger on the stack?
Another question I had with Drift is, if a creature returns at the beginning of the next end step; can I use drift on that creature again for it to come back the NEXT turn at the beginning of the NEXT turn's end step? Just making sure.
does loyal sentry work like i think it does with astral drift and blink effects? cause it triggers on block so im pretty sure if drifted before damage but after blocks it should kill their creature and come back. If im right it could be a strong inclusion.
Pretty sure that works. Read the rules text of Loyal Sentry.
BTW guys theres a few more cool interactions:
Fiend Hunter / Tidehollow Sculler
With both of these cards, you can play them; ETB ability on the stack, flicker; and permanently delete something to exile. This is basically because the cards arent linked anymore or dont 'remember'. Not only that, when they come back in; you can either do it again, OR just have the 'normal version' of the card (where if it dies something comes back).
I feel like this deck wants some variety of Birds of Paradise and Noble Heirarch. Just for early speed.
Ramp you into a T2 slide, then maybe you can stabilize from there.
The problem is that running multiple ETB tapped lands strongly conflicts with that approach.
It can cause issues even running *one* etb tapped land much less 4+.
Generally when constructing a modern deck you should think of ETB tapped lands as 1-drops from a curve perspective, since they essentially "Cost 1." Playing 8 dorks and 8 cycling lands is a crapload of 1-drops, and makes for a lot of air in your deck.
I dont see how ETB would prevent us from wanting 1 drops. We would just land it T2, and ramp T3. 1 Mana ramp just seems too good to pass up. Honestly, if anything it seems like we need this MORE because of our come into play tapped situation. We cant be slow and clunky all game or we'll get wrecked by anything remotely fast. Def wouldnt be thinking of the 1 drops as 'air' when they are helping take some weight off the manabase. We cant expect to come into play tapped land every turn and be behind all game every game and do well can we?
Also 8 Cycling lands only? My list has a LOT more than that. I would use 4 of every single cycle land in your decks colors, then just add more lands that come in untapped on top of that. Im currently at 29 lands.
Not to sound rude, but how much actual play testing have you been doing? Any amount of playtesting would reveal that one drops indeed, feel extremely out of place while trying to play them t1. And why would you ever play it on T2 when you have wall of blossoms/omens or nest invader? And on top of that, how terrible is it to top deck a 1 drop do nothing in turns 5+ when all you want to see is either (depending on your decklist) Removal/disruption, Some sort of value creature, or a cycler.
I still feel like you are thinking about the 1 drops wrong. They arent that bad to draw late game at all TBH. You can just fill out your mana with them and give you more breathing room. Like if you 'need' 2 mana to leave up for cycling things, and you have 1 'extra' that you wouldnt use, perfect chance to be less cramped in terms of mana, next turn. Also not irrelevant is the flying on birds if you need to block a flyer, then tap the bird and use that mana to 1 mana cycle and drift your bird away.
Im still testing but I dont think I'll be cutting my 5 minimum 1 drop accel creatures any time soon. I also use a LOT of lands, too; and feel they are almost necessary. Im currently at 30 lands, 28 cycling effects, and 8 ETB creatures.
I feel like this deck wants some variety of Birds of Paradise and Noble Heirarch. Just for early speed.
Ramp you into a T2 slide, then maybe you can stabilize from there.
The problem is that running multiple ETB tapped lands strongly conflicts with that approach.
It can cause issues even running *one* etb tapped land much less 4+.
Generally when constructing a modern deck you should think of ETB tapped lands as 1-drops from a curve perspective, since they essentially "Cost 1." Playing 8 dorks and 8 cycling lands is a crapload of 1-drops, and makes for a lot of air in your deck.
I dont see how ETB would prevent us from wanting 1 drops. We would just land it T2, and ramp T3. 1 Mana ramp just seems too good to pass up. Honestly, if anything it seems like we need this MORE because of our come into play tapped situation. We cant be slow and clunky all game or we'll get wrecked by anything remotely fast. Def wouldnt be thinking of the 1 drops as 'air' when they are helping take some weight off the manabase. We cant expect to come into play tapped land every turn and be behind all game every game and do well can we?
Also 8 Cycling lands only? My list has a LOT more than that. I would use 4 of every single cycle land in your decks colors, then just add more lands that come in untapped on top of that. Im currently at 29 lands.
I think they are both just too slow by like a mile. You can only transmute as a sorcery which really sucks, IMO.
As for things to add instead, definitely add Monastery Siege. Its perfect for after-balance situations, and doesnt fill up your hand necessarily. I personally would rather blast everything restore balance can, and hopefully they have 0 lands 0 creatures and maybe 1 or 2 but hopefully 0 cards in their hand as well. Then try to win as fast as possible from there.
Idk when I would want to have so many cards in my hand, especially if I draw ones I cant ditch easily.
I have not tried the electrodominance route, however. So maybe that route is better with all the card draw and extra opportunities to cast a 'free' vision.
Here is what I was messing around with for an idea of what Im talking about:
I actually dont like tolaria west or ancestral vision. Both are honestly just clunky, even if it sounds weird to say. I want things that are helping me hit my restore balance super fast, or things that stick around after I land one, or things that win immediately afterwards. Even with As Foretold, vision always felt clunky for me.
Also dont forget the Monastery Siege. Its great to have around after a balance.
You listed a lot of really great options. Timely is kind of situational, though. Lots of the time you want to nuke the creatures; not have 3 creatures around.
Also just noticed that genesis could bring back gargadon.
Mana is rarely the issue. Another great green spell was just announced: Eladamri's Call. Which is basically exactly the card we needed to get gargadon.
Speaking of consistency, why are people not running more land sac outlets like Claws of Gix specifically, to combo off?
There really isnt a point in playing restore balance if you arent nuking every land in the process.
