So I played a couple of games last night and got to test out Vivien, Champion of the Wilds. In the second game I activated her five times and saw one creature, so now I'm trying to work out if I just got severely unlucky or if my creature count is too low to use her minus ability with any degree of reliability.
I decided to start keeping track of my decks in a Google spreadsheet so I've actually got a record of the decks I'm thinking of doing as well as the ones I've built, it's definitely helped clarify some of my thoughts.
Oh wait is that that five player thing that came out? I remember now. Yeah, if I feel the need for another big dude in here I'll definitely consider it, cause he's gonna get bloody huge.
All solid calls, I must have either not noticed Ulvenwald Hydra or misread it as only getting basics. That said, Rampaging Brontodon doesn't seem to be a card, and Traverse the Outlands won't go in unless a foil version appears on the scene at some point.
Because this is the first EDH deck I ever built (in 2010), it's the one I'm pimping out and to replace the commander after all this time just didn't feel right. I acknowledged my simultaneous desire to play better Magic by promising to swap if I opened a foil Multani at the Dominaria prerelease. I didn't even open a normal one in five events plus prizes, so that solved that as far as I'm concerned.
So yeah, this is my Molimo deck, the one that kickstarted my love of this format. It's full of pet cards like the Fog variants and the morph package, weird meta calls like Tranquil Path because my wife runs a Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck with roughly a billion Arrest variants and Bind, because nobody expects the mono-green player to say 'in response'.
The general gameplan is I ramp a bit, play some stuff out that's fairly innocuous, let everyone else fight for a bit then drop a giant hasty Molimo followed by Overwhelming Stampede and kill the table. If I'm really lucky, I also get to Genesis Wave for 20 at some point, which even if I lose makes me happy. Why yes I am a massive Timmy, how did you know?
Obviously the goal is still to make a pretty decent deck, I'm just less fussed about 100% efficiency in this one y'know? Also as I said I'm pimping this one, so anything pre-Urza's or only available in a precon is right out. I'm hoping Song of the Dryads makes it into foil some day, and the Killer Bees will be Unyaro Bees when I get around to it. Until then, it's the German version because Killerbienen is fun to say.
This deck looks painfully slow. There's no ramp or even card draw to ensure land-drops. It's massively full of anti-synergy. It's trying to play big durdly 6 drops and a million wraths with no recursion. I feel like most pre-cons would dismantle this deck with minimal difficulty.
I find it impossible to leave feedback and meaningful discussion to this deck. It just...exists.
This made me laugh, so thankyou!
I first came up with the idea for the deck about seven years ago, and built it about five years ago, which is why there's such a preponderance of Kamigawa in there. Since then I've had a slightly erratic involvement in MTG and haven't necessarily picked up new cards every set/managed to get my hands on the new precons for the year.
Many of the card choices you guys have presented do make sense, so I'm not going to answer each one individually, but I am going to question the attitude of 'What does it do? It's going in a million directions? Its slow and unfocused'
It plays guys at every point on the curve (pretty much) and they're all white legends. Yes, there's a bunch of wraths. No, I don't have to windmill slam a wrath as soon as I draw it. How can I have a more defined strategy than that when I can't depend on any given commander being in the command zone? And yes, it does play differently depending who's in the zone. For example, if I got Thalia I'm probably looking to go wide whereas Akroma is aiming for the commander damage kill. People also react to the deck differently depending on who I put down. Nobody is that scared by Cho-Manno, but Elesh Norn is a different matter entirely, even though they know it's the exact same deck in both games.
I wouldn't say any given commander is better than any other, especially now I jettisoned the Myojin, mainly because of the power differential I mentioned. The worse a commander is, the more I can fly under the radar early game seems to be the general way it plays out.
Reading your thread reminded me of the other reason I decided against Serras Cathedral: mono-white doesn't get much access to trample, so my bands would be chump blockable more often than not.
