I just want to confirm that while I need to target at least 1 Flagbearer (Standard Bearer) when I cast a single target spell (if possible), Grip of Chaos can randomly select any legal target since it is choosing the target, not me.
Oracle text for flagbearers are:
"While an opponent is choosing targets as part of casting a spell they control or activating an ability they control, that player must choose at least one Flagbearer on the battlefield if able."
If you change the target of a spell to one that has an increased cost to target (Elderwood Scion), do you have to pay the increased cost? If Grip of Chaos changes the target of a spell my opponent controls to my Elderwood Scion, does the controller of the spell have to pay the 2 or no since the spell has already been paid?
Fiend Hunter says "When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield. . ." This is a triggered ability. It uses the word "When" and when its condition happens, the effect goes on the stack. As stated above, when a player leaves the game, nothing triggers. This is because effects are "controlled" by the player whose cards put it there. Since they are no longer in the game, they can't have triggers happen. Short story, the creature exiled by Fiend Hunter does not come back.
Banisher Priest is the same idea, but it does not have a trigger ability upon leaving the battlefield. It only has one trigger ability that states both effects. Thus, when the player controlling Banisher Priest leaves, the creature exiled by it comes back.
All right, so when forced to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the player cannot be forced to activate mana abilities to pay it or be forced to reveal information in a "hidden zone." Anything else (such as discard, paying life, sacrificing a permanent,etc.) must be done (if possible) as long as the spell has legal target(s) (if necessary.)
Is there anything else besides activating mana abilities or revealing hidden information that cannot be forced?
For spells with an additional cost of the form "A or B" (e.g., Silvergill Adept, Lightning Axe), note that under C.R. 601.2f, "[t]he total cost of a spell is the mana cost or alternative cost ... plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus cost reductions". Note that the choice to pay A or B is not done when determining the spell's total cost. Thus, in normal cases, Silvergill Adept's total cost is 1U and "reveal a Merfolk card from your hand or pay 3". (A similar situation also applies to the activation cost found in Crystal Shard's ability (C.R. 602.2b, 601.2f); here, the ability's total cost is normally "3, T or U, T".)
So, you are saying that additional costs that are mana are included in the total cost, and thus, is all free? That doesn't seem to fit the oracle rule of Wild Evocation:
"If casting the revealed card involves paying a mandatory additional cost (such as the one Fling has), the player casting that card must pay that cost if able. If they can’t, the card remains uncast in their hand. If the mandatory additional cost includes a mana payment, the situation is more complex. If the player has enough mana in their mana pool to pay the cost, that player must do so. If the player can’t possibly pay the cost, the card remains uncast in their hand. However, if the player has the means to produce enough mana to pay the cost, then they have a choice: The player may cast the card, produce mana, and pay the cost. Or the player may choose to activate no mana abilities, thus making the card impossible to cast because the additional mana can’t be paid.
An exception is if the spell "has a mandatory cost that includes actions involving cards with a stated quality in a hidden zone" (which is the case for Disaster Radius, but not Lightning Axe), in which case the player need not cast that spell even if such a card is "present in that zone" (C.R. 400.2, 118.8c).
What about if I have Telepathy in play and the fact they have have a creature in hand is no longer hidden?
2) I can't find a definitive answer to whether you can choose the 5 in lightning axe or the Sacrifice an enchantment in Final Payment and then simply not have the resources available despite having access to alternative resources that would allow you to cast the spell.
I pretty sure since the cards are written as "as an additional cost to this spell, [X] or [Y]," you must perform either action if possible. If the effect was somehow written as a modal ("as an addition cost to the spell choose one of the following: -X -Y"), then they could choose the modal choice for mana and not pay it. I have no idea where this is in the CR though.
(Thus, for example, if the spell is Hatred and the player in question has 5 life or more, that player must pay 5 life, assuming that a creature can be targeted with that spell [C.R. 601.2c, 108.1, 119.4]."
For the example of Hatred, they should have the option to choose anywhere from 0 to their current life total for X, unless I am missing something.
I understand that all LTB and ETB triggers will go on the stack after the complete resolution of Thieves' Auction with all of the Active Player's trigger going first in the order of their choosing then all other players in clockwise order. That is to say, the triggers don't necessarily stack in the order they happen (if I am correct.)
My question is that Thieves' Auction cards enter the battlefield as they are chosen (but triggers are delayed) instead of entering all at once. This means that if only cards chosen afterConfusion in the Ranks are chosen will cause it to trigger.
Secondary question that just came up: Changing control doesn't cause other Confusion in the Ranks triggers to clear unless the awaiting triggers controller gains control of the permanent it is targeting (since Confusion in the Ranks says target permanent you don't control) Do such illegal target triggers clear as soon as a player gains control of a permanent they targeting or only when the effect goes to resolve? (ie I have an awaiting trigger to resolve, but I gain control of the permanent, but another player gains control of it before my trigger resolves.)
Edit: 3rd Question. If Grip of Chaos is also put into play, all of the targets will all be randomized at the same time after being selected, correct? That is, they don't get randomly selected one at a time since all triggers from Thieves' Auction go on at the same time, thus all triggers from Grip of Chaos go on at the same time.