Greater Gargadon is the sac outlet of choice as far as I'm aware.
Right, but if you dont have gargadon the deck is just ass that doesnt accomplish anything? Claws are perfect for this list. You really dont even need more than 1 maybe 2 of them (or more if you run mox opal maybe). I see no reason to not play it considering its the only 'good' 5-8 option for saccing our own lands.
Not for this list, IMO.
I'd rather use non-land mana, and nuke every single land so they cant have 1 mana to bounce back. The difference between letting 1 land stay and 2 is great, IMO. Its the difference between them playing a second land and them playing their first land. Gives them a lot more room to bounce back.
Say I have drift in play. I cast Tidehollow Sculler and it resolves. It enters, trigger on stack; can I cycle a card, hit my Sculler with astral; and permanently delete this card (exile without it being linked to Sculler)?
Or does this not work?
If that does work I would basically get 2 cards for one out of my Sculler.
Also, would Fiend Hunter work the same way if I flicker it with its trigger on the stack?
Another question I had with Drift is, if a creature returns at the beginning of the next end step; can I use drift on that creature again for it to come back the NEXT turn at the beginning of the NEXT turn's end step? Just making sure.
BTW guys theres a few more cool interactions:
Fiend Hunter / Tidehollow Sculler
With both of these cards, you can play them; ETB ability on the stack, flicker; and permanently delete something to exile. This is basically because the cards arent linked anymore or dont 'remember'. Not only that, when they come back in; you can either do it again, OR just have the 'normal version' of the card (where if it dies something comes back).
I still feel like you are thinking about the 1 drops wrong. They arent that bad to draw late game at all TBH. You can just fill out your mana with them and give you more breathing room. Like if you 'need' 2 mana to leave up for cycling things, and you have 1 'extra' that you wouldnt use, perfect chance to be less cramped in terms of mana, next turn. Also not irrelevant is the flying on birds if you need to block a flyer, then tap the bird and use that mana to 1 mana cycle and drift your bird away.
Im still testing but I dont think I'll be cutting my 5 minimum 1 drop accel creatures any time soon. I also use a LOT of lands, too; and feel they are almost necessary. Im currently at 30 lands, 28 cycling effects, and 8 ETB creatures.
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Eternal Witness
2 Knight of Autumn
4 Coiling Oracle
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Street Wraith
4 Astral Drift
4 Cast Out
1 Wrenn and Six
3 Life from the Loam
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Secluded Steppe
4 Lonely Sandbar
4 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
4 Forgotten Cave
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
2 Knight of Autumn
4 Avalanche Riders
1 Soulherder
1 Drake Haven
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
1 Wrenn and Six
I dont see how ETB would prevent us from wanting 1 drops. We would just land it T2, and ramp T3. 1 Mana ramp just seems too good to pass up. Honestly, if anything it seems like we need this MORE because of our come into play tapped situation. We cant be slow and clunky all game or we'll get wrecked by anything remotely fast. Def wouldnt be thinking of the 1 drops as 'air' when they are helping take some weight off the manabase. We cant expect to come into play tapped land every turn and be behind all game every game and do well can we?
Also 8 Cycling lands only? My list has a LOT more than that. I would use 4 of every single cycle land in your decks colors, then just add more lands that come in untapped on top of that. Im currently at 29 lands.
Here is my rough draft:
(27 Cards with Cycling + 8 ETB trigger creatures)
1 Eternal Witness
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Soulherder
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Acidic Slime
4 Street Wraith
4 Astral Drift
2 Cast Out
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Wrenn and Six
3 Life from the Loam
1 Reap the Past (or some other draw spell like fact or fiction maybe for instant speed)
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Secluded Steppe
4 Lonely Sandbar
4 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Stomping Ground
4 Irrigated Farmland
1 Forest
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
2 Coiling Oracle
3 Knight of Autumn
1 Cast Out
1 Drake Haven
2 Dissenter's Deliverance
1 Wrenn and Six
1 Reap the Past
Ramp you into a T2 slide, then maybe you can stabilize from there.
As for things to add instead, definitely add Monastery Siege. Its perfect for after-balance situations, and doesnt fill up your hand necessarily. I personally would rather blast everything restore balance can, and hopefully they have 0 lands 0 creatures and maybe 1 or 2 but hopefully 0 cards in their hand as well. Then try to win as fast as possible from there.
Idk when I would want to have so many cards in my hand, especially if I draw ones I cant ditch easily.
I have not tried the electrodominance route, however. So maybe that route is better with all the card draw and extra opportunities to cast a 'free' vision.
Here is what I was messing around with for an idea of what Im talking about:
1 Wrenn and Six
4 Restore Balance
3 Selesnya Signet
4 Mox Opal
2 Talisman of Creativity
1 Azorius Signet
1 Claws of Gix
2 Talisman of Unity
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 As Foretold
4 Monastery Siege
4 Eladamri's Call
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Island
3 Spire of Industry
4 Glimmervoid
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Spirebluff Canal
Also dont forget the Monastery Siege. Its great to have around after a balance.
You listed a lot of really great options. Timely is kind of situational, though. Lots of the time you want to nuke the creatures; not have 3 creatures around.
Also just noticed that genesis could bring back gargadon.
The 2 4/4s for G card, though.. its great. You can set it up to restore balance then have 4/4s next turn for a fast clock.
Right, but if you dont have gargadon the deck is just ass that doesnt accomplish anything? Claws are perfect for this list. You really dont even need more than 1 maybe 2 of them (or more if you run mox opal maybe). I see no reason to not play it considering its the only 'good' 5-8 option for saccing our own lands.
Eladamri's Call this is a nice print for us <3
[card]
Crashing Footfalls
[/card]
Good lord.
There really isnt a point in playing restore balance if you arent nuking every land in the process.