in maindeck i'm only worry of 3x Wraths... prolly ee or smth else needed. dunno, this slot is have to be tested a little bit more. Wrath are ok for sure. but not that great if u have canonist onboard.
As for SB, MM and VenCliq is just awesome. 1x COP:RED is just for muddle. rest is untested.
Have anyone considered UW version without Time Sieve, but with 3 MD Canonist, paths and few wraths? i'm testing lots of post-rotation enviroment and find that EE without fetches is not that good as it was before and u need more reliable sweeper.
I'm also playing MeMages in SB, since after sb almost every deck sideout removal and Mmages stops extripates pretty good.
canonist + remand / repeel / counters sounds like a good plan to soft lock opp in first 4-5 turns.
I think you should move towards more black then red, since Haunting Echoes is far more better win-cond then Visions. As for additional fog, u can always use smth like Batwing Brume.
As for idea, u can also use Kederect Parasite (comboes well with Visions) and/or Swans to let them attack into it and get lot's of pain.
So to beat GW Overrun the plan is? Other than Wrath?
Is it worth devoting extra sb slots to this matchup? It's pretty popular, pretty easy for a 1625+ player to pick up and play to randomly beat you at a ptq/regionals. If anyone has any smart ideas I could use the advice - I've lost to such nonsense before
Can you give us round breakdowns? Nothing fancy just looking to see what your round matches were like. Did you see a lot of mirror matches? How many Bloodbraid decks? Control?
r1: 0-2 to some kind of junk-ramp deck, both games bad hands i think. made 1 mistake and he locked me via realm-reazer.
r2: 2-0 mono-w kithkens, she loses to my ZP and couple of Flitters
r3: 2-0 blighting, both games i have an early Flitter that blocks and kills gobling outlander. He never hits anathemancer and i win easily. he was splashing bloodbraided but i never saw him
r4: 2-0 Faeries, g1 i'm on play, t2 skuller takes blossom. t3 my own blossom, he is never in game, ZP seals the deal. g2 he has an goldfish hand via blossom and 2 scions + clique, but i have ZP and 2 terrors, he tries eot scion, that dies to terror. ZP won me the race.
r5: 2-0 Merfolk deck with Meddling mages. g1, i got 2 Meadowgrains online, he just can't attack me proper, since i'm just racing him like 2 times faster. we play kind of long game. since he don't have proper removal he just scoops to a pair of skullers. g2 he forget to reveal a merfolk for 2/1 draw guy and draw. thats a game loss on that REL.
some ID prolly. and i'm in top8
top8: 2-1 Blighting. g1 i mull to 6 and lose with so so hand, he have answers to all my threats and i didn't see any flitters. He got so much removal so i deside to side out almosts all anthems and skullers, siding in all creatures i have. g2 i win by t4 flitter. g3 he is never in game and i got t2 Knight.
top4: 0-2 to GW tokens. g1 i keep a very good hand and curve out to lots of threats and 2 skuller, as i point earlie i make a shame mistake by attacking with too much creatures and he kills me in 17 hits, hit-in-hit via overrun + procession + finks. g2 i got screwed on 2 lands with good hand with wrath.
Also, isn't the whole Marsh Flitter thing because one guy ran 2 of them in a deck that won a PTQ? I personally don't see why they are so good, but I haven't won any PTQs so what do I know...
Marsh Flitter is just so good at Red Matches at blocking and attaking. It surves both offence and defence role, it's one mana less then Cloudgoat and still activates Brisk. Combo well with ZP also. Survives VF and Infest. I just play 4 copies of him.
Just try to play around Flitter with ZP mana back-up. The possibility of sac. a goblin -> make him 3/3 complitely screw your opponent attack phase. You can just block smth with goblin, sac him to pump flitter and take zero damage while trading flitter with a opp guy.
Did you just get bad draws and g/w got good ones? It seems with ZP the matchup should've been in your favor.
g1 i made a crucial mistake, not counting on overrun under brisk and blocked wrong, died in 17 hits. while next turn it was lethal for him. should leave just one more blocker. (he was 4 lands and i skuller his hand twice, so i think it was safe...)
g2 i keep a good hand on turn with wrath but 2 lands. didn't see even 3rd land.
Got intensive tests for both persist and non-persist versions of this deck and the results are following:
a
1. Both versions are pretty solid in current meta.
2. ZP pushes non-persist version for far more favorable mu with almost everything exept 5cc
3. ZP wrecks mirror in g1.
4. Persist version do not need to run ZP main since it doesn't combo well with all this finks and redcups. You still have solid matches exept g1 mirror.
5. g2 and g3 (in mirror) persist and non-persist have very different plans for the game, non-persist is agro and persist is a control. without ZP non-persist version have less chances. with ZP the mach is like 51% for Persist version.
6. Non-persist version with ZP still needs spot removal to beat agro decks.
Overall both version are very solid.
If i would play ptq tomorrow i would play non-persist with 3x ZP main just course there is no good 5cc players in my area and meta is very agressive overall.
p.s. working on Ubw version atm.
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Muddle of the Mixture
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Repeal
3 Path to Exile
3 Wrath of God
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Mystic Gate
2 Academy Ruins
2 Seat of the Synod
5 Island
2 Plains
4 Meddling Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Circle of Protection: Red
4 Spell Snare
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Path to Exile
in maindeck i'm only worry of 3x Wraths... prolly ee or smth else needed. dunno, this slot is have to be tested a little bit more. Wrath are ok for sure. but not that great if u have canonist onboard.