I've found in my win-cons deck it's easy to get into the mindset of 'well, the coin flips aren't guaranteed, I should put more of them in to up the average chance of them happening' and then slightly overdo it. Personally I'd cut a couple of the one-shot coin flips like Bottle of Suleiman. I've also found Fiery Gambit to be depressingly underwhelming, although I note you've got some copying shenanigans so it might come out better for you.
Yeah, if I was gonna do it starting today it'd probably have ended up as an Arvad the Cursed deck.
Played some games tonight, got in for 31 with my Lathliss deck then died on the crackback to exactly lethal commander damage from Akiri. I'd miscounted my mana for Lathliss pumps and left him on 7.
Chance Encounter is actually fairly easy if I can get the Frenetic Efreet to stick, since that gives me infinite coinflips. There's a reason I'm using the coinflip cards as the first buffer zone for cuts. Cutting Mortal Combat is probably sensible, would mean I could cut a few of the naffer creatures and get a few more tutors in the deck, such as Diabolic Revelation and Increasing Ambition. I'd also like to add Evolution Sage as it seems like a bit of a no-brainer.
Something that feels like a no-brainer but might not be is Doubling Season. I've got a spare and genuinely can't see any downsides to running it in this, but can't shake the feeling there's something I'm missing. Anyone got any thoughts?
I got given a Parhelion II today, so that replaced the Myojin.
@ISB: I genuinely thought Nykthos was already in here. I'm having a lot of these moments in the wake of uploading lists it turns out. I think I decided against the Mox on the basis it doesn't help get the first creature down, although I've not tested it. For some reason I've never liked the idea of Djeru in here but I can't articulate why, so clearly I was having an off day when he came out and never re-examined my opinion. I meant to swap Oathkeeper for Blackblade today and forgot. Lancers are a solid call, Eldritch Moon kinda coincided with me disengaging a bit so I probably never gave them a full consideration.
@Weebo: I think there were more Samurai in here initially that have slowly been culled. What you see as the deck pulling in two directions is more because I want the big cool stuff, but also need things to do turns 1-6 within the limitations of the theme. You're right though that some of the newer keyword soup guys can go in in place of the remaining Samurai.
@tstorm: Considered, but in the end not having to remember/Google what banding did every time I played it won out.
Well, that's certainly given me a lot to think about. The Samurai cut is definitely happening, as is the Oathkeeper/Blackblade swap. I'll have to rummage through the collection, see what's viable without too much expenditure.
Hi! I'm Dragonlover. I posted here years ago but my account got eaten by the Twitch merge and nothing of value was lost.
I've been playing Magic since 2000, took a break from Kamigawa to M11 and have pretty much exclusively played EDH since my return. I've not slung much cardboard the last couple of years due to work, but my schedule just changed so I can finally get down to my local on their Commander night. I'm also taking the time to actually put decklists up, as where I've not paid attention to Magic beyond selling it to people the last few years there's plenty of cards I've forgotten about/didn't notice came out.
As you may have gathered from the title, I'm not sure what this deck is doing any more. The general idea when I built it was to force combats to happen as at the time I played with several people who would happily bunker down and make games take forever. Obviously I don't want the combats to come my way, hence the pillowfort stuff and the extra political tools like the symmetrical draw artifacts.
Out of all the decks I've put up the last few days, this needs the most work I think. Like, there's still remnants of the precon like Flametongue Kavu which I'm not sure I've ever used to any great effect. I'm hopefully playing tonight so I'll take it for a spin or two and try and play critically paying attention to what does and doesn't work. It's been a while since it saw the table.
Dragonlover
I decided to start keeping track of my decks in a Google spreadsheet so I've actually got a record of the decks I'm thinking of doing as well as the ones I've built, it's definitely helped clarify some of my thoughts.