My question is that Wild Evocation says the player must pay any additional costs (such as Fling) with the exception of mana costs as long as it isn't in their pool. They have the option to pay it if they are able to produce it.
1.) Am I safe to assume the must pay any additional costs except mana (such as life)? I know you can't pay life you don't have, but you can pay exactly your life total.
2.) What about Lightning Axe? It has both a discard or mana additional cost.
There is a previous thread that asked this, but it wasn't answered as explicitly as I would like.
I have 2 Harness the Storms on the battlefield, 1 Lightning Bolt in hand, and 1 Lightning Bolt in the graveyard. If I cast the Lightning Bolt in hand, both Harness the Storm trigger and target the one in my graveyard. If I cast the graveyard Lightning Bolt from the top trigger, can I still cast it again with the second trigger or is it a new object since it changed zones?
Just to clarify, Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God's last ability only checks for legendary creatures and any planeswalkers (ie not just legendary planeswalkers), correct?
Oracle text for flagbearers are:
"While an opponent is choosing targets as part of casting a spell they control or activating an ability they control, that player must choose at least one Flagbearer on the battlefield if able."
Fiend Hunter says "When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield. . ." This is a triggered ability. It uses the word "When" and when its condition happens, the effect goes on the stack. As stated above, when a player leaves the game, nothing triggers. This is because effects are "controlled" by the player whose cards put it there. Since they are no longer in the game, they can't have triggers happen. Short story, the creature exiled by Fiend Hunter does not come back.
Banisher Priest is the same idea, but it does not have a trigger ability upon leaving the battlefield. It only has one trigger ability that states both effects. Thus, when the player controlling Banisher Priest leaves, the creature exiled by it comes back.
Is there anything else besides activating mana abilities or revealing hidden information that cannot be forced?
So, you are saying that additional costs that are mana are included in the total cost, and thus, is all free? That doesn't seem to fit the oracle rule of Wild Evocation:
"If casting the revealed card involves paying a mandatory additional cost (such as the one Fling has), the player casting that card must pay that cost if able. If they can’t, the card remains uncast in their hand. If the mandatory additional cost includes a mana payment, the situation is more complex. If the player has enough mana in their mana pool to pay the cost, that player must do so. If the player can’t possibly pay the cost, the card remains uncast in their hand. However, if the player has the means to produce enough mana to pay the cost, then they have a choice: The player may cast the card, produce mana, and pay the cost. Or the player may choose to activate no mana abilities, thus making the card impossible to cast because the additional mana can’t be paid.
Also in regards to:
What about if I have Telepathy in play and the fact they have have a creature in hand is no longer hidden?
Side note: Confusion in the Ranks triggers on itself. Therefore, if it is chosen last, it will still trigger but just for itself.
I pretty sure since the cards are written as "as an additional cost to this spell, [X] or [Y]," you must perform either action if possible. If the effect was somehow written as a modal ("as an addition cost to the spell choose one of the following: -X -Y"), then they could choose the modal choice for mana and not pay it. I have no idea where this is in the CR though.
For the example of Hatred, they should have the option to choose anywhere from 0 to their current life total for X, unless I am missing something.
Confusion in the Ranks
I understand that all LTB and ETB triggers will go on the stack after the complete resolution of Thieves' Auction with all of the Active Player's trigger going first in the order of their choosing then all other players in clockwise order. That is to say, the triggers don't necessarily stack in the order they happen (if I am correct.)
My question is that Thieves' Auction cards enter the battlefield as they are chosen (but triggers are delayed) instead of entering all at once. This means that if only cards chosen after Confusion in the Ranks are chosen will cause it to trigger.
Secondary question that just came up: Changing control doesn't cause other Confusion in the Ranks triggers to clear unless the awaiting triggers controller gains control of the permanent it is targeting (since Confusion in the Ranks says target permanent you don't control) Do such illegal target triggers clear as soon as a player gains control of a permanent they targeting or only when the effect goes to resolve? (ie I have an awaiting trigger to resolve, but I gain control of the permanent, but another player gains control of it before my trigger resolves.)
Edit: 3rd Question. If Grip of Chaos is also put into play, all of the targets will all be randomized at the same time after being selected, correct? That is, they don't get randomly selected one at a time since all triggers from Thieves' Auction go on at the same time, thus all triggers from Grip of Chaos go on at the same time.
(Yes, I am being "that guy" with this deck.)
My question is that Wild Evocation says the player must pay any additional costs (such as Fling) with the exception of mana costs as long as it isn't in their pool. They have the option to pay it if they are able to produce it.
1.) Am I safe to assume the must pay any additional costs except mana (such as life)? I know you can't pay life you don't have, but you can pay exactly your life total.
2.) What about Lightning Axe? It has both a discard or mana additional cost.
I have 2 Harness the Storms on the battlefield, 1 Lightning Bolt in hand, and 1 Lightning Bolt in the graveyard. If I cast the Lightning Bolt in hand, both Harness the Storm trigger and target the one in my graveyard. If I cast the graveyard Lightning Bolt from the top trigger, can I still cast it again with the second trigger or is it a new object since it changed zones?
Thanks.
Also for reference Helm of the Host can create non-lengendary Gideon Jura tokens if it is equipped to him as a creature.