As for SB, MM and VenCliq is just awesome. 1x COP:RED is just for muddle. rest is untested.
Right now i'm just playing 2 color UW. without any EE, but with 3x canonist, few wraths. Doing good so far. Sided Mmage is so good vs any hate.
I'm also playing MeMages in SB, since after sb almost every deck sideout removal and Mmages stops extripates pretty good.
canonist + remand / repeel / counters sounds like a good plan to soft lock opp in first 4-5 turns.
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Primal Command
3 Regal Force
1 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Mirror Entity
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Cloudthresher
1 Overrun
8 Forest
3 Mosswort Bridge
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Wooded Bastion
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Great Sable Stag
2 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Guttural Response
3 Path to Exile
As for idea, u can also use Kederect Parasite (comboes well with Visions) and/or Swans to let them attack into it and get lot's of pain.
Source: http://www.mymagic.ru/file_storage/m10_gallery
Look! The following art IS IN M10, so stop posting to say it might not be!
Lightning Bolt, Christopher Moeller
Alluring Siren, Chippy
Act of Treason, Eric Deschamps
Rootbound Crag, Matt Stewart
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4 Arcane Sanctum
4 Fetid Heath
4 Windbrisk Heights
3 Reflecting Pool
3 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Mutavault
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Murderous Redcap
4 Tidehollow Skuller
2 Cloudgoat Ranger
2 Path to Exile
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Wrath of God
4 Bitterblossom
4 Glorious Anthem
3 Ajani Goldmane
2 Wrath of God
4 Toughtsieze
1 Celestial Purge
2 Runed Halo
1 Pithing Needle
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Path to Exile
1 Coudgoat Ranger
i'm testing Stillmoon and Pollen Lulaby
r1: 0-2 to some kind of junk-ramp deck, both games bad hands i think. made 1 mistake and he locked me via realm-reazer.
r2: 2-0 mono-w kithkens, she loses to my ZP and couple of Flitters
r3: 2-0 blighting, both games i have an early Flitter that blocks and kills gobling outlander. He never hits anathemancer and i win easily. he was splashing bloodbraided but i never saw him
r4: 2-0 Faeries, g1 i'm on play, t2 skuller takes blossom. t3 my own blossom, he is never in game, ZP seals the deal. g2 he has an goldfish hand via blossom and 2 scions + clique, but i have ZP and 2 terrors, he tries eot scion, that dies to terror. ZP won me the race.
r5: 2-0 Merfolk deck with Meddling mages. g1, i got 2 Meadowgrains online, he just can't attack me proper, since i'm just racing him like 2 times faster. we play kind of long game. since he don't have proper removal he just scoops to a pair of skullers. g2 he forget to reveal a merfolk for 2/1 draw guy and draw. thats a game loss on that REL.
some ID prolly. and i'm in top8
top8: 2-1 Blighting. g1 i mull to 6 and lose with so so hand, he have answers to all my threats and i didn't see any flitters. He got so much removal so i deside to side out almosts all anthems and skullers, siding in all creatures i have. g2 i win by t4 flitter. g3 he is never in game and i got t2 Knight.
top4: 0-2 to GW tokens. g1 i keep a very good hand and curve out to lots of threats and 2 skuller, as i point earlie i make a shame mistake by attacking with too much creatures and he kills me in 17 hits, hit-in-hit via overrun + procession + finks. g2 i got screwed on 2 lands with good hand with wrath.
Marsh Flitter is just so good at Red Matches at blocking and attaking. It surves both offence and defence role, it's one mana less then Cloudgoat and still activates Brisk. Combo well with ZP also. Survives VF and Infest. I just play 4 copies of him.
Just try to play around Flitter with ZP mana back-up. The possibility of sac. a goblin -> make him 3/3 complitely screw your opponent attack phase. You can just block smth with goblin, sac him to pump flitter and take zero damage while trading flitter with a opp guy.
g1 i made a crucial mistake, not counting on overrun under brisk and blocked wrong, died in 17 hits. while next turn it was lethal for him. should leave just one more blocker. (he was 4 lands and i skuller his hand twice, so i think it was safe...)
g2 i keep a good hand on turn with wrath but 2 lands. didn't see even 3rd land.
4 Fetid Heath
4 Arcane Sanctum
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Windbrisk Heights
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Mutavault
4 Marsh Flitter
3 Cloudgoat Ranger
3 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Path to Exile
2 Terror
4 Glorious Anthem
3 Ajani Goldmane
4 Bitterblossom
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Path to Exile
2 Identity Crisis
2 Puppeteer Clique
3 Wrath of God
3 Thoughtseize
3 Wispmare
a
1. Both versions are pretty solid in current meta.
2. ZP pushes non-persist version for far more favorable mu with almost everything exept 5cc
3. ZP wrecks mirror in g1.
4. Persist version do not need to run ZP main since it doesn't combo well with all this finks and redcups. You still have solid matches exept g1 mirror.
5. g2 and g3 (in mirror) persist and non-persist have very different plans for the game, non-persist is agro and persist is a control. without ZP non-persist version have less chances. with ZP the mach is like 51% for Persist version.
6. Non-persist version with ZP still needs spot removal to beat agro decks.
Overall both version are very solid.
If i would play ptq tomorrow i would play non-persist with 3x ZP main just course there is no good 5cc players in my area and meta is very agressive overall.