Dragonlover
Dragonlover
Dragonlover
Dragonlover
1 Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
Creatures:
1 Serpentine Basilisk
1 Vorapede
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Moldgraf Monstrosity
1 Killer Bees
1 Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 Saber Ants
1 Arachnus Spinner
1 Duplicant
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Dungrove Elder
1 Nantuko Vigilante
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wood Elves
1 Brawn
1 Bellowing Tanglewurm
1 Jugan, the Rising Star
1 Elven Riders
1 Acidic Slime
1 Broodhatch Nantuko
1 Spore Frog
1 Den Protector
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Terastodon
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Tranquil Path
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Desert Twister
1 Genesis Wave
1 Rishkar's Expertise
1 Overrun
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Harmonize
1 Journey of Discovery
1 Overwhelming Stampede
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Rampant Growth
1 Hour of Promise
Instants:
1 Beast Within
1 Tangle
1 Crop Rotation
1 Strength of the Tajuru
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Bind
1 Strength of Cedars
1 Krosan Grip
1 Moment's Peace
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1 Triumph of Ferocity
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Bear Umbra
1 Arachnus Web
1 Asceticism
1 Lignify
Arifacts:
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Caged Sun
1 Strata Scythe
1 Brittle Effigy
Planeswalkers:
1 Vivien, Champion of the Wilds
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands:
1 Petrified Field
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Throne of the High City
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Gaea's Cradle
25 Forest
Let's get the answer to the obvious question out of the way first shall we?
Molimo? Why not run Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar?
Because this is the first EDH deck I ever built (in 2010), it's the one I'm pimping out and to replace the commander after all this time just didn't feel right. I acknowledged my simultaneous desire to play better Magic by promising to swap if I opened a foil Multani at the Dominaria prerelease. I didn't even open a normal one in five events plus prizes, so that solved that as far as I'm concerned.
So yeah, this is my Molimo deck, the one that kickstarted my love of this format. It's full of pet cards like the Fog variants and the morph package, weird meta calls like Tranquil Path because my wife runs a Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck with roughly a billion Arrest variants and Bind, because nobody expects the mono-green player to say 'in response'.
The general gameplan is I ramp a bit, play some stuff out that's fairly innocuous, let everyone else fight for a bit then drop a giant hasty Molimo followed by Overwhelming Stampede and kill the table. If I'm really lucky, I also get to Genesis Wave for 20 at some point, which even if I lose makes me happy. Why yes I am a massive Timmy, how did you know?
Obviously the goal is still to make a pretty decent deck, I'm just less fussed about 100% efficiency in this one y'know? Also as I said I'm pimping this one, so anything pre-Urza's or only available in a precon is right out. I'm hoping Song of the Dryads makes it into foil some day, and the Killer Bees will be Unyaro Bees when I get around to it. Until then, it's the German version because Killerbienen is fun to say.
Dragonlover
21/05/19
Out: Primeval Titan
In: Hour of Promise
I'm just gonna put materpillars post from the Random Deck thread in here so I can find it more easily in the future when I'm making adjustments.
Dragonlover
This made me laugh, so thankyou!
I first came up with the idea for the deck about seven years ago, and built it about five years ago, which is why there's such a preponderance of Kamigawa in there. Since then I've had a slightly erratic involvement in MTG and haven't necessarily picked up new cards every set/managed to get my hands on the new precons for the year.
Many of the card choices you guys have presented do make sense, so I'm not going to answer each one individually, but I am going to question the attitude of 'What does it do? It's going in a million directions? Its slow and unfocused'
It plays guys at every point on the curve (pretty much) and they're all white legends. Yes, there's a bunch of wraths. No, I don't have to windmill slam a wrath as soon as I draw it. How can I have a more defined strategy than that when I can't depend on any given commander being in the command zone? And yes, it does play differently depending who's in the zone. For example, if I got Thalia I'm probably looking to go wide whereas Akroma is aiming for the commander damage kill. People also react to the deck differently depending on who I put down. Nobody is that scared by Cho-Manno, but Elesh Norn is a different matter entirely, even though they know it's the exact same deck in both games.
I wouldn't say any given commander is better than any other, especially now I jettisoned the Myojin, mainly because of the power differential I mentioned. The worse a commander is, the more I can fly under the radar early game seems to be the general way it plays out.
Dragonlover
Dragonlover
Dragonlover
Yeah, if I was gonna do it starting today it'd probably have ended up as an Arvad the Cursed deck.
Played some games tonight, got in for 31 with my Lathliss deck then died on the crackback to exactly lethal commander damage from Akiri. I'd miscounted my mana for Lathliss pumps and left him on 7.
Dragonlover
Something that feels like a no-brainer but might not be is Doubling Season. I've got a spare and genuinely can't see any downsides to running it in this, but can't shake the feeling there's something I'm missing. Anyone got any thoughts?
Dragonlover
@ISB: I genuinely thought Nykthos was already in here. I'm having a lot of these moments in the wake of uploading lists it turns out. I think I decided against the Mox on the basis it doesn't help get the first creature down, although I've not tested it. For some reason I've never liked the idea of Djeru in here but I can't articulate why, so clearly I was having an off day when he came out and never re-examined my opinion. I meant to swap Oathkeeper for Blackblade today and forgot. Lancers are a solid call, Eldritch Moon kinda coincided with me disengaging a bit so I probably never gave them a full consideration.
@Weebo: I think there were more Samurai in here initially that have slowly been culled. What you see as the deck pulling in two directions is more because I want the big cool stuff, but also need things to do turns 1-6 within the limitations of the theme. You're right though that some of the newer keyword soup guys can go in in place of the remaining Samurai.
@tstorm: Considered, but in the end not having to remember/Google what banding did every time I played it won out.
Well, that's certainly given me a lot to think about. The Samurai cut is definitely happening, as is the Oathkeeper/Blackblade swap. I'll have to rummage through the collection, see what's viable without too much expenditure.
Dragonlover
I've been playing Magic since 2000, took a break from Kamigawa to M11 and have pretty much exclusively played EDH since my return. I've not slung much cardboard the last couple of years due to work, but my schedule just changed so I can finally get down to my local on their Commander night. I'm also taking the time to actually put decklists up, as where I've not paid attention to Magic beyond selling it to people the last few years there's plenty of cards I've forgotten about/didn't notice came out.
Dragonlover
1 Ruhan of the Fomori
Creatures:
1 Masako the Humorless
1 Balefire Liege
1 Sun Titan
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Nobilis of War
1 Plumeveil
1 Windborn Muse
1 Fogbank
1 Mesa Enchantress
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Spurnmage Advocate
1 Gomazoa
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Guard Gomazoa
1 Purity
1 Fumiko the Lowblood
1 Avatar of Slaughter
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Basandra, Battle Seraph
1 Fortune Thief
1 Wall of Denial
Enchantments:
1 War's Toll
1 Crescendo of War
1 Vow of Lightning
1 Wild Research
1 Vow of Duty
1 Propaganda
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Soul Snare
1 Glory of Warfare
1 Teferi's Moat
1 Vow of Flight
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Rage Reflection
1 Serra's Blessing
1 True Conviction
1 Powerstone Minefield
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Order//Chaos
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Brainstorm
1 Odds//Ends
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Pollen Lullaby
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Oblation
1 Turn the Tables
1 Chaos Warp
1 Scattering Stroke
Artifacts:
1 Dolmen Gate
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Howling Mine
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Sol Ring
1 Crawlspace
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Norn's Annex
1 Font of Mythos
Sorceries:
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Insurrection
1 Theft of Dreams
1 Open the Vaults
1 Austere Command
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Command Tower
1 Boros Garrison
12 Island
7 Plains
8 Mountain
As you may have gathered from the title, I'm not sure what this deck is doing any more. The general idea when I built it was to force combats to happen as at the time I played with several people who would happily bunker down and make games take forever. Obviously I don't want the combats to come my way, hence the pillowfort stuff and the extra political tools like the symmetrical draw artifacts.
Out of all the decks I've put up the last few days, this needs the most work I think. Like, there's still remnants of the precon like Flametongue Kavu which I'm not sure I've ever used to any great effect. I'm hopefully playing tonight so I'll take it for a spin or two and try and play critically paying attention to what does and doesn't work. It's been a while since it saw the table.
Dragonlover